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posted by chromas on Wednesday December 04 2019, @03:51PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the Meatslap! dept.

Plant-based burgers are "ultra-processed" like dog food, meat-backed ads say

A public-relations firm backed by meat producers has unleashed a savage marketing campaign that claims plant-based meat alternatives are unhealthy, "ultra-processed imitations" similar to dog food.

The campaign rolled out in recent weeks from the industry-funded firm Center for Consumer Freedom, according to The New York Times. So far, it has included full-page ads and opinion pieces in mainstream newspapers, including The New York Times, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal. All the marketing material raises health concerns about trendy meat alternatives, such as the Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger.

One ad posed the question "What's hiding in your plant-based meat?" Another directed readers to take the quiz "Veggie Burger or Dog Food?"

In an op-ed, the managing director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, Will Coggin, labeled meat alternatives as "ultra-processed" foods and noted that a recent study led by the researchers at the National Institutes of Health linked ultra-processed foods to weight gain.

The negative marketing campaign comes amid soaring popularity of meat alternatives, which threaten to slice into the meat market's sales and profits. In recent months, big players in the meat industry had tried a different—some might say hypocritical—tactic to compete with the new comers—that is, they released their own lines of meat alternatives. Now, the industry wants consumers to think such alternatives are unhealthy.

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Original Submission

Related Stories

Cargill, Bill Gates, Richard Branson Backed Memphis Meats Expects Meat From Cells in Stores by 2021 39 comments

Submitted via IRC for takyon

Cargill Inc., one of the largest global agricultural companies, has joined Bill Gates and other business giants to invest in a nascent technology to make meat from self-producing animal cells amid rising consumer demand for protein that's less reliant on feed, land and water.

Memphis Meats, which produces beef, chicken and duck directly from animal cells without raising and slaughtering livestock or poultry, raised $17 million from investors including Cargill, Gates and billionaire Richard Branson, according to a statement Tuesday on the San Francisco-based startup's website. The fundraising round was led by venture-capital firm DFJ, which has previously backed several social-minded retail startups.

They made the first ever chicken and duck meat that were produced without the animals.

The company expects to have a product in stores by 2021.

"They're the leader in clean meat. There's no one else that far along," says venture capitalist Steve Jurvetson, whose firm led Memphis Meats' recent $17 million Series A. Before he met Valeti in 2016, Jurvetson spent almost five years researching lab-grown meat and meat alternatives, believing the market was set to explode. "They're the only one that convinced me they can get to a price point and a scale that would make a difference in the industry," he says.

Cargill is the largest privately held corporation in the United States in terms of revenue ($109.7 billion in 2017).

Source: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/10/cargill-bill-gates-richard-branson-backed-memphis-meats-expects-meat-from-cells-in-stores-by-2021.html

Previously: Lab-Grown Chicken (and Duck) Could be on the Menu in 4 Years

Related: Lab-grown meat would 'cut emissions and save energy'
Producing Beef has the Greatest Impact on the Environment Compared to Other Animal Based Foods
Real Vegan Cheese: Coming From a Yeast to You
Would You Try Silicon Valley's Bloody Plant Burger(s)?
Lab-Grown Pork Closer to Reality


Original Submission

U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat" 80 comments

The U.S. Cattlemen's Association has asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture to develop an official definition for terms like "meat" and "beef", as plant-based alternatives to meats continue to grow in popularity and lab-grown/cultured meat may be coming soon:

Companies like Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat are combining plant-based ingredients and science, rather than animals, to create fake-meat burgers and other products that taste like the real thing.

Now U.S. Cattlemen's Association is looking to draw a line in the sand. The association launched what could be the first salvo in a long battle against plant-based foods. Earlier this month, the association filed a 15-page petition with the U.S. Department of Agriculture calling for an official definition for the term "beef," and more broadly, "meat."

"While at this time alternative protein sources are not a direct threat to the beef industry, we do see improper labeling of these products as misleading," said Lia Biondo, the association's policy and outreach director. "Our goal is to head off the problem before it becomes a larger issue."

[...] While these foods are commonly dubbed "fake meat," there's a little more to the meat-substitute market than that. The Good Food Institute, which advocates a sustainable food supply, breaks it down into two categories: clean meat and plant-based meat. Clean meat refers to "meat" grown in a lab from a small amount of animal stem cells. This kind of meat isn't on the market yet, but it's in development. Plant-based meat is anything that mimics traditional meat but is made mainly using plant ingredients.

Here's an idea: define "meat" for the Cattlemen's Association, then tax it with an exemption for "lab-grown meat".

Related: Lab-Grown Pork Closer to Reality
Lab-Grown Chicken (and Duck) Could be on the Menu in 4 Years
Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers
Cargill, Bill Gates, Richard Branson Backed Memphis Meats Expects Meat From Cells in Stores by 2021
Meat Tax Proposed for Sake of Human and Environmental Health.


Original Submission

Regulation Coming to Lab-Grown Meat 25 comments

Don't listen to Big Cattle — lab-grown meat should still be called "meat"

Lab-grown meat is on its way, and the government is trying to figure out how to regulate it. This week, the US House of Representatives [pdf] released a draft spending bill that proposes that the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulate lab-grown meat and figure out how it should be labeled — which is a contentious topic since Big Cattle doesn't want it to be called "meat." Regulation is important, and there's plenty more to learn, but the USDA shouldn't be the only one regulating. And when the product comes to market, yes, it should be called "meat."

Traditional meat, of course, comes from animals that are raised and slaughtered. Lab-grown meat (also called "in-vitro meat," "cultured meat," or "clean meat") is made from animal stem cells grown in a lab. But because the stem cells are typically fed with a serum derived from the blood of calf fetuses, the product uses animal products and isn't vegan. Still, the pitch for lab-grown meat is that it saves animals and also helps the environment because lab-grown meat doesn't take much land or energy to grow. Plus, lab-grown meat doesn't directly create methane emissions, while methane emissions from cows accounted for 16 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2015.

Because of the way that government agencies work, it hasn't even been clear who should regulate lab meat. The USDA traditionally regulates meat, while the US Food and Drug Administration regulates food safety and additives. The proposal that the USDA be in charge of regulation is in line with what the [pdf] National Cattlemen's Beef Association wanted, but some lab-meat advocates fear that USDA will be biased against them in favor of traditional meat. If the USDA will be regulating lab meat, it should at least collaborate with the FDA. There are no slaughterhouses for the USDA to inspect anyway, and the FDA has already been regulating food technology, like the genetically engineered salmon it approved. It makes the most sense for the two to work together.

Previously: U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat"

Related: Lab-Grown Chicken (and Duck) Could be on the Menu in 4 Years
Cargill, Bill Gates, Richard Branson Backed Memphis Meats Expects Meat From Cells in Stores by 2021
'Soylent' Dawkins? Atheist Mulls 'Taboo Against Cannibalism' Ending as Lab-Grown Meat Improves


Original Submission

FDA May Force Rebranding of Soy, Almond, et al. "Milks" 76 comments

Soon, your soy milk may not be called 'milk'

Soy and almond drinks that bill themselves as "milk" may need to consider alternative language after a top regulator suggested the agency may start cracking down on use of the term.

The Food and Drug Administration signaled plans to start enforcing a federal standard that defines "milk" as coming from the "milking of one or more healthy cows." That would be a change for the agency, which has not aggressively gone after the proliferation of plant-based drinks labeled as "milk."

FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb talked about the plans this week, noting there are hundreds of federal "standards of identity" spelling out how foods with various names need to be manufactured.

"The question becomes, have we been enforcing our own standard of identity," Gottlieb said about "milk" at the Politico event Tuesday. "The answer is probably not."


Original Submission

FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat" 14 comments

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved soy leghemoglobin as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) for human consumption:

Last August, documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request revealed that the FDA hadn't stomached the company's previous GRAS application. The agency concluded that soy leghemoglobin—a protein found in the roots of soybean plants that Impossible Foods harvests from genetically engineered yeast and uses to simulate the taste and bloodiness of meat—had not been adequately tested for safety.

In the application, Impossible Foods argued that the iron-containing protein is equivalent to hemoglobin, an oxygen-carrying protein in red blood cells and commonly consumed in meat. Thus, the protein was safe, the company concluded. It went as far as conducting studies in rats to back up the claim. But the FDA noted that soy leghemoglobin had never been used as an additive before, and the organization wanted data showing that the protein was safe and not an allergen specifically for humans.

[...] At the time, the decision was a searing blow to Impossible Foods, which up until then had fired up the appetites of investors and top chefs alike and savored glowing publicity. Since the company's founding in 2011, big names such as Bill Gates and Google Ventures served up more than $250 million in startup funds, and the impossible patty sizzled on the menus of such high-end restaurants as Momofuku Nishi in New York and Jardinière in San Francisco. The soy leghemoglobin was a big part of that hype, with the company touting it as its "secret sauce."

But the FDA's gut check didn't knock Impossible Foods off the market; it just left a bad taste. In fact, the company wasn't even required to submit its GRAS application to begin with due to the controversial way in which the FDA oversees food additives and GRAS designations. Under the 1938 Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act and the 1958 Food Additives Amendment, the FDA allows food companies and their hired consultants to internally test and determine a GRAS designation of a potential new additive all on their own. They can start using it without getting approval from the FDA or even notifying the agency. The FDA only steps in after the fact if problems arise.

Impossible Foods' FAQ says "the heme molecule in plant-based heme is atom-for-atom identical to the heme molecule found in meat". Heme is a component of soy leghemoglobin consisting of an iron atom bound in a porphyrin ring.

Meanwhile, the FDA and U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) are continuing to fight over which agency will have jurisdiction over "cultured meat" (i.e. lab-grown animal cells for human consumption):

Missouri Regulates Use of the Word "Meat" by Food Producers 37 comments

Missouri has prohibited producers of meat alternatives, such as lab-grown/cultured meat and plant-based fake meats, from using the term "meat" to describe products not derived from harvested livestock or poultry:

On Tuesday, Missouri becomes the first state in the country to have a law on the books that prohibits food makers to use the word "meat" to refer to anything other than animal flesh. This takes aim at manufacturers of what has been dubbed fake or non-traditional meat. Clean meat -- also known as lab-grown meat -- is made of cultured animal tissue cells, while plant-based meat is generally from ingredients such as soy, tempeh and seitan.

The state law forbids "misrepresenting a product as meat that is not derived from harvested production livestock or poultry." Violators may be fined $1,000 and imprisoned for a year.

[...] The Missouri Cattlemen's Association, which worked to get the state law passed, has cited shopper confusion and protecting local ranchers as reasons for the legislation. "The big issue was marketing with integrity and...consumers knowing what they're getting," said Missouri Cattlemen's Association spokesman Mike Deering. "There's so much unknown about this."

Turtle Island Foods, which makes "Tofurky", has sued the state:

Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants 58 comments

Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1984

Meatless 'Beyond Burgers' come to Carl's Jr. restaurants

The competition in lab-made veggie burgers is heating up. Beyond Meat has brought its burgers to more than 1,000 Carl's Jr. locations in the US, marking its Beyond's largest restaurant deal to date. Order a $6.29 Beyond Famous Star and you can eat a vegetarian (sorry vegans, there's American cheese) burg that tastes much like its conventional beef counterparts. You can also pay $2 to add a Beyond patty to other burgers on the menu. [...] You can already eat Impossible burgers of various sizes at White Castle, Hopdoddy, [and] Umami Burger

The veggie burgers won't be available at Hardee's (a nearly identical fast food chain operated by the same parent company). Sorry, "flexitarians".

Big Beef Prepares For Battle, As Interest Grows In Plant-Based And Lab-Grown Meats

The U.S. meat industry is gigantic, with roughly $200 billion a year in sales, and getting larger. But the industry faces emerging threats on two fronts: plant-based meat substitutes and actual meat grown in labs. Plant-based meat substitutes are a lot more, well, meaty than they used to be. They sear on the grill and even "bleed." They look, taste and feel in the mouth a lot like meat. Savannah Blevin, a server at Charlie Hooper's, an old-school bar and grill in Kansas City, Mo., says the vegetarian Impossible Burgers on the menu are popular with the meat-eating crowd. "I had a vegetarian actually turn it away, because it reminded them so much of meat, they sent it back," says Blevins. "It's delicious," she adds.

The industry that makes these products is taking off, growing 20 percent a year. "Business is booming," says Todd Boyman, co-founder of food company Hungry Planet. "We just can't keep up. We're actually having to expand our production facilities to keep up with the demand that's out there for this type of food."

[...] The meat industry is focused on shaping the regulatory environment for its new competitors, taking into account lessons learned from the rise of plant-based milks.

Previously: Would You Try Silicon Valley's Bloody Plant Burger(s)?
Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers
Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat"

Related: U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat"
Missouri Regulates Use of the Word "Meat" by Food Producers


Original Submission

Beef Trimmings Dubbed 'Pink SLIME' Can Now be Labelled 'Ground Beef' 55 comments

https://newfoodeconomy.org/bpi-pink-slime-ground-beef-usda-reclassifed/

Beef Products Inc. (BPI), the South Dakota-based meat processing company at the center of 2012’s “pink slime” controversy, just won a long-sought semantic victory. For years, the company has argued that its signature product is safe, wholesome, and not unlike everyday burger meat. Now, BPI has enlisted a powerful ally in its effort to recoup its image and reclassify its product: the federal government.

After a months-long evaluation, the United States Department of Agriculture’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) determined in December that BPI’s signature product—the offering famously called “pink slime” in an ABC News exposé that got the network in a lot of trouble—can be labeled “ground beef.” Legally speaking, it’s now no different from ordinary hamburger, and could even be sold directly to the public.


Original Submission

Following IPO of Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods Plans Launch of its Own Meatless Products 39 comments

After exiting Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods will launch meatless products this summer

After exiting Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods said that it will roll out its own plant-based meat substitutes beginning this summer.

The Jimmy Dean owner sold its stake in Beyond before the company went public, citing its desire to produce vegetarian meat substitutes under its own umbrella of brands. CEO Noel White told analysts on the quarterly conference call Monday that the plant-based product will launch this summer on a limited basis, with a wider rollout in October and November.

[...] Beyond made the strongest market debut so far this year on Thursday, surging 163%. The stock has a market value of $3.97 billion, dwarfed by Tyson's own market value of $22.66 billion. Tyson shares gained more than 2% Monday.

Despite the difference in market value, Beyond and other makers of plant-based meat alternatives — such as Impossible Foods — pose a threat to Tyson. Beyond Meat's CEO, Ethan Brown, told CNBC that the company is trying to capture the meat industry's customers. Its gluten- and soy-free products are meant to more closely resemble and taste like meat than previous iterations of veggie burgers.

Also at CNN.

See also: Beyond Meat goes public with a bang: 5 things to know about the plant-based meat maker
Competitors Sink Their Teeth Into The Meatless-Meat Industry


Original Submission

Mississippi Bans Calling Plant and Cultured-Meat Patties 'Burgers' 51 comments

A new law in Mississippi(1) makes it illegal to refer to plant and cell-culture based patties as 'burgers'.

The law would also prohibit the use of "burger" or "dog" in relation to vat-grown, cell-based food, which is made of meat. The statute reserves these appelations for foodstuffs derived from "slaughtered livestock."

The law has naturally been challenged by parties such as the Good Food Institute and the American Civil Liberties Union among others. In a nutshell

The contention on the meat industry side is:

Mike McCormick, president of the Mississippi Farm Bureau Federation: "This bill will protect our cattle farmers from having to compete with products not harvested from an animal."

The contention on the other side is:

"There's nothing misleading about the name of a veggie burger, or vegan hot dog, or seitan bacon," Almy, a lawyer on the Missouri case, told me. "The packages clearly disclose that this is plant-based food that has the taste or texture of this familiar food."

A typical American would likely fall somewhere between these two views.

I fully understand (and at times enjoy) 'veggie burgers', however I had to look up 'seitan bacon' (FYI - a traditional Japanese wheat based food that is meat-like) and would not have known what it was at a glance (does super-seitan bacon go to 9000 calories?)

So where do patrons of Soylent Words-Related-to-Current-Happenings fall on this one?

(1) - Note TFA bounces between Missouri and Mississippi actions. There are similar labeling laws in both states. SB 627 in Missouri and SB 2922 in Mississippi.

Related: U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat"
Regulation Coming to Lab-Grown Meat


Original Submission

No Need to Cut Down Red and Processed Meat, Study Says 44 comments

Submitted via IRC for Bytram

No need to cut down red and processed meat, study says

Most people can continue to eat red and processed meat as they do now. A major study led by researchers at McMaster and Dalhousie universities has found cutting back has little impact on health.

A panel of international scientists systematically reviewed the evidence and have recommended that most adults should continue to eat their current levels of red and processed meat.

The researchers performed four systematic reviews focused on randomized controlled trials and observational studies looking at the impact of red meat and processed meat consumption on cardiometabolic and cancer outcomes.

In one review of 12 trials with 54,000 people, the researchers did not find statistically significant or an important association between meat consumption and the risk of heart disease, diabetes or cancer.

In three systematic reviews of cohort studies following millions of people, a very small reduction in risk among those who had three fewer servings of red or processed meat a week, but the association was uncertain.

The authors also did a fifth systematic review looking at people's attitudes and health-related values around eating red and processed meats. They found people eat meat because they see it as healthy, they like the taste and they are reluctant to change their diet.

The five systematic reviews, a recommendation and an editorial on the topic were published in the Annals of Internal Medicine today.


Original Submission

Impossible Foods CEO Ponders Fake Imaginary Meat 60 comments

Impossible CEO says it can make a meat 'unlike anything that you've had before'

Plant-based meat products are bigger than ever, with the fast-food industry, grocery stores, and upscale restaurants coming on board. A recent Nielsen report found that plant-based meat alternative purchases went up 279.8 percent last week after Americans were instructed to stay home during the novel coronavirus pandemic.

Impossible Foods, a company that develops plant-based meat products, says its mission is to someday replace the incumbent meat industry entirely, stating that, from a mission standpoint, a sale only has value if it comes at the expense of the sale of an animal-derived product.

But what if plant-based meat wasn't just a substitute for an already-existing marketplace, and instead, it started to make meat that has never existed?

On this week's Vergecast podcast, Impossible Foods CEO Patrick Brown talks to Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel about how this impossible meat could be a possibility in the future, even if it doesn't make sense for the company right now.

https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-04-08

Previously: Impossible Burger Lands in Some California Grocery Stores
Burger King Grilled by Vegan Over Impossible Burger "Meat Contamination"

Related: 'Soylent' Dawkins? Atheist Mulls 'Taboo Against Cannibalism' Ending as Lab-Grown Meat Improves
Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Swedish Behavioral Scientist Suggests Eating Humans to 'Save the Planet'
Discriminating Diets Of Meat-Eating Dinosaurs
Meat Industry PR Campaign Bashes Plant-Based Meat Alternatives
Unilever Pushing for Plant-Based Meat
Judge Serves Up Sizzling Rebuke of Arkansas' Anti-Veggie-Meat Labeling Law


Original Submission

McDonald's to Introduce Meatless "McPlant" Burger 57 comments

McDonald's unveils McPlant line, which includes meatless patty co-created by Beyond Meat

McDonald's will test a meat-free burger in several markets next year as it adds plant-based menu offerings, which it has coined "McPlant."

International President Ian Borden said that McPlant was created "by McDonald's and for McDonald's." Borden said that the McPlant line could also include chicken substitutes.

McDonald's has not yet disclosed the supplier for the line. A company spokesperson declined to identify their supplier but said that McDonald's will not be manufacturing the products.

But a spokesperson for Beyond Meat said in a statement to CNBC that the company co-created the plant-based patty that will be available as part of the McPlant line. Shares of Beyond rose as much as 4% in afternoon trading after falling as much as 6% earlier on Monday. The stock, which was briefly halted for volatility in both morning and afternoon trading, is currently down less than 1%.

See also: Beyond Meat shares rise on news that it collaborated with McDonald's on the McPlant options
Beyond Meat earnings miss big on declining food service and consumer demand

Beyond Meat's partnership with McDonald's to develop the McPlant burger wasn't enough to keep shares from collapsing after the company posted third-quarter earnings that fell far below analysts' expectations.

The big miss sent shares tumbling nearly 29% in after markets closed Monday after reporting it generated $94.4 million in revenues and a loss of 28 cents per share versus the $132.8 million in revenue and 5 cents per share loss that analysts had expected.

Previously: Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Following IPO of Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods Plans Launch of its Own Meatless Products
Plant-Based "Impossible Burger" Coming to Every Burger King Location
Meat Industry PR Campaign Bashes Plant-Based Meat Alternatives
Bot Orders $18,752 of McSundaes Every 30 Minutes to Find If Machines are Working


Original Submission

Judge Serves Up Sizzling Rebuke of Arkansas’ Anti-Veggie-Meat Labeling Law 75 comments

A federal judge on Tuesday roasted Arkansas' law banning makers of meatless meat products from using words such as "burger," "sausage," "roast," and "meat" in their labeling.
[...] Judge Kristine Baker, of the US District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas, granted a preliminary injunction that prevents the state from enforcing the law while the legal case is ongoing. In her order, Judge Baker made clear that the law appears to violate the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment—as Tofurky argued. She determined that the state will likely lose the case.
[...] "The State argues that Tofurky's labels for its plant-based products are inherently misleading because they use the names and descriptors of traditional meat items but do not actually include the product they invoke, including terms like 'chorizo,' 'hot dogs,' 'sausage,' and 'ham roast,'" Judge Baker noted. Such misleading or false labels would not be protected commercial speech under the First Amendment, the state claimed.

But Judge Baker essentially called that argument bologna.
[...] She went on to cite a ruling in a similar case that determined that "Under Plaintiffs' logic, a reasonable consumer might also believe that veggie bacon contains pork, that flourless chocolate cake contains flour, or that e-books are made out of paper."

"That assumption is unwarranted," she went on. "The labels in the record evidence include ample terminology to indicate the vegan or vegetarian nature of the products."
[...] Meat and dairy industry groups have been increasingly working to try to limit the use of terms like "milk" and "meat" in other states and contexts as meatless and diary-free products continue to grow in popularity. Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and South Dakota have similar anti-veggie-meat labeling laws. In Wisconsin, lawmakers have considered banning non-dairy products from using the word "milk," such as beverages labeled almond milk.

The latter issue led former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb to quip last year that "You know, an almond doesn't lactate." He said that the Food and Drug Administration is working on a guidance for the use of the term.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/judge-serves-up-sizzling-rebuke-of-arkansas-anti-veggie-meat-labeling-law/
Previous Stories:
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=19/12/04/1425220
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=19/07/07/1443201
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=18/02/26/2315236


Original Submission

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(1)
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:10PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:10PM (#928146)

    Do they include "pink slime"?

    If dog food is good enough for our Seniors what's wrong with veggie burgers?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:13PM (#928151)

      They meat industry is poisoning our pets and our Seniors?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:14PM (12 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:14PM (#928152)

      In-N-Out... A double double 7 high is where the beef is.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:57PM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:57PM (#928161)

        I'm not a West Coaster. I don't really get the In-N-Out hype. I have colleagues who look forward to California travel because they can go to In-N-Out. I've been several times myself, but I don't understand what is so great about their burgers to warrant the hype. They're not bad, and I don't mind going there, but they're nothing that makes me want to go out of my way to add them as a stop if I'm on travel.

        So what am I missing here?

        • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:16PM (3 children)

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:16PM (#928166)

          I always stop at In-and-Out when I get to states that have them. The cheeseburgers are pretty good, but the thing that puts it over the top is the people. I've never had bad service there. No-one has answered the drive through with "washawan?". The people aren't on their cell phone when you pull up to the window. Orders, even special orders, take a reasonable amount of time. The store is clean inside and out, and the people are neat too.

          The only other fast food place like it is Chic-Fil-A.

          • (Score: 5, Funny) by FatPhil on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:11PM (2 children)

            by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:11PM (#928277) Homepage
            Chik-Fil-A's at least so clean. It's certainly uncontaminated by homosexuals.
            --
            I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
            • (Score: 4, Funny) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday December 05 2019, @03:37AM (1 child)

              by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Thursday December 05 2019, @03:37AM (#928338)

              I eat at both, so there is some level of contamination.;0

              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:12AM

                by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:12AM (#928404) Homepage
                Only you can decide whether you want Cathy to profit from your choices. Judging all workers in all branches, many of whom are just trying to make an honest living, because of the statements of one person very remote from everyone you'd ever encounter, or who actually does any work, could be taken as somewhat of an extreme generalisation. There are times when such objections are appropriate - if all you have to do is get rid of one bad egg, outcries and boycotts can be worth the effort.

                I now wish I'd have spent just a little longer on my prior post, it's blatantly obvious in retrospect that "queers" would have been the better match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1JWzyvv8A
                --
                I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:35PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:35PM (#928171)

          As far as burger chains go, you got to beat What-A-Burger.
          The best burgers are always to be found in single owner joints.
          But there is no "best". There are too many custom crafted burgers capable of blowing you away and they are unique unto themselves.
          In-N-Out ain't even in the ballpark. The little convenience store near me with a grill in the corner makes a better burger.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:43PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:43PM (#928175)

          You can order a cheeseburger with 7 patties (7-high). Do that at McDonalds and you'll get explosive diarrhea.

          • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:41PM (3 children)

            by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:41PM (#928231) Journal

            better out that in.

            Amazingly, I think I can actually hear all those arteries in the US hardening. 7 patties? No need to plan for retirement..

            --
            Books are a poor substitute for female companionship, but they are easier to find. P Rothfuss “The Wise Man's Fear"
            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday December 04 2019, @08:24PM (2 children)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday December 04 2019, @08:24PM (#928240) Homepage
              The only Burger King in the region does an 8-high whopper. It was about 16e, and I didn't feel ripped off at that price. Yes, I may have been a little drunk at the time. That was an experience, and yes, I don't think I can stop it happening again, given the chance. I might let my g/f have a few bites next time (was travelling alone last time).
              --
              I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:50PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:50PM (#928283) Homepage

          Because it's fucking cheap and delicious for what it is, and they treat their employees well while having drive-ins. Try to get similar burgers at McDonald's and Jack in the Box and you're going to be paying around 50% extra for way nastier food. Chick Fil-A is the same way, that's why you're gonna drive no less than 10 miles to get to one and both always have fucklong lines in the drive-thru.

          Somebody else mentioned Whataburger, but I've never seen one of those in my entire life and I've lived and traveled across the U.S. And places like Five Guys and Smashburger are walk-in only with a 15-minute wait for your food even on slow days.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:11PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:11PM (#928149)

    It is exactly like Budweiser (aka ABInBev) running commercials slamming and ridiculing craft beer drinkers while at the same time buying up as many craft breweries as they can. They want to marginalize the industry to the ambivalent who might be swayed to try the product, while at the same time getting a cut of a potential lucrative market of consumers whom they could never bring over to their side.

    It is simultaneously targeting two (or more) perhaps disparate groups. It is having your cake and eating it too, or at least trying to do so. Or covering all your bets. Or some other third metaphor that doesn't immediately come to mind.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:54PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:54PM (#928286) Homepage

      San Diego is one of the Meccas of craft beer and, believe me, we pay very close attention to who buys what and they're fooling fucking nobody. A few years ago Anheiser-Busch opened a "craft" brewery in East Village and fucking nobody to this day visits. Has a good rating on Yelp, though.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:23PM (5 children)

    by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:23PM (#928155) Journal

    THROG LOSE MONEY IF ALTERNATIVE PRODUCT COMES TO MARKET, THAT MAKE THROG MAAAAAD

    THROG SPEND FRACTION OF MONEY TO FLING POO ON ENEMY THEN THROG LOSE LESS MONEY

    THROG SMART. SMARTER THAN BAD SISSY MEAT MAKERS. THROG GET MORE RICH GET MORE MEAT!

    HA HA! THROG IS BEST. THROG ALWAYS WIN. WHAT MEAT IS IN THIS BURRITO? TASTES VERY TASTY.

    WHAT!! NOOOO!!!!

    https://archive.is/9AhsD [archive.is]
    https://archive.is/eSLh7 [archive.is]
    https://archive.is/YkJr8 [archive.is]

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:30PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:30PM (#928194)

      Seriously?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by krishnoid on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:38PM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:38PM (#928257)

      THROG SUFFER EXISTENTIAL CRISIS.

      OBOK ASK, "YOU GONNA EAT THAT?"

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:42PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @04:42PM (#928159)

    Did people whose entire business model is demonizing the competition, really expect no retaliation at all? Profit by infowar, lose by infowar.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:38PM (2 children)

      by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:38PM (#928172)

      The meat folks aren't wrong on, honestly. If you have concerns about processed foods there is a reasonable argument that a steak from cows has less processing in it than e.g. textured vegetable protein.

      Lab grown meat is an even easier target. Antibiotic use is ubiquitous in mammalian cell culture, and anti-meat has been harping on antibiotic (ab)use in livestock for years.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:14PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:14PM (#928187)

        And apparently it now destroys the climate too. And causes cancer, madness, blindness, hand pilosis, and eternal damnation.
        The entire market for meat substitutes in affluent societies is artificially created by aggressive propaganda. Not really different from scientologists or any similar cult creating demand for their wares through brainwash.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by black6host on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:29PM

          by black6host (3827) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:29PM (#928253) Journal

          And causes cancer, madness, blindness, hand pilosis, and eternal damnation.

          Pardon me, but I think you've confused the topic with masturbation. Two different kinds of meat there... :)

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:40PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:40PM (#928173)

    A message from the industry that brings you Potted Meat, Spam, hot dogs, bologna,pink slime, and other misc. mystery meat products, etc...: "Non-meat meat is over processed and bad!"

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ilsa on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:51PM (2 children)

    by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 04 2019, @05:51PM (#928176)

    Whenever I see a non gov't org go apeshit like this, my immediate reaction is always the exact opposite of what they want. "Hmm... They seem to be very threatened by this. A meat-promotion org going all out to demonize veggie food? They're clearly threatened and so it's time to try more veggie food. A veggie-food promotion org harping on meat? Yeah I think I'll have that nice sirloin now. Rare, so the myoglobin oozes out as I slice into it.

    Churches threatened by abortion? Well, I have a modest proposal...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:17PM (#928189)
    • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday December 05 2019, @01:34PM

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Thursday December 05 2019, @01:34PM (#928446) Journal

      What if I told you that an NGO is just a corporation if it is funded by a corporation and just a government if funded by a government.

      Meaning you think there is a public sector of NGO's, but that is just an illusion.

      A lot of us are trying to re-create the public sector that was destroyed but it is difficult considering they are trying to destroy us at the same time and have unlimited money.

      The system on the left hates the system on the right and is constantly attacking it under the table, and they then want to pretend they are the right hand side after they have won. We live in the middle and our decisions make a difference, inaction and laziness will always result in the left side and the end of the species.

      https://archive.is/dmjdm [archive.is]

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:23PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:23PM (#928192)

    Never understood why veg(i) peeps have products that simulate whatever they don’t want (e.g. meat free burger, alcohol free beer...). If you want to eat and drink bad stuff, deep fry those veggies tempura style, or have sparkling mineral watered fruit juice. Who really wants a burger’n’beer without the juicy animal fats and alcohol stimulants to fire those endocardioneurons.

    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:38PM

      by acid andy (1683) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:38PM (#928200) Homepage Journal

      Wish I knew. The more a food is dressed up to look like meat, the more I am put off by it. I think they serve a purpose as a sort of gateway food for people that liked eating meat and are trying to slowly wean themselves off it, or just reduce their intake, or give the veggie thing a try. Also there may be some (admittedly few) meat eaters that would consider these alternatives on the basis of cost (if they can be made cheaper--typically they're not really unless you make your own from basic ingredients), environmental impact or just something they'd be willing to eat while staying at a veggie household.

      --
      Where did that thought come from? And that one? What about this one? Woah, man...
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by TheRaven on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:40PM (1 child)

      by TheRaven (270) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:40PM (#928201) Journal
      Many of these things are aimed at flexitarians: people that eat meat but want to cut back on it. A lot of them want to replace the most processed meats that they eat with something that's plant based: they'll keep eating decent steak occasionally, but substitute vegetable-based alternatives for the cheaper things that they eat more frequently. This is a far more of a problem for the meat industry, because if you significantly reduce the market for the cheap cuts, that will push up the price for the prime cuts, further reducing demand.
      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:30AM (#928408)

        Perhaps, but it still makes no sense to me.

        But I'm very much a meat eater. I have zero plans to change, because I know meat protein, and fat, are very important to health. And it tastes good for a *reason*.

        Yet, I love vegetables and fruits. A fresh apple off a tree? Grapes? Carrots, broccoli eaten my steak? Onions, green peppers, fried and cooked with my steak?

        Vegetables taste good. And you'd think vegetarians must like them, at least a little. So why the hell not make delicious vegetable dishes???

        I'm guessing, you can't improve on the ones that already exist, and that the truth is simple. A vegetarian is *craving* the taste of meat, the texture of meat, for one reason.

        Their body needs it, wants it, is DESPERATE for it.

        It's like potato chips. Do you know how many bags are sold a year? I see friends, trying to cut back on fat, on meat, then they go and buy a big bag, and eat such maybe twice or three times a week.

        Well, what's in potato chips? What's ON them? Even the healthy ones are coated in oil, and then? Salt! Along with other seasonings... the oil is designed to hold them there.

        So... not getting enough salt, not getting enough fat, and their bodies FORCE them to CRAVE something full of it.

        I noticed this, and decided to eat a couple of strips of bacon a day, and make sure I got at least a table spoon of grease onto a piece of bread. ALL CRAVINGS FOR POTATO CHIPS DISAPPEARED!

        Eating too much fat is probably bad, but eating TOO LITTLE is surely too bad.

        And my point is, that's why vegetarians want stupid crap like veggie burgers. The crave what's good for them, and a home-cooked burger is very healthy, especially right off the grill with grease dripping into the bun...

    • (Score: 1) by Surak_Prime on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:44PM

      by Surak_Prime (4843) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:44PM (#928206)

      You're assuming that the whole market for these items is vegans/vegetarians, or teetotalers. I love well-prepared steak and chicken. But I'm not a big fan of hamburgers made with ground meat, and I much prefer soyburger patties. And sometimes I like tofu in my stir-fries - not to replace meat, but right there along side it. (Though I do notice that I cut back on the meat when doing that, which is probably accidentally good for me.) I'm not doing it for ethical reasons, and I'm not doing it for my health. I eat some of these things because some of them are additional tasty options for my face hole. This also applies to "near beer": if I'm going to drink alcohol, I'm drinking liquor, because my tolerance is such that beer doesn't even begin to give me a buzz, and it kinda tastes like crap - EXCEPT, every once in a while, when paired with a good steak. In which case, I'm not drinking it for its intoxicating effect, but for the actual flavor, and O'Doul's or Sharp's work well for that, and are often cheaper.

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:54PM (6 children)

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:54PM (#928216) Journal

      Exactly. I don't mind buying vegetarian or vegan stuff, if it is a genuine product (and tastes good). But I generally avoid vegetarian/vegan fake meat. If I want meat, I eat the real one. If I decided to go without meat, I'd also go without fake meat.

      If there were less fake meat and more genuine (and tasty) vegetarian/vegan products, I might eat more vegetarian/vegan food than I do now.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:51PM (3 children)

        by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:51PM (#928233)

        I think a lot of their marketing is about it being better for the planet [umich.edu], not necessarily much better for *you*. tl;dr version at the bottom of this giant infographic [beyondmeat.com], under "Our Impact".

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @08:52PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @08:52PM (#928247)

          "Pay us to save your soul!Or else!"

          • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:40PM

            by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:40PM (#928258)

            ... "buy an Impossible Burger!"

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @11:30AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @11:30AM (#928416)

          I occasionally have the vegetarian option, just because I feel like it. Where I used to live there was a pizza shop did a great vegetarian pizza. I used to order a vegetarian with added ham and cheese. Got funny looks the first few times, but it was a really excellent pizza.

          I think a lot of their marketing is about it being better for the planet, not necessarily much better for *you*.

          The only response I have for that is fuck them sideways with a baseball bat wrapped in barb wire.
          Same reason I don't give a shit about global warming. If it was really a problem they wouldn't be flying all over the planet bleating about it at holiday resort conferences.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:37PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @11:37PM (#928281)

        If there were [...] more genuine (and tasty) vegetarian/vegan products, I might eat more vegetarian/vegan food than I do now.

        Oops, just noticed you said "products" do vegetables still count? There's plenty of vegetarian food in the produce isle, its just not productized into something you can advertise/market/trade-mark. Maybe run adds for carrots and convince people they're a ground-breaking new product?

        There's plenty of healthy food, but maybe not "products".

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Acabatag on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:23AM

          by Acabatag (2885) on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:23AM (#928319)

          Sadly, there are carrots now that are essentially a 'product.' I like buying what they call 'baby carrots' which are smaller less mature carrots. They're tastier and since they have more surface area are probably more nutritious. But 'baby carrot' has now become a product. They take regular carrots and cut them into shorter chunks and put them in a bag labeled 'baby carrots.'

          You can still usually get real young carrots, but the 'baby carrot' is now a marketed product.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 04 2019, @09:36PM (#928256)

      Is it important that you understand why?

      Aside from that, why can't it be the simple distinction that one wants and enjoys the flavor and texture but one has some ethical reason why they don't want to eat a killed animal if there's a reasonable alternative? Or doesn't want the buzz of the beer (or can't have it because one is in a profession that makes enjoyment difficult or a religion....) Or.... allergies.

      Flip the question around.... If there is an alternative for which you won't be able to tell the difference then why insist on one version or the other? (Which I don't think exists yet in meat - I can barely tell the difference between an Impossible Whopper and the real thing but I can tell it. It's still tasty and I hope it sticks around.)

    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday December 04 2019, @10:11PM

      by sjames (2882) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @10:11PM (#928268) Journal

      Of course, the reasons are widely varied. In some cases there may be medical reasons such as liver disease making alcohol a bad idea for someone who likes the taste of beer. As for meat, a variety of conditions, including a tick bite [wikipedia.org], might make actual meat a bad idea.

  • (Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:24PM (1 child)

    by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:24PM (#928193) Journal

    "The paste was designed to provide complete nutrition and have a shelf life of over 100 years."

    https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Food_paste [fandom.com]
    https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nutritional_Alternative_Paste_Program [fandom.com]

    "If one shoots or attacks the paste with any weapon, they can see that it actually bleeds."

    --
    The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
  • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:43PM (1 child)

    by acid andy (1683) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @06:43PM (#928205) Homepage Journal

    What do they want, blood?

    --
    Where did that thought come from? And that one? What about this one? Woah, man...
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:02PM (6 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday December 04 2019, @07:02PM (#928220)

    I've had meat burgers. I've had burgers made of meat substitutes, including the Beyond Burger and Impossible Burger. And I've had burgers that aren't trying to be meat, but are unabashedly something else, e.g. black bean burgers. Of the 3, the meat substitutes are the least appetizing.

    Like all diet trends, this latest push for vegetarianism will create a corporate bonanza trying to sell you stuff. It's the same instinct as advertising lettuce as "gluten-free". But the right way to do it usually involves stuff that was available before it became trendy.

    --
    The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
    • (Score: 2) by Acabatag on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:28AM (3 children)

      by Acabatag (2885) on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:28AM (#928323)

      It's the same instinct as advertising lettuce as "gluten-free".

      I was at Kroger for lunch awhile back and I bought a bottle of water to go with my food. It was store-brand 'Simply natural' water and it was labeled as organic.

      Organic water.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:46AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @02:46AM (#928328)

        I think Kroger is getting ready to sell CBD products aimed at dogs.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:51PM (#932070)

          It might have been Giant Eagle idk.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @03:49AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @03:49AM (#928340)

        I generally prefer inorganic water, as I find that the organic components often give me the runs.

    • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday December 05 2019, @11:46AM

      by deimtee (3272) on Thursday December 05 2019, @11:46AM (#928424) Journal

      I think there is definitely a market for asbestos-free meat substitutes.

      --
      No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @04:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05 2019, @04:50PM (#928503)

      Your name wouldn't happen to be Mahk [youtube.com], would it? :)

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:42AM

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 05 2019, @10:42AM (#928410) Journal

    Sounds like fodder for Adam Ruins Everything. A basic premise of that show is how advertising and corporations manipulate the public into believing things that aren't true. He's already tackled the meat industry a little; the push for veganism is probably ripe for scrutiny also.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 2) by corey on Friday December 06 2019, @01:33AM

    by corey (2202) on Friday December 06 2019, @01:33AM (#928705)

    Yeah, true dat. The meat emulation products are processed as hell. My wife noticed the huge ingredient list on the side of some burgers we had a while back. Plus loads of salt.

    But they taste good to me, and I can still enjoy a big fat greasy burger without thinking about the poor helpless cow that was murdered in front of it's friends to make it for me. Now if we armed all cows with lasers and body armour to fight back, then that's a different story.

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