The deadline of yet another, and perhaps the most insidious, element of the post-9/11 initiatives (a partial list of which includes the establishment of the Transportation Security Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, and a never-ending international war against a nebulously-defined, noncorporeal enemy, "terror") is less than one year from coming to fruition. Beginning no later than October 1, 2020, citizens of all US states and territories will be required to have a Real ID compliant card or US passport to board a commercial plane or enter a Federal government facility. Pundits citing the inevitability of what amounts to a national ID card have, regrettably, been vindicated.
https://www.aier.org/article/while-you-slept-government-created-internal-passports/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 06 2019, @03:59AM (12 children)
I been saying this shit since back in September of 2001 and everyone's all "Poo poo! They'll never do that, this is America!". Well, here's your lesson for the day. Democrat or Republican, they'll take every bit of power and control over your life that you let them get away with. They got this particular one passed because scared people are stupid people. So next time get mad instead of scared. There will still be consequences to not thinking but it'll be someone else having to live with them instead of you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:10AM (5 children)
Incorrect. There will be consequences for you after you get yourself involuntarily admitted to the mental hospital for an anger disorder.
(Score: 2, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:49AM (4 children)
Yeah, that ain't something that happens here in the states. We're so big on being pissed off that it's our primary export.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:56AM
This is post-9/11 America. You're not allowed to be angry. Your beliefs are so badly out of date, you're going to the mental ward.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:07AM (2 children)
Huh. Like it matters! Being pissed off and doing nothing about it as as inconsequential as not being pissed off.
Note: I'm not saying that you need to or, indeed, you can do something different of being pissed off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 07 2019, @11:29PM (1 child)
Everyone needs a hobby.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 07 2019, @11:32PM
When the hobby is a habit of an entire population, it's no longer a hobby, it's tradition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @08:21AM (4 children)
Yet voter ID laws you applaud. See the cognitive dissonance inherent in the system!
(Score: 3, Touché) by slinches on Wednesday November 06 2019, @08:42PM (2 children)
No cognitive dissonance is necessary unless you don't see a difference between traveling freely within a country and participating in its elections.
(Score: 1) by zion-fueled on Thursday November 07 2019, @01:05AM (1 child)
Its not dissonance, just self serving.
Voter ID = bad. poor people are too stupid to get IDs, its not like they need them to do everything else in life. DISCRIMINATION! /s
National ID/Papers please = good. How dare you travel without identifying yourself. If you're poor, nobody is stopping you from walking.
What's the common theme here? Voter ID hurts the authoritarians while keeping the proles in line with via "REAL" id is just part of the agenda. Public and private positions, they don't really believe either of these arguments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09 2019, @09:05PM
You realize that both parties are authoritarian and support Realid, right?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 07 2019, @11:35PM
That's actually a good point and something I've been thinking about lately. The type of voter ID laws I want instituted would have no personally identifiable information on them or in a database anywhere. A salted hash of your full name, date of birth, place of birth, yadda, yadda, yadda would do just fine if you could keep them from being counterfeited at scale.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @10:08AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8JW75Lv25k&t=27 [youtube.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by D2 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:02AM (48 children)
Get a grip, you paranoid cabbage.
This isn't a passport or national ID. First, A passport is quite literally documentation required to cross a border. Nobody needs this just to move around the country. I routinely drive across state borders without needing a passport or Starred ID.
As for national ID, this is not an national ID. This is more than 50 different entities adopting a high standard of identity before issuing a Star ID (e.g., requiring people to present proof of residency and identity (birth cert and 2 kinds of bills to your claimed address of record, typically). It's heightened standards for individual state IDs.
Requiring people to have that sort of vetted ID before entering federal facilities or board aircraft is gently since it can be a barrier for access for the same people who are getting rejected at polling locations. People should be able to enter a courthouse, period. That said, the ID part of this isn't orwellian. Just burdensome.
SMFH.
(Score: 2) by D2 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:07AM (2 children)
Apparently the AIER is libertarian ranting masquerading as an economic policy think tank. Case in point: nothing economic about this, but here they are, ranting about this encroaching on freedom. FTN. When I want a sensible take on civil liberties, I look to the EFF.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:30AM
https://www.eff.org/issues/real-id [eff.org]
TL;DR: "We also fucking hate Real ID."
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @08:23AM
These types of posts always crack me up because I never see them on CNN et al stories which are all obvious CIA propaganda at this point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2013#Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Modernization_Act_of_2012 [wikipedia.org]
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/02/05/mainstream-media-outlets-keep-hiring-ciaintel-veterans-and-its-gross/ [caitlinjohnstone.com]
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/07/dems-m07.html [wsws.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWLjYJ4BzvI [youtube.com]
Basically it is just saying you are so dumb you will censor what you read for the US intellegence community, they don't even need to do anything.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:19AM (33 children)
I can't really see why this is an issue? Most countries in the world have some kind of internal ID mechanism, why do Americans not want it?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:28AM
Because if you're not driving, you're not required to carry a driver's license.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:53AM (25 children)
Because we have this funny notion that the government works for us and not the other way around, so it's none of their fucking business who we are unless there's a warrant out for us.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:03AM (10 children)
You might have realized (still waiting for Trump to get it) the govt does not work for you personally. If your countrymen decide it's best for "the country" to give you a lobotomy then you will get one - a nice one probably. You'll be bakc wearing the red hat the next day.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @03:40PM (9 children)
Um, no legal nor political science expert here, but USA is a republic, not a democracy, in spite of what is commonly said even by major political figures. Read older political works, speeches, etc.- they always talk about "our republic".
Sometimes I wish USA was more of a democracy, and we occasionally have referendums. But sometimes I think it goes very wrong. Here's an example of where I wish we did not allow the public to decide:
I read where yesterday Pennsylvania had a referendum about "victim rights" which passed overwhelmingly. Most of the provisions seem obvious, and I'm surprised they weren't already in place.
But one provision seems very contrary to "due process": the accused no longer has the right to "discovery". So if someone accuses you of something you did not do, you have no opportunity to prepare a defense. You have to guess what evidence they may have, even if it's flawed, fraudulent, or just plain wrong, and you have to hope you've guessed correctly, and/or that you and/or your attorney are quick enough to figure out and defend it in oral argument (court).
So now more innocent people will be thrown in already cruel and overcrowded prisons, and they'll rot there while hoping for an appeal.
Point is: general public often vote on emotion. That referendum should never have passed. It further chips away at "innocent until proven guilty".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:23PM (1 child)
A nation being a "republic" simply means that the head of state is not a monarch. The United States has an elected head of state called the President of the United States, so indeed it is a republic. It is also a democracy due to the election bit.
Of course the older speeches from the founders made a big deal about "our republic", because they were Seriously Pissed™ at the British monarchy and wanted nothing whatsoever to do with it.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:27PM
Agreed, except, again no expert, but I thought "republic" meant we have representatives (and senators), rather than "direct" democracy.
And in USA case, the representatives are "democratically elected"*.
*Is there any other kind of election? OK, maybe one where the already in place officials elect new ones?
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:57PM (3 children)
And one has the right to challenge the law in the judiciary. If it indeed removes discovery, then it will be a due process violation and it is only a matter of time until it is struck down. Anyone convicted in the interim where the law change may have played a factor will be turned loose once the law is overturned.
Now if it were nothing but a republic (or a pure democracy) then there could be no judicial review. So maybe it's best that we have the system we do.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:30PM (2 children)
Well stated. I'm always worried when I hear of laws that remove basic rights, due process, etc. I don't like that the police will drag someone away in handcuffs solely on one person's say-so, for example. You've given me some hope, thank you.
(Score: 2) by Nobuddy on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:22PM (1 child)
Gitmo.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:06PM
Aaaaand, right back to depressed about the govt.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:09AM (2 children)
In the 28 years I voted in California, a state with many ballot referendums -- I saw exactly two that were not either destructive of liberty or functionally a tax hike to give money to some special interest. Yet about half of these passed. Most voters vote with their feelz, and are easily swayed by mudslinging (not so much by hard cold facts).
So, yeah.. I thought power-to-the-people via referendum was a dandy idea... until I saw it in action, over and over and over.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:35AM (1 child)
> Most voters vote with their feelz, and are easily swayed by mudslinging (not so much by hard cold facts).
Yup. Sad but true. "Never let the facts get in the way of a good (news) story."
"Popular Misconception" drives much of society's thinking and voting. People are too quick to believe what they hear in the news- they should be more skeptical. We need more Rosanne Rosanadana newscasters.
In the news recently: CA proposition 47, which has resulted in a huge upswing in crimes of theft, shoplifting, etc. Brilliant!
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday November 07 2019, @04:51AM
Apparently the next natural step for a fullblown liberal democracy is to vote yourself into chaos.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:13AM
"...it's none of their fucking business who we are or where we are going", unless there's a warrant issued for us.
TFTFY.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:21AM (10 children)
FTFY
For a govt that actually work for their citizens, take the Norway's govt as an example, with impressive results to show [wikipedia.org].
Ah, yes, by the by, the Norway govt do require their citizens identify themselves with a Norwegian identification number [skatteetaten.no] to access their services. This is to show that "national id" and "who's working for whom" are orthogonal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:53AM (3 children)
But I bet you can't stay in Norway without a national ID so long that your kids (who also don't have an ID) are applying to college and wondering if they'll get deported to a country where they don't even speak the language. It's almost like the USA doesn't bother to enforce some laws. No. Wait. It's exactly like that.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:16AM (2 children)
And...?
No, really, it's a genuine question: what exactly is your point?
I can see many possible interpretations and I have this feeling there may be others that I don't see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:45PM
By definition ACs just think it's kewl to write stuff in a little box, click "Submit", and see it published online. Woe dude, awesome! The usefulness of the content is hit-or-miss.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday November 07 2019, @12:03AM
AC may be hinting that there are extra problems when the rules change mid-stream, especially when no provisions are made for that.
For example, getting a "real ID" can be quite a problem if you don't already have an ID. Many don't because it wasn't required at one time if you didn't drive.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:08AM (5 children)
You wouldn't get the same results with the same system in the USA, or in AU for that matter.
While I would love to import the cultural properties that help Norway here, I still wouldn't want to import their system.
Having all the people counted and registered and collated and prepared for the government makes things a little more efficient, when the government is good. When it goes bad? Either domestic tyranny, or an invasion, or a 'color revolution' and boom all that information is now in the wrong hands.
In this day and age, it's likely the russian mob already has it for sale.
A little inefficiency is a price worth paying to avoid that.
But, in our context in the USA, I don't think it's even a trade off. The current system is more than sufficient. There is no legitimate reason to 'upgrade' it - but many nefarious ones.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday November 06 2019, @02:39PM (4 children)
Interestingly, Norway is number 6 in military spending per capita which makes it number two right after the US if we discount crazy governments. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-spend-the-most-on-military-per-capita.html [worldatlas.com]
Does liberal correlates with militarized?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:45PM (3 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday November 06 2019, @10:53PM (2 children)
I seriously doubt they can resist such powers with any level of military. If they do take it seriously, they should have develop and deploy nuclear weapons. Therefore I suspect they use the power to keep the population in check. Not directly, mind you, but by using propaganda: "join the army or else" type.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @11:35PM
You would probably be surprised if you read about the Winter War - Finland fought off Russia (and GB, but I think the other Allied left them alone). It's not impossible.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday November 07 2019, @05:12AM
The point is not to make it utterly impossible to be conquered, of course. They're quite aware they can't do that. They've been conquered many times - most recently by Germany in WWII.
The point is to make sure that any invasion will cost more than it is worth. It's deterrence.
And since they joined NATO, that's another level to it as well. They assume that NATO would come to their defense - but not that their allies are permanently on standby ready to scramble at a moments notice. So in the case of invasion, they'd be hoping they only need to hold out a relatively short time before allies start showing up.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by darkfeline on Thursday November 07 2019, @06:26AM (1 child)
If you don't have ID, how does the government know it's working for you? You may not even be a citizen, in which case the government definitely isn't/shouldn't be working for you.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 07 2019, @11:38PM
Damn, that was a pretty good one. I tip my hat to you good sir or madam.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:48AM
It is a small step: first require that all _persons_ have a valid ID...later define those who fail to produce said ID on demand to be non-_persons_.
Nonpersons do not fare well if one's government devolves into oppressive tyranny, and there are signs that such devolution is imminent and unavoidable, and some would add "universally" to that phrase (c.f. China's "social credit" scoring, and the US immigration mess).
Personally, having held a passport for decades, I am not at all affected by the rule-change, nor am I often challenged to produce ID, but then I gave up air travel five years ago (for me, there is no destination worth the time, trouble and CO2-cost). I do, however, worry over the impending oppression, and wonder when they will come and who they will come for first and at what point good men will need to make a stand.
OTOH, any evangelical worth his salt will assure you that all this must happen before the Lord returns. Something to look forward to, I suppose.
(Score: 2) by Tokolosh on Wednesday November 06 2019, @03:14PM
Because we are exceptional, and want to remain that way.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:54PM (3 children)
Your identity is none of the government's business unless required for a legitimate government purpose, and one should not be required to obtain government identification because one is free not to. One may lead a severely limited life without it, but it used to be possible to do so. One might even live life without a State ID card (no driving privileges, ID only). One could even vote without a government ID (still can in places that are still free).
Entering Federal facilities (within common sense limits - you don't just 'walk into' a prison or the White House) is a right of the governed and one should not be required to identify oneself. Airplane travel... well.... that's certainly saying you're not innocent until proven guilty to require an ID to board and for a long long time in the history of air travel identification was not required for domestic air travel.
It started with Birth Certificates, then taxes, then moved to Social Security. Then citizenship verifications for work.
It may in fact be a function of population pressure; I believe Heinlein speculated such speaking in Lazarus Long's voice.
At any rate, no, this isn't an internal passport. But we're on the slippery slope for that direction. Next up... you won't be able to travel at all in a different state from your own without valid identification.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:01PM (1 child)
Heinlein:
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday November 07 2019, @06:52AM
You don't need individual IDs when the computers, cameras, and cell towers can track you continuously, though.
(Score: 1) by zion-fueled on Thursday November 07 2019, @01:17AM
You already can't travel. They tried to get the TSA onto train/bus stations. More and more places require IDs to board or purchase tickets. Horses and walking don't work on the freeway, they're illegal.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Captival on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:24AM (1 child)
I don't really care if it IS a national ID. As a non-terrorist non-illegal, I already require a State ID anyways, and it's not like the feds can't get that info if they really want it.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday November 07 2019, @12:19AM
It wasn't that long ago that you really didn't need an ID if you didn't drive. Even buying alcohol wasn't much problem as long as you looked like you were 'likely' over 18.
Getting your DL wasn't a big deal either, they just took your word for your name, DOB, etc. The closest thing to verification was that they mailed the determinant card to the address you gave.
SS card was much the same (you didn't need one until high school age anyway).
It's worth noting that back in the day, the implementation of the driver's license wasn't without controversy as well.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by epitaxial on Wednesday November 06 2019, @01:54PM
It's still 100% unneeded bullshit as EVERY 9/11 hijack already had a legitimate ID of some sort.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @02:33PM (1 child)
You're dumb.
You're also saying that it's a state-branded national ID.
(Score: 1) by zion-fueled on Thursday November 07 2019, @01:22AM
It is a state branded national ID.
The act required the following:
1. Centralized ID issuing point in each state.
2. Multiple verifications on info submitted
3. Info is shared with and checked against a "fusion" center.
So there are only 50 places making IDs and the federal government has full access to the data.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:40PM
Keep telling yourself that. It's the next step to living in a "papers, please!" country.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:00PM (1 child)
Correction... the Heinlein quote is:
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:01PM
crap... wrong respond to. ;)
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1) by bmimatt on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:36PM (1 child)
This looks like it is about work eligibility.
Here's what CA DMV requires, other than to show up in person:
https://realid.dmv.ca.gov/your-real-id-checklist/ [ca.gov]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:15AM
That's comical. I have personally seen DLs issued by the CA DMV to people with no documentation ... and more importantly, no English (speaking Spanish appears to be the true criterion). Whereas I, an obvious anglo, was required to prove my identity.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1) by Jay on Wednesday November 06 2019, @09:50PM
So yeah, they want some standards for IDs that states give out if you're going to fly on a plane. And those standards are pretty low, at least in my state. Proof of identity, residency in the state, and some proxy for citizenship, either W-4 or social security card.
My wife actually went and got hers this morning, because her birthday is coming up and they won't renew her license until she provides the documentation. She was in and out in 15 minutes. Brought her current ID, passport, and social security card. She is who she says she is, and lives where she says she lives.
And isn't that the damn point of an ID? This tin-foil-hattery is really silly. "OMG, THE GUVERMENT WANTS TO MAKE IT HARD FOR ME TO FAKE MY ID!!!!" Um, yes. That's a good thing in most of our books.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:03AM (7 children)
Don't subject yourself to TSA.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:05AM (6 children)
You don't have a right to a vehicle.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:27AM (3 children)
No right to live, have yooooooooou.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:30AM (2 children)
Shut up, Elon.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:19AM (1 child)
Pay up, Bezos.
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:26AM
You, the lone guy muttering for yourself there, in the corner!
Show us your id paper or go mutter somewhere else. This is the govt social services not the mental hospital.
(large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:44PM (1 child)
Please show me the law that state I have no right to a vehicle. You realize the Bill of Rights does not enumerate your rights, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09 2019, @09:10PM
That's true, but that's not Government Almighty's view.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @12:30PM
The law only applies to citizens... if you enter the country illegally, you're scott free!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by danmars on Wednesday November 06 2019, @02:59PM (6 children)
My perspective on REAL ID is that it didn't change a whole lot of things; it's primarily a way to bully some lazy states who didn't bother to actually verify who people were, to make them slightly improve the quality of their cards and quit doing crazy things like making them valid for 50 years.
A lot of states have had stricter rules in line with REAL ID for a long time, things like requiring a few forms of ID (to establish who you are, your citizenship, and that you actually live there) since long before they were mandated to. It's basically just telling states they can't hand out driver's licenses and identification cards like candy to everyone who asks for them, and that they have to be at least plausibly difficult to counterfeit, if they want the cards to be viewed as legitimate indication of identity by the federal government.
I find it remarkable that we've managed to make it through with this policy and not national ID / national DL or requiring federally-issued documents like passports for everyone to fly.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Common Joe on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:42PM (2 children)
What makes it a big deal is that it removes a huge state right -- self autonomy to license things. There's never been a law saying that California has to allow Texas driver's licenses. That's always been just a courtesy, but that's a'changin. The whole idea of "The United States" is that the states are supposed to remain separate -- united only for the basic things life defense of the country. But that is something most people no longer seem to understand or want.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:43PM
It's not a courtesy. Full Faith And Credit is Article IV Section 1 of the United States Constitution. (If one has a marriage license in State A, State B must respect the couple is married. A driver's license in State A entitiles one to operate a motor vehicle in State B). It has its thorny issues as well, of course: Just because one has a concealed carry license from one's home state does not allow one to carry concealed in another. If I remember right (and may be wrong), the lack of this coordination was one of the problems with the Articles of Confederation.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Jay on Wednesday November 06 2019, @09:56PM
So your preference is that IDs issued by one state not be respected in another state?
Fucking brilliant!
That means the only nationally accepted ID would be.....a US Passport. Which is exactly what you're railing on against.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by slinches on Wednesday November 06 2019, @08:48PM (1 child)
Why is it crazy for an ID to be valid for long terms? It's not like people change their identity so frequently that they need to recheck every year or two.
(Score: 2) by danmars on Thursday November 07 2019, @06:59PM
While you may still be the same person, cards essentially have no long-term security against counterfeiters - their only ultimate security is in their replacement with newer designs. Have you seen an ID issued 20 years ago?
McLovin is an easy example. While an ID issued in that design still belongs to the same person, a card with ancient/nonexistent physical security features is easily counterfeited and anyone can have a fake ID in that insecure design, so you carrying that card is in no way an indication that you are who you say you are. Built-in obsolescence (an expiration date which reasonably corresponds to how long that card will remain reasonably secure) makes sense for items which are significant targets for counterfeiting.
We're already starting out at a car system, so I won't go for a car analogy. Maybe Star Wars? "It's an older code, sir, but it checks out." - You get rid of that attack vector by making the codes expire.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday November 07 2019, @12:25AM
POOF! your credit cards, ID, and SS card just disappeared. Now, see how easy it is to get replacements. BTW, you didn't notice but your ID expired last year (how an ID expires when the person didn't also expire is beyond me).
Now, just to add to the fun, imagine if the bills are in your SO's name.
Good luck danmars, IF that's really who you are!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:13PM (3 children)
FTFY.
This is not a passport. You need to have one to get on a plane. You can drive across state lines without presenting papers. You can fly to any other state without getting prior approval. You can fly to another state by using another valid ID, such as a (real) passport, a military ID, or a few other trusted forms of ID.
More to the point, everybody who has been to college knows the market for fake driver's licenses, to get alcohol among other things. They also know how easy it has historically been to make.
You can agree or disagree if there "should" be a national ID, but let's not conflate this effort with an internal passport, with border checks, and "papers please."
But I guess it's a less inflammatory a headline, so that's why the horribly disingenuous misrepresentation.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:51PM
FTFFY. There is no "national ID", but rather all the participating States and organizations have all applied a common framework for how they go about issuing their ID's. And the Federal government has issued regulations denying access of people who are not so endowed.
Now.... let's sit back and wait for the FAKE ID's that are "Real ID" compliant. They will happen.
And what it is saying is that if you do not have such an ID (my driver's license, renewed last year, is NOT compatible), then you will not board a domestic flight. That's pretty goddamn close to "papers please." How long until buses, trains, and all other forms of nonprivate interstate transport shall be required to have that?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Wednesday November 06 2019, @09:28PM (1 child)
I was talking to a lady in the gas station and she asked for my I'D for some beer. She scanned the back of it and it made me curious. We talked some more (for some reason people find me the kind of person they can open up to) and she told me her niece had a fake I'D and her niece came in to the gas station and she scanned the back of the fake I'D and it passed verification.
Just an FYI.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @11:40PM
The barcode on the back just passes DOB info IIRC - it should be plenty easy to counterfeit.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:57PM
Link [dhs.gov].
When I was a young child my parents allowed me to fly to California to see stay with extended family for a couple of weeks over the summer. This was before even metal detectors were required. They coordinated with the airline, walked me to my gate and IIRC my Mom came on board the aircraft to seat me, then left. The aircrew took wonderful care of me and the family were waiting when I came out of the gate on the other side. Then vice-versa to come home.
How does that work today, with the "you don't have ID and boarding pass you're not passing the security checkpoint"? Are minors still allowed to travel on a flight unaccompanied? And will Real ID change anything about that process if so?
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(Score: 2) by jasassin on Wednesday November 06 2019, @11:44PM
What effect will this have on undocumented immigrants? If they get arrested and fined, they can't get in to pay the fine? This is very interesting.
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