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posted by Fnord666 on Monday November 11 2019, @09:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the don't-believe-it dept.

Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956

Great apes pass a false-belief test, hinting at a theory of mind

Theory of mind is the recognition that others have mental states, just as you do. It is the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes, to acknowledge that their mental state—their beliefs, their perspectives, how their experiences have shaped them—differs from your own. And therefore that, when people act a certain way, they are responding not to an objective reality but to their own particular perceptions of that reality, which are likely not the same as yours.

False-belief understanding lies at the crux of this concept. It involves understanding when another person has a mistaken belief, and a prerequisite for that understanding is figuring out what the other person believes. And now there's some evidence that we're not the only species with it.

Humans possess this theory of mind, along with its all-important false-belief understanding. But it is still an open question whether humans alone possess it. Our closest relatives, the great apes—bonobos, chimpanzees, and orangutans—have exhibited theory of mind in some experiments.

But it is possible that these other primates achieved this result by reading others' behaviors instead of their minds. Now, Josep Call, who studies great apes as a means to determine how cognition evolves, gave the animals something called "the goggles test" and concluded that yes, they do have false-belief understanding.


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Monday November 11 2019, @09:08PM

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday November 11 2019, @09:08PM (#919080) Homepage
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmISd0v7AdM
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @09:38PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @09:38PM (#919100)

    All these "empathy" bullshit from that guy is ... disturbing. Get off the pill - it ain't the 90s and SN ain't no warehouse disco party.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:22PM (#919122)

      You are tearing me apart, Lisa!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:34AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:34AM (#919171)

      Yes, you are disturbed. There are professionals who can help you with that.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @01:35AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @01:35AM (#919183)

        A pity nobody can help Runaway anymore. He ran too far away already, beyond any help, he's a lost cause.

  • (Score: 2) by donkeyhotay on Monday November 11 2019, @10:03PM (5 children)

    by donkeyhotay (2540) on Monday November 11 2019, @10:03PM (#919116)

    An interesting experiment, but to extend the observation to conclude that apes have false-belief understanding is quite a reach. This is clickbaity.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:52PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:52PM (#919130)

      Runaway attempting to pass a Turing Test. I think he's cheating.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:06AM (#919153)

        I think he's cheating.

        Sure is. Runaway is mostly copying the khallow's false-beliefs during the test, except for the rare cases in which his own false-beliefs are stronger and he can't resist their urge. Though, neither of them are able to tell a belief from a false-belief.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:19AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:19AM (#919165)

      Please Mr/Ms. donkeyhotay we know you have the hots for donkeys, but them apes are smarter the asses I tell ya!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:34AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:34AM (#919172)

        I usually refrain from commenting when I'm stoned.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:47AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @12:47AM (#919176)

          Makes me terrible at phonetic reading, especially of things like "Don Quixote". Darn Runaway tilting windmills again.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:42PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 11 2019, @10:42PM (#919127)

    Even the orangutans?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:11AM (#919190)

      Dr. Zaius understood what apes with nuclear weapons are capable of.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by unhandyandy on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:16AM (2 children)

    by unhandyandy (4405) on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:16AM (#919192)

    This notion that there's a rigid hierarchy of consciousness in which humans are at the apex is obviously BS. Clearly advanced alien races have more sophisticated criteria according to which we don't qualify as having a theory of mind.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:30AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 12 2019, @02:30AM (#919196) Journal

      Well, actually having a theory of mind is not an issue. Having a mind (or lacking it thereof) rather is.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @05:46AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @05:46AM (#919259)

      "Clearly advanced alien races have..."

      Why go so far? Mice will do. Even dolphins.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @03:37AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @03:37AM (#919218)

    The earth is changing, I have noticed the leaves are acting weird too.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @03:51AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @03:51AM (#919223)

      What are you, Gaia?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:24AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:24AM (#919234)

        The squirrels are burying at least hundreds of acorns each day per squirrel. This level of activity is unprecedented.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:36AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:36AM (#919237)

          Various mythological characters are also swapping places between the heavens and the underworld. Ereshkigal gains the powers of fertility. What could it mean?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:53AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @04:53AM (#919247)

            Squirrels and leaves are real, your sky/volcano gods are not.

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