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posted by janrinok on Wednesday November 13 2019, @09:25PM   Printer-friendly
from the fun-of-growing-old dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

The net clinical benefit of anticoagulants for atrial fibrillation (AF) -- one of the most important causes of irregular heartbeats and a leading cause of stroke -- decreases with age, as the risk of death from other factors diminishes their benefit in older patients, according to a study led by researchers at UC San Francisco.

The multi-institutional study of nearly 15,000 AF patients found that the anticoagulant warfarin was not beneficial after age 87 and another, apixaban, after age 92. As a result, physicians should consider all mortality risks, such as cancer and end-stage kidney disease, when recommending anticoagulants to older adults with AF, the researchers said.

[...] "Many prior studies looking at the benefit of blood thinners found older adults benefit more than younger adults, but they narrowly focus on atrial fibrillation and strokes and don't account for all other health conditions affecting older adults," said lead author Sachin Shah, MD, MPH, assistant professor of medicine at UCSF. "Our study is the first to find that when taking these factors into consideration, anticoagulant benefit actually decreases with age."

Atrial fibrillation affects an estimated 2.2 million Americans, according to the National Stroke Association, and about 15 percent of people who have strokes have AF. The stroke association estimates that up to 80 percent of strokes among people with AF could have been prevented.

While patients age 75 and older are at higher risk for stroke and advised to use anticoagulants, there is little evidence of their net benefit in this population. Advancing age also increases the likelihood of death from non-AF causes, thereby limiting the benefit or harm from AF and anticoagulant treatment.

Journal Reference:

Sachin J. Shah, Daniel E. Singer, Margaret C. Fang, Kristi Reynolds, Alan S. Go, Mark H. Eckman. Net Clinical Benefit of Oral Anticoagulation Among Older Adults With Atrial Fibrillation. Circulation: Cardiovascular Quality and Outcomes, 2019; 12 (11) DOI: 10.1161/CIRCOUTCOMES.119.006212


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  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:14PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:14PM (#920027)

    Let's spend our limited resources on saving the young'uns, from malaria, cholera, measles, etc.

    Fuck you, boomers.

    Signed, a gen x-er.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:57PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:57PM (#920052)

      You too will be old soon. OK with that? I'd rather have some help.
      And help save the young'uns from malaria, cholera, measles, etc.
      There's enough resources.
      Signed, a different gen-xer.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:16AM (3 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:16AM (#920113) Journal
        WTF. Back in the 70s, baby boomers were born in the decade after WW2 - 1945 - 1954. There was an echo a couple of decades later when the boomers had their own kids. Now boomer applies to anyone born between 1945 and 1980. And everyone is homogeneous - easy access to everything, everything was cheap, nobody had challenges.

        Another bunch of fiction - plenty of those who are now classified as boomers experienced the same problems the latest generation complains about, but without either the safety net or the acceptance that failure might not be a moral failing.

        Revisionism is strong with tho "ok boomer" generation. Every generation has its challenges. People leading lives of quiet desperation were par for the course. It's only now that people have easy access to platforms where they can broadcast their misery that is seems worse, but it's not.

        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:31AM (#920128)

          A boomer.

          source: been hanging out in some youngin channels. If you're over 20-something you're considered a boomer now. I'm a post '80 and getting called that :)

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:34PM (#920424)

          Barbara (tom) Hudson CHEMICALLY CASTRATED itself with estrogen since you failed as a man lol! You also FAIL as a "woman" you NEUTERED delusional freakazoid! What is is like knowing you are a living mockery. A parody of both a 'woman' or a man? You know that. Everyone knows it about you "TraNsTeSticLe" hohohohoho. Barbara Hudson is a twistoid mental case deluding itself it is a REAL woman. Clue: You will never EVER be able to pass a DNA test due to the fact you do not, nor did you ever, possess female mitochondrial material you crackpot weirdo. It isn't logical to attempt to "fix" bodyparts that work with no issues. You had a working (extremely small) penis and balls you sawed off with estrogen hahahahaha!

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:37PM (#920426)

          Barbara (tom) Hudson CHEMICALLY CASTRATED itself with estrogen since you failed as a man lol! You also FAIL as a "woman" you NEUTERED delusional freakazoid! What is is like knowing you are a living mockery? A parody of both a 'woman' or a man! You know that. Everyone knows it about you "TraNsTeSticLe" hohohohoho. Barbara Hudson is a twistoid mental case deluding itself it is a REAL woman. Clue: You will never EVER be able to pass a DNA test due to the fact you do not, nor did you ever, possess female mitochondrial material you crackpot weirdo. It isn't logical to attempt to "fix" bodyparts that work with no issues. You had a working (extremely small) penis and balls you sawed off with estrogen hahahaha!

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:19PM (4 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:19PM (#920033)

    I don't know what's weirder.

    1) Space missions, cancer cures, whatever end after I do
    2) This year I seem to have gone from losing 1 friend a year to 2.

    To #1 I say, yay for planning ahead and getting stuff done
    To #2 I say, this growing old is not what it's cracked up to be.

    For you "ok boomer"s out there, just wait until NASA launches something, you do the math, and damned if your life insurance doesn't give you a 50/50 chance of being dead before it gets there. It's fucking sobering, is what it is.

    --
    My ducks are not in a row. I don't know where some of them are, and I'm pretty sure one of them is a turkey.
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:31PM (#920039)

      You are assigned to the b-ark. All expenses are paid for. Your accomodation is class tripple a, with Adidas trainers.

      Bring some soup.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:33PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:33PM (#920040) Journal

      That gives me 26 years

      Oh, well, the bright side of this, one can always take less than what's given (grin, only serious)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by captain normal on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:50PM

      by captain normal (2205) on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:50PM (#920050)

      Getting old ain't for wussies.

      --
      When life isn't going right, go left.
    • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:59PM

      by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:59PM (#920054) Journal

      Meh, the boomers are learning (have learned) that everyone gets older sooner or later and that it's hard to trust no one over 30 when all the boomers are over 30.
      The x'ers and millennials will learn too.
      And as with all generations, almost certainly too late.

      --
      This sig for rent.
  • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday November 14 2019, @12:21AM (4 children)

    by deimtee (3272) on Thursday November 14 2019, @12:21AM (#920085) Journal

    So is the takeaway from this is "you old fuckers are going to die of something anyway, so it's a waste of time preventing strokes" ?

    --
    If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @12:56AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @12:56AM (#920102)

      Whatever kills me, what I ask is that get it done.

      I flat don't want to be a burden.

      The most insidious thing about strokes is leaving people helpless as a baby, but not dead.

      And I find myself of the mindset of "nurses who kill" as being quite compassionate. And also bitter that the system forbids me from keeping a stash of "seconal" for a one-time personal use. There may come a time when we know the party is over, and it's time to go home.

      I am thankful that I am allowed to post what I just said anonymously.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:23AM (2 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:23AM (#920119) Journal
        That's why we have advanced medical directives. Did mine several years ago, and here even a court can't overrule my decisions. When things become unacceptable, all care will be withdrawn except for opiates - lots of opiates. No water, no food, no consciousness. One of the criteria for triggering it is I no longer recognize people I used to know. Fuck hanging around as a demented pod person drooling and shitting myself.
        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @06:13AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @06:13AM (#920223)

          So - you're leaving us around 2010? It's been real, and it's been fun, but it ain't been real fun.

          *checks calendar*

          I didn't realize opiates would keep you alive so long.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:32PM (#920422)

          Barbara (tom) Hudson CHEMICALLY CASTRATED itself with estrogen since you failed as a man lol! You also FAIL as a "woman" you NEUTERED delusional freakazoid! What is is like knowing you are a living mockery. A parody of both a 'woman' or a man? You know that. Everyone knows it about you "TraNsTeSticLe" hohohohoho. Barbara Hudson is a twistoid mental case deluding itself it is a REAL woman. Clue: You will never EVER be able to pass a DNA test due to the fact you do not, nor did you ever, possess female mitochondrial material you crackpot weirdo. It isn't logical to attempt to "fix" bodyparts that work with no issues. You had a working (extremely small) penis and balls you sawed off with estrogen hahahaha!

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:06AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:06AM (#920104)

    Hopefully reason will prevail over Big Pharma in the statin fiasco too. (Not holding my breath - but it's coming.)
    From the webpage https://chriskresser.com/the-truth-about-statin-drugs/ [chriskresser.com] (There are many others.)
    1. Statin drugs do not reduce the risk of death in 95% of the population, including healthy men with no pre-existing heart disease, women of any age, and the elderly.
    2. Statin drugs do reduce mortality for young and middle-aged men with pre-existing heart disease, but the benefit is small and not without significant adverse effects, risks and costs.
    3. Aspirin works just as well as statins do for preventing heart disease, and is 20 times more cost effective.

    The studies that get the $attention$ look at a narrow band of preventing cardiovascular disease but conveniently overlook data pointing to the morbidity rate as unchanged (you just die of some other heart related problem).

    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:25AM (7 children)

      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:25AM (#920120) Journal
      Saying aspirin is as effective is a bit misleading - neither statins nor aspirin are effective, and I don't think doctors recommend it any more (if yours still does, you might want a second opinion).
      --
      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @07:54AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @07:54AM (#920247)

        What if I eat aspirins just because I like the taste?

        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:16PM (1 child)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday November 14 2019, @01:16PM (#920319) Journal
          I knew someone who did that. Teeth fell out and they almost died. Same as people who overdosed on Benton because they liked the taste and ended up bombed on the codeine (back in the 70s).
          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:25PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:25PM (#920417)

            We all know someone (you) that CHEMICALLY CASTRATED itself with estrogen since you failed as a man lol! You also FAIL as a "woman" you NEUTERED delusional freakazoid! What is is like knowing you are a living mockery. A parody of both a 'woman' or a man? You know that. Everyone knows it about you "TraNsTeSticLe" hohohohoho. Barbara Hudson is a twistoid mental case deluding itself it is a REAL woman. Clue: You will never EVER be able to pass a DNA test due to the fact you do not, nor did you ever, possess female mitochondrial material you crackpot weirdo.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by choose another one on Thursday November 14 2019, @04:43PM (2 children)

        by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 14 2019, @04:43PM (#920400)

        Aspirin and other similar anti-platelets are definitely effective, proven, clinical evidence - almost as good as warfarin in some trials.

        Problem is, exactly the same as warfarin, anti-platelet or anti-coagulation stops clots and therefore increases bleeding risk - by design.

        As you get older you get more fragile generally, the bleeding risk increases, if bleeding does start it's harder to stop (surgical intervention more risky) and eventually the risk equates to the clotting risk meaning it isn't worth taking it.

        I have a serious clotting disorder, I'm on warfarin, for good, as I get older the bleeding risk will increase, things that wouldn't kill others will kill me (a fall, bump on the head, minor car accident -> internal bleeding, etc.). Somewhere I read (although I have failed to chase down the reference) that the most common cause of death for patients with my condition is in fact cerebral haemorrhage. Why? - because we're all on warfarin, and it works so we don't tend to die of clots (or not as much as we would without it) - the warfarin just kills us instead.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @05:29PM (#920420)

        So it's true you are a trantesticle then https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=34619&page=1&cid=920417#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? You are severely insane. Seriously. You had working penis, testicles but sadly a defective brain. It is not logical to try to "fix" parts that work you nutcase.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @06:17AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @06:17AM (#920224)

    If you're twenty, have a problem and seek treatment, the treatment almost certainly will extend your life by years.

    If you're 90, have a problem and seek treatment, the treatment has little chance of extending your life for years. Dude, it's time to get your ticket punched, get on the train, and go home.

    That from a "senior citizen".

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by chewbacon on Thursday November 14 2019, @02:13PM

    by chewbacon (1032) on Thursday November 14 2019, @02:13PM (#920330)

    ...if you live long enough. There’s more than antiarrhythmics we can throw about it now, such as ablation and reduce the risk of stroke with left atrial appendage closure. But antiarrythmics have their own issues, ablation doesn’t treat the causes of afib (which we are still learning about), and left atrial appendage closure doesn’t do anything from a rhythm management perspective. Ablation may isolate triggers of afib, but doesn’t treat valve failure, hypertension, or just getting old. Many electrophysiogists won’t ablate people in such an advanced age cited above.

    And we’ve known for some time now that warfarin is more hazardous than novel agents. You can see the data in this study suggest that.

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