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posted by martyb on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:07AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the don't-spy-like-I-do dept.

The US is charging Huawei with racketeering

Ratcheting up its pressure campaign against Huawei and its affiliates, the Department of Justice and the FBI announced today that it has brought 16 charges against Huawei in a sprawling case with major geopolitical implications (you can read the full 56-page indictment here).

Huawei is being charged with conspiracy to violate the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) statute. The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei's business.

An example of this activity is provided in the indictment. Described as "Company 1," Huawei is alleged to have stolen source code for Company 1's routers, which it then used in its own products.

[...] Huawei is also alleged to have engaged in more simple forms of industrial espionage. While at a trade show in Chicago, a Huawei-affiliated engineer "... was discovered in the middle of the night after the show had closed for the day in the booth of a technology company ... removing the cover from a networking device and taking photographs of the circuitry inside. Individual-3 wore a badge listing his employer as 'Weihua,'

[...] Together, the indictment lists multiple examples of Huawei's alleged conspiracy to pilfer U.S. intellectual property.

It's a good thing that the United States would never do 'bad things' or act in a manner like this.


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  • (Score: 5, Touché) by Bot on Saturday February 15 2020, @11:39AM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Saturday February 15 2020, @11:39AM (#958465) Journal

    * huawei entered the chat
    cisco:wtf doj
    DOJ: hm huawei, you spy!
    huawei: one sec, afk
    * innocent_looking_asian_intern left the chat
    huawei: me no spy
    DOJ: hm huawei, you racketeer!
    mighty-m$: hey cool down DOJ let's not create precedents shall we haha
    apple: haha
    MAFIAA: haha

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by BsAtHome on Saturday February 15 2020, @12:13PM

      by BsAtHome (889) on Saturday February 15 2020, @12:13PM (#958469)

      Meanwhile, the Chinese have created a fibertap at the NSA fibertab where NSA backdoored cisco and juniper equipment have been employed.
      And then the Americans have created a fibertunnel through the great firewall, which bends its ways around and listens in on the competition, just when an army of keyboard pushers are generation plausible stories and designs.
      The Russians are, meanwhile, "informing" us all, through their fibertaps, interjecting real stories about the current state of affairs.
      The North Korean are slightly bewildered and simply skim the resources of all others. No need to steal technology, money will just do fine, thank you.
      The Europeans are lifting their finger and swinging it with the words "don't do that, be nice to each other", while the Germans decrypt the neighbors.

      Oh my, the irony...

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday February 15 2020, @11:43AM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Saturday February 15 2020, @11:43AM (#958466) Journal

    >a badge listing his employer as 'Weihua'...

    once again reality beats satire huehuehue

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:34PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:34PM (#958553)

      In China it's pronounced weiweiwei

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @12:08PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @12:08PM (#958468)

    Chinamen put their last name first, first name last.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:38PM (#958613)

      China is Big Endian and the Western Worid is Little Endian?

      That explains a lot. America should remember what the Big Indian did to the little indian on his way from 'Sea to Shining Sea' :)

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:27PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:27PM (#958505)

    Huawei raped me.

  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:37PM (1 child)

    by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:37PM (#958507) Journal

    when will Microsoft be Company 2?

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:45PM (#958614)

      Microsoft was caught back in 2014 trying to insert Hamas supporters [ukmediawatch.org] into a US Army "Serious Games" training program that they had found out about by getting jobs in the State Department. There was a suspected Saudi spy on the Microsoft board, a Microsoft attorney was working for Qatar, two other Microsoft attorneys were backing the Iranian and Saudi spy rings in San Francisco, and Microsoft's open-source strategy team had just returned from the Middle East with Shanley Kane and her fake feminists who started taking over open source projects. The feds cracked down hard... on anyone talking about it.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Rupert Pupnick on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:55PM (17 children)

    by Rupert Pupnick (7277) on Saturday February 15 2020, @02:55PM (#958516) Journal

    The theft of US intellectual property is happening in hardware on literally an industrial scale, and it is 100% enabled by the “victim” companies themselves every time they decide to have volume manufacturing in China. Manufacturers get nearly complete drawing packages including schematics which are needed for production test.

    China may be stealing, but the US is enabling.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by physicsmajor on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:33PM (3 children)

      by physicsmajor (1471) on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:33PM (#958534)

      This is the correct response. Not new, but I find it quite interesting that the DoJ is potentially interested in enforcement. Chinese theft of trade secrets has been business as usual for a very long time.

      Moving manufacturing to China generally results in 1) Cheaper products, shortly followed by 2) Nearly imperceptibly different knockoffs, probably on the same tooling in the same factory after hours, for which you don't get a thin dime.

      • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:55PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:55PM (#958541)

        Nobody is stopping the companies who have all the great intellect to sell their products to poor countries when their production has becomes cheaper and it has become profitable. Instead, the are happy selling it to only rich countries because that means higher profit margin i.e. Bigger war chest. I am very happy that Chinese are at least willing to sell to the poor. They have done more to increase the living standard of this world than gun selling "world-leaders".

        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:40PM (1 child)

          by Bot (3902) on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:40PM (#958555) Journal

          Hello, soldier of the 50c army.
          You are among friends. Most of us are acutely aware that what china is doing now is exactly what the USA did, copying ideas and stuff from the europeans. Europeans stole the silk from the Chinese. The smarter among us also know that the current state of affairs (Soviet empire putting itself on sale without firing a shot, west helping the Chinese, Chinese helping africa and so on) cannot be explained in terms of nations, but needs a superior system, mirrored by the financial system, dictates what political leaders can or cannot do.
          So, let us have a lil fun on huawei, we don't peculiarly hate them anyway.

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @01:29PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @01:29PM (#958776)

            I am not complaining about copyright. As someone who has actually known artists, the world will be a better place if artists had more money and the market valued their work more than it does latest CPU.

            What I am saying is that money isn't actually reaching the pockets of the creators, isn't it? Instead the cheaper production is being used to fund war machine and that should be the focus of our discourse, not who stole from whom.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @04:41PM (#958536)

      It's a western business culture issue. Even worse is when they put all the family IP jewels on the table for the Chinese to steal in a "joint venture", in exchange for a bit of hospitality and stroking of egos, while they get all starry-eyed with dreams of "billions of customers".

      It's what we get for letting MBAs who bear no personal risk pervade all key positions in industry. At the end of the day, if they fuck up and everyone is out of a job, they will still be rich.

    • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by legont on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:05PM (10 children)

      by legont (4179) on Saturday February 15 2020, @05:05PM (#958545)

      This was always allowed by the US and not only for China. For example, we had no problem with Soviets copying IBM-360. The reason was that copying takes time and effort away from development and the thief is always somewhat behind, while the real creator takes the next step.
      What happened now is that China went ahead with creating new and better technology and it does it faster than the US. This is the game changer that Trump is trying to stop; probably too late though. Interestingly enough, India, which supposedly has better position, can't do it. I guess Chinees political system is more progress friendly.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 15 2020, @06:57PM (7 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 15 2020, @06:57PM (#958572) Homepage Journal

        China went ahead with creating new and better technology and it does it faster than the US.

        I have doubts about that. They are most definitely doing it cheaper, but new and better? I don't think they are there yet, actually. Give it another ten to twenty years, and they'll be there. Right now, they are beginning to equal what the US is capable of.

        We seem to be losing capability, while China gains. Ten years? They should be about equal to us across the board. Twenty years? They'll probably pull ahead, wit the newer and better.

        I know that when we get a mold in from China, tooling has to do a helluva lot of work on the mold before we can shoot good parts with it. The primary problem is, China doesn't use the same steel that the US or Europe, or even South America uses. You get some stupid statement that "This steel equivalent to " which ever steel you had specified. In our case, we expect a mold to warp so much, when it heats and cools. The cheap replacement "equivalent" warps about five times as much, and it's near impossible to machine it so that parts are within specs. Warp is warp, and if you manage to machine it away, it's a lot of luck, a lot of skill, and a blessing from the Flying Spaghetti Monster or some such.

        --
        Make an actual interesting, germane, and relevant point and you may get away with Flamebait - 'Zumi
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @07:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @07:32PM (#958586)

          yes, cheap metal is a big way they cheat on everything they sell. it's going to be interesting if there's ever a war and all of america's chinese made stuff falls apart.

        • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday February 16 2020, @02:24AM (2 children)

          by legont (4179) on Sunday February 16 2020, @02:24AM (#958662)

          They are most definitely doing it cheaper, but new and better?

          Off cource China is not doing better everywhere - she just started. China have few advantage areas at the moment, but one of them is G5 where Huavei beat everybody by at least 2 years, possibly by 3 to 5. If the whole world adopts China mobile tech, the US will lose it's long enjoyed ability to spy on everybody. One can't underestimate the consequences.
          There are and will be others.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @08:55AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @08:55AM (#958744)

          There's lots of lying and cheating in China. But I doubt meeting your mold requirements is beyond China tech and capabilities.

          China likely has difficulty with certain jet engine or rocket parts: https://www.inkstonenews.com/tech/chinese-spy-accused-trying-steal-us-trade-secrets/article/2168111 [inkstonenews.com]
          https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2127796/china-talks-sale-jet-engine-technology-germany [scmp.com]

          But given that Apple etc can successfully get precision stuff made in China I'm pretty sure there are people and factories in China who can produce the molds you want to the quality you want and maybe even still at a significantly cheaper price than the USA. The issue is finding them :). And of course closing your eyes to the substandard working conditions for the workers.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 16 2020, @09:59AM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 16 2020, @09:59AM (#958748) Homepage Journal

            Perhaps your assessment is accurate. Someone in China has the ability to manufacture the molds we need, to the standards we want. We're just dealing with the wrong suppliers.

            Then again, there IS a lag between the time China's IP thieves acquire trade secrets and whatnot, and the time that those secrets are implemented. There is another lag between implementation, and successful implementation.

            Someone, somewhere, probably has some kind of a formula to figure out what those lag times are. I basically pulled my twenty years out of thin air. I can partly justify my twenty years, with the fact that it takes time for a concept to roll from our engineers, through corporate, then back out to us, in the manufacturing end of things. I'm talking months, to years, inside of a cooperative environment, with no outside, unwelcome influences. (Unless of course, we consider corporate headquarters to be hostile. ;^) )

            --
            Make an actual interesting, germane, and relevant point and you may get away with Flamebait - 'Zumi
            • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday February 17 2020, @04:45AM

              by legont (4179) on Monday February 17 2020, @04:45AM (#959030)

              Lets not forget that Steve Jobs tried to manufacture in the US, twice; and failed both times. It was not only a question of price - he simply was not able to do it. The was no - and perhaps is no - technology that would allow him to build Mac and iPhone here.
              I do believe though that if he were forced to manufacture in the US, he would come up with required automation. It would be way more difficult and longer process, but everybody would win eventually.

              --
              "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @01:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 16 2020, @01:35PM (#958777)

        India can do it, but it is more expensive because China has complete control over its population and hence the market. India has a democratic market (although largely domestic).

        If anyone is not aware of macroeconomic terminology, a non-free market is has pricing issues. The Chinese government controls it and hence is in a unique position to provide the cheapest labor.

      • (Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Sunday February 16 2020, @06:18PM

        by Rupert Pupnick (7277) on Sunday February 16 2020, @06:18PM (#958863) Journal

        I disagree with most of what you said with one exception: giving China the opportunity to copy American tech can in many cases deflect them from trying to leapfrog US R&D. One of the main problems with this approach is that with the end of Moore’s Law, the US technological lead in consumer and industrial electronic technology has narrowed considerably.

        I personally witnessed the “let them copy” approach at a company that made high speed O/E transducers in the telecom sector. The product line mainly consisted of pluggable modules with a proprietary DSP ASIC inside. When the next generation was deployed, the old ASIC was sold to Chinese competitors in the module space. Management was betting that they could make some extra money on ASICs without the competition catching up in the module market. This probably did boost the bottom line at the expense of giving up old IP.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @07:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @07:35PM (#958587)

      yes, i've been complaining about this since i first heard people whining about "IP theft" and especially "forced technology transfer". No one is forcing you to be vapid whores. I don't blame china for the latter. sounds like they are doing their jobs for their people. i wouldn't make your shit if i can't get the specs to build it for myself later either. fuck you. if you don't want to share don't come trying to exploit my cheap labor! build it yourself, you fucking traitors.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @06:48PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @06:48PM (#958570)

    i think the translation for "huawei" is "copied all blueprints on a nortel office printer and travelled to china the next day after the first dot-com bubble"

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Saturday February 15 2020, @08:37PM (2 children)

    by RamiK (1813) on Saturday February 15 2020, @08:37PM (#958595)

    First thing I did when I got my first EEPROM reader and SOIC8 adapter was to read and mount my ISP provided router's flash on my linux workstation and notice it's all FOSS, BusyBox and barely obfuscated OpenWRT bits and pieces.

    Btw, second thing I did was to publish the undocumented telnet user name and password (that was naturally stored in plain text) only to realize someone beat me to it by 3 days :/

    --
    compiling...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:47PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 15 2020, @10:47PM (#958616)

      It would be doing a copyright infringement suit in international court against china for all the open source software, demanding the GPL required distribution. If this was done across China's technology industry with import bans for any technology failing to meet the requirements, it would do effectively what they claim to want while not making it look (as) vindictive. Furthermore, once China either aquiesced and ensured the data was available, or didn't and made it clear they were against intellectual property enforcement, the US could then pilfer china's technology without authorization.

      Really though, as someone said in a comment I read a while back: China is for manufacturing parts cheaply that require hand finishing in your country of origin. That way when they copy your design, as they will, all they will be offering the customer is unfinished garbage that doesn't clutter up your own support lines because yours is finished and certified locally.

      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday February 16 2020, @02:52AM

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Sunday February 16 2020, @02:52AM (#958666) Journal
        The GPL is unenforceable in China . You would have to go after the importers, and they've already covered themselves with copies of the GPL software on their websites. This is really really old news. Like turn of the century, if you were paying attention at the time.
        --
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