Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
At first, teachers at Sky Valley Education Center simply evacuated students and used fans to clear the air when the fluorescent lights caught fire or smoked with noxious fumes. When black oil dripped onto desks and floors, they caught leaks with a bucket and duct-taped oil-stained carpets.
Then came the tests that confirmed their suspicions about the light ballasts.
"Sure enough ... it was PCB oil," said Cynthia Yost, who was among teachers who sent pieces of carpet and classroom air filters to a lab. Tests found elevated levels of the toxic chemicals, used as coolant in the decades-old ballasts that regulated electrical current to the lamps.
Millions of fluorescent light ballasts containing PCBs probably remain in schools and day care centers across the U.S. four decades after the chemicals were banned over concerns that they could cause cancer and other illnesses. Many older buildings also have caulk, ceiling tiles, floor adhesives and paint made with PCBs, which sometimes have been found at levels far higher than allowed by law.
Yet the Environmental Protection Agency has not attempted to determine the scope of PCB contamination or assess potential health risks, in large part because of lack of funding, political pressure and pushback from industry and education groups, according to dozens of interviews and thousands of pages of documents examined by The Associated Press.
Members of Congress who promised three years ago to find money to help address PCBs and other environmental problems in the nation's schools never introduced legislation.
And an EPA rule that would have required schools and day cares to remove PCB-containing ballasts moved slowly under the Obama administration, then was quashed by President Donald Trump within days of his inauguration.
That was the final straw for Tom Simons, a former EPA regulator who worked for years on the rule and said getting rid of ballasts was the least the EPA could do to protect children.
"We thought it was a no-brainer: There are millions out there. These things are smoking and dripping, so let's put this through," said Simons, who retired shortly after Trump took office.
Wikipedia entry on PCB (polychlorinated biphenyls).
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:07AM (17 children)
How cares about the progeny of the plebes in Monroe Wash.? They are only good to get their votes every 4 years and fly over them (with care not to publicly call them so).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:17AM (1 child)
If you rely on the government... you will get what you (should) expect.
(Score: 4, Touché) by c0lo on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:40AM
Like a $1T+ pension fund or $195,000/head [wikipedia.org] minimal state pension [wikipedia.org]?
Ah, you mean "if you rely on US government"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:02AM (13 children)
You also have to bear in mind that there's a significant faction within the US that wants the public schools to be absolutely awful places which exist to imprison the children of the lowest of the low until they can begin their long-term careers flipping burgers, cleaning toilets, and stocking shelves. And if a few of them get cancer or something, no big deal, just replace those employees with somebody else.
The anti-public-school faction is basically an alliance between:
- Religious nutjobs, who hate public schools because they can't push creationism and other religious beliefs.
- Union haters, who hate public schools because of the teachers' unions.
- Tax haters, who just don't want to have to pay for them.
- Profiteers, who hope to make big bucks at public expense with charter schools and private school vouchers and such.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:13AM
At my age, I find easier to beer in mind.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:18AM (10 children)
Which is why it always amuses me when people cry about home-schooling. There are reasons that people who actually care about their children's education want them out of the public system, and not all of them can afford the private schools.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:32AM (9 children)
Unfortunately, home-schooling is dominated (at least where I am) by the religious nutjobs who use it to:
1. Teach their kids religious dogma as fact.
2. Educate girls solely to be housewives.
Those are both problems.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:20AM (7 children)
You do not get to decide that those are problems.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:21PM (5 children)
Oh yes I do:
1. One of the religious dogmas often taught as fact is anti-vaccination. That not only puts the kids in question at risk but also everyone they come into contact with, which causes the death of innocent people.
2. The refusal to educate girls to be anything other than housewives is about setting them up to be married off to some dude who will beat and rape them, and making sure that they'll stay in that marriage rather than try to escape.
And if you don't see either of those as problems, you need your moral compass recalibrated.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:20PM (2 children)
Blind faith in total safety of any and all vaccination may kill you or your child. Blind faith in total evil of all men may make you or your child an unhappy, bitter genetic dead end.
Humans have developed sapience in order to use their brains to *think*. Do not make all that genetic investment go to waste.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:29PM (1 child)
I don't have blind faith, I have piles of studies, FDA trials, the near-eradication of diseases like measles before antivaxxers came along, and an understanding that on average doctors know a lot more about this stuff than a duffer like me. Whereas what you have is Jenny McCarthy, lies, and a few horror stories.
I don't have blind faith in the total evil of all men, I have people with direct experience of dudes out there that think of their wives/girlfriends as slaves rather than teammates, and would like those dudes to be an unhappy, bitter genetic dead end rather than continue to see women being beaten for no reason. I also know for a fact that there are lots of women in truly happy marriages, some of them with kids, which means that the kind of abuse conservatives seem to be advocating is entirely unnecessary.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:58PM
Of which, did you read, and understand, any? If not, you are no better off than a medieval peasant "having" a sermon in Latin preached to him.
Which is exactly the attitude that gets people crippled or killed in stupid ways. When *one* dumb mistake can be enough to do a number on you, those averages will do your soul a fat lot of good in the next world. Don't forget pharma companies too, that need their more expensive products have as many buyers as possible; the "opiate crisis" is not even done unfolding yet, it is *far* too early to forget.
For people fancying themselves smart, a fraction of time they spend in Internet flamewars against various "deniers", if instead spent on studying some biology, could well save their life and health and those of their family. With the plethora of information freely accessible, a failure to learn has no sensible excuse.
When a horror story happens to *your* relative, people will get whiplash looking how your attitude makes complete turnaround. It is always someone *else's* lives that go neatly into "acceptable losses".
Most people also have had directly observed women out there that think of their husbands/boyfriends as slaves instead of teammates. Being a shit human being is, unlike haemophilia, not an X-linked recessive disorder.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:59PM (1 child)
Oh no you didn't.
1. The practice of anti-vaccination is the problem, and that can be tracked. You can compel compliance, but they don't have to agree with it.
2. Speculative outcome and not any of your business whatsoever.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:21PM
Yeah, it can be tracked, after it kills a few hundred kids for the heinous crime of going to Disneyland.
First, it's not speculative in the slightest, because I know some of the victims of this pattern of behavior. As for it not being my business, are you saying it's OK for wives to be beaten?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:27PM
If you care about education, then bad homeschooling is a problem. I support homeschooling, but not religious nutters who use it as a tool to indoctrinate their children.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:00PM
Thexalon doesn't want parents to indoctrinate their kids -- that's HIS job (outsourced to govt employees).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @09:49PM
--people who want kids to be free
--people who want kids to learn
--people who don't agree to be subjugated by parasites
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18 2019, @02:18AM
Huh. The trick with toxic chemicals is to repurpose them and sell them as something useful.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Nx341YdUNI4C&pg=RA18-PA8&lpg=RA18-PA8&dq=sweep+dust+control+PCB+oil+sawdust&source=bl&ots=uZYTAZl_b-&sig=ACfU3U3GmP1vPXHkWMaMuki-94bN4zIuvA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCibOg3qTlAhV_GDQIHSRqD7MQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sweep%20dust%20control%20PCB%20oil%20sawdust&f=false [google.com]
PCBs used to be soaked up in sawdust --- both of them waste byproducts of paper mills -- and the resulting purple oily sawdust sold off in 55-gallon cardboard barrels as a dust control agent for use by janitors wielding pushbrooms. Nice sticky stuff gathered up the dust off the floor. Then disposing of the sawdust in the ordinary trash once it was dirty.
Magic happens!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:49AM (14 children)
Schools are run locally, not federally. Talk to your school about it if you have children attending.
It is human nature to look up to a leader, but this creates a pyramid shaped power structure that generally goes poorly for the people at the bottom. Here we have local control over the issue, but yet we still expect action at a level of government that is inappropriate for taking action. Act like sheep, get slaughtered like sheep. Start taking control over things that you have control over.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:06AM (7 children)
1. The EPA rules they're talking about are set at the federal level.
2. "Don't require kids to be poisoned" should be the law of the land at all levels.
3. Local governments don't always have the resources to do the right thing on their own, even if they want to.
Another thing to bear in mind is that as lousy as federal politics often is, in a lot of state and local governments it's even worse, because they tend to be run by people who couldn't hack it in federal politics and know it.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:11AM (5 children)
FTFY
Otherwise, I don't think there is a law that require kids to be poisoned at any level, thus your request is met even if all kids are poisoned without any law asking so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:24AM (4 children)
So the kids are in no way, shape, or form required to attend those schools, not even in the constructive sense?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:08AM (3 children)
I don't see what is constructive in getting those kids sick or killed.
Besides, what you propose is a false dichotomy, because there's no binary choice between "get your kid educated and sick or uneducated".
Many other alternative exist:
- stop spending like hell on MIC and allocate money to clean the school; *or*
- cut less the taxes on the rich and allocate to clean the schools; *or*
- take TMB-es old car batteries and dump the lead in them in the schools to make sure those schools are decontaminated after (who the hell am I kidding? [theguardian.com], not need dumping extra lead, even the ones known as already contaminated aren't clean); *or*
- massive class suit the government for dereliction of duty towards the citizens, even when imposing taxes on them.
For the well-enough-to-do, I seem to remember the alternative of home-schooling exists in US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday October 17 2019, @10:54AM (2 children)
Construction is a legal concept. For example, schooling is compulsory so you can't pull them out, private school is too expensive, so you can't send them there, you can't meet the requirements for home schooling for whatever reason, the local government refuses to fix the PCB problem, so CONSTRUCTIVELY, the law is requiring your kids to be poisoned by foreclosing any other lawful choice.
If any significant portion of the parents in the area were well-enough-to-do, the schools would have already been cleaned up. Toxic waste is for peons. Thus:
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:48PM (1 child)
I still prefer the "Do require kids not to be poisoned" better, because it deals directly with the problem, establishes a clear responsibility and fits well with "First, do no harm".
The "Don't require kids to be poisoned" makes from it an issue with no owner; endless finger-pointing and lawyering, no wonder it will never be solved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:48PM
Finger pointing and lawyering has a nearly infinite capacity for gumming up simple concepts. Either way you phrase it, you get finger pointing and lawyering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:10PM
It's worth looking at the list of Superfund sites to see just how many of them are federal government locations...
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Fluffeh on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:10AM (5 children)
I agree with this. What is there stopping a normal centre just changing out their own PCB containing articles - flipping out the ballasts before they leak/explode etc. Okay, sure it's going to cost more if they have already polluted the carpets and the like, but there is still nothing stopping them doing this before a law is passed that mandates it.
Same with your own house. You can always do things that go over and above local/state/federal laws and specifications.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:47AM (3 children)
Someone has to pay
When schools can't afford basic supplies [usatoday.com], replacing light fittings and ceilings may be beyond them
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Fluffeh on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:52AM (2 children)
My bad, I keep thinking we're a first would country...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:19PM
You'd think.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:49PM
These days, it is ridiculously common to put a kid in special education. Kids don't even need to be retards to get put in those programs. Special ed is expensive.
We mandated helpers for the disabled. That is expensive too.
This is simply what a first-world country does: blow money on people who don't need help because they are hopeless, blow money on people who don't need help because they are fine, and blow money on people who might benefit but not enough to be worth the investment.
Third-world countries aren't down with that. If you have trouble in school, you are kicked out. America lost the stomach for being practical.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:02AM
As always, (the lack of) money.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:20AM (2 children)
I've never seen oil filled ballasts before. Usually they are potted in some tar like compound.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:52AM
I've never seen one with oil either, but:
"Prior to 1980 in the United States, PCB-based oils were used as an insulating oil in many ballasts to provide cooling and electrical isolation (see transformer oil)."
"Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) were formerly used as transformer oil...in the USA, production of PCBs was banned in 1979..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:59AM
https://www.epa.gov/pcbs/polychlorinated-biphenyl-pcb-containing-fluorescent-light-ballasts-flbs-school-buildings [epa.gov]
Short quote (article is much longer)
> If the FLB contains PCBs, they are located inside the small capacitor within the FLB or in the potting material (a black, tar-like substance that encapsulates the internal electrical components). There would be approximately one to one half ounces of PCBs in the capacitor and lower amounts in the potting material. If an FLB fails or over heats, the capacitor may break open resulting in release of its oils and potting materials.
>
> PCBs may be present as a yellow, oily liquid or in the tar-like potting material that leaks from the FLB. The capacitor does not always leak when the FLB fails, and a leaking capacitor does always cause FLB failure. A leaking or rupturing FLB may increase PCB levels in the air. Therefore, measures should be taken to limit or avoid personal exposure.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:08AM
Pffft! Goes without saying
Toxic lawmakers linger in the capitol building and white house. Where's the superfund cleanup crew? Oh, wait, that would be us!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:44AM (1 child)
The overwhelming majority of PCB exposure comes via contaminated food. Airborne exposure is not very significant except among workers who handle PCBs occupationally. Skin exposure is only significant in the event of acute toxicity. So don't let the kids play in it.
So people are probably thinking this is like asbestos, which (once disturbed) is significant as an airborne contaminant, but it isn't. Obviously you can't just leave a PCB spill lying around for the janitor to clean up at the end of the day, but there really isn't any significant risk to just having the PCBs around.
Remember, essentially every adult alive today went to schools and worked in offices that used these chemicals, but they are mostly associated with rare cancers that are only seen in significant rates among workers in industries that handled them directly. It's good that they are no longer being manufactured, because they do accumulate in the food chain, but they should be treated as a thing to deal with during remodeling or demolition, like lead paint, and not something that needs to be some major nationwide project to clean up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:05PM
People can be made to cough up any amount of money and give up any number of rights, if you parade out a bogeyman to scare them into not thinking straight. Cue the industry of FUD. Eco-scares, bio-scares, nuke-scares, climate scares, political scares, economic scares, the procession is endless.
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:17PM (4 children)
So I'm the only one who wondered why printed circuit boards and their toxicity or lack thereof was an issue in schools? I mean even dumbass kids don't generally go around licking them.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:24PM
You are not.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:58PM (2 children)
They make printed circuit boards out of solidified polychlorinated biphenyls. Evidently polychlorinated biphenyl vapors cause dumbassism, so there's your problem right there.
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:02PM (1 child)
So do both public schools and being a teenager but you don't see us freaking out about those.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Touché) by RS3 on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:17PM
It's an Emily Litella thing. We just haven't gotten to the "never mind" stage yet.
(Score: 2) by GreatOutdoors on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:17PM
There are still many many thousands of local transformers sitting on poles across most of the country (and likely the world) which are filled with PCB oil. Based on my experience, the power companies usually run those transformers until they fail and leak out. Once all the oil has all leaked out, they can then remove the old transformer which has no oil left to test and discard it.
Seen it happenen.
Yes, I did make a logical argument there. You should post a logical response.