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posted by janrinok on Thursday January 23 2020, @11:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the don't-be-shy-now dept.

Can't go in a public restroom? You're not alone:

Most of us don't give much thought to going to the toilet. We go when we need to go.

But for a small minority of people, the act of urinating or defecating can be a major source of anxiety—especially when public restrooms are the only facilities available.

Paruresis (shy bladder) and parcopresis (shy bowel) are little known mental health conditions, yet they can significantly compromise a person's quality of life.

We don't know how many people have shy bowel, but research has estimated around 2.8%-16.4% of the population are affected by shy bladder. The condition is more common in males.

[...]

Most of us will feel a little "grossed out" from time to time when using public toilets. But what we're talking about here is different and more serious.

People with shy bladder and shy bowel experience significant anxiety when trying to go to the toilet, especially in public places like shopping centers, restaurants, at work or at school. Sufferers may also experience symptoms in their own home when family or friends are around.

Their anxiety can present in the form of increased heart rate, excessive sweating, rapid breathing, muscle tension, heart palpitations, blushing, nausea, trembling, or a combination of these.

Symptoms range in severity. Some people who are more mildly affected can experience anxiety but still be able to "go," for example when the bathroom is completely empty. Others may urinate or defecate with difficulty—for example their urine stream may be inconsistent. Some people will sit on the toilet and not be able to go at all.

[...] We canvassed 316 undergraduate students in an online survey on shy bladder and shy bowel. Some 72 participants (22.8%) self-reported symptoms of either one or both conditions.

  • We found these symptoms were influenced by particular patterns of thinking, including:
  • a misinterpretation or distortion of information (for example, interpreting laughter in the restroom as being directed towards them)
  • fears around potential perceived negative evaluation (for example, a fear of being criticized for taking too long to defecate, or for sounds and smells produced during urination or defecation)
  • fears around potential perceived positive evaluation (for example, a fear of being evaluated too positively for a strong urine stream).

Using statistical modeling, we found fear of negative evaluation was the factor most strongly associated with shy bladder or shy bowel symptoms.

As such, people with shy bladder or shy bowel may benefit from the sorts of treatments that help people with social anxiety disorder.

Cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, is known to reduce social anxiety symptoms.

The best way to help people with these conditions will be addressing the thought processes behind shy bladder and shy bowel, especially concerns around the perceptions others might evaluate or criticize one's urination or defecation.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

Citation: Can't go in a public restroom? You're not alone—and there's help (2020, January 22) retrieved 22 January 2020 from https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-01-restroom-youre-aloneand.html


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  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:07AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:07AM (#947687)

    If you drink enough vitamin C solution you will pee and defecate without any conscious effort. At high doses it is a great diuretic and osmotic diarrhea-inducing agent.

    https://dx.doi.org/10.1016%2FS0140-6736(00)42799-6 [doi.org]
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/267026 [jamanetwork.com]

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:10AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:10AM (#947689)

      Can vitamin C stop aristarchus from bitching about this story?

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:22AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:22AM (#947729)

        Most likely, if the dose is high and frequent enough:

        Our findings are consistent with a number of studies [42,48,95] that showed a significantly lower vitamin C blood concentrations between cognitively impaired compared to healthy individuals.

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5622720/ [nih.gov]

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:44AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:44AM (#947709)

    "Can't Go in a Public Restroom? You're Not Alone "

    Then leave me alone already!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:46AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:46AM (#947743)

      "Can't Go in a Public Restroom? You're Not Alone "

      Then leave me alone already!

      It's PUBLIC, idiot.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:30PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:30PM (#947937)

        In the USA the urinals give just a little bit of privacy. Go across the border to Tijuana and the urinal is a trough along one side of a wall with water running across. No thanks. For the first 50 years of my life I held it in, sometimes all day until I got to a private bathroom. Now I don't care (and can't hold it) so pissing isn't a problem now.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:11PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:11PM (#947983) Journal

          As you get older, you get less concerned about modesty in the context of any kind of "business" that needs to get done. (eg, kidney stone, and nurse asks you to pee in this jug, if you can get anything other than blood to come out)

          As for the urinal troughs along the wall, at least one major stadium in the KC area has those. I had never seen one before. At first it was shocking. (in my early 30s) Then I realized that nobody cares. I don't know any of these people and am unlikely to ever see any of them again. And even if so, who cares.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @08:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @08:48PM (#948132)

      If I don't get over my shy bladder and shy bowel, I'm gonna have a case of shy underwear ....

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @12:50AM (33 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @12:50AM (#947713) Journal

    With a range of 2.8% to 16.4%, there's no way this is any sort of "study." I'd expect such pissy research from either social scientists or the pharmaceutical industry. Now an online survey - even shittier due to selection bias. Flush it.

    --
    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:55AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @12:55AM (#947717)

      Flush it.

      Need to shit it out first.
      Can't do that while you're watching.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:14PM (1 child)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:14PM (#947985) Journal

        In my life, especially at college dorm in late 70's early 80s, with large common restroom / shower area, I've noticed that some males have a habit of flushing urinal first in order to be able to start peeing.

        Maybe some people similarly need to flush a toilet first before doing their business.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:03PM (#948044)

          Taiwan (and Japan I hear) features urinals with motion sensing. They start to flush (a little) as you approach--and automatically supply the water flow that I understand some guys need to get started.
          I'd heard of this "preflush" when in my 20s, (c.1980) while working with a much older engineer on a project, made a big difference to him, doesn't do anything for me.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday January 24 2020, @12:58AM (16 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @12:58AM (#947719) Journal

      What is not science? Publishing a preliminary result that indicates that the percentage affected may not be as trivial as it was believed? Why wouldn't be this science?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @01:31AM (15 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @01:31AM (#947734) Journal

        I would expect real research to come up with a solid number and an error range. You know, 5% +/- 2% , 95% of the time or some such. Not an upper bound 6x the lower bound.

        And let's not count the self-selection bias or the notorious inaccuracy of "web surveys". I would grade this a fail even from high school students. Actually, I'd refuse to give it a grade - you can't go lower than zero.

        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:38AM (#947736)

          I would expect real research to come up with a solid number and an error range. You know, 5% +/- 2% , 95% of the time or some such. Not an upper bound 6x the lower bound.

          I don't see why. What seems more scientific about putting a symmetric instead of an asymmetric error interval? The later seems more sophisticated to me.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM (#947745)

          Why do prefer mean as your measure of central tendency? Why do you prefer standard deviation? Standard error? 95% CI? What were you error bars anyway? I find the intervals (quartiles, deciles) quite useable too.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM (12 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM (#947747) Journal

          As an counterexample to your restrictive definition of what qualify as science, even qualitative descriptions of what has been observed, can still be part of the science. And yet it doesn't offer error bars and whatnot, cause it has no numbers.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @02:11AM (11 children)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @02:11AM (#947760) Journal

            Sure, but qualitative observations don't try to make it sound more exacting by adding phony bullshit statistics, as was done in this study.

            My observations of how shitty this study was, and the misuse of fake statistics to make it sound more "sciencey", is observational science.

            The social sciences have so much bullshit in their studies that they can't really be taken as science. Not when 90% of all studies in psychiatry and psychology are non-replicable, have undisclosed author biases, conceal the raw data, or involve outright fraud. And the 10% that don't have these problems are mostly independent studies that disprove the other 90%.

            As one example, 45% of schizophrenics who are not treated with drugs recover spontaneously. Only 9% of those treated with drugs recover. Same with antidepressants - they double the number of patients who end up relapsing, even when everything else is held constant.

            Or the study of identical twins that claimed, and is often quoted, that "proved" that schizophrenia is genetic. Never released the actual source data, but recently other researchers managed to locate many of the twins who the study claimed to have been separated at birth and found that "separation" included living with a close relative for a few weeks. Or living with a relative on the same block, going to the same school taking the same classes because they were in the same grade, meeting at each others' homes after school, etc.

            What they found was that child abuse was the big factor, not genetics.

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:15AM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:15AM (#947763)

              Not when 90% of all studies in psychiatry and psychology are non-replicable, have undisclosed author biases, conceal the raw data, or involve outright fraud. And the 10% that don't have these problems are mostly independent studies that disprove the other 90%.

              I've got news for you... same for cancer research, and medical research in general:
              https://www.jove.com/blog/scientist-blog/studies-show-only-10-of-published-science-articles-are-reproducible-what-is-happening/ [jove.com]
              https://www.nature.com/articles/483531a [nature.com]
              https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063221 [plos.org]

              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @02:40AM (4 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @02:40AM (#947780) Journal

                I like one proposal that has come out of this reproducability crisis/ All experimental trials would have to be registered in advance, so there's no hiding the results of failed trials. Protocols and raw data would have to be made available, whether the study succeeded or failed. No more cherry picking.

                And no more "editorial assistance" from drug companies that write the study, then find a university professor to put their name as lead author, whether for money or any other consideration. This is plagiarism and fraud. Universities should be required to fire anyone who is guilty of same, just like they would kick out students who get caught doing it.

                --
                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:52AM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:52AM (#947790)

                  Uh no.

                  All you need to do is fund an independent replication every time you want to fund a study to be taken seriously. If you don't, it is a pilot study. Preregistering studies is something stats autists came up with that is incompatible with science (where you always learn as you go).

                  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @03:11AM (1 child)

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @03:11AM (#947808) Journal

                    If you're doing a study, you should already have decided on a protocol, a selection criteria for your test subjects, what you are testing for, etc. Otherwise you're not doing science. Throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks is not science.

                    --
                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:16AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:16AM (#947813)

                      Spoken like someone who has never actually done science.

                • (Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:17PM

                  by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:17PM (#947987) Journal

                  Reproducing scientific results is a waste of resources! Doing the same experiment a 2nd time, as if a published paper cannot be trusted. Especially when said paper has plenty of squiggly math symbols!

                  Therefore, congress should outlaw reproducing work that has already supposedly been done in published results.

                  --
                  People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 24 2020, @02:27AM (1 child)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:27AM (#947767)

              Not when 90% of all studies in psychiatry and psychology are non-replicable, have undisclosed author biases, conceal the raw data, or involve outright fraud.

              I've got news for you... same for cancer research, and medical research in general

              Oh, you mean the world is full of people running around doing things to get paid, and for the most part nobody bothers to check whether they are right or wrong, they just want something to quote that backs up the agenda they are currently pushing? Call me cynical, but that's how I see it, and the closer I get to the sources of these things, the truer it looks.

              --
              🌻🌻 [google.com]
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:29AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:29AM (#947769)

                Oh its worse than that. Anyone who tries to do a good job is pushed out because it is way faster to produce BS than science.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday January 24 2020, @02:35AM (2 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @02:35AM (#947775) Journal

              Sure, but qualitative observations don't try to make it sound more exacting by adding phony bullshit statistics, as was done in this study.

              Because the addition of supplementary data to the observations invalidates the reports of what has been observed or what?
              Like "If you build a bigger Leiden jar, your shock will be stronger" invalidates the observation of "You can store that electric fluid in jars"? (when even the "electric fluid" was proven wrong as an explanation on the long run)

              The social sciences have so much bullshit in their studies that they can't really be taken as science.

              Unfortunately, that's not a sound logic to unequivocally assess if a particular article is or not science.
              You can at best say "There are good chances for this to be bullshit", but can't categorically say "there's absolutely no scientific value in this study, because it's social science and social sciences are unreliable".

              ---

              And finally, yes, in this case you are right - TFA is not a scientific story, it's a pos-sci story published in The Conversation [theconversation.com].
              It is cobbled together by a sci-journo-creature to popularize the "pee/bowel shy" topic to un-sciency readers, while still referencing a bunch of papers published in scientific journals (if, by chance, any reader would want to further dig this shit up).

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @02:45AM (1 child)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @02:45AM (#947785) Journal

                Read it. There was no "supplementary data." It was a bullshit web survey. By its nature riddled with self-selection bias.

                When you start out with evident selection bias, what you end up with is not "data." It barely qualifies as anecdotes.

                But it's easier to do web surveys than it is to design a study that actually requires you to get off your ass, even if it's just to go door to door and ask people, or in this case, stand in the washroom and see how long people take to enter and leave, as opposed to when there is nobody else standing in the washroom.

                --
                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday January 24 2020, @03:19AM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @03:19AM (#947816) Journal

                  Read it.

                  Read what? The root TFA story is pop-sci with lotsa links.

                  But it's easier to do web surveys than it is to design a study that actually requires you to get off your ass

                  This is exactly what I would do if I wanted to check whether or not there's something that would worth investigating further. Because is cheap and quick.
                  And the "answer" is to be interpreted as "Hey, there may be something here. Somebody have a look" or "Went there, saw nothing".
                  Anything more than that? I'd put it as "unreasonable expectations" from the reader.

                  So, you do want more than that? Tough topic... let's discuss how much are you willing to pay for the effort of recruiting a larger set, how to control, what should we look for and how to guard against factors that we consider irrelevant (external) for the study, etc. Like it or not, that's the world of today: you want something on a large scale, be prepared to pay for it.

                  Can you fault the position of
                  Me, the researcher? I am here not because of the salary (which barely qualifies for a decent living), but because I'm really curious and I like the social area. I'd do more, but there aren't enough money. BTW, you do realize that 'Research' is a highly risky area - most of the time we get negatives - just look at how many billions get churned in vain in Cancer research

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by martyb on Friday January 24 2020, @12:59AM (8 children)

      by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @12:59AM (#947720) Journal

      With a range of 2.8% to 16.4%, there's no way this is any sort of "study." I'd expect such pissy research from either social scientists or the pharmaceutical industry. Now an online survey - even shittier due to selection bias. Flush it.

      So... you're saying it's "Shitty Research"?

      =)

      --
      Wit is intellect, dancing.
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Friday January 24 2020, @01:28AM (5 children)

        by RamiK (1813) on Friday January 24 2020, @01:28AM (#947732)

        So... you're saying it's "Shitty Research"?

        =)

        Wit is intellect, dancing.

        Someone in dire need of dancing lessons.

        --
        compiling...
        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @01:43AM (4 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @01:43AM (#947739) Journal

          Yep. I'd classify it as from the no-shit-sherlock department. Example:

          ... shy bladder. The condition is more common in males.

          So use the stalls with the doors and not the urinals. This way you can do your crossword puzzle at the same time, take your mind off "business", and know the extra 5 minutes is paid vacation courtesy of your boss.

          Their anxiety can present in the form of increased heart rate, excessive sweating, rapid breathing, muscle tension, heart palpitations, blushing, nausea, trembling, or a combination of these.

          That's the burritos and the chilli you had for lunch talking.

          The DSM-5, a manual designed to help clinicians diagnose mental health conditions, classifies shy bladder as a sub-type of social anxiety disorder.

          The DSM-5 doesn't make specific mention of shy bowel, but with more research we hope to see it included in the future.

          Considering how much psychiatry is based on non-replicable studies, falsified data, undeclared conflicts of interest, and outright fraud by researchers (up to 90% of studies have one of these three problems), this will fit right in.

          But what do you expect from a field that had its' start in quacks like Mesmer and then graduated to serious nutbars like Freud.

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:56AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:56AM (#947753)

            Admittedly urinals are fairly bad in some places. Right next to eachther, right in the doorway, especially with people walking right behind you. It doesn't take a genius to design these.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:17AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:17AM (#947764)

              Once I was in New Orleans and really had to use the toilet, but the bar I went into had only one stall, with no door, and a shady looking guy standing by it holding the toilet paper.

              I'm sure the psychiatrists would put me on xanax for not taking a dump there.

          • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday January 24 2020, @10:19AM (1 child)

            by maxwell demon (1608) on Friday January 24 2020, @10:19AM (#947890) Journal

            So use the stalls with the doors and not the urinals.

            This won't help with that one:

            for example, a fear of being criticized for taking too long to defecate

            --
            The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @11:52AM

              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @11:52AM (#947903) Journal

              Sure it will. They just have to leave the stall with the newspaper open to the crossword section. It would also take their mind off them being so literally anal-retentive. Of course, this is gender-specific. Women's washrooms don't have urinals, so it's expected to take longer, especially with pantyhose in an office setting.

              --
              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday January 24 2020, @01:28AM (1 child)

        by RS3 (6367) on Friday January 24 2020, @01:28AM (#947733)

        Where's the +1 groan when you need it. :)

        • (Score: 4, Funny) by MostCynical on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:37AM

          by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:37AM (#948271) Journal

          ... In a stall, with the crossword, apparently..

          --
          "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday January 24 2020, @02:22AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:22AM (#947765)

      With a range of 2.8% to 16.4% it sounds to me like they actually did the math on the available data and reported what they found, instead of what makes them sound authoritative.

      Interesting that the data shows more shy bladder in males - my problem with public toilets is having to actually touch something, particularly with thin and normally protected skin, which is not usually a problem for male urination. I'd attribute the results to a reporting (and perhaps questioning) bias, after all: most social science is based on hear-say levels of veracity, why should this be any different?

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Friday January 24 2020, @11:45AM (2 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @11:45AM (#947900)

      I clicked thru and read and its "A systematic review" as they say. "Over the 1418 studies screened, ten were found relating to at least one review question."

      Quite a few papers, especially medical, are derivative.

      This is VERY popular in medical papers about, for example, dietary supplements. Also diets.

      Those kind of papers are where medical industry groupthink comes from, and very slowly adjusts. Takes time for new research to get published, read, interpreted, and finally reach the review papers which also take time to be published and read.

      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 24 2020, @12:23PM (1 child)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 24 2020, @12:23PM (#947906) Journal
        What's really bad is the practice of citing works without even bothering to read the abstract, never mind the paper. There's a lot of that going along, as well as "citation farms", where groups cite each other's work to game rankings. The number of citations is no longer a proxy for relative quality.
        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:29PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:29PM (#948455)

          Yeah also fake journals and fake conferences are a big thing over in China right now. Academia is fairly ill right now. Not hopeless, but in pretty bad shape.

  • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:02AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:02AM (#947723)

    ... about deficating on the side walk in in San Francisco being part of the curriculum.

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday January 24 2020, @02:43AM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:43AM (#947782) Homepage

      I see all the H1-B hiring there has finally brought Indian culture to the mainstream. Where the fuck is Nancy Pelosi and what the fuck is she doing?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:23AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:23AM (#947730)

    My Name Is Nobody....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3hsDC55O8 [youtube.com]

    -----

    I just count in binary when i need to forget about all the perverts watching me.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:20PM (2 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:20PM (#947988) Journal

      I just count in binary when i need to forget about all the perverts watching me.

      1979, working on homework problem with another student. I started at some double digit HEX number, and counted backward about eleven digits, out loud, using my fingers, to quickly arrive at the answer.

      The guy's eyes poped wide open. "wow, I never knew anyone who could count backwards in Hex before!"

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:46AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:46AM (#948306)

        Thanks for letting us know.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:41PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:41PM (#948457)

        counted backward about eleven digits, out loud

        LOL that gave me a funny memory from the past, when I started out I had some coworkers who were possibly the last production DEC octal-heads in the industry or something, and we would kid around with those dudes as they counted in octal and when they'd count up "six ... seven ... " then they'd need to say zero for octal but we'd all should "EIGHT!!!!!!!!" as loud as we could at them just to F with them and then we'd all laugh. I suppose as a joke you'd have people yelling "G" at you while you're counting hex for the LOLs.

        And that led to nostalgia that if you look at 8080 instruction set and its minor derivatives like the whole 80x86 series, in hexadecimal the opcodes and mapping look pretty random, but you put those dudes in octal and suddenly enlightened... Thats why the old Altair and Heathkit H8 and such "weirdly" used octal front panels.

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:45AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:45AM (#947741)

    I'm going to guess that being a partner in an accounting firm self-selects for people with this problem? Just visited my CPA (it's tax time for our tiny company). A few years ago the firm of about 50 people out-grew their rented space and had a developer build a new building to their spec in the 'burbs. The men's room has no urinals and separate closed stalls with floor to ceiling walls around each toilet, regular doors and door knobs. In effect you are in your own private space with complete visual privacy and pretty good acoustic privacy. The sinks are common.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:02AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:02AM (#947759)

      Sounds like they got money. Or do you get something out of pissing in front of men?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Friday January 24 2020, @02:44AM (6 children)

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:44AM (#947783)

      >I'm going to guess that being a partner in an accounting firm self-selects for people with this problem? Just visited my CPA... had a developer build a new building to their spec in the 'burbs. The men's room has no urinals and separate closed stalls with floor to ceiling walls around each toilet, regular doors and door knobs. In effect you are in your own private space with complete visual privacy and pretty good acoustic privacy.

      Have you never been outside the US? What you're describing is totally normal for public bathrooms in Europe and Asia. It's only in the Americas where public bathrooms are so, well, "public", with those humongous spaces between the partitions and floor so that people can play footsie while sitting on the toilets. Perhaps whoever ran your CPA firm was not born here in the US and finally got tired of the lousy public bathrooms Americans seem to think are perfectly normal.

      • (Score: 2) by black6host on Friday January 24 2020, @03:01AM (1 child)

        by black6host (3827) on Friday January 24 2020, @03:01AM (#947797) Journal

        I've been outside the US and I think France was the only place where a double occupancy hotel room didn't have a door to the bathroom. So, on the throne anyone who was in the room was your audience.

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:26AM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:26AM (#948261)

          Hotel room? We're not talking about hotels here, we're talking about multi-person public restrooms. The way hotels are arranged has absolutely nothing to do with that.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:07AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:07AM (#947803)

        > ...totally normal for public bathrooms in Europe and Asia.

        Interesting, you must frequent higher class places than I did. When I was in southern France ~20 years ago, I watched a farm worker piss in the field, easily visible from the road. Restaurant bathrooms were no more private than typical in USA and at least one had a squat toilet (hole in the middle of the floor).

        In England I think I remember some toilets with complete enclosures, but still had open urinals.

        In S. Korea the urinal at a car factory was a long trough, same as often seen in older sports stadiums in USA (still that way at our local drag strip). In Korea there was only one damp towel at the end of the common sinks and I got a hand rash after a couple of days (started drying hands on my shirt after that). Restaurant toilets were all squat style, often with no door.

        In Taiwan the urinals had motion sensors and ran a little water as you approached (for some people I understand this tends to help get "started"). There were no privacy dividers between multiple urinals.

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:29AM (2 children)

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:29AM (#948264)

          This isn't about urinals or open fields, it's about the stalls. Restaurant bathrooms aren't generally representative of public restrooms in any country; even in America the nice restaurants have very nice fully-walled restroom stalls, and the crappy ones look like a phone booth. We're talking about public restrooms, the ones you find in airports, corporate buildings, etc.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:55AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @01:55AM (#948311)

            Why are you so invested in this issue? People are pointing out that what you're saying is simply not consistent with reality. And you respond and backtrack into describing an increasingly contrived scenario where you can still pretend to be "right".

            Is it that you just can't accept being wrong? You want to appear well-traveled? Or something more?

            • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday January 26 2020, @02:18AM

              by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday January 26 2020, @02:18AM (#948719)

              No, people are pointing out things that have nothing to do with "public restrooms". Why are *you* so set on being right anyway? And yes, I do seem to be much better traveled than anyone here, since I've actually used public restrooms outside the US.

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday January 24 2020, @11:49AM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @11:49AM (#947902)

      My immediate guess would be they're very woke and signally. I bet they brag about those "trans-friendly" bathroom stalls on their corporate tumblr page.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:46AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:46AM (#947742)

    where everybody was called Yuri.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:49AM (#947748)

      Kawaii shoujo.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:54AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:54AM (#947751)

    Their anxiety can present in the form of increased heart rate, excessive sweating, rapid breathing, muscle tension, heart palpitations, blushing, nausea, trembling, or a combination of these.

    In my case that's not anxiety, that's just what happens when I pinch a loaf. But what a magnificent loaf!

    • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday January 24 2020, @02:30AM (2 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:30AM (#947771) Homepage

      This is in line with my one shit per day principle. If you work hard enough and didn't drink excessively the night before, then you can easily train yourself to shit at exactly the same time once a day (in my case right after I get home from work).

      I worked for a place that had only Starbucks-style 1-person restrooms and the motion switches were wired to lights outside that let others know when the restroom was occupied. Men and women had dedicated restrooms in pars throughout the building with each pair using a different color light bulb to indicate which or both were occupied. The auto-timer shut the light off after like 5 minutes if you had to stay in there that long, but all you had to do was wave your hand to turn the light back on.

      The problem was that the floor culture was one that chose to take their morning shit at work rather than before their morning shower at home like they should: So for the first few hours of the workday it was impossible to get into the restrooms due to some combination of their morning shittings and people fucking off on their phones. And sometimes in the mens' there was piss all over the fucking floor, like to a ridiculous degree. Knowing the company it could have easily been a disgruntled worker, but it was probably just because 99% of the floor workers were Mexicans.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:18AM (#947814)

        > easily train yourself to shit at exactly the same time

        This is called "being regular", one of many hits, https://www.sheknows.com/health-and-wellness/articles/1078374/reasons-you-are-not-regular/ [sheknows.com]

        Works for me, until something disrupts the routine, like occasionally working a double shift, a longer road trip (extended sitting) or being awakened by a phone call in the middle of the night. Then it might take a week or so to get back to regularity.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @07:36AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @07:36AM (#947874)

        Right with you until you went full retard.

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:59AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @01:59AM (#947756)

    My boss gets a dollar and I get a dime, that's why I shit on company time

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday January 24 2020, @02:37AM (2 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday January 24 2020, @02:37AM (#947776) Homepage

      If you must shit, shit on company time. Some companies, even nice ones, will punish you in other ways if you shit outside your break time, though. And they will let you know it as soon as you start working there. And California is an at-will state, and what average Joe has the time/energy/money/dignity to sue over taking shits?

      The only way to get around this and not be fucked-with is to get a doctor's note, but even in that case word will get around that you're a "professional shitter," which is another stigma all its own. I've heard stories of guys taking prescribed opioids for back problems being subject to disciplinary action for literally taking hour-long shits due to the "effect of the opioids" on their digestive system. Nobody likes a freeloader or a free-floater.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:18AM (#947815)

        Reality is a thing. People compensate. Machines break.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:38PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:38PM (#947994) Journal

        Wow. In almost forty years doing my job, I've never encountered that. Have never had any official "break" time. Nobody monitoring restroom use. Nobody gives a thought about leaving their desk for the kitchen, or restroom, or even to leave the building to run an important errand, etc.

        We're all here in pursuit of a common goal: to maximize our bonuses. Which means maximizing the company's profit. When the company is profitable (after annual audit) and results in annual bonuses that are quite real and often more than a month's pay, or more sometimes, everyone quits worrying about such trivial details. Everyone is paid a salary. Everyone has flexibility to manage their own time, and is expected to achieve certain goals. Everyone is normally expected to be working certain "core hours" from 10am to 2pm so that it is possible set up meetings across time zones, etc. Although exceptions can be granted.

        I tend to think of places that would pay attention to restroom usage as places that treat workers like children rather than adults. And that is probably because the managers act childish themselves. Maybe. If someone is monitored in their use of the restroom, does that person even have any authority to make decisions? (And I am not a manager and have expressed that I never intend to be a manager, that there should be a career path for a senior software developer, etc.)

        I've heard stories of guys taking prescribed opioids for back problems being subject to disciplinary action for literally taking hour-long shits due to the "effect of the opioids" on their digestive system.

        I occasionally take prescription opioids for pain. Emphasis on occasionally. When doctor asked a few months back about constipation, I said I don't take enough of them to have that problem. But even if so, why would anyone care, as long as I can get my work done? (btw, I don't need to even ask permission to visit the dr. I just put it on my calendar so it's blocked out)

        That leads me to, why would anyone care about other things (religion, race, skin color, etc) if they can get their job done and bring in money? When company is doing well, people focus on things that matter. Or maybe vice versa?

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:29AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @02:29AM (#947770)

    If you need to go #2, order the #2 value meal from Taco Bell and you'll have explosive defecation in no time!

    Guaranteed to work.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:09AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:09AM (#947807)

      For me, it's the beans.

      If i get hard to pass stools, usually 5 or 6 beans, raw, will do the trick. On me, a handful of peanuts will do the same.

      I know what these do to me, and it can be either very useful on a planned dosing, or very embarrassing and messy for an accidental dosing.

      Believe me, I hate doing unintended "bushukuru" out the distal end about an hour after the meal...especially at a social event or in my car.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 24 2020, @04:40PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:40PM (#947997) Journal

      Taco Bellyache's bean burrito is also inexpensive.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:06AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:06AM (#947802)

    I had this issue as a kid, where I actually failed to hold it in before I got home a few times a year. But I overcame it as an adult by simply facing my fears. Did it enough times that now I have a mental process I go through to make sure it's not an issue before even stepping into the bathroom.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:13AM (#947811)

      I felt very vulnerable while performing the act, and was really insecure doing it around strangers.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:33AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @03:33AM (#947826)

      If you think a visual shock might help, try the dinner party scene in Luis Buñuel "The Phantom of Liberty" in which bathroom and dining room are swapped, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Mptgi23YE [youtube.com] Guests socialize on toilets around the table. At about 3 min into this clip the young girl scandalizes her mother by saying she's hungry (what might happen if you mentioned you had to take a shit during a normal dinner party.) Eating happens in private small rooms. Worth watching 4.5 minutes of clip (the rest of the movie is culture-busting as well).

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday January 24 2020, @05:52PM (2 children)

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @05:52PM (#948035) Homepage Journal

        I thought that film was called "The discreet charm of the bourgoisie". Might it have been released with different names in different countries?

        "Down with Freedom! We Want Slavery"

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:12PM (#948047)

          Your title could be correct (for the original version?) I remembered watching it 20 years ago (but did not remember the title), googled around a bit to find that clip and took the title from there.

          Certainly an unusual movie!

        • (Score: 2) by pdfernhout on Saturday January 25 2020, @03:36AM

          by pdfernhout (5984) on Saturday January 25 2020, @03:36AM (#948331) Homepage

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_Liberty [wikipedia.org]
          "The Phantom of Liberty (French: Le Fantôme de la liberté) is a 1974 surrealist comedy film by Luis Buñuel, produced by Serge Silberman and starring Adriana Asti, Julien Bertheau and Jean-Claude Brialy. It features a non-linear plot structure that consists of various otherwise unrelated episodes linked only by the movement of certain characters from one situation to another and exhibits Buñuel's typical ribald satirical humor combined with a series of increasingly outlandish and far-fetched incidents intended to challenge the viewer's pre-conceived notions about the stability of social mores and reality."

          --
          The biggest challenge of the 21st century: the irony of technologies of abundance used by scarcity-minded people.
      • (Score: 2) by pdfernhout on Saturday January 25 2020, @04:24AM

        by pdfernhout (5984) on Saturday January 25 2020, @04:24AM (#948347) Homepage

        https://followinghadrian.com/2013/05/09/how-the-romans-did-their-business-images-of-latrines-throughout-the-roman-world/ [followinghadrian.com]
        "In Roman times, toilets used to be a public and convivial place. ... To modern readers, this can sound rather shocking as for us, going to the toilet is most definitely a private matter. However, public latrines were perfectly acceptable in Ancient Rome."

        The eating in private part of that video reminds me of a visitor's culture in "The Skills of Xanadu".
        https://archive.org/stream/galaxymagazine-1956-07/Galaxy_1956_07 [archive.org]
        https://archive.org/details/pra-BB3830.08 [archive.org]
        "Performance of Theodore Sturgeon's story for WBAI's 99.5 Radio Theatre. The story tells of a representative of the expansionist, imperialistic culture of the planet Kit Carson, and his encounter with the deceptively pastoral culture of Xanadu."

        --
        The biggest challenge of the 21st century: the irony of technologies of abundance used by scarcity-minded people.
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 24 2020, @03:25AM (4 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 24 2020, @03:25AM (#947822) Homepage Journal

    Who the hell fucks their parenting up so badly that their offspring can't even take a shit when they need to? I mean, really, how insecure do you have to be to get all psyched out about making noises most appropriate to a shitter in a shitter? You motherfuckers need to start teaching your kids to stop basing their self worth on what other people think of them. Not doing so is how we got this bullshit PC cult and now even kids who can't shoot a roost when they need to.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Friday January 24 2020, @07:33AM

      by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Friday January 24 2020, @07:33AM (#947872)

      With today's helicopter parenting, there's gonna be a lot of them.
      Kids today are prevented from doing anything risky.
      unescorted to school.....nope.
      unescorted to the park....nope.
      unescorted to a friends house...nope.
      And on and on it goes.

      We would leave home and our parents would say "come home when the streetlights come on.." and maybe.."remember your boundaries...(yeah, right!)" and perhaps "don't get caught"....err, I mean, "don't get in trouble."
      They had no idea where we were, who we were with, how powerful the explosives we were playing with were. We got to LIVE! And with luck we showed up at nightfall with all of our appendages still attached...and not too much blood spatter.
      We were allowed to get hurt. We were allowed to take risks...and we learned...sometimes quite painfully, what the world was all about.
      And we could take a piss literally anywhere without embarrassment.
      Damn I'm glad I grew up in the 1960's....

      --
      Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @07:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @07:07PM (#948072)

      I was abused by one of my parents and had this issue since I can remember. Maybe that is part of this?

      I fought against it as an adult and I have mostly beat it though, but it took concerted effort.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @02:02AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @02:02AM (#948312)

      Everyone else take note: this is a real-life example of what happens when you teach your kids to not give a damn about what anyone else thinks--your kids become entirely insufferable to all civilized society.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 24 2020, @03:38AM (3 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 24 2020, @03:38AM (#947828) Journal

    People who experience this difficulty can cure it through more travel. When you have a choice of using a public toilet or holding it in for a 15 hour bus ride through the sticks and Montezuma's Revenge is crashing down on you, your shyness will be swept away in a moment.

    I found it impossible to use public bathrooms until I travelled to Qufu, China, where confucianism began. We had eaten lunch at a dodgy roadside restaurant and by the time we reached the forest preserve where Confucius is buried la duzi was boiling inside me. There was no bathroom, and there was not one goddamn bush in that forest preserve [chinadragontours.com] to hide behind. I wound up trotting half a mile out into those trees to get enough raw distance between me and the hordes of visitors, and finally found this nice little green hill [wikimedia.org] to go behind. 15 minutes of explosive diarrhea later I walked over the top of the hill wondering how to rejoin my party and saw ten thousand Chinese on the other side looking at me, and a stone grave marker at the foot of it that read, "Confucius's Burial Place."

    That's right. I shat on Confucius's grave.

    Never had a problem going in a public restroom after that.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @04:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @04:42AM (#947845)

      > I shat on Confucius's grave.

      Is that like giving water on Arrakis, in Frank Herbert's "Dune" (spitting)?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Friday January 24 2020, @03:35PM (1 child)

      by Freeman (732) on Friday January 24 2020, @03:35PM (#947969) Journal

      Life is stranger than fiction.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:44AM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:44AM (#948273) Journal

        You said it.

        Quirky addendum: as soon as I saw the grave marker I knew I was in trouble so I hammed it up and hopped down into the viewing area and started shaking everyone's hands and saying ni hao. there was an extended family of Chinese peasants there of four generations who asked me to be in their group photo. The gnarled patriarch took the picture with a vintage hasselblad camera that was probably worth more than the collective assets of the group.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
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