Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:28AM   Printer-friendly
from the this-conversation-may-be-monitored-or-recorded dept.

Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

It's an admission that appears to have caught Google's devices chief by surprise. After being challenged as to whether homeowners should tell guests smart devices - such as a Google Nest speaker or Amazon Echo display - are in use before they enter the building, he concludes that the answer is indeed yes.

"Gosh, I haven't thought about this before in quite this way," Rick Osterloh begins. "It's quite important for all these technologies to think about all users... we have to consider all stakeholders that might be in proximity."

And then he commits. "Does the owner of a home need to disclose to a guest? I would and do when someone enters into my home, and it's probably something that the products themselves should try to indicate."

Considering all the stakeholders seems potentially exhausting.


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Booga1 on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:45AM (11 children)

    by Booga1 (6333) on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:45AM (#908132)

    At this point we have been informed that Google/Amazon/IoT device manufacturers are listening [soylentnews.org] into your conversations. [soylentnews.org]
    They gave foreign nationals [soylentnews.org] unfettered access to the data produced; and they've left that data unencrypted.
    The devices themselves [soylentnews.org] aren't even secured.

    With those Ring doorbell cameras and stuff, you might as well post signs on the lawn with notifications how the property is under 24/7 surveillance so the entire neighborhood knows.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:47AM (8 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:47AM (#908136) Journal

      Break into my house electronically, please.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:51AM (6 children)

        by Fluffeh (954) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:51AM (#908139) Journal

        That's akin to posting "Roast Me" on 4chan with a selfie - you're playing with fire Takyon.

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:04AM (5 children)

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:04AM (#908147) Journal
          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 2) by black6host on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:06AM (3 children)

            by black6host (3827) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:06AM (#908162) Journal

            Actually you are right. It IS the new normal. Back in my day this stuff wasn't even technologically possible. But now, it is everywhere and not only can we not escape it in public we invite it into our homes and lives.

            If you look at the grand scheme of things we have had amazing advances in a short period of time. It'll take a while for us to sort all that out.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:33AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:33AM (#908172)

              Go after the young and inexperienced. They still trust any knothead with a microphone and guitar.

              Then once you have them, use them to shame everyone else onto the bandwagon.

              • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:30PM

                by maxwell demon (1608) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:30PM (#908360) Journal

                You forgot step 3: Once enough people have it, work on making it necessary for daily life, by removing the alternatives “for lack of demand”.

                --
                The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:15AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:15AM (#908209)

              My favorite part was asking a friend to turn off their gadget while I slept on the couch, then they had to turn it back on in order to turn off the lights.

              I think The Clapper was the pinnacle of remote light tech.

          • (Score: 2) by Barenflimski on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:36AM

            by Barenflimski (6836) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:36AM (#908176)

            In a world where you can trust everyone this stuff is great.

            I wonder how far off we are until fridge delivery folks are working on the side for private investigators?

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:36AM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:36AM (#908175) Journal

        I say put these things all over the capitol building and nearby restaurants and coffee houses, everywhere. If we catch important people, an expeditious solution will suddenly appear.

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:59AM (1 child)

      by driverless (4770) on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:59AM (#908226)

      I just deal with it by yelling:

      ALEXA, SET ALARM FOR 2AM, MAXIMUM VOLUME.
      ALEXA, ORDER 10,000 ROLLS TOILET PAPER FROM AMAZON, EXPRESS SHIPPING.
      ALEXA, EMAIL DEATH THREAT TO POTUS@WHITEHOUSE.GOV.

      when I enter someone's house. Then I quickly find out whether there's a listening device installed or not.

      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:32PM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:32PM (#908364) Journal

        That only covers the products of one company, and only in the default setting.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:33AM (2 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:33AM (#908171) Journal

    "Does the owner of a home need to disclose to a guest? I would and do when someone enters into my home..."

    Note he doesn't say "I am disclosing ...". So:
    - he doesn't use smart devices (eh? Not eating your own dog food? Then... why should we?); *and/or*
    - he's reclusive and doesn't have guests (at least, none so far)

    Do you see other alternatives?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:37AM

      by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:37AM (#908199) Journal

      Translation/completion: "I would, if I thought it might matter, at some point, on a day which happens to be the 43rd day of the month, if I had any of these devices in my house in the first place"

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @11:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @11:21AM (#909199)

      I think he's lying.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Barenflimski on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:41AM (1 child)

    by Barenflimski (6836) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:41AM (#908178)

    Every device that listens will need to come with a sign one can post in the front window of their house right next to the cable companies home security system sticker.

    "All conversations inside this dwelling may be recorded and sent to a third party for review."

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:14AM

      by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:14AM (#908208) Journal

      Mechanical turk knows I was right when we were yelling at each other

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by MadTinfoilHatter on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:50AM

    by MadTinfoilHatter (4635) on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:50AM (#908225)

    As usual xkcd [xkcd.com] has shown the way.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:21PM (2 children)

    by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:21PM (#908306) Journal

    What information are you even giving out with this notification anyway? You have no idea what these companies are going to do with voice recordings of locations with time and date, and even if they told you there *was* something they wouldnt do with it, in every case it mattered that has turned out to be a lie and/or through incompetence something they are incapable of doing.

    Really someone tell me,

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN GOOGLE HAS A VOICE RECORDING OF MINE BESIDES I CAN HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY WILL DO WITH IT BESIDES WHATEVER THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH WHICH IS EVERYTHING?

    What am I supposed to do with this information upon arrival at a residence besides derive the bad judgement, blind trust, willful ignorance and gullibility of the occupants? At this point, THAT is the product the people who put these in their homes are selling, their ignorance and foolishness.

    Ads should read 'Google looking for a few more useful idiots to tyrannize with a voluntary always-on domestic listening device, and there are so few people left who blindly trust us do to our horrific record of criminal privacy violations, we are looking for someone just like YOU! Can you imagine how great your life will be when a massive international corporation can control your homes locks and environmental controls? Why, we could even lock you in and burn you alive, but that's not something good customers like you would worry about, because you are special.'

    Or something.

    Thesesystemsarefailing.net especially any company selling a networked digital assistant or home automation

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:37PM (1 child)

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:37PM (#908368) Journal

      What information are you even giving out with this notification anyway?

      The information that you have a device with a microphone, of which you cannot guarantee that it won't transmit their conversations to third parties. What the guests are making with that information is their choice. But if you don't tell them, they don't have that choice.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Friday October 18 2019, @10:05AM

        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Friday October 18 2019, @10:05AM (#908748) Journal

        Yes, but I am pointing out that it is too vague.

        Its like a warning that 'somewhere in this room a weapon is pointed at someone, now carry on. My responsibility here is completed. Relax dude, why are you freaking out, its just a weapon pointed at someone, it may or may not be loaded. I already warned you about it, why are you being so paranoid?'

        Then you come to the convo and say, 'The warning meant that there is a weapon pointed at someone somewhere. So that's what he meant.'

        So in the future if someone gets hurt is the owner of the house, who had a hidden, uncontrollable weapon installed in their living room, absolved of any legal responsibility? Then why isnt there a form to sign in triplicate? Because there is no way for any of the parties ever to get any redress of grievances in this situation, because you are completely powerless, because you gave all of your power away.

        We are talking about legal liability here, the most fine printed, specifically worded, weasel logic field in the entire world, and you are saying there is a microphone here turned on, connected to the internet, and this absolves you of all responsibilty because a verbal warning was given without even a verifiable acknowledgement recorded, except by the potentially guilty party. Nice.

        That is nuts, so these high up google types are suggesting something that is actually insane, while people like me who have seen how this stuff is really used to repress and covertly attack civilians for their ideological beliefs, are the ones being called insane for warning everyone.
           

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by hwertz on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:59PM (1 child)

    by hwertz (8141) on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:59PM (#908382)

    I'm amazed by the advertising for these things... invariably, the person in the ad is like 2 feet from the device they are using, like "Hey you, turn on the water faucet!" while they are AT THE FAUCET. They have super-fake-looking (even for an ad!) scenarios where they are at a counter, but there hands are full because they won't lower what they are holding once inch to put down on the counter. One, the person uses the device to change the thermostat -- while they are running all around the room moving cushions and etc. around anyway, they literally would have walked past the thermostat a dozen times anyway.

    Give up my privacy for that? No thanks!

    Also -- they are always about a foot from the Alexa, Google Assistant, etc. Which brought up the question to me -- can they at least make an option so one PUSHES A BUTTON on the device, it turns on a light while it's listening, then ask it whatever? That would a) Take care of the privacy issue. It won't listen if the button's not pushed, and it's only listening when the light is on. Fake "my hands are full!!!" scenario aside this makes it fully functional for the playing with "smart lights", looking up info, putting stuff on the TV, etc. etc. that these are really used for while maintaining privacy. b) Might even increase sales, instead of buying one to spy on ^H^H assist a whole living room, some might buy several to keep near several chairs in the room. Plus of course the additional sales to privacy-minded people who would not be caught dead with one spying 24/7, but might buy one that only listens when you tell it to.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday October 18 2019, @05:22AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday October 18 2019, @05:22AM (#908684) Journal

      Alexa dots have a mute button. You can unmute, ask, then mute again. It glows a nice "danger red" while muted. Of course, this is done in software and you have to trust Amazon that it isn't listening at this point.

      You have to press a button on Fire TV remotes to make that use Alexa, AFAIK.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(1)