from the fine-print-giveth-and-small-print-taketh-away dept.
People Are Jailbreaking Used Teslas to Get the Features They Expect:
People have certain expectations when they buy a car. For example, they expect it to work for years afterwards needing only basic maintenance. They also expect that the purchase price includes ownership of not only the physical car itself but all the software that runs it.
Tesla doesn't agree.
Last week, Jalopnik ran an article about a person who bought a used Tesla from a dealer—who in turn bought it at auction directly from Tesla under California's lemon law buyback program—advertised as having Autopilot, the company's Advanced Driver Assistance System. The entire Autopilot package, which the car had when the dealer bought it, costs an extra $8,000. Then, Tesla remotely removed the software because "Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for." Tesla said if the customer wanted Autopilot back, he'd have to fork over the $8,000.
Tesla clawing back software upgrades from used cars is not a new practice for the company. "Tesla as a policy has been doing this for years on salvage cars," said Phil Sadow, an independent Tesla repair professional. One former employee, who used to work in an official Tesla service center and asked to remain anonymous because he still works with Tesla in another capacity, said he was told to put the software features back if people complained to avoid bad publicity. He left about a year ago.
But that doesn't mean Tesla owners are helpless. Sadow and others have ways to push back against Tesla by jailbreaking the cars and getting the features owners feel are rightfully theirs.
"As far as I am concerned removing a paid-for feature, regardless of the state of the car, is theft," Sadow said. "It's as if a bunch of guys show up in a van and take your upgraded 20" wheels. Just because it's software, it's no different."
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:04AM (30 children)
Good news, but the car might become dangerous if it's too easy to break real safety features.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:18AM
That is a good point, but:
is also a valid point.
I was prepared to get all outraged about Tesla stealing stuff from people. I might need to dial it back now. Thanks for spoiling my fun Fusta.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:26AM
Being charged for a feature that will kill you. What a country!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:40AM (27 children)
Maybe safety features that rely solely on software aren't really safe?
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:48AM (1 child)
:-) Leave Boeing out of this!
It's the speed/torque limiter that will get the most attention. That's pretty much a software thing. They could screw up the charger too and blow their house up in the middle of the night.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:49AM
That wouldn't be a problem in itself.
However, a problem still arises when blowing up their house will cause damage and/or loss of limb/life to people that have no bearing in this ill-advised decision.
Public safety doesn't necessary stops at the door of a private house - for very good reasons, one still can't discharge dimethyl mercury down their drain nor heat their apartment with hypergolic propellants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:53AM (24 children)
And, because they aren't really perfect, let's throw them away and allow even clueless people to screw with them. Because this will surely make the thing so much safer for the public.
Is that what you are saying?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @08:58AM (6 children)
People should have full control over their computing to begin with. Anything else is inherently oppressive and will be used by mega-corporations and governments to take advantage of people, as already happens.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:16AM
Get with the times pops, It's illegal for all major hardware manufacturers to give you full control.
https://www.devever.net/~hl/intelme [devever.net]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:24AM (2 children)
People should have the knowledge and abilities to be able to exercise the control over their computers before even starting "to begin with".
Wake me up when this knowledge exists in even a non-trivial part of the population (as a first step before their number is large enough to ask for/obtain protective regulations).
Yeah, it happens. Deal with it the best you can, because most of the people don't care, so don't expect their support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:46AM (1 child)
No, that's not how a specialized society works. People should have access to people with knowledge and abilities to be able to exercise full control over the objects they own. And yes, that includes buying a $1,000 second-hand dinkytoy and upgrading it with a $2,000 rolls royce engine, and driving it in public if the resulting contraption is road-worthy. Just because (parts of) the engine is made with software should not invalidate that freedom.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:44PM
You mean, if they have enough money to hire someone to assess the road-worthy-ness, right?
I don't know, but I have this hunch anyone can do it right now, within the bounds of the current regulations. Enough "fast and furious" movies featuring custom modded, hot rods and shop-build cars for me to believe it is legal.
So, wipe clean Tesla's firmware (to avoid breaching DMCA) and replace it with your own choice of firmware, pass the inspection and Bob's your uncle.
Look, even the diabetics that hack their own pump into something better [medicalxpress.com] a free to do so as long as they don't endanger others (even when some make fatal programming mistakes) - that is they do no sell the hacked pumps without FDA's certification. Were they to have enough money for certification, I'm sure they could compete with the actual manufacturers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:01PM (1 child)
I don't know why there hasn't been more pushback or rioting in the streets over that. I first ran into it about a decade ago. Basic 1040s don't require it, but lots of other filings do. Why isn't anyone complaining about that? Tax information should *NEVER* be required to go through a third party. It is between you and the government, and only optionally through an account agent or tax specialist who should have gone through ethics and privacy classes before ever being allowed near sensitive personal information.
But that isn't the America we live in anymore.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:34PM
While I don't like the idea of a 3rd party seeing my taxes, it does appear that this system has been pretty secure to date (famous last words).
After all, the same 3rd party probably has seen at least parts of Trumps tax returns...and no one has leaked them yet, although plenty have been looking.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @10:20AM (16 children)
No, I'm saying manufacturers are ignoring too much low tech as backup, such as:
no mechanical connection between steering wheel and front wheels (this bug is not in my car);
no mechanical connection between the transmission and gear selector (this bug is in my car);
no mechanical kill switch (this bug is in my car);
no mechanical park brake (this bug is in my car);
and probably more.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:56PM (12 children)
Keeping into account the EV nature of Tesla and knowing EV are going to be the mainstream, some/many of those bugs are unavoidable or moot (e.g. no transmission/gear box necessary, but the acceleration cannot be mechanical anymore, you will need to deal with PWM for acceleration control and PID regulators for cruise control)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:38PM (1 child)
> ... knowing EV are going to be the mainstream,...
Not at the rate things are going now. Unless your timeframe is 2040 or so, that's my earliest guess for half EV in the fleet. If you want to include hybrids as "EV", it might be sooner.
Many of the cars sold this year will still be running (perhaps limping(grin)) in 2040.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:05PM
Meh, Trump's not gonna last that long and I guarantee you the Japanese cars brouhaha in the early '80-ies will be a spring breeze in comparison the speed the Chinese car industry is gonna penetrate US.
BTW, in case you aren't aware; the Chinese are nowadays
- by far the largest car producer in the world [ceoworld.biz] - produces more cars than the next top 4 combined
- the largest lithium battery producer in the world [forbes.com] - at 73%
Yeah, right, if you think of be dismissive about the quality, take some moments to also think that:
- a good percentage of Americans shop at Wallmart, stacked with chinese stuff. If it's cheap and good enough, they are gonna buy it
- significantly improving the quality in an existing production centers can happen quicker than significantly growing the manufacturing capacity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:29PM (9 children)
I don't know of any car that doesn't have a drive by wire acclerator (not that I've actually looked for one). And I don't see that as a problem.
But I still want a way of making sure that cruise control is off and drive to the wheels is disabled - if I could afford an electric car I'd be willing to pay extra for a clutch somewhere between the motor and wheels.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @12:45AM (8 children)
This will absolutely kill your mileage and likely fry your motor - you see, those motor coils simply hate sudden changes in the load or current; you've been played against long ago by that Russian with a German name - Emil Lenz [wikipedia.org], 'twas him - he legislated nasty effects will happen whenever you break a circuit with a big, powerful coil in which nice heavy currents happily flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @03:28AM (7 children)
Yes, but both are preferable to running off the road at whatever the car's maximum speed is because cruise control is stuck on. I did call it a safety device, not something to misuse on a daily basis.
Changing the subject just a little, the manufacturer of the DCC* system I use on my model railway is ...Lenz [lenz-elektronik.de]. No relation as far as I can see.
*DCC uses PWM for speed control for the same reason electric cars use it (just to get back on subject :)).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @04:01AM (6 children)
I reckon there are better solutions than to mechanically decouple the drive train.
Like an mechanically switch which cuts the main power and some (large current rated) flyback freewheeling diodes on the motor coils which will get you an inductive breaking - the max current in the coils at the value when you cut the power. You'll still need to deal with the heating in the coil - 500kg*(25m/s)2/2 = 156250J - meh, not that bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @05:00AM (5 children)
A good option, although I would also like to have independant brake control (I want both, call me entitled if you like; but I also recognise that no manufacturer will offer both).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @05:12AM (4 children)
I assumed there must be a simple, friction based, mechanical brake.
Regenerative/inductive braking will be limited on the braking force and one must assume there will be cases in which, damn'd be energy efficiency, one must stop asap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @06:11AM (3 children)
In a world where the Nissan Infiniti doesn't have a mechanical connection between steering wheel and front wheels I'm not confident that's a safe assumption for much longer.
Dynamic braking (as used on trains) is most efficient at high speeds, It gets less so at 20-30km/h. I still want my multicircuit friction brakes - they're still usable even if the assistance goes on holiday.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @07:31AM (2 children)
But of course! Here's how when everything else fails [youtube.com]
(note how this is not a problem that's specific to EV?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @08:13AM (1 child)
... Wow!
My post wasn't clear enough - all of my initial specific criticisms were of misfeatures found in infernal combustion engined cars (and 3/4 are in mine).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @08:19AM
No, apologies, your post was clear. My mind wasn't - with my only excuse being the late evening of a thanks-god-is-friday.
A good thing I can give a miss to anything Valentine related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:47PM (2 children)
What's a mechanical kill switch?
An ignition switch in a gasoline engine electronically disconnects the ignition - somewhere along the line so no more sparks reach the cylinders - it doesn't mechanically stop the engine from turning. Without spark the combustion usually can't continue, but you've heard an engine "diesel out" right? Where it continues to run for a few cycles after the ignition is off? Yeah, nothing trying to stop the engine from turning ... So what's sort of mechanical kill switch are you pining for?
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:20PM
A switch with contacts; one that can stop the fuel pump and fuel injector (and ignition of a spark ignition engine). And given the choice between stuck full throttle and dieseling I'll take the latter with its reduced power.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @12:36AM
Many new cars don't have switches that disconnect anything. "Turning the ignition off" sends a signal to the computer to tell it to stop.
Some people worry about things like : https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/02/12/0431203 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:29AM (56 children)
When I bought my new car it had some extras, and I paid through the nose for them (dealer prices suck). When I sell this car I fully expect to be able to advertise those extras to get more $$$ out of it. I also fully expect the buyer to get full usage out of these extras. No Infiniti, you can't disable that $1500 navigation system I paid for just because the DMV told you I sold the car.
I don't give a shit if it's hardware or software. I bought a car, everything that came with it is mine. When I sell the car all those extras are mine to sell.
Don't want my car to get software upgrades unless I pay $$$? Fine. But, not only do I expect those upgrades I paid for to flow to the buyer, I expect the buyer to be able to buy future upgrades, just as if they were the original buyer.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:43AM (3 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:16AM (2 children)
If you buy it, you own it. The owner is authorized by definition.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 5, Informative) by barbara hudson on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:15AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 3, Touché) by mhajicek on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:21AM
Ah, misunderstanding. Thought you were arguing that the new owner, by jailbreaking, was committing unauthorized access.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:57AM (49 children)
Commercial software is something the consumer doesn't buy, s/he receives a license to use it.
Some (many?) of those licenses are not transferable** and I can sorta understand why Tesla would be reluctant to allow their license to be transferable, even outside mercantile motivations. One reasons: the receiver of the license will have to agree with an EULA stating "Autopilot is not actually an autopilot and Tesla have no liability if it crashes".
--
** I do remember a time, some 10-12 years ago, that the company I was working for needed to maintain some legacy software on HPUX. At a certain moment, the hardware gave up the holy smoke and we managed to find another one at an auction site (they were no longer produced). We still needed to buy a license from HP - for a version of HPUX well past EoL - even if it was actually installed on the computer.
Now, I'm not saying that's good and proper, I'm just saying that's nothing new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:30AM (1 child)
I am not endorsing the idea, but I wonder if Tesla would sell you a vehicle lifetime contract. If it costs 8k for a personal lifetime license how much extra would you have to pay to have it be transferable. I can see liability reasons why they might want to disable the autopilot, but disabling any features other than that is just a dick move.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:18AM
Fair, right?
(remember when Internet Explored could not be uninstalled because was "too deeply integrated in OS"?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:11AM (31 children)
On the other hand, embedded software typically goes with the device. The firmware in your TV, BluRay player, electric razor, etc naturally transfer with the physical device if you sell it or give it away.
Closer to the case at hand, the same goes for the embedded software on most cars. It is a natural expectation.
As for the machine you were talking about, right or wrong, you had to re-license the HPUX, but I'm guessing the bootROM was considered part of the hardware.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:34AM (30 children)
Umm... On the other side:
- IoT hell - it's bad, true, but it still happening (very much like social media is still happening)
- selling a network-locked mobile before the contract's end term for your "buy your phone with a mobile plan" is expected to be... natural/fraudulent?
- the "access to Netflix" credentials (that you saved in your smart TV) doesn't transfer to the new owner when you sell it, does it?
- whenever selling you car, any rego fees for the year that you have do transfer to the new owner. However, your car insurance doesn't.
Not saying the case for Tesla falls into any of the above, I'm just saying that there are "embedded devices" and "embedded devices", and "features vs services vs obligations" considerations (including the "mod the firmware on your car and the result is the car is no longer safe; or no longer certified as roadworthy, thus illegal to drive it on public roads")
Thus, any analogy requires a validation of its applicability. A lot boils down to the contract of sale which the original owner has with Tesla.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:46AM (5 children)
> whenever selling you car, any rego fees for the year that you have do transfer to the new owner.
Not here, NY State, USA. NY vehicle registrations are for two years and if I sell my car in the middle, I get money back for a prorated amount that I didn't use--once I turn in my license plates (might have a service fee deducted?) The new owner gets their own plates and starts the two year registration process from scratch.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:54AM (2 children)
Well, the rego in Australia does transfer - the "road tax" for the car was paid already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday February 14 2020, @01:09AM (1 child)
The rego can transfer if
1/ you sell to a LMCT (Licensed Motor Car Trader), OR
2/ If you have a current certificate of roadworthiness.
If neither of those apply, you are required to hand in the plates when transferring the title, and they will pro-rata refund the rego and TAC.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @01:38AM
True. I forgot about point 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:14AM (1 child)
Now I undrstand why there seem to be so many old plates in barns and bars in the US
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:45PM
Right. We didn't used to have to turn in old plates, so they sat on the car in the barn.
Now we do (at least in NY State), otherwise some database will pop out a note that you have a registered vehicle without insurance (or some other infraction). Other states may be sloppier about this, there may still be a few states that don't have mandatory liability insurance?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @03:45AM (20 children)
Netflix is a service that carries a monthly fee. Car insurance is insuring the driver. I have to be honest here, nit sure there's a point in there...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @04:12AM (19 children)
And Tesla seems to say Autopilot is a service too, except that's not on monthly fee, but one-off money down per customer.
Can you show why the mismatch between your expectations and Tesla's position should be resolved in your favour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:08AM (18 children)
Turning the feature on is a one-off effort. It's actually more effort to turn it back off than it is to leave it alone.
To compare with Netflix, they have to continue to run their servers, provision bandwidth, and license media in order to keep things running.. In other words, without an ongoing significant effort (and expense) on Netflix's part, the service goes down.
As a general rule, be suspicious of anyone who suggests that you pay them to NOT do something (such as disable the autopilot feature).
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:26AM (17 children)
Ok, my apologies for the ambiguity. I sorta agree that "Autopilot should be a car feature, not a service", with all the common-sense arguments that are based on this interpretation.**
My question should have been: "Why legally the common-sense argumentation should prevail against Tesla's position"?
---
** There is a risk in relying on common-sense though, risk that I feel compelled to aknoledge. It arises from the fact that the "common-sense term" has the implicitly attached string of "the common-sense of the day".
As an example of "what can go wrong with the common-sense of today" in Tesla's case - I'm almost sure that the "full-fledged autopilot" of the (near future [theverge.com]?) will need street-map data to function properly and, very likely, "current status updates for the roads/traffic": otherwise the "autopilot" cannot reach the level of autonomy required by a "self-driving-the-human-can-safely-have-a-nap-or-blowjob".
The reliance on information to be constantly updated will transform the nature of autopilot from "feature" to "service" in a very short span of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:44PM (15 children)
Keeping in mind that I am not a lawyer, when it comes to transactions, the law generally prefers that the common sense understanding prevail (The reasonable man). It LOOKS like a sale, optional features on cars have always been sales (which supports the reasonable man expecting it to be a sale). Since there is no mention of a specific period of time, it doesn't look like a rental.
Your scenario of future autonomy requiring continuing updates to data is irrelevant. We're talking about autopilot, not autonomy. Even Tesla vehemently denies that the autopilot feature is autonomy. So I would expect that in such a scenario, the autopilot should continue to function as it does now but to get full autonomy you might have to subscribe to a service.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:28PM (14 children)
Optional features used to be hardware.
Now we're talking about firmware only, one that enable an optional capability without any modification of the hardware, different kettle of fish than what the traditional "optional features" used to be. Legislation in regards with the firmware regime exists and it's siding with Tesla (see DMCA).
Deal with it, gnashing your teeth is only your loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:21PM (13 children)
Not necessarily. Sport performance packages are often firmware mods.
It's funny, when John Lennon sang "Imagine no possessions", they thought he was singing about Communism (so did he, to be fair). These days it's Capitalism trying to offer us that 'dream'.
DMCA says you can't copy the firmware for your own product. It doesn't grant anyone the right to make it a rental item while structuring the transaction to look like a sale. For example, if I buy a book, it is mine. I cannot run off copies and sell them for $0.50 each, but the publisher can't sneak it off of my book shelf while I sleep. I am free to loan it to a friend or sell it to someone else.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:43PM (12 children)
Or break its protection, if it is protected.
It's software, closed source software, and such kind of software was offered under "license to use, no ownership in the transaction" ever since, I don't know, say... Roman Empire? (grin)
True, it was only recently (in relative terms, about 10 years tho') since the big software firms switched from "here's the license for your ver.X of this software" to a rental model.
Adobe with its Creative Suite or something was among the first, if I'm not mistaken. Since then, cloud, SaaS and IoT happened too. Ah, yes, and the used-games-market collapsed.
Sorry, but under those circumstances, expecting ownership over a piece of software or perpetual use + transfer rights is over-expecting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:53PM (11 children)
enjoy your serfdom.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @08:24PM (10 children)
I would try, but I'm not depending on Tesla's autopilot and the single set of proprietary software I'm using has been paid by my employer. Apologies for my inability to experience serfdom, much less enjoy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday February 13 2020, @08:33PM (9 children)
You'll get there, don't worry. Allow Tesla's claw back now, and it won't be long until you don't actually own anything that you 'buy' You won't have to Imagine no possessions, you'll be living it.
The only difference is there won't even be a pretense of allocating to you according to your need.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:18PM (7 children)
Makers. The Chinese components are cheap.
YouTube is full of build your own tools. Umm, not quite full, cats and puppies and alt-right are there too, but there are enough of the makers too. Highly recommended, better spent time than arguing with Tesla or with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday February 14 2020, @02:47AM (6 children)
Making is good, and I sincerely hope we continue to make progress in what can be accomplished in the garage, but it's a bit silly to suggest that it's mere existence invalidates any concerns for large corporations claiming "ours is ours. Yours is also ours now.".
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @02:57AM (5 children)
I don't see any chance for a "popular revolution against corporations".
As such, the best I can do is to refuse anything they offer that hurts my interest. If I really need it, I'll make one for myself. Or get around if I can't.
For sure, I'm not gonna waste time from my life fighting something I can't control (other than by refusing to buy from them and, fat chance, expecting that others will do the same).
Be it for the simple reason that I have less life in front of me than I have behind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday February 14 2020, @06:19AM (4 children)
Lets hope you have a lifetime supply of CPUs in the basement, since while I have seen (on video) very simple ICs made in a garage, it's going to be a while for CPUs.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @07:25AM (3 children)
FGPA and μC to the rescue. Guess what? The Chinese started to make their own FGPAs - some RISC-V dev boards no less (thanks, Trump, you pushed the Chinese onto self-reliance part faster than they wanted) [aliexpress.com]
Some RasPies and BeagleBoards too. Did you know that Zilog is pretty much alive? Remember them? (Umm... actually do you know about them at all?)
Can't wait to get to retirement and see what one could do with absofuckinglutely dirt-cheap μC [youtube.com] on the road towards the "Connection machine" [wikipedia.org]. I guess there's lotsa fun time to be had; Tesla, Faecebook and walled-orchards Apple can keep their dont-know-any-better consumer crowd busy to make duck faces and/or fight with stupid memes, I really can not care less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday February 14 2020, @07:03PM (2 children)
Z80 was my second assembly language after 6502, so yes I know who Zilog are.
uC and FPGA certainly are interesting. I've done a fair bit of work with AVR and Cortex M4 based devices. But you DO realize that those are produced by corporations, right? You won't likely be fabbing one of those in your garage any time soon. Those corporations are a lot more friendly to individuals and small business It's nice that smaller companies like Adafruit and Sparkfun have found a space to work in alongside RaspberryPI, Arduino, Beagle, and co.
I have also been following various efforts to use desktop CNC and Chinese engraving lasers to make PCBs as well as garage reflow techniques.
There's a lot there and I imagine there will be a lot of end running the madness from grabby corporations, but without efforts to curb that grabbiness, don't be surprised when new paid for efforts to "protect the children" come along that 'just happen' to make all of that much harder to manage.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @11:43PM (1 child)
Corporations that sell hardware.
You know, those kind of corporations for which sharing access to one device between many users spell disaster for the revenue. Those kind who would be absolutely delighted if each human would use as many unit from them as possible - a thing that may create a problem with planed obsolescence, but not a problem in the access to hardware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:47AM
It's worth noting that Atmel and other µC producers seem to be the good guys here. There are many others. But keep in mind, Intel and AMD are also hardware manufacturers. AMD are somewhat helpful but Intel would rather be waterboarded than give out useful technical documentation for many of their products. Some of the public documentation is actively deceitful. And that was before they came up with the ME madness.
But eventually, you'll probably need a car. Good luck if you want one that doesn't contain firmware you didn't write. The current trends suggest more firmware in future cars, not less. If you do go the extra mile and rip out the ECU and make a replacement (a lot of work, but possible), will you be able to pass emissions? I don't mean will the emissions be within legal limits, I mean will you actually be able to get a homebrew ECU equipped car an emissions certificate?
If you want to interoperate with any video source that used HDCP, good luck to you. Any success you have there will depend on the grey market and you will not be able to sell your solution to others except under the table in a modern equivalent of a speakeasy. There's nothing the good manufacturers can do about that.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:47PM
Here, maybe you'll like it, it starts pretty basic: woodwork for humans [youtube.com].
Or maybe you like better building a scanning electron microscope from scratch [youtube.com]?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:51PM
> "self-driving-the-human-can-safely-have-a-nap-or-blowjob".
I've never tried a nap (at least on purpose) in a normal car and certainly would not try one on purpose with beta software driving the car...but the latter was fun in a normal car--I was wide awake(!), no need for any software to mediate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @12:51AM (2 children)
I've had this argument several times at work. Your contract with someone else does not bind me. Likewise, the original owner's contract with Tesla has no effect on the new owner. They do NOT get to revoke or modify the sale. If Tesla thinks that the sale violated their rights or the original contract they can sue the original owner. They have no control or authority over the new owner.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @01:08AM (1 child)
I have the Brooklyn bridge to sell you -'t'll be cheap, mate.
Once you give me the money, you are free to use it as you please, no matter that I don't have any ownership established by a sale contract.
(if you bought a Tesla feature that was not owned by the one that sold it to you, you worth losing your money)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @01:19AM
That would be fine if you actually owned the Brooklyn bridge. Can you drop it over that river in my backyard over there? Thanks.
The contract you have with Brooklyn saying their garbage trucks can drive across it to get to Brooklyn is your problem.
(Score: 3, Disagree) by barbara hudson on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:21AM (8 children)
If I buy a used computer and the previous owner only leased the software, then the owner of the software needs to get a court order to retake ownership of the software, after which I can go after the person who sold it to me for the loss, You can't just take it without either my agreement or a court judgment.
Due process is a thing no matter whether it's hardware or software.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:46AM (7 children)
Not when the previous owner tells you before the sale: "Look, I'll sell you this hardware with the OS installed only as a proof the hardware is working fine. If you use it beyond this purpose, you are liable to deal with HP. Take it or leave it". Fair warning, right?
(that's exactly what happened in the HPUX case that I mentioned. And we couldn't do anything else bit to follow the legal path - paid $300 for the hardware and $800 for the license of the OS already installed; yes, the HP reseller send also a CD containing... can't remember, but I think it was the binary images for the 3.5" floppies on which the original OS was to be installed. This happened in 2005-2006 or thereabouts. Oh, fuck, that means 14-15 years - shit, the time flies quite fast).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday February 13 2020, @03:27PM (4 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @04:44PM (3 children)
Then the seller is in breach of its contract and sold you something that wasn't him to sell. No much different from selling you stolen goods and you possessing them.
Under any law that I know, even if you as a buyer acted in good faith, you can't say the software is yours to do as you like.
I'm not in the mindset to tell a bank how to run its IT department and offer advise on the lease vs buy matters.
We needed a machine like that exactly because we were maintaining a legacy system build and ran in production on such machines and those weren't produced any more for like ages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:34PM (2 children)
Software is like other property. You can't just take and screw over someone's machine/computer device without the current owners permission unless you get a court order. Same as the woman who got paid $10,090 from Microsoft when she took them to court for updating her computer to Windows 10 and left her machine unbootable. You need the current owners permission or a court order because the current owners are not a party to any agreement.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:53PM (1 child)
Grateful for a link.
Oh, but you got this sooo wrooong. It was the current owner that made an unauthorized access to Tesla's system.
Don't you believe for a moment that Tesla is paying minions to hunt for resold cars and "invade" them, it would be totally illogical.
It was the firmware on that car that "called home" and Tesla determined it does not have a licensing contract with the current owner thus the access was not authorized by Tesla. And they arranged that such a contact not gonna happen until the situation is rectified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:00AM
Many cases that make the evening news where it's one person fighting for rights start with "a woman in ..." Then again, women are no longer just willing to accept some shit because some rich white guy says so.
Those that aren't women are mostly PoC or LGBT+.
You are not allowed to repossess anything, especially from a 3rd party, without a judgment. Show me Tesla had a judgment allowing repossession of the software.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:27AM (1 child)
They can't even void the warranty unless they can prove the aftermarket part was defective, and that only voids the warranty for that part, not the whole car.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @01:34AM
Doesn't seem to be so in the John Deere "right to repair" case.
Until the legal precedent is unambiguously created, we're talking about IANAL opinions (and I started to get tired doing it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:27AM (4 children)
How do you think it would go over if ICE car manufacturers said that the license for the fuel injector software was nontransferable, and remotely bricked all second hand cars not sold through them?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:56AM (3 children)
We aren't in a "Tesla bricks second hand cars" scenario, are we? It disabled the Autopilot, which doesn't make the car useless, just less useful (personal point of view, just marginally less useful, I wouldn't trust their autopilot anyway).
Coming back to the specific issue at hand, how do you think any commercial entity (required to guarantee a certain level of safety for the product they provide) can promise you it will provide road-map and traffic data forever for one-off payment?
Because when [theverge.com]** the "Autopilot" reached the "autonomous self-driving" level, road-map and real-time traffic data will be essential for the level of safety Tesla needs to promise for Autopilot.
**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:01PM (1 child)
If a car is bricked, it also isn't useless, just less useful. It can still be used as source of spare parts, or as source of scrap metal. It also can be used as part of the scenery of a movie or photo. Or you might put it in front of your house to show off what expensive car you could afford (no one passing by will know that it doesn't work any more). Or you may use it to store items inside. Or maybe the entertainment system is still working, then you can use it as your private listening room.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:46PM
Now, that's what I call a sudden critical attack of pedantry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:22AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:54AM
S/he / they. This is 2020. You can do better.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday February 13 2020, @03:51PM (1 child)
I would also mention: First Sale Doctrine.
Once you buy it, including bells and whistles, it is yours. You can resell it.
There was even a court case about someone buying some kind of software bundle from Adobe, and then later reselling parts of it, such as Photoshop or Illustrator, without selling the entire bundle.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:07AM
Even a copyright violation doesn't give you the right to remotely disable software or barge into a store selling pirated copies and taking them. You need to go through the courts or the cops. Tesla is no exception.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:05AM (23 children)
I don't like one bit that Tesla has any owner unauthorized access whatsoever to their used cars. If I eventually get a used Tesla, it'll only be if I know I can jailbreak it.
Anyone recall all these articles from 20 to 30 years ago saying the US is lawsuit happy? And that it was bad for business, and we need damage caps and other restrictions? I used to believe that. Now, I think there aren't enough lawsuits. The fact that big companies think they can get away with shit like this is exhibit A of why we need feistier customers who will sue and/or boycott more often.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:14AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_(film) [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:52AM (21 children)
I'll sue ya [youtube.com]. Enjoy.
Jailbreak it and you may end in jail. Or staring death in the face.
And not because of DMCA breaches, but because you drove on public roads with a car no longer certified as safe and the unsafe shit just happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:44PM (2 children)
> Jailbreak it and you may end in jail. Or staring death in the face.
Eh, probably a lot safer than driving a heavily speed modded classic car. Know what a T-bucket is?
> a car no longer certified as safe
One of the biggest safety increases we could make in our current lifestyle is to not use motorized vehicles at all, except for medical emergencies. Cars simply aren't safe. Car safety has improved hugely over the decades, but they're still in the top 10 for biggest threats to an individual's health and safety.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:02PM (1 child)
Wasn't familiar with the term, I saw plenty about 1 week ago (there's an annual show of classic and modded cars nearby), thanks.
I tend to disagree on this point - probably because I'm in software development for quite a long time and I saw and committed my fair share of bugs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Thursday February 13 2020, @04:13PM
Obligatory [xkcd.com]
--
Patience: What you exercise when there are too many witnesses.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:29PM (17 children)
Then fuck it. Jail is never ever going to be deterrent to me owning my fucking hardware. I will proudly march into that court room with civil disobedience and tell them to suck my big fat cock.
I really hate it when people go authoritarian and talk about prison and death as the reasons we won't stand up for ourselves and our FUCKING RIGHTS. Well fuck that, suck my cock, burn in fucking hell. I'm an American, and when England was pulling that shit on us what did we do?
Exactly. I'll jailbreak every fucking device I have to, to own my own fucking hardware. It's American Freedom to do so, and eventually we will take the heads off the fucking c-suite cocksuckers that think they can just take from us with impunity.
At the moment though, nobody is forcing me to give dollars to Tesla, or that piece of shit, Musk. So I very much still have a choice in purchasing transportation, that actually has no computer chips or firmware in it. If I had 70k to blow on a car, and more in the aftermarket costs, I would convert an old truck to electric or biofuel. That vehicle, would have nothing on it that needed to be jailbroken.
As far as the road safety is concerned, you don't get to put that on me. That is, and always will be, on Tesla. They offered a vehicle with auto pilot, it's on them to be certified, and that software is 100% transferrable with the car. If Tesla fucks with it, that's their liability not mine. The car was supposed to have working auto pilot, and jailbreaking something is in actuality fixing it.
If we have to go to war to own our own devices, so be it. Freedom is the only choice ever, and death fighting for it is the second choice when the first one is being taken away.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:41PM (15 children)
Thanks for the good laugh on a very early thank-God-is-Friday day.
I hope you do know your analog electronics very well, controlling electrical currents in the 10A range isn't gonna go well with pure mechanical thingies and you just refused digital processing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday February 13 2020, @10:32PM (3 children)
12Volt, 10 to 15 Amp circuits can be dangerous.
Luckily, the land rover I rewired was already in house paint, so easy to touch-up when a temporary earth wire melted..
Also, mechanical injection systems can be awful [youtube.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @10:57PM (2 children)
Now imagine when you get in the 250-270 kW [wikipedia.org] range.
12V is of no use, otherwise the entire car will be made entirely from copper... ummm... busbars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday February 14 2020, @12:10AM
No need to crash the vehicle!
Zap the occupants!
Fry the pitiful humans!
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @06:21AM
So we're going to see the ladder chassis' comeback?
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:16PM (2 children)
You can laugh, but it's extremely offensive to Americans that give a shit about freedom, when you say we should live in fear of consequences from bad laws and bad actors. It's not the American way, although I honestly question if any real Americans even exist anymore, or if America (especially its heart) even exists. We (true Americans) fight that fascist shit hard, and for somebody that lives in the UK (correct if I'm wrong), you should remember that. We fought it together. Anytime you want to tell Americans in the future to fear death and prison because we dare to rise up against oppression and injustice, don't be surprised when we bite back. With all due respect, don't act like a daft authoritarian loving prick.
In regards to the digital processing, I'm not against computers or digital processing. I'm against it being controlled in any way, beyond the owner, which is me. Whatever your talking about can be obtained, or designed and implemented, without such controls.
As far as Americans and cars are concerned, aftermarket complete ownership is important to us. Important enough that we had legal battles regarding it to enshrine into law the restrictions on manufacturers exhibiting control after the point of sale. It's our RIGHT to modify our property after the point of sale in way that we want. Unfortunately, that battle is being fought again with tractors and farming equipment.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @12:34AM
Correction: Melbourne, Australia.
Born in one of the East European countries under a former communist regime. What this does teach one: pick you fights, you may finish dead over a nothing; if you end disappeared, at least there should be a worthy reason for it.
Hint: Tesla disabling autopilot in its second hand cars doesn't worth a fuss - vote with you wallet and be done with it - there's nothing about "human rights" or "my liberty" in there, just buy another car.
No disrespect meant or intended in the below, and I admit I may be wrong, but this is how I see you from outside.
You - the American people - never dared on your own. If the french weren't to finance it [wikipedia.org], I think it's very likely your Independence War wouldn't have started then (or ever - nothing wrong with that, Australia didn't have a war over its independence and is well and fine independent today, thank you). "Tyranny, oppression, injustice"? Heh, that's what the french told you, that you war was "the incarnation of the Enlightenment Spirit against the English tyranny" (it would have to be kinda ironic to raise against royalty with money provided by a king)
And it's also likely you couldn't maintain your independence, were it not for the french, dutch and spanish to support you afterwards (just to spite the brits, of course). The French even gave you a statue as a reminder to be proud of your achievements.
After that, whenever you went to die over something, it was because you - the people - have been tricked into it, not because you actually wanted it. Even the WWII.
Post 9/11, you de-facto lost heaps of your liberties - I don't see, within the population, any effort to regain them in any way, by any means (ranging from voting persons that support that, political movements, civil street protests, rioting or revolution). It looks you are more afraid of losing jobs than you are afraid of losing your rights and more preoccupied to fight with you fellow than with those who stole your freedoms (thanks God your infighting is using speech only).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:18AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:14AM (7 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @01:29AM (6 children)
Are we still in the context of EV? 'Cause it seems we're talking together and understanding each other separately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @01:51AM (5 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @02:08AM (4 children)
10 amp is not EV
Not, it's not. However it's the limit in which you will start needing to pay attention to the rating of the electronic components you are using and the point in which you need to start thinking twice about controlling the current with a simple mechanical trimpot/rheostat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @02:26AM (3 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @02:48AM (2 children)
Wasted energy because they had it from a thermal engine that generated other on the spot.
A thing that no longer exists when everything you have as an energy source is a battery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday February 14 2020, @03:19AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @03:22AM
Sure, whatever you say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @06:34PM
There's already a movement to create open source control software for all the popular fucking products, though most fucking machines themselves are just motors with a speed dial so DRM or addition software isn't worthwhile. The highest-end machines do use control software, but also don't have DRM though their software is really crappy. Some type of VB.Net monster with a bad UI and communicating with the machine through a serial connection. Most of the time the software fails. Sadly those machines are too expensive for the open source community to work on (around $2,500-$4,000 USD). Most people just build their own non-programmable, fucking machine instead.
There was a patent troll crushing all computer controlled adult devices, but that expired a few years ago. The open source community is now slowly growing. If you're jail breaking every fucking you device you have, please join them.