Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Could the world cope if GPS stopped working?
What would happen if GPS - the Global Positioning System - stopped working?
For a start, we would all have to engage our brains and pay attention to the world around us when getting from A to B. Perhaps this would be no bad thing: we'd be less likely to drive into rivers or over cliffs through misplaced trust in our navigation devices.
Pick your own favourite story about the kind of idiocy only GPS can enable. Mine is the Swedish couple who misspelled the Italian island of Capri and turned up hundreds of miles away in Carpi, asking where the sea was.
But these are the exceptions.
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Could the World Cope If GPS Stopped Working?
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(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:17PM
Does it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:19PM (4 children)
Most of the effects they describe are at worst temporary, until people re-learn how to do such things without GPS (and face it, most of the routes you drive are routes you drive regularly anyway, so at any time, most people won't look at maps or slow down for signs).
And taxi companies did very well for decades without knowing exactly where every taxi is.
The real problems are where we rely on GPS technologically. For example, in aviation the pre-GPS positioning systems have been found superfluous due to GPS, and therefore cannot be relied on to be available any more. And an airplane cannot simply stop at the side of the road to study the map.
Also, all places that rely on GPS to accurately determine time would get into trouble.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Immerman on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:59PM (1 child)
There's always the original aircraft navigation system - dead reckoning. You can actually find big concrete... arrows(?) scattered around the U.S. that were used as navigation markers for early aircraft. Fast and easy to make, though not as efficient as a large number of direct routes.
And of course all you really need to figure out exactly where you are in the world is a sextant and an accurate watch.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Sunday November 10 2019, @06:16PM
Modern airline navigation only uses GPS as a backup anyhow. They operate on radio navigation beacons.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 5, Funny) by driverless on Sunday November 10 2019, @01:04AM
Some of them will have serious long-term consequences. Millennials will no longer be able to geotag their selfies, which will require years of counselling and psychological support to get over.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 10 2019, @05:33AM
At least in the US, there are a lot of the old navigation beacons (VORs) still in service, just in case of something like this happening. The other kind of beacons, NDB, have been retired - these were mostly used for instrument approaches anyway although it was possible to navigate with them in a pinch.
The real problem for aviation is that air traffic would mostly have to switch back to the old "highways in the sky" as opposed to being able to just go wherever they want, greatly increasing traffic congestion. (You don't have to use the "sky highways" if you have the right equipment "RNAV" or are not on instrument flight plan, but airliners have to use instrument flying and most don't have the RNAV equipment any more).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:19PM (7 children)
I could at least. As far as my phone knows, it's always at home. I don't have anything against using a map app as a map but I'm not interested in turn-by-turn, GPS-assited navigation nonsense. But then I started driving back when you had to either be able to navigate all on your own or cut off your testicles and ask for directions.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 10 2019, @03:41AM (2 children)
Well, that makes two of us. I grew up on reading maps. I had some frustrating times when I discovered how many mapmakers have (had?) their own atlases, and that they didn't all stick to the same color scheme and legends. Don't much like Universal or American maps, love Rand McNally. Other lesser known map makers who stick to Rand McNally style are good.
A map CAN get you into trouble, especially if it's five years old, or more. Some town in Florida tore up a street, and RM didn't show that, so I turned down a wrong street, and couldn't figure out where I was at until I found someone to talk to. A town in New Jersey renamed a highway, and caused me some frustration. And, of course new construction doesn't show up for a year or so. Still, those little snafus leave me safer than driving around with my nose to a screen.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday November 11 2019, @12:12AM
Thirded. When I started driving truck, consumer GPS didn't even exist yet. Well, that's not technically true, most GPS receivers looked like this:
http://retro-gps.info/Magellan/index.html [retro-gps.info]
Expensive, bulky, not very practical, and you still had to be able to read a map to use one.
I have a friend who cannot even find her home without GPS (she's also the scariest driver I ever rode with, and if you mention it she say "you didn't die did you?") Her phone died on her one day and she didn't have her car charger with her. I got a phone call from an unknown number that turned out to be her, asking if I could possibly find her and help her get home. She borrowed someones cell to call me. When she told me where she was (northside Safeway) I went and guided her to her house ten blocks away! She was literally in her own neighborhood and passes that shopping center every day going to and from work.
Oh, she's seventeen, it's her parents house, and she has lived there all her life.
And no, she's not a blonde and I can't find any good dumb redhead jokes.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @11:51AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwBoa-NbNL8 [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by Mer on Sunday November 10 2019, @06:52AM (1 child)
I do care a lot for turn by turn guidance actually. Having to visit up to 6 clients a day at places I've never been before in a european city (without grid pattern).
But I can already think of a workaround. You plot the course from a start and end address, the app generates the step instructions and you validate each step by pushing a button.
Shut up!, he explained.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday November 10 2019, @10:07AM
How many turns are we talking here? If it's half a dozen or less from a known location, I wouldn't even have a map app open.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 10 2019, @06:54AM (1 child)
Lemme guess... you did ask for directions, right?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday November 10 2019, @10:05AM
Nope. I just check a map and the address. I might temporarily misplace my destination but I've never been lost while driving. No, seriously, never. I always know which way's north within five or ten degrees (plenty for rough navigation) and which way the roads I've been driving on are from where I am now.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:27PM (3 children)
U.S. Navy Brings Back Celestial Navigation Over GPS Fears [soylentnews.org]
A destroyer collision every hour.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Funny) by fustakrakich on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:36PM
A destroyer collision every hour.
The stealth paint is working like a charm
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by anubi on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:51AM
I sure hope so. I feel every Navy ship should have star trackers similar to the ones on Apollo, as well as a LORAN like spread spectrum multi-transmitter pseudorandom sequence coding similar to GPS.
Spread spectrum so that time to travel can be accurately recovered. What I am looking for is a fraction of the wavelength of the carrier by phaselock techniques.
As far as I am concerned, our TV transmitters could be located in such a manner as to provide location via triangulation and time to travel of their carriers, which is already encoded in their spread spectrum transmission.
It is my belief that any rogue nation may at any time launch a ton of sand into orbit, and render space unusable for everyone.
From what I see, the big problem governments have is how to access the creativity of technical artisans while shielding them from the business leadership types that need their asses polished by their subordinates. The guys who destroy a corporate technical base often have helicopters waiting for them. Even the best of us seem to abandon our love of creative artistry and transform into handshaking political whores once we don and display the symbols of money and power.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:52AM
Anyone who doesn't have a plan for when their tech takes a massive shit has no business being in charge of anything, ever.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:01PM (1 child)
Just switch to GLONASS, would you? Both Samsung and Huawei support that in most of their devices.
Oh, and a story: Lost tourist finds fame after Iceland GPS mishap
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-35482537 [bbc.com]
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:12PM
It is nice that there are phones that support multiple positioning satellite constellations. But a scenario that knocks out GPS could also knock out GLONASS, Galileo, BeiDou, et al. I'm sure the U.S. is at the forefront of anti-satellite warfare, what with the USAF's little X-37B jaunts.
Of course, the scenario could also lead to a global thermonuclear war. GPS will be the last of your worries.
If not WW3, a solar storm could affect all the constellations equally, unless we have some new and very radiation tolerant hardware.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:01PM (9 children)
I remember dead reckoning my way around the city. Not always the most efficient, but you generally got where you were going.
On the roads, most folks would be fine doing their day to day stuff. Younger ones would spend some time getting lost as they developed some basic navigational skills (and learned to pay more attention) without maps is all.
Boats and Planes especially would have to dredge up some older skills and methods. Pretty sure those are still in place though, just not the primary way of doing things these days.
Playing Ingress would be challenging though.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 4, Interesting) by edIII on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:25PM (5 children)
There is one other time honored method too: Smell. McDonald's has a rather distinct flavor in the air, especially during morning hours when sausage egg McMuffins are emerging into existence like the great blessings they are. A trained nasal navigator can easily tell the difference between Del Taco, Taco Bell, and a taqeuria. Wet your finger, stick it in the air, and it's like a compass. Deep down, most can people navigate by landmarks like fast food restaurants.
You can have great navigational skills and still fuck up. In the middle of the night where everything looks the same, all it takes is a single fuck up on a round about and you've added 8 hours to trip by going 4 hours in the wrong direction. I figured that out because I saw a 1-mile-away-from-a-Cracker-Barrel sign and naturally reoriented myself.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 10 2019, @03:48AM (4 children)
I think that's the reason few American cities have roundabouts. I can't think of any outside of Mass and Texas - and only a couple in Texas.
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Sunday November 10 2019, @07:58PM (3 children)
Some parts of Indiana have gone roundabout crazy. Last I heard, in some parts they are trying replace all stop lights with roundabouts.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 11 2019, @02:38AM (2 children)
I'll be perfectly honest. Roundabouts always take me by surprise the first time I come to it. It's not a daily thing, they are unexpected, and they require something "different" on my part. Instead of stopping, then making a turn, I have to merge into traffic, while maintaining some minimal speed, then merge back out of traffic. It's not complicated, just unexpected. As a result, I can, and have, looked like a fool trying to figure out where I should be, and what I need to do. Those roundabouts with six (or more!) exit points are even worse. To make matters worse, some of them have statues and other decorations in them, obstructing your view across the roundabout. If you can just look across, and spot the sign you need to follow before you're in the roundabout, then it's not so bad.
Actually putting up a roundabout sign 1/2 mile before reaching it would be a great help. The driver's brain has an opportunity to process the information BEFORE he ̶g̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ disrupts the flow of traffic.
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Monday November 11 2019, @02:58PM (1 child)
Laughs at you in British.
Come to Swindon and try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) [wikipedia.org]
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 11 2019, @04:36PM
First, I have always declined driving anyplace where people drive on the wrong side of the road. Second, that thing could only have been dreamed up by a sadistic monster. And, only masochistic nutcases would venture into it. But, you'll have to upload a recording of you laughing in British. We could all use a chuckle. ;^)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:53PM (1 child)
Uptown is north.
That's all I need to know.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:26AM
Downtown is black, that's all whitey needs to know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 10 2019, @03:21AM
Just install a binnacle between the front seats of the car.
(Score: 4, Informative) by WizardFusion on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:09PM (1 child)
A lot of the farming will stop working. The tractors use GPS to get around the large fields and perform their tasks efficiently.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:29AM
They could get around a little less efficiently with human drivers. EVerything that uses GPS now can use human drivers later.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:52PM
Yes.
Ask a stupid question, get a very short answer.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:27AM (1 child)
Not that they're mutually exclusive, of course. But I am a map geek, and I have never found GPS particularly useful. On a blank piece of paper, I can draw almost all the US Interstate highway system from memory, plus a lot of other major roads.
In the 1990s, I gave this MS Streetview (I forget the exact name) a trial, and wow, was it bad. We've only known shortest path algorithms since the 1950s, but MS didn't use any. Best as I could tell, their method was to draw a straight line from source to destination, then pick the roads closest to that line. If that road was one of those lesser US highways that wastes a lot of the traveler's time on 5 and 10 mile jogs to the left and right, it would pick it anyway, even when there was a nearby major route that was both shorter and faster.
Google Maps is much better, but on a trip of some complexity, it's still easy to beat. Google Maps might give you 3 different routes, and while good, often, none of them are the very best.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 10 2019, @03:52AM
That sounds a lot like Household Mover's Guide. It maps the most direct route from Point A to Point B, and cares nothing about traffic, construction, up- and down-grades, tourist traps, or anything else.
(Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:58PM
It was the Flight KAL007 Disaster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 [wikipedia.org] that served as the impetus for making GPS available to the civilian population. Prior to that time (and for many years after during the transition to commercial availability of GPS receivers), countless billions of vehicle trips had been made without incident.
In the case of mobile GPS based traffic reporting, the technology hasn’t really offered very much in the way of time saving traffic avoidance except perhaps in the case of a really major accident that closes down a main thoroughfare. And even then, you have share the alternate routes with all the displaced traffic.
We are certainly better off having it (as an option), but it hasn’t been the boon to the civilian population that I thought it would be.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 10 2019, @01:43PM (1 child)
It seems likely that the system will eventually fail.
It would be good to have an occasional planned GPS holiday with the system off, just to prepare.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday November 11 2019, @12:54AM
I can see it now, endless streams of millennial's and whatever the next gen is called endlessly circling in search of avocado toast and home....
This is not as ridiculous as it sounds, in a post above I detail a former co-worker who literally cannot find the house she has lived in her entire life without a functioning GPS.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.