Chinese vendor Huawei has provided a longer response to US allegations of spying, claiming that it doesn't have the spying capability alleged by the US and pointing out that the US itself has a long history of spying on phone networks.
"As evidenced by the Snowden leaks, the United States has been covertly accessing telecom networks worldwide, spying on other countries for quite some time," Huawei said in a six-paragraph statement sent to news organizations. "The report by the Washington Post this week about how the CIA used an encryption company to spy on other countries for decades is yet additional proof." (That Post report detailed how the CIA bought a company called Crypto AG and used it to spy on communications for decades.)
Huawei's latest statement came in response to a Wall Street Journal report yesterday quoting US officials as saying, "We have evidence that Huawei has the capability secretly to access sensitive and personal information in systems it maintains and sells around the world." The US has been sharing its intelligence with allies as it tries to convince them to stop using Huawei products but still hasn't made the evidence public.
Huawei said:
US allegations of Huawei using lawful interception are nothing but a smokescreen—they don't adhere to any form of accepted logic in the cyber security domain. Huawei has never and will never covertly access telecom networks, nor do we have the capability to do so. The Wall Street Journal is clearly aware that the US government can't provide any evidence to support their allegations, and yet it still chose to repeat the lies being spread by these US officials. This reflects The Wall Street Journal's bias against Huawei and undermines its credibility.
[...]US allegations that Huawei secretly uses backdoors that were designed for law enforcement, if true, would bolster arguments from security experts that it's not possible to build backdoors that can only be accessed by their intended users in law enforcement.
Related Stories
UK reportedly planning to phase out Huawei equipment from its 5G networks
After resisting pressure from the US for months, Prime Minister Boris Johnson is apparently preparing to phase out the use of Huawei equipment from the UK's 5G networks, the Financial Times reported. Citing national security concerns, members of the UK's Conservative party have pushed for Huawei technology to be removed from the UK's 5G infrastructure and the rest of its telecom network by 2023.
[...] Trump reportedly called Johnson earlier this year to discuss the matter, and at least one member of Congress said the US was reconsidering its intelligence partnership with the UK.
Johnson had limited how much Huawei equipment could be used for 5G networks in the UK, banning the use of the company's technology in the most sensitive parts of the network. He said in January that there were not a lot of other options available for the UK's 5G infrastructure, and telecom Vodafone said removing Huawei equipment from its networks would be extremely costly.
See also: Reports: UK to cut Huawei's involvement in 5G network
Boris Johnson forced to reduce Huawei's role in UK's 5G networks
Previously:
U.S. Intelligence Agency Heads Warn Against Using Huawei and ZTE Products
Huawei's Equipment Removed from UK Telecom BT's Network for Emergency Services
EU to Drop Threat of Huawei Ban but Wants 5G Risks Monitored
UK to Toughen Telecoms Security Controls to Shrink 5G Risks
How China Is Building A World-Beating Phone Network
Using Huawei in UK 5G Network 'Madness', Says US
Getting Huawei Out of US Networks Requires Gov't Funding, Senators Say
Huawei Fires Back, Points To US' History Of Spying On Phone Networks
TSMC Dumps Huawei
(Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 14 2020, @01:30AM (4 children)
Nokia and Ericsson both provide 5G gear. The only reason why Hwawei is such a big deal is because its offerings are cheap, and when you're rolling out a prototype network, using cheap shit isn't always the best option backdoors or not -- especially when the country making it is being eaten alive from the inside by weaponized superbugs.
If 5G doesn't work as advertised then those phone carriers pushing it are going to be in a world of customer service shit and may even face lawsuits. And I strongly doubt it will work as advertised when using the millimeter wave spectrum.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @01:43AM (2 children)
You're sounding particularly stupid today. Missed your meds?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @02:03AM
No more stupid than usual, no. Why do you ask?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @04:29AM
Actually, believe it or not, this is one of his more lucid posts. Yeah, surprising, I know.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 14 2020, @02:26AM
The coronavirus is relevant - how? The virus news is little more than a month old at this point, right? The US government declared War on Huawei more than two years ago, right?
And, "cheap" is relative. Pretty much all of the world's electronics are made in China these days, isn't it? OK, not all, but, which companies are offering China-free hardware? None? Yeah, exactly. Huawei is cheaper because they live in the cheapest labor market in the world, and they get subsidies from the Chinese government.
But, I like your bottom line. 5G is pretty obviously just so much hype, with little substance. Just another scam to bilk the public out of their hard-earned money.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday February 14 2020, @01:40AM (1 child)
Do as we say, not as we do.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Fluffeh on Friday February 14 2020, @02:00AM
Actually, I think it's one step further.
"Only we're supposed to be able to do that!"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @01:43AM (7 children)
The NSA was formed pretty much for the purpose of snooping the first transatlantic cable. So yeah, we have been systematically violating the 4th, since the inception of a telecommunications.
Personally I think there is a jealousy thing going on here. The NSA ripped open a phone to splice in a chip and were pissed somebody else beat them to it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @02:00AM (6 children)
The first transatlantic cable [wikipedia.org] was laid between 1854 and 1858.
The NSA was founded in 1952 [wikipedia.org], some 96 years after the cable became operational.
NSA's first forbear, the Cipher Bureau [wikipedia.org] was founded in 1919, some 60+ years after the cable began operations.
Talk about government bureaucracy slowing things down, eh?
Perhaps one might have even *part* of a clue before spouting off? Or is that asking too much?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @02:28AM (2 children)
We're coming for you, Anonymous Coward. The first rule of Four Bears is, nobody talks about Four Bears. - NSA
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @05:28AM
You are so right! Go get 'em tiger! [4bearscasino.com]
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @06:02AM
UGH! Another Aristaph post!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Friday February 14 2020, @06:08AM
America started tapping telegraph lines during their civil war in the 1860's, not too mention sending false information.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @04:32PM (1 child)
Read your history douche.
You aren't half as right as you think you are.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @12:36AM
What isn't true in my post?
Was it the laying of the first transatlantic cable? (1854-1858)
The founding of the NSA? (1952)
Or the founding of the Cipher bureau? (1919)
Please, educate me dickhead. What's that? Everything is accurate? What? There are other people and events and organizations you're talking about that were *not* mentioned by GP or me? I see.
Hmm...so do you blame the CIA for Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo too? Or perhaps the Stasi's role in Carthage's defeat at the hands of Rome?
So I'll say it again. Why don't you get at least *part* of a clue before spouting off, you brain-damaged piece of shit?
(Score: 2) by edIII on Friday February 14 2020, @01:59AM (10 children)
The US has been doing it to everyone else for as long as it could, and Americans aren't exempt either.
However, it's possible for both things to be true at the same time, and that's a hell of a lot more likely than just the US doing it.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by arslan on Friday February 14 2020, @03:00AM (9 children)
Yea, that's my initial reaction as well - Huawei can point to all sort of other entities committing the crime all they want, but that doesn't really absolve them from the allegations.
Its like the support of their claim that they don't have the capability to do it others doing it better - weak sauce.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @04:45AM (2 children)
Well, let us just remember that, for now, it is only "allegations". So far, the US government has yet to show the public any evidence for these claims. I would like to see some real hard evidence, frankly. On the other hand, we already do have evidence that the NSA has been snooping on all our communications for quite some time.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Friday February 14 2020, @04:58PM
And the UK has an institution specifically investigating Huawei's 5G offerings with complete access to source code. Over several years they have not found any evidence of embedded malware.
Sounds like such inspection would be useful with a lot of software we already rely on every day.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday February 14 2020, @08:01PM
As you say, the US subverting hardware and software of espionage purposes is long proven from Mark Klein to Snowden while the allegations against Huawei have no credible evidence yet proposed. But the fact that the United States is already guilty of such behavior is exactly why it feels justified in lodging the allegations. "We did it, so they must be also" is the logical fallacy.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday February 14 2020, @08:05PM (5 children)
But the allegations against Huawei are only allegation, not evidence. (Unlike the opposite where evidence actually exists against the US). Those making the allegation are the ones who have the obligation to actually present evidence if they want the allegations believed.
And I can very much believe Huawei doesn't do it and China doesn't want it done either, because then they capture more market share because Huawei can be trusted. If there wasn't already untrustworthy competition then there would be no impetus to good. But in this case keeping the moral high ground may actually benefit Huawei and, by extension, China.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by arslan on Monday February 17 2020, @02:04AM (4 children)
Completely agree.. except Huawei is now also making allegations. Both need to provide evidence. Not saying Huawei are not allowed to make allegations, they can since they're really just doing unto others and all that shite. Just pointing out things are not mutually exclusive is all - the logic Huawei's allegations that is.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 17 2020, @06:30PM (3 children)
Except that Huawei can point to items outside of themselves proving it. Their allegations are the first two sentences of their press release above:
If you don't think the Snowden leaks proved anything, well, can't help you much more there. The other story in the Washington Post [washingtonpost.com] seems rather compelling. And both are orders of magnitude above, "US Officials claim things about Huawei but are unwilling to put their proof in the public eye," giving even less evidence than they did about Iraqi WMD fraud.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday February 17 2020, @10:08PM (2 children)
Sure. Like I said, what the US gov. did or did not do doesn't mean squat to the allegations against Huawei. Fine, I'll concede the US did all those stuff, in fact I'm firmly in the camp that believe they did. Again, doesn't do squat to the allegations against Huawei.
Its like a rapist's defense against their action is: "Your honor, my accuser is a murderer and rapist!". That is not a defense, that is a smokescreen as per the TFS.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday February 18 2020, @03:14PM (1 child)
Except that no defense is necessary when allegations are made without evidence. It's more like a known murderer and rapist alleging someone else is guilty of rape. Just because the murderer/rapist has murdered and raped does not give them the right to accuse someone else of the same crimes without any evidence. And I think it's fine for the one accused without evidence to point out that the original accuser is in fact already a murderer and rapist, which might color the credibility of such an accusation without evidence.
(And quite aside from that, the fact that nobody else seems to agree with the United States' position, including governments which might well be able to receive classified intelligence that the public cannot, speaks volumes for the credibility of the U.S. as well. Witness Trump's meltdown at Johnson, among other evidence.)
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Tuesday February 18 2020, @11:10PM
I don't disagree with any of that, sounds like you're saying the same thing. It applies to _both_ of them. Just because I called out Huawei specifically doesn't equate to me saying US gets a free pass.
And other governments have banned Huawei (5G) as well like here in Oz, sure they didn't outright confirm the US's allegations, but are taking same action that reflects that allegation.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Friday February 14 2020, @02:36AM (8 children)
It's been widely known amongst techies that the NSA has been spying on us since the 80s, starting with the notorious phone closet in the bay area. The NSA has been caught red handed several times.
Yet some rando Chinese company, whom most people had never heard of until maybe a year ago, is now the Evil Finger in the Pie worldwide. Never mind this company has never been caught using their equipment to spy (carefully worded to ignore what happens in mainland China). Never mind nobody has ever found a backdoor in their equipment.
Never mind they may actually have a better product for less money.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Mykl on Friday February 14 2020, @03:56AM (4 children)
Huawei pointing the finger to the NSA is beside the point.
For most Americans, it's a given that the NSA will be snooping your data, whether legal or not. That much can't be avoided. What we're talking about is (supposedly) putting extra snooping on top of that by adding Huawei gear, and sending data to an additional government (China) as well as the US.
Whether the US is stealing my data or not, I still don't want China (or any other country, for that matter) to collect data about me.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @04:40AM (1 child)
While I agree with you, I also think you need some perspective. China typically looks for things like military and intellectual property secrets. On the other hand, NSA is looking to know about all your communications. Personal, private, business, whatever. Everything. This has been pretty well proven already. Who is the real threat (to you personally) here? And I diagree that this can't be avoided. All it takes is the political will to stop it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @08:41AM
Here's. Since both the military and intellect are N/A, we're safe.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 14 2020, @05:15AM (1 child)
If it's a matter of choice, I'd rather China/Russia/Zimbabwe be spying on me than the NSA or other domestic services. At least until we get the Mossad and the globohomo out of our intelligence agencies and they re-learn how to focus on real threats instead of people voting for the wrong candidate or otherwise critical of Israel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @01:25PM
Those things do not go on black market for sale on their own, you know. Governments do not operate malware rings, just make their criminals an offer they cannot refuse, and it is not state coffers that are paying them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @05:58AM (2 children)
> Never mind nobody has ever found a backdoor in their equipment.
Oh, right. Those secure enclaves which authorize updates peripheral firmware and processor microcode are locked with a key given only to the hardware purchaser. And never used for security or performance updates with something only Huawei-signed.
And right, they're violating Chinese law by not only not retaining those keys, but by not sharing them with the Party.
Right.
Can you buy my bridge?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Friday February 14 2020, @03:26PM (1 child)
Um...parent didn't actually make any of these claims. It hasn't been *proved* that Huawei is doing anything nefarious, while it has been with the NSA. And yet the NSA want us to trust them.
If Huawei is spying on people, doesn't mean that they aren't also helping the Chinese government do so. Compare how pretty much any rando American company is more than happy to start throwing private user data at our own government if The Man coughs in their general direction (with the possible exception of Apple).
The line of bull we're being fed is that the NSA are the good guys, and everybody else is bad. I assume *everybody* is bad, including the NSA.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @08:39AM
So far all I've seen is stuff like this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/us-gave-allies-evidence-that-huawei-can-snoop-on-phone-networks-wsj-says/ [arstechnica.com]
Basically claims without any real evidence. Which is strange considering all the hackers out there looking at such stuff. Imagine being the hacker releasing hard proof of Huawei's spying.
I'm sure there are the usual obvious stuff like "secret" admin accounts: https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-threat-isnt-backdoors-its-bugs/ [wired.com]
But that's the same for Cisco stuff too: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html [tomshardware.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @05:54AM (1 child)
Why isn't Drump spouting off about this Washington Post article being anti-American propaganda the from known Left-loving mainstream media? Surely this is the time to call "fake news!" to preserve the nation's global standing in international eyes, right?
Right?
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday February 14 2020, @05:09PM
What Washington post story? The one we have is from ArsTechnica.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @08:18AM
I was sure my first trip to the zoo as a 70 year old would be boring.
Not at all!
I was picked from a crowd of tourists to insert my albino penis into an elephant's anus.
I never knew home until that moment. The moment I dumped my load into a feisty elephant's anus.
I disassociated a bit and turned into bugs bunny and the elephant turned into pludo.
I was so confused until it was explained to me that I had actually made sweet love to a howler monkey.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @09:03AM
maybe this wowway "attack" isn't about the present but more about the future.
the "security agencies" of the country now that telecoms will keep exploding (growth).
maybe the wowway equipment doesnt have backdoors (just software error like any software does.) but if they cede the field to woway today and 5G and its deformed sibbling IOT take off to become a gazillion machine network THEN the paranoia will reach new heights. now the lever on the chinese side is definitly longer.
i suppose wowway did get an offer to go to bed with usa intelligence but declined because of all the STDs they might catch?