https://decrypt.co/11947/moscow-bans-sale-of-gadgets-without-russian-made-software
The potential to integrate mass surveillance into the common Internet infrastructure has analysts worried. A booming blackmarket for foreign smartphones seems likely.
A law requiring that foreign-made consumer-electronic devices must be pre-installed with Russian-made software was passed by Russia's lower house of parliament on Thursday. It covers smartphones, computers and smart televisions, and will go into effect in July, 2020.
The aim of the new legislation is to promote Russian technology, according to its proponents. But some fear that making Russian-made apps mandatory will provide a backdoor for surveillance. Critics also claim that this promotes technologically inferior software, and might cause international manufacturers to pull out of the Russian market.
[...] On Reddit, users expressed concerns about the quality of the Russian alternatives, in comparison to international brands such as Windows and Google.
"I'm sure you meant Gugal, comrade. You no use Gugal, you go to Gulag," quipped one Redditor.
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The Helsinki Times reports that Finland's Minister of Finance suggested during a recent foreign policy speech that Finland and the EU could pursue self-sufficiency in computing, in particular to avoid over dependence on just a handful of companies. She pointed out that this overreliance on said companies has become so severe that company policy has already started to override existing relevant legislation. The topic had earlier been brought up by President Sauli Niinistö. So far, though, not even Russia has made progress in that direction despite over a decade passing since announcing plans.
"Cyber self-sufficiency, in practical terms, could mean having a European operating system and web browser. The EU could also function as a provider of certificates," she envisioned in a foreign and security policy speech in Helsinki on Wednesday, 26 February.
Previously:
Moscow Bans Sale of Gadgets Without Russian-Made Software
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday November 23 2019, @04:25PM (5 children)
Not open source, russian made.
Seems like defining what 'russian' is is going to start getting more and more important, or is that just synonymous with putin at this point?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:28PM (3 children)
Make Mother Russia Great Again?
Seriously speaking - we sell a global product, including Russian translations and a few Russian sales - approximately 0.5% at last check. Now, our gadget with USian made software in it isn't really the point for us, the point is to sell our disposables, so if Putin wants to pay Russian coders to spend a couple of man-years developing software for this device, have at it: our software development time is 200x more efficient due to the broader global market we sell it into... and, if your people still want to buy our disposable product that goes with it, that's where 90% of our revenue comes from anyway - we lose 0.05% of our overall revenue stream to the Russian gadget software, and Russia gets a software maintenance burden 200x higher than ours.
Makes about as much sense as a US-Mexico border wall, or a Chinese trade war.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by legont on Saturday November 23 2019, @07:05PM (1 child)
I'd have to read the law is question - which I don't want to - but perhaps it is similar to automotive rules. Almost no foreign built cars are sold in Russia. Instead most manufacturers have assembly plants on Russian territory. While say Hondas are missing, the diversity is higher than in the US. They use similar strategy for many other expensive items and perhaps decided to try to corner software as well. Let's see...
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday November 23 2019, @08:11PM
It's such a different animal, the economics are very alien...
The Tesla Cybertruck is inside the US "pickup truck" firewall of a 25% import tariff, no doubt part of why it's being pursued.
Our product we sell to Russia isn't a "consumer gadget" and therefore probably isn't targeted, but... if they do start into our turf they'll just be losing our tech, which means their hospitals will be that much less capable of performing safe effective operations on the various things we provide. They can develop similar tech domestically, but that takes time and money which they're not likely to spend...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday November 24 2019, @04:21PM
People interested in control are often completely uninterested in efficiency until they get to the rotating knives section of the apartment complex design.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Saturday November 23 2019, @07:24PM
Probably companies like Yandex which are not even Russian owned, but merely crewed by Russian slaves. Colonialism at its finest.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday November 23 2019, @04:26PM (3 children)
They're preloaded with Russian software.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @08:03PM (1 child)
nah they kicked soros out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @02:49PM
You misspelled Mercer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @11:43PM
Nyet. It's Ukrainian software.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Saturday November 23 2019, @04:26PM
which has the resources to pull this off, this will end badly for the average Russian.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday November 23 2019, @05:01PM
Seeing how it's not specifying "only" Russian software... Or maybe Google can transfer the calculator app's copyrights to some Russian subsidiary and keep everything open source just as it is?
compiling...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by soylentnewsinator on Saturday November 23 2019, @05:02PM (2 children)
I agree the story is important, but we're seriously quoting Reddit now? And tired Soviet jokes at that?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @07:28PM (1 child)
Says the username running with a terminator pun? You are a prime example of a reddit user, probably didn't stick around cause there wasn't enough "fake newwwwz" circle jerking and reality triggers you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:04AM
Bless your heart.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @05:40PM
Software uses you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @05:58PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:01PM
I say we send our best negotiator, Major T.J. Kong [wikipedia.org] to deliver a gift in advance of such discussions.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:16PM (7 children)
"The potential to integrate mass surveillance into the common Internet infrastructure has analysts worried."
As apposed to how it is now in the west?
If "analysts" have something to say about the state of surveillance in Russia, perhaps they should compare it to the state of surveillance in the U.S. ? That comparison was made every single night on the news during the entire 1980's. They used to point it out and say: "Look how unfree people are over there! They are spied on every waking hour!" Dozens of movies were made about it.
As somebody who remembers the cold war, the current state of surveillance in the U.S. would have made the Stasi and the KGB envious in the extreme. And your going to tell me analysts are worried about the state of privacy... Over there? I think you are going to need to substantiate that.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:50PM (5 children)
Like the US mandating US-only electronics, amirite? I find it interesting how so many here strain to make this about the US.
Show us on the doll where the Reagan-era propaganda touched you.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @07:31PM (2 children)
Right in the economics :(
Your turn, show us with the doll how the doctor dropped you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:55AM (1 child)
Economics? Even Russia is better off economically than when the USSR fell apart.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:28PM
Russia is basically USSR2.0 at this point. We'll see where it goes after mr Pi finally dies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @10:21PM (1 child)
Google and Apple have a monopoly on smartphone hardware and software. They are both part of PRISM and likely other US government surveillance programs.
And, yes - the US government effectively did all they could to prevent Huawei from being able to compete in the US market.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 25 2019, @10:12AM
Doesn't satisfy the definition of monopoly since you have at least two parties right there. You also have a number of other companies in the mix, mostly not in the US. Even if you are speaking of the technical spot monopolies of patents and other IP, those other companies have plenty of their own IP. And such monopolies never prevent someone from competing in the smartphone market nor allow one to. They're merely a modest market advantage on their own.
So? That remains a far cry from the Russian move. For example, it still allows competition from other Chinese manufacturers, as well as the rest of the Far East Asia and Europe to compete. And it doesn't cover all electronics.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @11:54PM
And given the way many American celebrities have been cozying up to Communist leaders and the way our government has been cozying up to both communist and fascist policies our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents fought and died to keep from coming to our lands... Well.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:19PM (1 child)
So, mandatory Russian-made apps will provide a backdoor for surveillance... but Chinese or India made apps don't provide back doors for surveillance?
Sorry, I don't see what is so horribly wrong about this ban except such a simplistic mandate would be quite insufficient. Around here I'd love to see some incentives to get more USA made software or hardware out there instead of being dependent on foreign countries. But accomplishing such a goal would require a much more complicated incentive to ensure companies do more than provide a token gesture to meet the letter of a law.
Back doors are a separate issue that have more do to about the lack of strict privacy laws and enforcement.
Low quality software? Well, then time to start investing money in training and education for your own citizens again. That is kind of the point.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday November 24 2019, @01:29AM
It's going to hurt Russian people, for starters. China got away with one-sided trade restrictions because it was building up its industrial base, oriented towards massive exports to the developed world. Russia has already had plenty of opportunity to grow competitive industry. It instead squandered that opportunity on decades of political economics.
There's not much point to trying to get rid of foreign dependencies when you're not going to replace those dependencies with something equivalent. It's a net crippling of your society instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @06:43PM (2 children)
You can argue that this is no different than what the U.S. is now doing in terms of trying to ban products from Huwai. But we can still sell products to them (Microsoft Windows).
It's just governments trying to make life easier for their companies by giving them more competing customers to provide service to but providing their customers with less competing companies to choose from. This is good for companies that want to make more money in exchange for providing an inferior product, since they have less competition/fewer companies to compete with, but it's bad for the consumer who has fewer competing companies to choose from. The people that suffer are the people but the government doesn't really care much about them.
The way to encourage your country to make better products is to make them compete with everyone else instead of trying to shelter them. What helped America create better products in the past is the fact that the U.S. government historically didn't do much to protect their companies from competition while other countries kept trying to pass protectionist laws. Now that's changing and the end loser is the consumer whom the government cares least about.
Perhaps one can search for import substation vs export promotion
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23 2019, @07:02PM (1 child)
Spoken like an armchair pundit.
Here is what China did and seems to work:
Protect your fledgling companies from outside competitors by laws, red tape, or other questionable practices . Let them iterate, grow and find what works. Let them compete globally while still protecting the home market until your local companies have it locked in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:33PM
Iterate, grow? Since those “anti-sanction” laws passed we eat shittier food that costs more and more. It just doesn't work. Why would a company spend resources on any improvement when you can pocket all the money, produce shit that everyone will have to buy anyway, and as a bonus you get to move your money quickly outside Russia before government/police/FSB mafia got your money and bussiness?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by corey on Saturday November 23 2019, @09:49PM (4 children)
This is a good way to form a state run DDOS botnet. Bit if code in each app to respond to the trigger and the target. Bang, 10m devices all go at once.
(Score: 2) by corey on Saturday November 23 2019, @09:56PM (3 children)
Having said that, I reckon their stated reason is quite reasonable. They want too reduce reliance on foreign software and boost their own software engineering capability. I can see lots of reasons why they would want to do that. It's much more plausible than what we're all thinking here.
Maybe surveillance is a secondary mission.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by khallow on Sunday November 24 2019, @01:18AM (2 children)
Reasonable for who? It's not reasonable for the end-user who has to accept a shoddy product or nothing at all because someone cared more about getting a market advantage than in the welfare of their citizens. And Putin is a spook. It's not even remotely a stretch to wonder what oppression this law will lead to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @01:45AM (1 child)
The funny thing is it wouldn't surprise me if those that pass these anticompetitive laws use the very foreign products that they themselves prohibit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:36PM
They already do. Telegram was supposed to be banned, except they can't effectively enforce it, and everyone in a fucking State Duma use it anyway, lol.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @02:19AM
on my computer, I would just take it to get repaired at Best Buy.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday November 24 2019, @02:55AM
"users expressed concerns about the quality of the Russian alternatives, in comparison to international brands such as Windows"
In the words of Steve Martin (paraphrased, "Excuuuuuse...me?"
Since when is Windows a 'quality' product?
A product marketed well that has sucked the life out of computers everywhere and created an entire industry of encrypting peoples harddrives for $$$? That's what is called QUALITY?
I'll stick with my 'toy operating system', Linux, spank you very much!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by jb on Sunday November 24 2019, @04:34AM (1 child)
We must congratulate the Russians on their ingenuity.
Until reading this, I did not think it was even possible to write software of lower quality than Windows.
If indeed they have succeeded in creating even worse software than Windows, then that is a substantial achievement of malicious engineering, which probably deserves some sort of medal or other (or at least its own entry in the Guiness Book of Records).
Unless of course "quality" is a mis-translation of "bugginess", or "insecurity" or "unreliability" or "counter-intuitiveness" or "amount of code dedicated to spying on users" or some such thing...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24 2019, @12:39PM
Easy: let students (or ex-Delphi programmers) do all the work for food, pocket the money. Bribe whoever necessary with a part of that money. Done.