Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

Politics

Trump to Halt Funding to WHO

posted by martyb on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:26PM   Printer-friendly
from the the-sordid-art-of-deflection dept.
News

c0lo writes:

BBC: Coronavirus: US to halt funding to WHO, says Trump

US President Donald Trump has said he is going to halt funding to the World Health Organization (WHO) because it has "failed in its basic duty" in its response to the coronavirus outbreak.

[...] Mr Trump has been under fire for his own handling of the pandemic.

He has sought to deflect persistent criticism that he acted too slowly to stop the virus's spread by pointing to his decision in late January to place restrictions on travel from China.

[...] The US is the global health body's largest single funder and gave it more than $400m in 2019.

A decision on whether the US resumes funding will be made after the review, which Mr Trump said would last 60 to 90 days.

[...] China gave about $86m in 2018-19; UK gives most of any country apart from the US

[...] The organisation launched an appeal in March for $675m to help fight the pandemic and is reported to be planning a fresh appeal for at least $1bn.

Reuters: Trump halts World Health Organization funding amid coronavirus pandemic

President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he would halt funding to the World Health Organization over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic while his administration reviews its response to the global crisis.

Trump told a White House news conference the WHO had “failed in its basic duty and it must be held accountable.” He said the group had promoted China’s “disinformation” about the virus that likely led to a wider outbreak of the virus than otherwise would have occurred.

[...] The hold on funding was expected. Trump has been increasingly critical of the organization as the global health crisis has continued, and he has reacted angrily to criticism of his administration’s response.

[...] U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said on Tuesday it was “not the time” to reduce resources for the body.

“Now is the time for unity and for the international community to work together in solidarity to stop this virus and its shattering consequences,” he said.

American Medical Association President Dr. Patrice Harris called it “a dangerous step in the wrong direction that will not make defeating COVID-19 easier” and urged Trump to reconsider.

[...] The Republican president recently accused the WHO of being too lenient with China in the earliest days of the crisis, despite having himself praised China in January for its response and transparency.

Trump has made frequent use of scapegoats during his short political career. He often lashes out at the media, Democrats, or others when he feels attacked or under pressure.

The Guardian: Trump turns against WHO to mask his own stark failings on Covid-19 crisis

Donald Trump’s declared suspension of funding of the World Health Organisation in the midst of a pandemic is confirmation – if any were needed – that he is in search of scapegoats for his administration’s much delayed and chaotic response to the crisis.

The US is the WHO’s biggest donor, with funding over $400m a year in both assessed contributions (membership fees) and donations – though it is actually $200m in arrears. [pdf]

Theoretically the White House cannot block funding of international institutions mandated by Congress. But the administration has found ways around such constitutional hurdles on other issues – by simply failing to disburse funds or apply sanctions, for example.

The funding could be formally rescinded, but that would require Senate approval, or “reprogrammed” by being diverted to another purpose that the White House could argue is consistent with the will of Congress.

[...] The WHO director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, had to fly to Beijing to meet Xi Jinping on 29 January to negotiate entry and information sharing. A WHO team was allowed to visit Wuhan on 22 February. Tedros has been criticised for his flattery of Xi and the Chinese response, in the face of Beijing’s obstructionism and cover-up attempts. His defenders said that such diplomacy was the price for entry.

Trump did more than his own fair share of Xi flattery. On 24 January, the president tweeted “China has been working very hard to contain the coronavirus … The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency.”

The claim that the delay in the WHO acquiring samples crippled the international response is also false. Chinese scientists publicly released the genetic sequence of Covid-19 on 11 January.

[...] By early February the WHO was in a position to distribute a Covid-19 test worldwide, but the US government opted not to have it fast-tracked through approval. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) instead produced its own test at about the same time, but it was flawed and had to be recalled. US testing would be set back more than six weeks compared to the rest of the world.

While virtually no testing was under way in the US throughout February, Trump assumed the consequently low number of confirmed US cases meant that his country had somehow escaped. “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA,” he boasted on 24 February, nearly a month after the WHO declaration of emergency. “We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health [Organisation] have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Original Submission

Related Stories

Trump has Officially Begun to Withdraw the US from the World Health Organization as Pandemic Spikes 199 comments

Booga1 writes:

USA Today reports Trump has Officially Begun to Withdraw the US From the World Health Organization as Pandemic Spikes:

The Trump administration has officially begun to withdraw the United States from the World Health Organization, even as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to grip the globe and infections spike in many states across the U.S.

Congress received formal notification of the decision on Tuesday, more than a month after President Donald Trump announced his intention to end the U.S. relationship with the WHO and blasted the multilateral institution as a tool of China. The White House said the withdrawal would take effect on July 6, 2021.

[...] The formal withdrawal comes as the United States nears 3 million reported coronavirus cases and more than 130,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University data. Globally, there have been 11.6 million cases and almost 540,000 deaths.

Additional Coverage:
Trump administration moves to formally withdraw US from WHO
Trump administration begins formal withdrawal from World Health Organization
Trump Begins Process Of U.S. Withdrawal From World Health Organization

Previously:
(2020-05-20) Trump Threatens to Take US Out of WHO Entirely and Stop All US Funding
(2020-04-15) Trump to Halt Funding to WHO

Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Trump to Halt Funding to WHO | Log In/Create an Account | Top | 278 comments | Search Discussion
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) 2 3

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:26PM (59 children)

    by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:26PM (#983187) Journal

    Trump’s critique of WHO may be a diversion, but it resonates beyond the White House [washingtonpost.com]

    In the early days of the crisis, the WHO amplified Chinese claims and figures without signaling that they could be inaccurate. The organization was slow to address the risk of human-to-human transmission, slow to declare a public health emergency and slow to use the term pandemic.

    Yet it was quick to praise Beijing. As evidence mounted that China silenced whistleblowers and undercounted cases, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO’s director general, continued to heap compliments on Beijing and dodged questions about worrying problems with the Chinese response.

    “You had the authority, you had the ability to challenge China, to question China as to what they were doing, and you needed to do that for global health,” said David Fidler, an adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who has written about and worked with the WHO for years, referring to the organization. “You failed to do it.”

    Criticism about how the WHO handled China is resonating well beyond the White House. Japan’s deputy Prime Minister recently called the WHO the “China Health Organization.” Nearly 1 million people have signed an online petition calling for Tedros to resign.

    The WHO and China: Dereliction of Duty [cfr.org]

    Dr. Tedros’ inaction stands in stark contrast to the WHO’s actions during the 2003 SARS outbreak in China. Then WHO DG Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland made history by declaring the WHO’s first travel advisory in 55 years which recommended against travel to and from the disease epicenter in southern China. Dr. Brundtland also criticized China for endangering global health by attempting to cover up the outbreak through its usual playbook of arresting whistleblowers and censoring media.

    What has changed in the nearly two decades since the SARS epidemic? As always, it is important to follow the money. Since its founding, the WHO has required voluntary budgetary contributions to meet its broad mandate. In recent years, the WHO has grown more reliant upon these funds to address budget deficits. Countries’ assessed contributions have grown by only 3% since 2014. Extrabudgetary voluntary contributions have grown by 18% from $3.9 billion in 2014-15 to nearly $4.7 billion in 2018-19. This dependence on voluntary contributions leaves the WHO highly susceptible to the influence of individual countries or organizations.

    For its part, China’s WHO contributions have grown by 52% since 2014 to approximately $86 million. This is largely due to China’s increase in assessed contributions which are based on a country’s economic development and population. However, China has also slightly increased voluntary contributions from $8.7 million in 2014 to approximately $10.2 million in 2019. While this pales in comparison to the United States’ 2018-19 contribution of $893 million, China’s growing contributions come as its influence across the UN is rising just as U.S. leadership is declining. Going forward, China might appear to be a more reliable partner for organizations dependent on members’ financial support like the WHO.

    China was also an important ally of Tedros in the WHO’s DG election in 2017. Months before the election, Tedros was invited to speak at Peking University where he called for stronger cooperation between China and the Global South on health issues. China’s support for Tedros paid off immediately. The day after his electoral victory, Tedros confirmed to Chinese state-media that he and the WHO will continue to support the “One China” principle, which recognizes the government in Beijing as the legitimate Chinese government. Three years later, Tedros’ enduring support of China’s response to COVID-19 shows that their early support for him is still paying dividends.

    How WHO Became China’s Coronavirus Accomplice [foreignpolicy.com]

    While the rising number of cases elsewhere shows that China isn’t alone in failing in the initial stages of an outbreak, the full story of the Chinese loss will probably never be known—and certainly not recognized by WHO or other bodies.

    One reason is that official data from China is often highly dubious—which can lead to ill-advised health policies in other countries, since studies based on information from China are the first used to understand COVID-19. Countless cases of people dying at home in Wuhan—some being described in social media posts—will probably never go into the statistics. And while a report by Caixin on the Chinese province of Heilongjiang said that a considerable percentage of asymptomatic cases has not been reported—which amounts to about 50 percent more known infections in China, according to a South China Morning Post report on classified government data—WHO takes numbers reported by Beijing at face value.

    “I thought the greatest success of the Chinese party-state was in getting the WHO to focus on the positive sides of China’s responses and ignore the negative sides of the responses,” said Steve Tsang, director of the China Institute at the SOAS University of London. “With the WHO presenting China’s responses in a positive light, the Chinese government is able to make its propaganda campaign to ignore its earlier mistakes appear credible and to ignore the human, societal, and economic costs of its responses.”

    [...] WHO also left many questions open about how exactly public engagement was managed in its report. Chinese people have reacted “with courage and conviction,” it says; they have “accepted and adhered to the starkest of containment measures.” While this is probably true for many, others were likely motivated by a statement of the Supreme People’s Court: People carrying the virus who don’t follow quarantine restrictions “face jail terms ranging from three to 10 years if the consequence is not serious,” it says. Otherwise, they could face a life sentence or death.

    How China Deceived the WHO [theatlantic.com]

    Back in January, when the pandemic now consuming the world was still gathering force, a Berkeley research scientist named Xiao Qiang was monitoring China’s official statements about a new coronavirus then spreading through Wuhan and noticed something disturbing. Statements made by the World Health Organization, the international body that advises the world on handling health crises, often echoed China’s messages. “Particularly at the beginning, it was shocking when I again and again saw WHO’s [director-general], when he spoke to the press … almost directly quoting what I read on the Chinese government’s statements,” he told me.

    The most notorious example came in the form of a single tweet from the WHO account on January 14: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus.” That same day, the Wuhan Health Commission’s public bulletin declared, “We have not found proof for human-to-human transmission.” But by that point even the Chinese government was offering caveats not included in the WHO tweet. “The possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be excluded,” the bulletin said, “but the risk of sustained transmission is low.”

    [...] The WHO, meanwhile, was getting its information from the same Chinese authorities who were misinforming their own public, and then offering it to the world with its own imprimatur. On January 20, a Chinese official confirmed publicly for the first time that the virus could indeed spread among humans, and within days locked down Wuhan. But by then it was too late.

    It took another week for the WHO to declare the spread of the virus a global health emergency—during which time Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO’s director-general, visited China and praised the country’s leadership for “setting a new standard for outbreak response.” Another month and a half went by before the WHO called COVID-19 a pandemic, at which point the virus had killed more than 4,000 people, and had infected 118,000 people across nearly every continent.

    China defends the WHO after Trump — and others — say it is deferring to Beijing [cnbc.com]

    Tedros also lashed out at Taiwan for what he said were months of racist, personal attacks ⁠— a claim Taiwan said was “baseless” and demanded an apology for.

    Taipei then released what it said was an email that had signaled human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus as early as Dec. 31⁠ — a claim the WHO has contested. The U.S. Department of State piled on, asking why the WHO did not act on Taiwan’s information, the AFP reported.

    [...] At the Munich Security Conference in mid-February, Tedros said “China has bought the world time.” In contrast, he “has been quick” in criticizing other countries for their responses to the outbreak, Collins added.

    [...] “Ironically, Taiwan’s status as a ‘Chinese province’ means its own information was officially ignored,” Francoise Godement, senior advisor at Institut Montaigne in France, wrote in a March blog post.

    Godement said explanations are required for why such a large U.N. agency with some of the world’s most extensive experience of epidemics and emergency responses “fell into this trap.”

    The WHO made mistakes, but it's China that must be held accountable [thehill.com]

    China is seeking to rewrite the pandemic narrative. It is deleting files, silencing critics, and carrying out viral social media campaigns in an attempt to define accountability — and culpability — on its own terms, going as far as to suggest that the United States was responsible for unleashing the virus.

    The stakes are huge. How this plays out will define whether the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is able to exploit the global pandemic to consolidate its power at home and abroad, or whether it faces a reckoning.

    An act of blind trust and solidarity with the WHO director in response to Donald Trump’s attacks, however well intentioned, emboldens Beijing — it is a welcome diversion.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:29PM (53 children)

      by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:29PM (#983192) Journal

      Blaming the WHO and China Is Not Scapegoating [politico.com]

      There’s no doubt that Trump is always inclined to shift blame when possible (and even when it isn’t). He’ll never take ownership of the testing debacle at the outset of the administration’s coronavirus response or admit it was wrong and foolish initially to minimize the virus, as he tried to change the media narrative and talk up the stock market.

      Yet none of this detracts from the force of his critiques of China (although he blows hot and cold on that) and the WHO, which are at the center of this international catastrophe and must be held to account.

      Without China’s deceit and WHO’s solicitude for Beijing, the outbreak might have been more limited, and the world at the very least would have had more time to react to the virus. China committed unforgivable sins of commission, affirmatively lying about the outbreak and punishing doctors and disappearing journalists who told the truth, whereas the WHO committed sins of omission—it lacked independence and courage at a moment of great consequence.

      In effect, China and the WHO worked together to expose the rest of the world to the virus, at the same time they downplayed its dangers.

      China acted as you’d expect. Countries that run gulags for religious minorities typically aren’t noted for their good governance and transparency. Chernobyl-type cover-ups are what they do. The purpose of the Chinese Communist Party isn’t to protect its citizens, let alone the welfare of other countries, but to do whatever seems best-suited to maintain its dictatorial grip on power at any given moment.

      China didn’t warn public of likely pandemic for a pivotal 6 days, AP report shows [usatoday.com]

      In the six days after top Chinese officials secretly determined they likely were facing a pandemic from a new coronavirus, the city of Wuhan at the epicenter of the disease hosted a mass banquet for tens of thousands of people, and millions began traveling through for Lunar New Year celebrations.

      President Xi Jinping warned the public on the seventh day, Jan. 20. But by that time, more than 3,000 people had been infected during almost a week of public silence, according to internal documents obtained by The Associated Press and expert estimates based on retrospective infection data.

      Timeline: The early days of China's coronavirus outbreak and cover-up [axios.com]

      Why it matters: A study published in March indicated that if Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95% and its geographic spread limited.

      This timeline, compiled from information reported by the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the South China Morning Post and other sources, shows that China's cover-up and the delay in serious measures to contain the virus lasted about three weeks.

      Free bonus: China’s top official in Hong Kong pushes for national security law [theguardian.com]
      Nnevvy: Chinese troll campaign on Twitter exposes a potentially dangerous disconnect with the wider world [cnn.com]
      France summons Chinese envoy after coronavirus 'slur' [theguardian.com]

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:57PM (42 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:57PM (#983212) Journal

        Yes, the W.H.O should have deployed their shock troops to force the authoritarian nation of China to tell the truth.

        Meanwhile, the W.H.O was warning us about this virus while Trump was still calling it a hoax.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:08PM (21 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:08PM (#983219) Journal

          Are you joking?

          https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fworld%2Fworld-health-organization-january-tweet-china-human-transmission-coronavirus [twitter.com]

          When WHO was writing killer (literally) tweets, even the Chinese sources it based that claim on added some CYA about preliminary info. Not WHO though. While WHO doesn't have shock troops and can't force China to do anything at all -- one would expect it to act slightly more responsibly than as a pro-China propagandist. I mean seriously, WHO would make big-tobacco funded researchers of the 60s blush and look away in embarrassment.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:16PM (16 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:16PM (#983223) Journal

            They reported that there was no clear evidence back when there was no clear evidence.

            Once they found clear evidence, they reported it.

            If there was all this clear evidence back in January why don't you provide a citation of it.

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:39PM (15 children)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:39PM (#983244) Journal

              Except there was clear evidence: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-didn-t-warn-public-of-likely-pandemic-for-6-key-days/ar-BB12DU9q?ocid=bingcoronaviruslinks [msn.com]

              In the six days after top Chinese officials secretly determined they likely were facing a pandemic from a new coronavirus, the city of Wuhan at the epicenter of the disease hosted a mass banquet for tens of thousands of people; millions began traveling through for Lunar New Year celebrations.

              President Xi Jinping warned the public on the seventh day, Jan. 20. But by then, more than 3,000 people had been infected during almost a week of public silence, according to internal documents obtained by The Associated Press and estimates based on retrospective infection data.

              ...

              The documents show that the head of China’s National Health Commission, Ma Xiaowei, laid out a grim assessment of the situation in a confidential Jan. 14 teleconference with provincial health officials. A memo states that the teleconference was held to convey instructions on the coronavirus from President Xi Jinping, Premier Li Keqiang and Vice Premier Sun Chunlan, but does not specify what those instructions were.

              “The epidemic situation is still severe and complex, the most severe challenge since SARS in 2003, and is likely to develop into a major public health event,” the memo cites Ma as saying.

              • (Score: 2, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:24PM (14 children)

                by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:24PM (#983270) Journal

                That's evidence that China lied to WHO which was my entire point.

                • (Score: 5, Insightful) by slinches on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:36PM (11 children)

                  by slinches (5049) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:36PM (#983278)

                  What good is an organization that just parrots lies without verification from a country with a history of providing false info for their own benefit?

                  • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:47PM (9 children)

                    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:47PM (#983288) Journal

                    Saying they had no evidence when they had no evidence (because China was hiding it) is not a lie.

                    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:28PM (8 children)

                      by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:28PM (#983307) Journal

                      You are being intentionally obtuse. Take these two statements:

                      1) [RANDO] The virus is a hoax.
                      2) [EXPERT] There is no evidence to support person to person transmission.

                      #1 is clear but not likely given much weight because of a lack of credibility. In contrast, #2 has built into it a whole slew of assumptions enhancing credibility and very clearly implies that COVID-19 just isn't that big a deal. Kind of like how astrophysicist might say: "there is no evidence to support a flat earth hypothesis, we're scientists, this is our specialty, we know our shit." Most people are going to take that at face value because of the pedigree of the speaker. Apparently though, when WHO says something, we must treat their pronouncements with the same skepticism we'd treat anything Alex Jones says. This is an important realization because if WHO is the Alex Jones of public health, what the fuck are we doing paying them?

                      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:14AM (7 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:14AM (#983329)

                        You're just desparate to give Trump a scapegoat. Care to discuss the verified lies Trump told that went counter to all the intelligence and recommendations from our own agencies and the WHO?

                        Not gonna hold my breath waiting for a reply :|

                        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:30AM (6 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:30AM (#983353)

                          I don't care about Trump. Didn't vote for him, will be voting 3d party yet again in all likelihood. What galls me is the level of self-righteousness his opponents engage in when those opponents are either no better or worse. It galls me that people call him a fascist and yet Obama created the practice of due process free execution of American citizens based on the content of youtube vids (speech), but gets treated like Jesus 2.0 instead of a war criminal. It particularly galls me that the media is so glaringly partisan. It might gall me enough to vote Trump out of spite, but time will tell on that count. It infuriates me that the best the DNC can do (aside from trying reignite the cold war with a nuclear power), after three fucking years, is come up with nothing but a creepy dementia patient as "opposition".

                          Trump could have been way better on this CV19 thing. He wasn't and that's really sad. But lets put him in context with Biden or Pelosi or DeBlasio or Cuomo -- it makes me livid. And then you have the press -- CNN headline [msn.com] today: "Prominent scientist have bad news for the White House about coronavirus antibody tests" -- you fucking partisan self-satisfied douche, it's bad news for Americans. The difficulty in creating a test isn't something to jump for joy about because you get a stupid fucking snipe point, but that's the level of Democrats today. Total fucking cunts.

                          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:09AM (5 children)

                            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:09AM (#983376)

                            Yes, it is bad news for Americans, but in the context of the article, it is bad news for the White House because they're the ones who keep telling the lies that "millions" of people have been tested and that "anyone who wants a test can get one" and that "these tests have really been ramping up" all the time. Nobody is jumping for joy. They are doing a service to self-ignorant dumbfucks like you by pointing out how absolutely shitty the situation has been, and how there has been absolutely no fucking leadership from the top.

                            "I'm not responsible for anything"

                            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:29PM (4 children)

                              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:29PM (#983656) Homepage Journal

                              Yeah, it's a shame all them folks dying cause they couldn't get cured by a test. Oh, wait...

                              --
                              My rights don't end where your fear begins.

                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @12:49AM (3 children)

                                by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @12:49AM (#983883)

                                the fuck is wrong with you???

                                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 17 2020, @03:36AM (2 children)

                                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday April 17 2020, @03:36AM (#983944) Homepage Journal

                                  According to all the progtards on their Listen and Believe campaign about testing? That I can tell the difference between a test and a cure.

                                  --
                                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.

                                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @05:15AM (1 child)

                                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @05:15AM (#983998)

                                    Ah, you are mixing politics with science. Think I found your problem, but there is no cure for someone like you. One day you'll figure out that the cure was inside you all along!!!

                                    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 17 2020, @12:56PM

                                      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday April 17 2020, @12:56PM (#984091) Homepage Journal

                                      Nope. I'm pointing out that progtards are harping on testing as if it were a cure. The movers and shakers are doing it because they think it will hurt Trump. The rank and file are doing it because they're fucking idiot sheep. The folks with TDS are doing it because they'll jump on anything anti-Trump; hell, they'd call for puppy genocide if he said he liked dogs.

                                      Testing don't solve shit unless it can be done to everyone on demand with a minimum of twice a day being necessary to make a difference. What it does do and is useful for is it lets medical folks gather data after the fact.

                                      --
                                      My rights don't end where your fear begins.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:32PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:32PM (#983308)

                    Works for Trump.

                • (Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:37PM (1 child)

                  by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:37PM (#983280) Journal

                  So what you are saying is that WHO is a mere conduit for Chinese propaganda and not an agency with any ability to do research or ask hard questions. Tell you what, I'll be China's stenographer for a mere $1 million per year. We can use the other $500-800 million to do useful things. Fair?

                  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:38PM

                    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:38PM (#983310) Homepage

                    Any organization composed of unelected Jewish managers, like the UN or the WHO, will gladly take money to espouse any talking point. But number one rule of the Jew organizations is to have a Black fall-guy so you're not racist, or something, if things go horribly wrong. That's why Obama was elected, after all.

          • (Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:42AM (3 children)

            by driverless (4770) on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:42AM (#983441)

            You quoting Fox News. Why not quote something more reliable, like Russia Today, or PressTV?

            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:31PM

              by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:31PM (#983699) Journal

              It links to the tweet, via fox. It was how I found a clickable link fast but didn't notice all the redirects when I pasted it in to my reply. Anyway, there's no editorialising around the actual tweet -- it's just the tweet. For all you who won't look at a WHO tweet via a Fox link, here's the direct route to the _exact_same_ place:

              https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 [twitter.com]

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:36PM (1 child)

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:36PM (#983701) Journal

              Who is more reliable than Fox News?

              I'll wait.

              I don't give any of those any time anymore. It's all lies and narrative and useless fear/anger/hate-porn.

              Occasionally The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald's project, publishes interesting investigations. Wikileaks publishes raw data the rich and powerful don't want anyone to see. Stratfor is solid and worth paying for. Read the raw data or stay as close to it as you can.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @05:17AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @05:17AM (#983999)

                Actually just about everyone. None of the networks are reliable for truth, but Fox is at the bottom of the barrel.

                Weird that anyone would bother defending Fox, especially an ex-democrat.

                So can we just unmask all the Scooby Doo villains around here???

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:24PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:24PM (#983232)

          Yes, the W.H.O should have deployed their shock troops to force the authoritarian nation of China to tell the truth.

          No, they should have validated Chinese claims before repeating them and pressured China with the full support of the international community. China would let international observers in or WHO call a pandemic meaning all air traffic to and from China from WHO members would be grounded at Chinese expense.

          Meanwhile, the W.H.O was warning us about this virus while Trump was still calling it a hoax.

          They did no such thing. Lay-people with less information were calling the pandemic in mid-January while the WHO were busy denying human to human transmission. The WHO have no plausible deniability [change.org] and neither do the UN. [brookings.edu]

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:37AM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:37AM (#983400) Journal

            Lay-people with less information were calling the pandemic in mid-January

            Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

            At that point, those lay people were wrong to call the pandemic, particularly with that lack of information. Let us keep in mind that there are lay people who will call any disease that shows up in the news as the next pandemic.

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:40PM (1 child)

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:40PM (#983705) Journal

              All you need to know these days is that if some sickness starts in China, it's gonna be a pandemic. So it's a pretty safe bet to call it that. One guy on BitChute I check on sometimes started reporting on it early, and when he said it jumped to Northern Italy in January I stocked up. Glad I did, now.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @03:40AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @03:40AM (#983947) Journal
                Like SARS [wikipedia.org] in 2002? That is an example of a sickness that started in China and didn't become a pandemic.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:31PM (9 children)

          by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:31PM (#983236) Journal

          WHO warnings were crap. They declared a "global health emergency" [statnews.com] on Jan. 30 only after the CDC reported a case of human-to-human transmission [statnews.com], and even then they were handing out bad advice:

          In making the announcement, WHO leaders urged countries not to restrict travel or trade to China, even as some have shut down borders and limited visas.

          W.H.O. Declares Global Emergency as Wuhan Coronavirus Spreads [archive.org]

          The World Health Organization declared on Thursday that the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak was a global health emergency, acknowledging that the disease now represents a risk beyond China, where it emerged last month.

          The decision reversed the organization’s decision just a week ago to hold off such a declaration.

          Since then, W.H.O. officials said, thousands of new cases in China and clear human-to-human transmission in several other countries — now including the United States — warranted a reconsideration of that decision by the agency’s expert committee.

          Here's a postponement notice [twitter.com].

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:36PM (3 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:36PM (#983279) Journal

            They declared a "global health emergency" [statnews.com] on Jan. 30 only after the CDC reported a case of human-to-human transmission

            Were they supposed to declare an emergency before they had any evidence of human to human transmission?

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:56PM

              by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:56PM (#983296) Journal

              Last week, the committee had recommended that a PHEIC not be declared yet because of limited spread of the virus outside of China. Tedros reconvened the committee this week because some other countries, including Japan, Germany, Vietnam, and, as of Thursday, the United States, had reported limited human-to-human transmission of the virus — a warning sign that the virus could start circulating more broadly outside China.

              Members of the emergency committee had previously been divided over whether to recommend Tedros declare a PHEIC. Those opposed seemed to want to see if China’s efforts to control the outbreak could prevent broader worldwide transmission. Some 99% of the global cases have been in China, and the large majority of infections in other countries have been in people who picked up the virus while in China and then traveled to the other nations.

              Didier Houssin, who leads the committee, said members on Thursday “almost unanimously” backed the PHEIC because of the rise in cases in China, the number of countries outside of China — now 18 — with cases, and what he called “questionable measures” taken by countries in their travel policies toward China.

              They had the evidence they needed. But it looks like the CDC used its own announcement that morning (Jan. 30) to prod them into finally making *a* right decision.

              Net connection is getting wrecked, it will take a long time for me to reply anywhere.

              --
              [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:06AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:06AM (#983325)

              They knew. Even Ted Lieu [twitter.com] scores. WHO screwing up isn't a partisan issue, nor something we can ignore.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:57PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:57PM (#983713)

              what kind of stupid fucking slave sucks WHO ass?

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:48AM (4 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:48AM (#983407) Journal

            WHO warnings were crap.

            How come countries that listened to/followed on them, as crap and untimely as they may have been, have much better results than US?
            Australia - mortality rate: 0.97% [worldometers.info] - US mortality rate: 4.42% [worldometers.info]

            (Australia started serious countermeasures - social distancing and what not - in early March [wikipedia.org])

            (Point: blaming the WHO exclusively for your own administration failure is stupid)

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by driverless on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:51AM

              by driverless (4770) on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:51AM (#983445)

              It's even worse than that. At the same time as the US, Vietnam were informed by WHO and the US CDC of the upcoming issues due to Covid19. Same time, same organisations, same advice as the US got. Vietnam, which has a pretty dodgy medical system, responded appropriately and has a pretty low death toll/infection rate (although I don't believe the official figures). The US, which got the same information at the same time from the same organisations and has a way better medical system than Vietnam, has the worst death toll in the world.

              Incidentally, this is a great data point for causing severe cognitive dissonance in Trump fans. Strongest response I've had for pointing this out was actual hysterics, the person literally started screaming at me. I didn't do it deliberately, just pointed out this example and saw someone go completely to pieces over the conflict between what they wanted to believe and hard reality.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:03AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:03AM (#983496)

              Many reasons:

              #1: Urban density. Canberra is Australia's most densely compacted city (yes - more than Sydney). It has a density of about 500 people per kilometer. New York City has a population density of 10,700 people per kilometer.

              #2: Fat. America is fat, really fat. Obesity + virus = dead. I also suspect we are not equivalent in other things such as immune compromised folks, etc. This means same cause = different effects.

              #3: Globalism. New York City is a world epicenter for trade, migration, and so on. That means more spreaders and worse overall impact. Australia, simply, is not.

              #4: Super spreaders. New York has large numbers of orthodox Jews who believe that if humanity suffers, it's gods will. They're similar to the Christian sect in Korea with similar views that also worked as super spreaders. They don't vaccinate or engage in other efforts to prevent viruses or disease. Same reason New York City tends to be an epicenter for measles outbreaks, etc. Australia, to my knowledge, lacks a similar group of super spreaders.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:55AM (1 child)

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:55AM (#983505) Journal

                They're similar to the Christian sect in Korea with similar views that also worked as super spreaders.

                Ok, let's speak of South Korea then. It had the same data from WHO and super-spreaders and started much earlier on the infection curve, and yet it managed to pull a 2.16% mortality rate [worldometers.info].
                USofA, having the benefit of the insight of what happened elsewhere... fucked up precious time to hit 4.42%. And for this one should lay the blame exclusively on the WHO?
                Like, the Trump administration is squeaky clean and, no sirree, Trump is not deflecting blame, he's just telling how it is. Is that what you're trying to say?

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:33PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:33PM (#983628)

                  Those mortality rates are incomparable, because each country has their own testing policy.
                  More interesting would be hospitalizations and outcomes.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:32PM (4 children)

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:32PM (#983237)

          The WHO didn't do anything except regurgitate Chinese propaganda. Why exactly do they need billions in funding to do this, and why should anyone else be footing the bill for an organization that does nothing but praise the Chinese Communist party?

          Comparing this to Trump's response is pure whataboutism. The WHO was derelict in its duty to the rest of the world in handling this contagion, and far more countries were harmed than Trump's America.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mr_bad_influence on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:37AM (3 children)

            by mr_bad_influence (3854) on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:37AM (#983401)

            I respectfully disagree. I think it's missing the point. The WHO isn't perfect. What international organization is? Can they do better? Sure. Can WE do better? I know we can. The point is that this organization exists and it's all we've got. Imagine where we (earth) would be if they weren't there. It's the best we've got and they foster relations and dialogue (good or bad, political or not) between nations. We have to start somewhere.

            So, regardless of the issues with the WHO, it's evident the USA had the relevant information and it was OUR responsibility to act on it for the health of all Americans. The WHO is not responsible for that.

            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:38PM (1 child)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:38PM (#983703) Journal

              The countries ignoring WHO's advice, like S. Korea and Taiwan, have done much better. So where would be? Probably in a place where scientists analyzed the available information and were not unduly influenced by Chinese lies given amplified credibility via a presumptively scientific body. We don't know if it would have worked out better, but one thing is certain, the WHO was a harmful player in all this and needs to go.

              • (Score: 2) by quietus on Thursday April 16 2020, @07:38PM

                by quietus (6328) on Thursday April 16 2020, @07:38PM (#983754) Journal

                Both countries with a keen eye on the true state of China, as seen on the ground, not as reported in the media, or to official instances.

                Which puts forward a question: how come the US -- or most other Western states -- intelligence agencies (and embassies) not reporting the true nature of this threat, as witnessed on the ground, to their respective governments?

                As to Western media: why did they make it seem -- and still make it seem -- like Wuhan province was the only place with severe lockdown restrictions, while you had/have similar lockdown measures in the rest of China? Was/is it too expensive to send over some additional journalists to other cities in China, and check the situation out there?

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:59PM

              by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:59PM (#983806) Homepage

              Yes, being blatantly corrupt is a far cry from perfection.

              Whether or not Trump or the USA handled the situation well does not excuse the WHO from sucking the CCPs fat member. I don't know why you and the other CCP apologists keep bringing it up. This entire thread is strictly about the WHO. If you need to bring Trump into the picture, then you clearly have no substantial argument in defense of the WHO and should just shut up.

              --
              Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:03PM (#983298)

          No need for shock troops, but a little less cockgobbling would be nice.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by RamiK on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:27PM (6 children)

        by RamiK (1813) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:27PM (#983234)

        You know, there's an obvious flaw in Trump's little scapegoating circus of the WHO and China: No other nation is backing him up and cutting funding to the WHO.

        Let me clue you in on what's happening by making a prediction: When the dust settles the WHO will get their funding back and will switch malaria medication suppliers to Trump's company.

        --
        compiling...

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:42PM (2 children)

          by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:42PM (#983246) Journal

          WHO should get their funding back (assuming Trump actually goes through with this) after Tedros is ditched. Directors-General serve 5 year terms, assuming no resignation or death in office (Lee Jong-wook).

          Or you can just let a President Biden re-open the money spigot. Either way, they will get their precious funding back soon.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:09PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:09PM (#983300)

            WHO will get their money back, but on terms that ensure that timely & accurate info is being conveyed.

            • (Score: 2) by number11 on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:58AM

              by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:58AM (#983412)

              WHO will get their money back, but on terms that ensure that timely & accurate info is being conveyed.

              Can the US government ensure that the info it conveys is timely & accurate (even by tweet)? Gonna need to rewrite history for that.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Bot on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:55PM (1 child)

          by Bot (3902) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:55PM (#983252) Journal

          > No other nation is backing him up and cutting funding to the WHO.

          When the USA wanted others to boycott chinese routers, nations under USA influence didn't follow suit either. There is only one other nation who can say fuck you to China and is Russia, the others will carefully consider. The Chinese are pretty vengeful, and if they were better than you Americans the system would have not picked them as the new chosen superpower. China is next and some Africans in 150 years. By then Europe will lay in ruins. The game of big money (with the two legs capitalism and socialism) has been going on for a while.

          --
          Account abandoned.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:11PM (#983301)

            You're a little behind the times. The US is and has been saying fuck you for a while. It seems to be working. Meanwhile, in the EU it's appeasement as usual.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:29PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:29PM (#983271) Journal

          ...and will switch malaria medication suppliers to Trump's company.

          Only to treat malaria, though!

          Anti-malarial treatment hailed by Trump has no benefit for coronavirus patients, French researchers find [scmp.com]

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @06:38AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @06:38AM (#983481)

        Most of that is bullshit and/or spin. The rest of the world had plenty of time to react to the virus. A lot more time than China did. Evidence: There are countries which have it under control based on publicly available information. They could lose control of course but they are definitely doing better than the USA and a lot of Europe. Sweden has access to this supposedly hidden/covered up info and they still think it's not that dangerous. What more do you want the WHO or China to do? You want China to take over the world and enforce lockdowns?

        Dec 16-30: China starts noticing the new disease
        Dec 30: China stops Li Wenliang etc from telling the public about the disease. Note this was at a very early stage where nobody knew how dangerous the disease really was - not enough statistics and info. And even today many are still saying it's not that dangerous (look at Sweden and Brazil). Countries don't lockdown entire cities due to seasonal flu after all.
        Dec 31: China informs the WHO of the pneumonia cases (no cover up when the info is via "proper" channels).
        Jan 11: China reports their first death.
        Jan 12: China submits the covid-19 genome to the WHO which is then shared globally. Scientists around the world start working on it.
        Jan 23: China locks down Wuhan, starts building hospitals. None of you noticed that happening? Didn't see China's death counts going up either did you?
        Jan 30: WHO: declares it a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.
        Jan 30: Trump: We have it very well under control
        Feb 2: Trump: We pretty much shut it down
        Feb 10: Trump: Lot of people think it goes away in April. We're in great shape.
        Feb 19: Trump: I think the numbers are going to get progressively better...
        Feb 23: Trump: We have it very much under control
        Feb 26: Trump: Because of all we've done the risk to the American people remains very low
        Feb 28: Trump: This is their new hoax.
        Mar 11: WHO: declares it a pandemic.
        Mar 17: Trump: I've always known this is a real... this is a pandemic.

        So who has been doing most of the lying and cover ups?

        Of course the WHO doesn't call it a pandemic in Jan 2020. Because it was not a pandemic back then. It's only a pandemic because the whole world didn't manage to control the disease. It would be lying to say the whole world is on fire when it wasn't on fire yet. So the WHO called it a "Public Health Emergency of International Concern.".

        As for the Chinese officials calling it a pandemic in secret, I find that story rather suspect and possible US propaganda. Why? Because 1) a pandemic is a disease that's gone global, at that point of time it hadn't gone global enough to be called a pandemic. 2) The Chinese authorities would likely have been using Mandarin terms not English. Go figure, maybe even look up the difference between epidemic and pandemic, and ask why the media would use the "pandemic" term now etc. Yeah and let's put most of the blame on China because they took 6 days longer than they could have when they're the first country to deal with the new disease. How about the rest of world taking weeks or months longer?

        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:03PM

          by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:03PM (#983766) Homepage Journal

          And while we're at it, could we please stop using the word "epicentre" to describe place(s) that are particularly infested with the coronavirus? They're not epicentres. Epicentres are places that are above the centre. Being on the surface, they are centres, plain and simple.

          With an earthquake, the centre is underground, so using epicentre for the place above it in the surface is OK.

          -- hendrik

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:58PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:58PM (#983789)

          this is incorrect. I will not bother going through your list as the genome was sequenced a week earlier and China refused to share that information. In fact the first sequence information was available at the end of December but China would not share the sequence with the international scientific community. They also would not allow independent scientist access to the region or specific information.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by corey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:06PM (3 children)

      by corey (2202) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:06PM (#983299)

      Thing is by pulling funding then the US has no further influence on the WHO. And they'll be even more influenced by, and pander to, China. And as a whole bunch of world leaders right now are saying, now is not the time for this type of action. Beat the virus, then sort out the WHO funding and politics later.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:14PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:14PM (#983302)

        In effect, what you're saying is that the US needs to keep flushing huge sums of money down the shitter to organizations that aren't really delivering any value whatsoever.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:30AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:30AM (#983393) Journal

          In effect, what you're saying is that the US needs to keep flushing huge sums of money down the shitter to organizations that aren't really delivering any value whatsoever.

          And this is something new and surprising [wikipedia.org]?

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:45PM

          by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:45PM (#983576) Journal

          What do you propose to replace it with? Because such an agency is sorely needed in the world.

          Yeah. Thought so.

          --
          This sig for rent.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:31AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:31AM (#983356) Journal

      An easier question: "WHO do you not work for?"

      Based on the results [worldometers.info], Trump administration haven't worked for the American people.
      And then, it refuses to take any responsibility for the failure [politico.com].

      If cutting the funding to the WHO is justified, what commensurate measure one should apply for the Trump administration?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:27PM (65 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:27PM (#983189) Journal

    Need more scapegoats... Did the China scandal fizzle?

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:33PM (63 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:33PM (#983196) Journal

      Patient Zero for both the Spanish Flu and Swine Flu (the deadliest pandemics of their centuries), were Americans.

      Are we in for another surprise? [unz.com] And so much secrecy! You'd think the CDC is based in China!

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:08PM (26 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:08PM (#983218) Homepage

        Swine Flu was a fucking nothingburger. And Bill Gates is a fucking Jew. The Wikipedia says that he's not a Jew, but he's pure Crypto: Those beady eyes, that hooknosed goblin look, that predatory shark-like grin you'd see on a hungry pitbull. His penchant for wearing Wal-Mart pullover sweaters despite being a gazillionaire. His father stood with Soros and he himself stood with Epstein after Epstein was released.

        Bill Gates' vaccines have crippled and killed a lot of people in developing nations, and now he wants America to have that experience wholesale.

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:18PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:18PM (#983226) Journal

          Swine flu? Don't you mean the American Virus?

          Origin of H1N1 [cdc.gov]

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:33PM (6 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:33PM (#983238)

          Our most likely future:

          1) Everyone will need to take a mandatory vaccine. Even though the coronavirus has long been known to cause the common cold and they've never been able to vaccinate for that, this one is somehow different. It certainly is different in that it's a chimera built under Dr Fauci's guidance, but the vaccine will have nothing to do with the virus. It will, like many of Bill Gates earlier attempts at vaccines, include for many a sterilization agent. For others it will likely lead to death or severe illness. But with full indemnity built into the process for those developing and administering the vaccine, there will be no repercussions.

          2) Everyone will need to be chipped and tracked as a form of "contact tracing", which is the term du jour that Dr. Fauci has been throwing around so that everyone can become familiar with it and won't be completely frightened by the concept. What it means is that you'll be tracked everywhere, at all times, involuntarily, but only for your safety and protection. Anyone who is deemed to have come into contact with the virus will be quarantined, against their will, for 14 days.

          3) Many of those who Jared Kushner's tracking system identify as being infected with the virus will never return from quarantine. But this will only be because they succumbed to the virus and their bodies had to be incinerated, not because they were shot and dumped in a hole in the ground for being political dissidents.

          4) Anyone who thought we couldn't be turned into Nazis should at least have the hair on the back of their necks standing up at the remote prospect of this even being possible, because as of now nothing we're being told makes sense. Nothing adds up. But there's nothing to see here so please continue attacking the views of anyone who dares to challenge the prevailing dogmatic orthodoxy regarding this vaccine of totally natural origins and the benevolent case of characters putting into place the infrastructure of Fascism necessary to really clean house.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:43PM (2 children)

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @09:43PM (#983247) Homepage

            Plot Twist: The Jews were the Nazis all-along!

            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Bot on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:07PM (1 child)

              by Bot (3902) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:07PM (#983260) Journal

              Trivia: who is the actual, biological, father of the nation of Israel? A____f H____r.

              --
              Account abandoned.

              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:23PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:23PM (#983304)

                Pretty much so, if Hitler hadn't persecuted the normal Jew, Israel would remain only as an experiment for the religious freaks. It still pretty much is, but even the non-religious are having it propped up in case they need it as their bug-out space.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:52PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @01:52PM (#983581)

            1) The common cold is a rhinovirus. This is coronavirus. The common cold does not kill one in a thousand who presents with symptoms. And do put your tinfoil hat back on. So much for your objection.

            2) Proof? Yeah, thought not. Contact tracing has been done for decades in this country in relation to public health and disease, in case you hadn't noticed.

            3) OK. Put your tinfoil hat back on.

            4) Yes. Fascism is entirely possible in this country at this point. But disease tracking is useful and necessary for certain diseases, and has already been implemented. Here's what CDC already tracks [medlineplus.gov]. And contact tracing has already been done, and is usually implemented at a county level. Which has always been inefficient and ineffective, but it's what has been done.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:34PM (1 child)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:34PM (#983658) Homepage Journal

              Erm... the common cold is a bunch of different viruses all lumped together under a very unhelpful name. Yes, including some types of corona viruses.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.

              • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:10PM

                by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:10PM (#983769) Homepage Journal

                I seem to recall hearing that there are about a hundred viruses, any one of which could cause a common cold.
                So vaccinating against the cold wold require about a hundred vaccinations.

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:00PM (4 children)

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:00PM (#983255)

          Are you off your meds again?

          • (Score: 2, Touché) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:31PM (2 children)

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:31PM (#983272) Homepage

            Ahh, I see that Bolshevik psychiatry is making a comeback beyond "take your meds, schizo." It's too late. The Goyim know and the Goyim knowing is now mainstream.

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:51PM (1 child)

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:51PM (#983294)

              Good lord. Bolshevik psychiatry.

              So, yes then.

              • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:31AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:31AM (#983432)

                I think you made a pretty big assumption that he was ever ON proper meds.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:43PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @11:43PM (#983313)

            EF is suffering from Swinehund Flu.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Bot on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:05PM (11 children)

          by Bot (3902) on Wednesday April 15 2020, @10:05PM (#983258) Journal

          Jew is a state of mind, after all, it's a race because jews are more comfortable with that subdivision. In this regard, Gates's pedigree as a jew squared is called windows, and even if he develops actual viruses and kills people with vaccines, he has already peaked his damage to humanity with the humble PC. I think Soros keeps an autograph of Gates in his pocket and looks at it every evening for inspiration.

          --
          Account abandoned.

          • (Score: 5, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:11AM (10 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:11AM (#983328) Journal

            Good thing Jesus wasn't a Jew then!

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...

            • (Score: 2, Troll) by Bot on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:28PM (9 children)

              by Bot (3902) on Thursday April 16 2020, @12:28PM (#983539) Journal

              How can the Messiah be among those who don't recognize Him as such? That would take a fair amount of lack of belief in yourself and hypocrisy.

              Jews are by definition those who don't believe him. Your rebuttal stems from having adopted the "jews were first then came christians" racist narrative. BOOOO.

              Logically, either Christ is an impostor, or is the Messiah. If he is the Messiah, then Abraham was a Christian, Moses was a Christian, John the baptist was quite the Christian well before 30AD, and jews were born as a schismatic sect right when king Herod became a bit jealous of a newborn. If he is an impostor, then the followers of the true God might be the dwindling number of Hebrews that are not sold on zionism (which essentially gave up waiting for any messiah).

              --
              Account abandoned.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:29PM (8 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:29PM (#983778) Journal

                Logically, either Christ is an impostor, or is the Messiah.

                Because there's no way for him to be both, amirite?

                • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday April 17 2020, @03:58AM (7 children)

                  by Bot (3902) on Friday April 17 2020, @03:58AM (#983952) Journal

                  >Because there's no way for him to be both, amirite?

                  there is maybe a way, but not in the context you are replying to.

                  X says I am Y is either true or false, false DEFINES being impostor.

                  --
                  Account abandoned.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @04:02AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @04:02AM (#983954) Journal

                    X is not a single entity.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @04:03AM (5 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @04:03AM (#983956) Journal
                    Sigh. Mangled last post. Trying again.

                    X says I am Y is either true or false, false DEFINES being impostor.

                    X is not a single entity.

                    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday April 17 2020, @08:34PM (4 children)

                      by Bot (3902) on Friday April 17 2020, @08:34PM (#984303) Journal

                      and that would be relevant, how?

                      --
                      Account abandoned.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 18 2020, @11:44AM (3 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 18 2020, @11:44AM (#984538) Journal
                        In that X doesn't have a single truth value.

                        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday April 18 2020, @07:50PM (2 children)

                          by Bot (3902) on Saturday April 18 2020, @07:50PM (#984652) Journal

                          are you referring to the Trinity? Matt 3 17 says the Son, which BTW is the only entity you can apply logic to.

                          --
                          Account abandoned.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 18 2020, @09:15PM (1 child)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 18 2020, @09:15PM (#984683) Journal
                            There's also billions of people with opinions on the matter. They're part of X.

                            • (Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday April 19 2020, @12:07AM

                              by Bot (3902) on Sunday April 19 2020, @12:07AM (#984714) Journal

                              Your approach to binary logic is sure wasteful. Prove that any opinion on the matter, not metadata like dunno, not sure, provides a different value than T o F to the assertion, then you will have something.

                              --
                              Account abandoned.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by HiThere on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:10AM (14 children)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:10AM (#983377) Journal

        I doubt that "patient zero" of the US was singular. I suspect that several "patient zero"s crossed from China to the US during December,2019 before the disease was identified. Most of them probably had very mild cases, but even one with a serious, as in died in the hospital of pneumonia, case wouldn't have been recognized as anything special.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:30AM (10 children)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:30AM (#983394) Journal

          There is too much secrecy. Nobody can truthfully say it came from China. Everything over the last three years is awash in hearsay. We have achieved true postmodernism. I expected better

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:24AM (9 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:24AM (#983457) Journal

            Nobody can truthfully say it came from China.

            Why not? Note that the underlying cause of the secrecy in question is China and that they have huge incentive to cast blame elsewhere given the misdeeds they committed in the early days of the infection.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:38AM (8 children)

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:38AM (#983460) Journal

              There is just as much secrecy and just as much motivation to pass blame in the US. We hear it every time he opens his mouth. You're just reciting the yellow tabloids and Trump tweets

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @11:11AM (7 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @11:11AM (#983522) Journal

                There is just as much secrecy and just as much motivation to pass blame in the US.

                Oh really? Then where is it?

                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:13PM (6 children)

                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:13PM (#983591) Journal

                  Then where is it?

                  With the CDC. You didn't read the link. The US government is simply projecting.

                  --
                  La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:57PM (5 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:57PM (#983676) Journal
                    What secrecy with the CDC? The best you have is that there were secret US administration meetings to discuss COVID-19. That's it. The rest is garbage. This conspiracy theory isn't even half-baked.

                    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:00PM (4 children)

                      by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @05:00PM (#983680) Journal

                      Their "conspiracy theories" will kick your conspiracy theories' ass!

                      --
                      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:28PM (3 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:28PM (#983777) Journal
                        Unfortunately, the only conspiracy theory here is your conspiracy theory. And it's doing a fine job of kicking its own ass.

                        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:27PM (2 children)

                          by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:27PM (#983793) Journal

                          frayed knot. You are parroting standard yellow journalism. Your conspiracy theories are based purely on the appeal to authority.

                          --
                          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @03:35AM (1 child)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @03:35AM (#983942) Journal

                            You are parroting standard yellow journalism.

                            Again, what am I parroting? Be specific. Since I'm asking in multiple places, you can just reply once to this post [soylentnews.org].

                            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @04:08AM

                              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @04:08AM (#983960) Journal

                              Bla bla bla... You're just playing stupid again

                              --
                              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @06:14AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @06:14AM (#983476)

          A week before Xmas, my brother-in-law in Oklahoma experienced a flu-like illness which landed him in the hospital and darn near shut down his lungs for good. The doctors were unable to associate the symptoms to any known illness, though they exactly match Covid-19. He survived (without intubation) after three weeks of care. He had been working as a camp counselor in another another state for a site that hosts retreats for international students.

          I live near Seattle - a few miles from the hospital where the first US death happened (Feb 28th), and I personally know about a dozen people who experienced Covid-19-like symptoms during the months of January and February.

          My suspicion is that the virus had been spreading through the USA nearly concurrently with the outbreak in Asia, and only came to light when it was contracted by victims with "underlying conditions" leading to hospitalization and death. Since many healthy folk experience only mild symptoms, the identification of a "patient zero" may prove impossible.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:50PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @08:50PM (#983784) Journal

            My suspicion is that the virus had been spreading through the USA nearly concurrently with the outbreak in Asia, and only came to light when it was contracted by victims with "underlying conditions" leading to hospitalization and death. Since many healthy folk experience only mild symptoms, the identification of a "patient zero" may prove impossible.

            Sorry, I don't buy that. If you look at March, the number of reported cases grew from 42 reported cases to 185k. If it had been kicking around in December, there would be hundreds of thousands of cases by March, maybe even millions of cases.

            A week before Xmas, my brother-in-law in Oklahoma experienced a flu-like illness which landed him in the hospital and darn near shut down his lungs for good. The doctors were unable to associate the symptoms to any known illness, though they exactly match Covid-19. He survived (without intubation) after three weeks of care. He had been working as a camp counselor in another another state for a site that hosts retreats for international students.

            So right there, we have symptoms matching the known illness, influenza by definition since the symptoms are flu-like. My workplace in northwest Wyoming also suffered from influenza cases during that time, mostly brought in from nearby communities in December. I think it was the first week or two of January before we stopped implementing quarantine procedures.

            Now, it is possible that your brother-in-law was suffering from some coronavirus (and a weakened immune system). The Wuhan strain is not the only strain of it in the world. But I'd look to the fires that are already burning rather than a new disease that somehow didn't infect enough people to be noticed.

          • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday April 17 2020, @10:59AM

            by Bot (3902) on Friday April 17 2020, @10:59AM (#984066) Journal

            if two anecdotes are better than one anecdote, a family friend here in Italy was hospitalized for one month because of a flu this december. 50 year old no previous history of grave flu. Probably vaccinated too.

            --
            Account abandoned.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:22AM (20 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:22AM (#983456) Journal
        Hmmm, that link is a huge exercise in the non sequitur fallacy. For example:

        [...]This is truly astonishing, since

        • Patient Zero for both the Spanish Flu and Swine Flu (the deadliest[2] pandemics of their centuries), were Americans.
        • Our public health system is so ineffectual that we now host endemic diseases like typhus, usually seen only in wartime.
        • Our public health system is so ineffectual that our healthy life expectancy at birth is lower than China’s.
        • The CDC is remarkably corrupt.
        • The CDC has often been slow to detect pandemic outbreaks and incurious about tracing them.
        • The CDC classifies discussions of Covid-19 Top Secret.
        • The CDC is led by a non-scientist military officer.
        • The CDC did nothing when the WHO issued its warning January 3.
        • The CDC blocked Covid-19 testing for months after thousands started dying.

        Even if all of that were true, every last bullet point is completely irrelevant to the subject of whether "patient zero" comes from outside of China or not. And the speculation is ludicrous:

        Chinese research shows that the virus was introduced into their country from elsewhere, Japanese and Taiwanese studies point to the US as its likely source, and Russian and Czech authorities share their suspicions.[9] Kristian Andersen, a Scripps Institute evolutionary biologist, said it is ‘entirely plausible’ that infected persons brought the virus into the seafood market from somewhere outside and dated their ‘most recent common ancestor’ as early as 1 October 2019, when US athletes participated in the 2019 Military World games in Wuhan. Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease expert at Georgetown University, said the first infection has been confirmed as occurring in November 2019, (not in Wuhan), suggesting the virus originated elsewhere. “One group put the origin of the outbreak as early as 18 September 2019. China must have realized the epidemic did not originate in that Wuhan Huanan seafood market.” Lucey also noted that MERS was originally believed to have come from a patient in Saudi Arabia in June of 2012 but later, more thorough studies traced it to an earlier hospital outbreak of unexplained pneumonia in Jordan in April of that year and Western media’s origin stories about SARS, MERS, and ZIKA have all later proven wrong.

        So now, irrelevant details are woven into yet another conspiracy plot which includes every novel disease the author read about in the papers, taking researchers out of context (like Lucey) and treating "Chinese research" as if it were real.

        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:42AM (19 children)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:42AM (#983461) Journal

          Of course your tabloid conspiracy theories are fact, right?

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @11:11AM (18 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @11:11AM (#983521) Journal
            It's not my tabloid conspiracy theory here.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:08PM (17 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:08PM (#983588)

              Never said you owned a tabloid. You're just spewing their war mongering garbage. You're just another lemming.

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:11PM

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:11PM (#983589) Journal

                hit the wrong button, that was me.

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:54PM (15 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 16 2020, @04:54PM (#983674) Journal
                I never said I did either. Nor do I own the tabloid, you've buying your garbage from.

                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:32PM (14 children)

                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday April 16 2020, @09:32PM (#983795) Journal

                  That made no sense. You are still passing tabloid conspiracy theories that are false. I'll assume you're just following orders, as usual.

                  --
                  La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @03:33AM (13 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @03:33AM (#983939) Journal

                    You are still passing tabloid conspiracy theories that are false.

                    Like what? Be specific.

                    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @04:06AM (12 children)

                      by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @04:06AM (#983959) Journal

                      Origin of the virus, for one

                      --
                      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @09:25AM (11 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @09:25AM (#984058) Journal

                        Origin of the virus, for one

                        Being specific, has there been any evidence for the virus in human hosts - much less US human hosts - before Wuhan? For example, the tabloid claim was

                        Chinese research shows that the virus was introduced into their country from elsewhere, Japanese and Taiwanese studies point to the US as its likely source, and Russian and Czech authorities share their suspicions.

                        And yet, no such coronavirus was seen in the US until after it was established in Wuhan and most early cases are associated with China. Nor did the tabloid point to any evidence in support of this claim (for example, a key claim that the US might have been the source, with no indication of how, comes from a second tabloid [tass.com] and an anonymous "diplomatic source" who spouts vague accusations "However, for a long time we have been watching with concerns the US military and biological activity carried out in direct proximity with our borders." which is completely bullshit - Russia can easily stop any such activity were it to be a genuine concern and what is "biological activity"?).

                        The facts are that there's no known cases outside of Wuhan until somewhere around the beginning of January when Taiwan started monitoring flights out of China. That COVID-19 is sufficiently infectious that if it did start somewhere else, say like the US, there would be massive numbers of cases there in early 2020, like the beginning of March. No such concentration of cases has ever been found. Further, such cases would have been detected by countries that were scanning passengers in early 2020.

                        If it's supposed to be the release of some biological agent, why are we supposed to suspect the US in a complete absence of evidence? Both China and Russia for obvious other candidates do bioweapons research too. And no reasons, much less evidence for those reasons, for why this would occur deliberately have been presented. Because presumably an accidental release of a US bioweapon in China is a ludicrous scenario, right?

                        Sorry, this is really stupid, even for you.

                        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @02:51PM (10 children)

                          by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @02:51PM (#984127) Journal

                          The facts are...

                          that you are repeating propaganda, no more valid, and probably less so, that any of your other conspiracy theories.

                          --
                          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @05:18PM (2 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @05:18PM (#984193) Journal

                            that you are repeating propaganda,

                            "But but but that's propaganda". Sorry, evidence or shut the fuck up. I'm tired of your idiotic bleating.


                            So I suppose we're left with deliberate infection by a bioweapon which somehow magically defaults to the US - which like everyone else isn't known for deploying bioweapons on someone else's soil. That's deep in make-up-shit territory - you know, propaganda? Nobody has evidence for that.

                            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @05:29PM (1 child)

                              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @05:29PM (#984201) Journal

                              Sorry, evidence or shut the fuck up.

                              Exactly what I have been telling you, but you simply appeal to authority, repeating their bullshit.

                              Evidence has no effect on you. You just wave your hands and say "propaganda". More projection, I guess.

                              Really, you can save your energy...

                              I'm tired of your idiotic bleating.

                              Do tell! Mr. bankers boy

                              --
                              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                              • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @05:47PM

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @05:47PM (#984210) Journal
                                Evidence or shut the fuck up.

                                Exactly what I have been telling you

                                No, you haven't. For a glaring example, you didn't tell me that in the above post.

                                You just wave your hands and say "propaganda".

                                Projection. You are only one doing that.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @05:19PM (6 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @05:19PM (#984194) Journal

                            that you are repeating propaganda,

                            "But but but that's propaganda". Sorry, evidence or shut the fuck up. I'm tired of your idiotic bleating.

                            My "propaganda" has never been contested by you. Again, there's been massive testing throughout the world, for the first few weeks, all the cases were coming out of China. Then they started coming out of countries that had subsequently established infections, Iran, Italy, and South Korea. Then it became endemic in most of the rest. If the source had naturally come from the US, there would be massive infections coming out of the US. It could not be hidden.

                            So I suppose we're left with deliberate infection by a bioweapon which somehow magically defaults to the US - which like everyone else isn't known for deploying bioweapons on someone else's soil. That's deep in make-up-shit territory - you know, propaganda? Nobody has evidence for that.

                            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @05:38PM (5 children)

                              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @05:38PM (#984206) Journal

                              My "propaganda" has never been contested by you.

                              Of course that's not true. It's just not worth the effort after the first time. You just roboticly repeat banker bullshit regardless of the truth. You simply don't hear. Why would I waste time arguing with a recorded message that we all know to be false?

                              I'm tired of your idiotic bleating.

                              Cool. You know the routine then...

                              --
                              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                              • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @05:51PM (4 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @05:51PM (#984213) Journal

                                It's just not worth the effort after the first time.

                                There was no first time. Evidence or shut the fuck up.

                                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @06:12PM (3 children)

                                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @06:12PM (#984224) Journal

                                  Been there done that. More than once is redundant.

                                  Toodles...

                                  --
                                  La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @06:32PM (2 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @06:32PM (#984239) Journal

                                    Been there done that.

                                    No you haven't. You're doing the same weaselly, evasive bullshit you've done multiple posts in this thread already.

                                    Let us review. You post a link to some tabloid conspiracy theory. That's your "once".

                                    I point out that they're so lazy they can't even be bothered to try to make it relevant (the list of non sequiturs about the CDC's failings) and they also quote other tabloid conspiracy theories as if they were fact (Russian anonymous sources claiming concern about US "biological activity"). It's tabloids all the way down. That's my once. A rational, honest person would have apologized and shut up at that point.

                                    Ever since, you've done some weird DARVO [wikipedia.org] nonsense, accusing me of "propaganda" and "tabloid conspiracy" when you're the only one in the thread doing that. You're accusing me of your failure.

                                    So will you for the first time present evidence supporting the assertion that the US is somehow responsible for COVID-19 in Wuhan? The CDC having problems is completely irrelevant. Russian anonymous sources pulled out of some tabloid writer's ass don't count. Alleged Chinese research that no one can find is not evidence. Out of context quotes from scientists in the news isn't evidence.

                                    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 17 2020, @06:46PM (1 child)

                                      by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 17 2020, @06:46PM (#984249) Journal

                                      Let us review.

                                      Knock yourself out

                                      --
                                      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..

                                      • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Friday April 17 2020, @08:17PM

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 17 2020, @08:17PM (#984297) Journal
                                        Already covered. I see you're still bullshitting. Evidence or STFU.

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 15 2020, @08:48PM (#983208)

      Troll

      Moderators need the scapegoats too. They are on patrol to protect the narrative.

(1) 2 3