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posted by janrinok on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:42PM   Printer-friendly
from the not-looking-good dept.

Submitted via IRC for AnonymousCoward

Cryptocurrency's bad day continues as the SEC blocks Telegram's $1.7 billion planned token sale – TechCrunch

Cryptocurrency’s bad news day continues to get worse as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has said it has filed an emergency action and received a restraining order for the $1.7 billion planned token offering of Telegram’s blockchain.

The move from the SEC follows the continued dissolution of the corporate alliance that was supporting Facebook’s planned Libra cryptocurrency.

Telegram’s ambitious founder Pavel Durov was hoping to launch the Telegram Open Network as a payment option that would exist apart from the global regulatory system in much the same way that Libra would have done, according to initial TechCrunch reporting.

While the Telegram offering had been in the works since January 2018, it had run into problems by the middle of last year and the future of the protocol was already in jeopardy.

[...] "Our emergency action today is intended to prevent Telegram from flooding the U.S. markets with digital tokens that we allege were unlawfully sold," said Stephanie Avakian, Co-Director of the SEC's Division of Enforcement, in a statement. "We allege that the defendants have failed to provide investors with information regarding Grams and Telegram's business operations, financial condition, risk factors, and management that the securities laws require."


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:27PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:27PM (#907923)

    Only 100 years ago you could legally walk down the street with a backpack full of dynamite, a machine gun in one hand, and a pound of cyanide in the other. Today, you can't even buy/sell random corporate shitcoins.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:37PM (12 children)

      by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:37PM (#907926) Journal

      A man with gun, explosives in his backpack and handful of poison is stoppable. Random digital coins are not.

      --
      Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:40PM (11 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:40PM (#907943)

        100 years ago, the dynamite, poison, and machine gun could only do a limited amount of damage in a small area, and most people could see the bastard coming and keep an eye on him.

        1.7 billion USD in digital fraud has much more destructive potential over a much wider area and the victims mostly won't see it coming.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:57PM (9 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:57PM (#907947)

          Compare $1.7 billion in digital fraud to $2.7 billion in fraud every day until at least next April:
          https://thedailycoin.org/2019/10/14/fed-qe-not-qe-starts-at-80-billion-monthly-plus-tomo-the-system-is-burning-down/ [thedailycoin.org]

          $560 billion in fraud is a bit more important, but you are so concerned about 0.3% of that.

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:54PM (5 children)

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:54PM (#908016)

            Well, the 80B USD is spread fairly evenly across ~350 million suckers, and it's not as likely to be total-loss fraud as something like an ICO is - at least historically. 80B/month is 960B/yr, about the same as we spend on Social Security. Do you think somebody is funneling the Social Security money off to Swiss bank accounts and replacing it with T-bills?

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:31PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:31PM (#908032)

              No, they are creating money from nowhere and using it to buy bonds and mortgage backed securities from TBTF banks that don't want them anymore.

              • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:02AM (3 children)

                by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:02AM (#908095)

                TBills are no more creating money from nowhere than running a charge on your Master Card - the bill comes due soon enough.

                --
                🌻🌻 [google.com]
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:20AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:20AM (#908101)

                  The Federal Reserve is buying treasury bonds (not bills afaik, but maybe I am wrong and this is different from past "QE"s) from banks who bought them from the treasury (+ some MBS). The money to buy these didn't exist until the fed conjured it from thin air to do so.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:49AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:49AM (#908109)

                  You don't understand the USA financial system, or you are being disingenuous.

                  The money from the The Federal Reserve is just simply conjured into existence. Historically they took a piece of paper, added some ink and waved a magic wand over it and it was suddenly worth $1/2/5/10/100/1,000/10,000.
                  These days they do it on a computer and you don't even get the paper.

                  In order to get that money into circulation, the Government (Treasury Dept) sells them T-Bills. So to put a billion in dollar bills into the economy, you suddenly owe some private bankers that billion dollars, plus interest. But where did the private bankers get the billion? - Magic.

                  The really insidious part is that they have convinced you all that all the money conjured into existence should be owned by a private company, rather than society.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:57AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:57AM (#908112)

                    And now you know why there is a fake impeachment story dominating the deep state run news networks.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:48PM (2 children)

            by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:48PM (#908040) Homepage
            You do realise that's a classic example of whattaboutism?

            A: Jay-Z is bad
            B: He's not as bad as the now-debunked and known to be unhealthy dietary advice we've been fed for the last 60 years.

            They're not even comparing like to like. I'm not particularly a subscriber to MMT, but you really need to learn the difference between sovereign debt (looks unpleasant, causes some people to get in a flap) and private debt (here actually be dragons that actually breathe fire). Start here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqs7-zw9kiAKoIEn5WU8vqLF95ubzJQt9
            --
            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
            • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:14AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:14AM (#908072)

              You don't seem to know the difference between counterfeiting, and creating money from nowhere to give to your associates. There is none.

              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 18 2019, @10:29AM

                by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday October 18 2019, @10:29AM (#908754) Homepage
                You seem to not understand the difference between a sovereign entity and a regular joe. Now go watch the vids I pointed you towards, and do some learning.
                --
                Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 4, Touché) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:46PM

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:46PM (#907960) Journal

          Really, only the biggest banks, that pay tribute, should be allowed to commit this kind of fraud. Taxpayers will fund it with very little complaint.

          This is just more quid pro quo. Somebody wants their cut.

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:53PM

    by Bot (3902) on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:53PM (#907964) Journal

    Toxic bonds are passed on to inexperienced (count me in) people. I recall one bunch of shares sold as solid, two months later the company makes a secondary offering to clean up debt. I also recall insisting at the phone because news of problems in a company surfaced, bank insists they are good, i sell them say at 98 and they get to 30 in a couple days.

    --
    Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:28PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:28PM (#907974)

    libra and this ICO show how insulated and out of touch these suits are. you think the banksters and their puppets in government are going to sit by while you work to put them out of business? quit trying to work within the system. act like a free person with some guts and use technology to provide privacy and security and do it off the books. stop registering your initiatives with the leeches in government. use stuff like monero to collect the funds. make it work for the people who buy it too. don't "screw them like a shit weasel" (the latest hit single from The Reptillians Are Huur". Make the controllers obsolete by starving them of intel and funds.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:05PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:05PM (#907987)

      Pavel is probably planning his next move on this already.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:32PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:32PM (#907993)

    According to the SEC complaint Telgram failed to register their offers and sales of the tokens, which the SEC considers to be securities.

    (A) the terms “security” and “securities” shall include only such securities as are generally known as corporate securities, but shall not include any note or other evidence of indebtedness issued to evidence an obligation to repay moneys lent to a person by one or more banks, trust companies, or banking firms, or any certificate of interest or participation in any such note or evidence of indebtedness.

    Maybe these coins are an expectation that you own a part of something other than the coin itself?
    If so, then it could make sense that the SEC would want to make sure that the expectation is secure.

    If not, then how is this different from a case of selling a product where the value is in the eye of the beholder?
    If you buy worthless artwork for a crazy price as an investment does the SEC care?

    Regulating this stuff may be the right thing to do, but there ought to be a law first.
    What is the law in question?

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:52PM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:52PM (#908042) Homepage
      > What is the law in question?

      An ass?
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
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