'Right to repair' taken up by the ACCC in farmers' fight to fix their own tractors:
The 'right to repair' movement has finally bent the ear of Australia's competition and consumer watchdog, the ACCC, in its pleas to be able to fix their own farm equipment.
[...] Farmers have emerged as an unlikely force in the global right to repair movement.
The movement eschews the disposable culture of consumer electronics in favour of letting independent repairers and home tinkerers fix broken smartphones, tablets, and laptops.
Proponents want access to the code that makes modern machines hum, putting them at loggerheads with tech giants including Apple who own the proprietary software.
In the United States, farmers have risked voiding their warranties by hacking their own John Deere tractors with torrented software so they can carry out their own repairs.
[...] In its first deep dive into the modern agricultural machinery market, the ACCC published its discussion paper on the matter in late February and is seeking accounts from those who buy and use farm machinery, or repair it for a living.
"Broadacre croppers with large tractors, harvesters, seeders … and particularly tractors seem to be an area of some contention," Mr Keogh said.
"We have heard from dealers who say that they have no issues with providing service, yet we hear from independent service providers that they can't get access to the [software] diagnostic tools they need.
"In some cases they can't get access to the [manufacturers'] parts they need.
Related Stories
Hacking Ventilators With DIY Dongles From Poland:
As COVID-19 surges, hospitals and independent biomedical technicians have turned to a global grey-market for hardware and software to circumvent manufacturer repair locks and keep life-saving ventilators running.
The dongle is handmade, little more than a circuit board encased in plastic with two connectors. One side goes to a ventilator’s patient monitor, another goes to the breath delivery unit. A third cable connects to a computer.
This little dongle—shipped to him by a hacker in Poland—has helped William repair at least 70 broken Puritan Bennett 840 ventilators that he’s bought on eBay and from other secondhand websites. He has sold these refurbished ventilators to hospitals and governments throughout the United States, to help them handle an influx of COVID-19 patients. Motherboard agreed to speak to William anonymously because he was not authorized by his company to talk to the media, but Motherboard verified the specifics of his story with photos and other biomedical technicians.
William is essentially Frankensteining together two broken machines to make one functioning machine. Some of the most common repairs he does on the PB840, made by a company called Medtronic, is replacing broken monitors with new ones. The issue is that, like so many other electronics, medical equipment, including ventilators, increasingly has software that prevents “unauthorized” people from repairing or refurbishing broken devices, and Medtronic will not help him fix them.
[...] Delays in getting equipment running put patients at risk. In the meantime, biomedical technicians will continue to try to make-do with what they can. “If someone has a ventilator and the technology to [update the software], more power to them,” Mackeil said. “Some might say you’re violating copyright, but if you own the machine, who’s to say they couldn’t or they shouldn’t?”
I understand that there is an ongoing debate on the "right to repair". However, many manufacturers increasingly find ways to ensure that "unauthorised" people cannot repair their devices. Where do you stand on this issue? During the ongoing pandemic, do medical device manufacturers have the right to prevent repair by third parties?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by BananaPhone on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:39PM
"independent service providers that they can't get access to the [software] diagnostic tools they need.
In some cases they can't get access to the [manufacturers'] parts they need."
Louis Rossman knows all about this business model
https://youtu.be/NVAmnV65_zw?t=172 [youtu.be]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:31PM
Whoever wrote this doesn't know the farmers I know.
Around here, farmers make a lot of their own equipment from parts they cobble together from sources like Grainger, Inc. One of our neighbors who developed a "grove trimmer" to keep the sides of orange trees trimmed at a desired slope angle (to maximize solar exposure of the leaves between rows of trees), has been regularly contracted by the DOT to keep roadside mangroves trimmed.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:32PM (26 children)
<no-sarcasm>
The problem only seems to be that independent service providers can't get parts, technical information, etc.
The real problem is that technology is being used to DRM the farm machinery for no good reason. There is no good reason that a farmer should not be able to replace, say, a fender, without needing a special fender that has the right microchips in it to communicate with the main tractor and get updates. This is as evil as something I would expect from Lexmark, Oracle, Microsoft or even IBM back in their heyday.
Legislators need to keep their eye on the ball (the real problem) and not be distracted by the symptom (can't get parts, tech info, etc). The real solution is to ban this practice such that any independent service provider could design and produce their own spare parts. I would go so far that there should be nothing preventing a 3rd party from building spare parts for every single part of the entire tractor, such that an entire tractor could be assembled from completely 3rd party components. In theory. There may not be a market for spares of some parts, like, just saying, engine blocks.
In the large scope there shouldn't be any impediments to anyone building parts and servicing any type of vehicle or large machine. Monopolies are bad. They always have been. They always will be. No good comes from a monopoly -- in the long run. They only serve to artificially inflate prices. Just look at Big Pharma.
</no-sarcasm>
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:04PM (18 children)
You're right that this would make absolutely zero sense in an economy geared towards maximizing efficiency, human well-being, or environmental health. However, like a lot of other stupidity going on right now, it makes perfect sense in an economy geared towards maximizing return-on-investment for a relative handful of rich people. Now, I know the many defenders of late-stage capitalism think that one day, through faith, courage, hard work, and belief in the system, they'll one day become one of that relative handful of rich people, but I can pretty much guarantee that they won't be unless they were born into it.
Of course, when the laws get ridiculous enough, people will stop following them enough that it will be impossible to enforce it against most offenders, and soon we'll have rogue farm equipment mechanics sneaking into barns to illegally fix people's tractors.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:18PM (16 children)
Right. Capitalism. That's the problem.
Not a government dictating what people can do with the knowledge in their brains.
Oh no, not just capitalism, it's late-stage capitalism. Run for the hills!
This is pretty much how we find the people who think they understand economics in the twenty-first century, based on misinterpretations of the nineteenth.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:22PM
<no-sarcasm>
Capitalism run amok is the problem.
As I said, Monopolies are not good for anyone but the monopolists and those they can bribe. That is why once upon a time there were some laws that were enforced. Before capitalism allowed the buying and selling of laws, regulations, politicians, and justice.
</no-sarcasm>
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:23PM (14 children)
Late-stage capitalism is where capitalist businesses have bought the government, and are using that to write the rules the economy is using to their own advantage. A government could say "That's not an appropriate use of copyright protection", but they won't, because government answers to the corporations that are benefiting from that misuse of copyright protection rather than the other way around.
The really strange thing, though, isn't that politicians and the government they control are on the take from certain businesses, but how many non-politicians who don't control major businesses are actively supporting that practice. Which is why I think it's worth reminding those folks that no, you aren't going to be in the big club that runs things no matter what you do.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:46PM (13 children)
Was James Watt a "late-stage capitalist"? [jalopnik.com] The market acts against monopoly rents - what happened to Sun Microsystems business model when faced with commodity suppliers? The moment a large company misses a beat and it becomes cheaper for someone else to manufacture and service that item, that is the moment the large company loses that market. Even examples of longevity have there limit when profitability dips below the overhead costs for a large corporation - which is why GE are to cease manufacturing light bulbs.
... but you can order David Icke's latest book on amazon dot com!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:38PM (9 children)
Soooo you want to allow bad behavior that harms markets and customers because someday the monopolist will fuck up and lose their market capture?
That is your logic, really?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:35PM (8 children)
More a theory of moral sentiments tbh
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:53PM (7 children)
More a "I can't tell the difference between theory and practice" tbh. Or possibly more a "I got mine, pull up the lifeline" line of thinking, a school of thought unfortunately pervasive here. Or maybe more an empathy impairment due to some unknown brain trauma/social dysfunction To Be Perfectly Honest. Or maybe we're all just feeding the troll.
I seriously, seriously, seriously think the Voight-Kampff needs to be applied before anyone can post.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:01PM (6 children)
You would fail that test, you've clearly never read Aristotle or much else. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:44PM (1 child)
troll feeding it is
get lost scrip face!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @11:53PM
When you've finished with Smith, cover Aristotle [libertyfund.org] and come back when you have a grown-up argument in place of silly name calling. 150 years to the day since the birth of Lenin and some people have not only failed to learn but would willingly repeat the disaster.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday April 23 2020, @06:38AM (3 children)
Yes...feeding the troll it is.
And thank you sincerely for clarifying. You squarely fall in the "can't tell theory from practice" camp (possibly Asperger related) with some Venn diagram overlap into the other categories I'd mentioned. Possibly also with some socially-sanctioned "greed is good" sociopathy involved.
Get lost, squirt.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @01:05PM (2 children)
Did you ever think that instead of siding with the screeching child demanding a proverbial lollipop from someone else, you should instead help them make their own lollipops? What happens when that self-entitled child goes on to kill in order to deprive someone else of their property or was that your intention all along? Sociopathy may be characterized by a sense of entitlement and the employ of pity as a faux justification for anti-social acts. It's not by accident that those who complain the loudest about how "unfair" capitalism is also produce nothing of value. Here is the pro-social stance "you have no right to other peoples stuff".
But let's hammer those nails home on poor suffering Jesus and discuss Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. [scrapsfromtheloft.com]
An easy assumption would be that replicants were psychopaths but how would that scale to explain what happened in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? If you're familiar with the Milgram experiment, you already understand social pathology. The only person having publicly spelled it out in recent years was Jordan Peterson who lectured extensively on both the evils of collectivist societies and Jungian psychology. [wikipedia.org] Are the 66% of people who become monsters in variations on the Milgram experiment sociopaths, were Germans under Hitler or Russians under Stalin? Would the public in these societies describe themselves as evil, did they have integrated personalities with full self-awareness or were they accepting of authority and going along to get along?
So you see, you must be able to answer the inverse of the Voight-Kampff test; not "why aren't..." but "why are..."? That's where the questions get really interesting and if you're going along to get along like the nazi concentration camp guard, 66% of people in the Milgram test or people with no understanding of nicomachean ethics and the Jungian shadow (who routinely project their own subconscious onto others) - then you fail the test!
I fear you are lost, perhaps your father should have used a tissue? Then again there's only so much we can say about the successful practice of capitalism Vs the failed theory of socialism (AKA: sociopathy). Perhaps next time if only you make those "evil capitalists" wear badges or something?
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday April 23 2020, @02:53PM (1 child)
Hey, thanks for the laughs, coward. At very least your disconnected ravings seem eloquent.
Note to self: I really have to stop dogwhistling to the insane.
I'm still convinced of your theory/practice resolution problems, tho. Go out and get some sun. No, really...I mean right now. And remember to take deep breaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @07:42PM
My pleasure although "coward" here implies personal privacy, the term "anonymous coward" was always a joke but true cowardice is no joke. [aristotelianphilosophy.com] As Jung once observed:
Virtue signaling is not a new phenomenon. "Socialists" then; clearly not taught to respect the rights of others [psycom.net] yet somehow perpetual victims. [wikipedia.org] A line of wrong-think that enabled them to slaughter the Kulaks. Socialists consider themselves entitled to other peoples labor but are too cowardly to call themselves slavers. Are they sticking up for the oppressed against the oppressor are they?
And those who can't start their own business because the sociopath told them they couldn't, that there's some shadowy cabal intent on holding them back. [kafka-online.info] Failure is baked-in to the lives of sociopaths, aspiration and success threatens them. As if anyone can stop you making the moral choice to start a company to manufacture ice-lollies or tractors. LMFAO!!!
(Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:35PM
David Icke spouts bollocks and is a dick and was so when he was a BBC bowls commentator.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday April 22 2020, @11:48PM (1 child)
Which is true. That is exactly why capital has been purchasing stricter and longer lasting IP laws over the last 50 years or so.
Markets are hard, and what they really want is control. Which they have.
This is one of the points made in the article.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @12:14AM
Copying is cheap but R&D is an expensive sunk cost that a business and investors have to recover before profit. Nothing here dictates being an asshole and annoying your customers, so why people are reading my comments as a defense of JD is a mystery to me?
We've seen industrial manufacturers trying to withhold schematics for decades, their equipment (and the brand) ends up being devalued. What deprecation on a John Deere when the resale collapses because the company will not support it after 10 years?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @11:13AM
Sure, but capitalism is everywhere and will always be. There is as much wrong with capitalism as there is with getting sunburnt. Our societies on earth have decided to be different on how to regulate capitalism, some wish no regulation at all and some adapt capitalism as a tool to better society by organising workers and employers manifesting in negotiations that benefit everyone, and it works because not even the workers want capitalism to break down - who would have known? In my country the state is a passive third party that only step in if things hardlock. We have plenty of rich business owners, who live in fine houses in expensive parts of town and get to buy expensive things and they deserve it.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:46PM (1 child)
I agree wholeheartedly, in principle. In practice, this means independent design reviews between competitors, or maybe worse: by independent reviewers of dubious knowledge and intent, and endless bickering.
I favor a form of incentivization - something like a tax on new product that is slowly refunded as that product is used. Want to sell a $500K combine? Fine, there's a $100K tax on that. Similar combines are similarly taxed. Now: the combines which have the lowest cost of ownership over the next 20+ years will get their taxes refunded, perhaps even bonused for exceptional performance as compared to the rest of the market. The scheme is vulnerable to monopoly/collusion behavior in the industry, but if Joe Farmer can put out a reasonable combine that has lower cost of ownership, he can get massive tax incentives that will help him compete against the big boys who are milking the market.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:56PM
It worked pretty well everywhere before manufacturers discovered DRM. It's why there's such a variety of manufacturers for various USB things, ethernet devices, automotive air and oil filters (and often engine parts) etc, etc, etc.
You should look into the world of 3D printing. Not necessarily from the standpoint of actually doing any yourself, but to see what can happen in an ecosystem where specs are open. Rather than a $2000 American made printer, I bought a $200 Chinese made printer. I have the firmware source and complete mechanical drawings. The steppers are industry standard. I could have sourced all of the parts 3rd party and built my own, but it was cheaper and easier to buy it (partially) pre-assembled from them. It works every bit as well as the $2000 American devices. The big difference is the housing. The Chinese printer has none. That is actually an advantage. I can get at any part of it easily and visually check it for proper operation (it's not like it has whirling blades or fast moving belts and shafts to catch limbs).
If U.S. manufacturers don't hop on that bandwagon, they will indeed be replaced, by manufacturers in other countries. In the world of heavy equipment, I'm seeing a lot more Kubota and Mahindra than I used to. The big three in Detroit thought they had a lock on the U.S. market in the early '70s. Now they're looking like also-rans and Detroit is a shambles.
American manufacturers need right to repair laws to save them from themselves.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:17PM (1 child)
Except that legislative engineering is where the impetus for much of the proprietary electronics comes from. John Deere's excuse for locking down their hardware is emissions controls. For more examples just look at airbags or tire pressure monitoring systems. Even a seat or a wheel needs sensors in it now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:45PM
Exactly: excuse. Lack of legislation would not change this behavior, only the excuses used for it.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:09PM
Said no monopoly CEO, Board of Directors, or shareholder, ever.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:18PM (1 child)
I think part of the problem is the claim culture. Manufacturers use this DRM type repair system to avoid having to disprove claims, by users who messed up their equipment in an unprofessional way.
They've found a way to immediately trow out any claim where machinery was repaired by unqualified people.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:33PM
That may be a side effect, but I doubt it is the primary motive.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:08PM (15 children)
I know the farm culture of the Midwest, and even a little of that of Australia. It's not at all like the West Coast, which has a casualness towards waste. Farmers value efficiency highly. In Iowa, 75 year old tractors are still in use. They aren't the mainstay of the farm, they've long since been relegated to light work in small plots, but they're still there, and used.
A very few farms even have old, steam engine powered equipment parked somewhere out of the way, sometimes put to use more for historical re-enactment, but still doing a bit of useful work while showing the kids how it used to be. Also, they can, in a real painfully tight pinch, be used in case there's some reason that more modern tractors can't. Suppose gasoline and diesel fuels ran short for some reason? During WWII, authorities rationed gasoline. The farms could do without fuel and power the steam tractors with wood (many farms have plenty), and still produce crops, albeit far less. Today, better to have flex fuel tractors that can run on ethanol, and distill that, rather than turn to wood burning steamers. Steam is done. And, I'd guess, internal combustion may soon follow as batteries improve to the point that an all-electric tractor becomes practical.
The whole idea of exercise, as in working up a lot of sweat and expending a lot of energy and time by running around in circles or lifting weights, solely for the purpose of increasing physical fitness while accomplishing absolutely nothing else, always seemed really weird and Californian to the farmers of the Midwest. That effort should have been expended in farm labor. And moreover, if they had put in a proper day of laboring on a farm, not only would they have gotten all the exercise they could need, they'd be too tired to do any more.
Naturally, that thrifty attitude extends to equipment. Equipment is costly, and replacing same is not lightly done. It especially grates if there is any artificial restriction that makes repair more difficult than it need be.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:33PM (1 child)
<no-sarcasm>
It is critically important that trucks, tractors, implements, people and other equipment all be in good working order come harvest time. There is a limited window of time. This is the entire money that the farmer will earn for the entire year. Imagine if your yearly earnings was tied to a few weeks of long hours and dependent upon working equipment during that time.
</no-sarcasm>
You would hope that on your farm the diesel generators, the CRAC and UPS systems were working with no drive or server failures.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:05PM
Exactly. And that's part of why farmers want to be able to do an in-house repair right now rather than loading the expensive equipment on a flatbed and hauling it 200 miles to a scheduled appointment for authorized service.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:44PM (3 children)
ehm ... i would like to argue that when it comes to "end of the world tech(tm)", steam would probably still win over bio-ethanol.
my guess is that burning "any" organics under/thru a boiler (water is like sunshine but might need to be treated for a boiler) for steam and then whatnot is preferred over "wasting" a good drink at the end of a hard day? (news: apoclypse farmer reports be prefers drinking distillate over burning it).
am not sure quantum mechanics and relativity and what else has, in hind-sight, shown us an alternative path of development from "annealing" spear tips in fire, bronze, iron, coal, iron++, steam, electricity, whales to black blood of mother nature and finally half-atoms and solidstate devices ...?
if push comes to shove, methinks, the development chain would have to be repeated ... i hope we got enough whales by then.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deimtee on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:25PM (2 children)
A lot of that was the development of knowledge. If a group of humans could could take a high school library with them, they could jump from "dropped on a new Earth" to 0BC in a few weeks, to 16th C in a year or so, late 19th C in a decade or two. Then I think they would hit a wall, depending on the size of the group. Development past that requires population and infrastructure and they would only advance as fast as their population grew.
Given a TEOTWAWKI event here, there would still be a lot of already refined resources. It would be a farming/scavenger culture for a long time.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:42PM (1 child)
hmmm ... i see what you're saying. however, even with a future-tech book transported into the past, there still remains the factor of human lettargy or aka "fun". not to mention mundane stuff like shelter and food in tummy and the forever more "time waste" of child rearing.
consider that whilst a team is "wasting time" implementing the text book they're doing so on borrowed time from the group, since they're not contributing to any of the mundane stuff above.
i think, with hind sight of course :) the developments mentioned (spear to solid state) weren't so difficult considering the time span.
so i think what would be alot more usefull for a group to go from stone age to future are probably text books on weapons, military tactics and "population management".
obviously as the leader of the group, implementing development requires to keep the "sheap" (and wolfes) in line and abit of wool over ear pulling is required. not all "time wasting" is always instantly obvious for everyone.
p.s. maybe a "shortcut" exists if we can get/keep solid state devices and microwave making devices past the apocalypse?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:59PM
p.p.s i forgot on topic comment:
in a perfect world, of course all parts can be serviced by owner but in reality, parts from a country not mentioned here are cheap and could potentially be engineered to fail at set intervals. afterall this country is known to thrieve on high churn and waste isn't a issue. methinks their philosophy is that durability and sturdyness are for gready and lazy people?
agriculture, not yet dominated by mentioned country, maybe doesn't want to be dependant on a imported "parts replacement tax"? that's about all things positif i can wring from this poor mind on why DRM in americam made farm machinary might be a good thing?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:54PM (2 children)
I know the farm culture of the Midwest, and even a little of that of Australia. It's not at all like the West Coast, which has a casualness towards waste. Farmers value efficiency highly. In Iowa, 75 year old tractors are still in use.
Before you bash the west coast too much, keep in mind that John Deere (the main villain in these farm-equipment-repair stories) is headquartered in Illinois and has all its main US operations in Illinois and Iowa (and a little in ND and GA). The managers and engineers creating all this DRMed junk aren't a bunch of wasteful west-coasters pushing DRM on honest midwesterners, this is midwesterners doing it to themselves.
(Score: 2) by RedGreen on Thursday April 23 2020, @12:56AM (1 child)
"The managers and engineers creating all this DRMed junk aren't a bunch of wasteful west-coasters pushing DRM on honest midwesterners, this is midwesterners doing it to themselves."
I give you a hundred to one on the odds for the vast majority of them, being from schools that teach this garbage to their
graduates, using those parasites methods of doing things. With another good possibility that those same people are from a place other than where they work at there now.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 23 2020, @02:58AM
Well the engineers probably largely went to school on the east coast, because that's where most tech schools are. The managers could have gone anywhere though. They teach that crap in MBA schools everywhere (in the US) these days.
Also, Iowa isn't really a place a lot of non-midwestern people would want to relocate to. I would not be surprised if most of the people working at Deere there came from that area originally. For engineers at least, there's lots of places where they can work across the country, and those locations aren't big draws.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:06PM
One of my favorite parts of the Lake County, CA Pear Festival is the old engines they set up. I don't know if they see any use outside of exhibition, but there's something mesmerizing about watching these old machines saw logs or shell corn. Sadly, the whole thing is likely to be cancelled this year.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:52PM (4 children)
The whole idea of working up a sweat whilst lifting bales, driving plows, etc. seems really weird and Midwestern to people around here who would much rather tinker in their garage/barn making a machine that can do 10x the work of a man for 1/10th the effort in the same time.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:30PM (2 children)
Why, yes, tinkering in the barn, improving the machinery, or inventing machinery, coming up with inventive solutions for various problems, is certainly a productive use of time and labor. That's very much a tradition in the Midwest. Farmers are always watching out for good ideas and scheming how to save themselves labor. The more efficiently they can farm, the more land they can work.
They'll certainly put their backs into a job when there's no getting around the manual labor, but if there is a way to mechanize it that isn't too costly or unwieldy, they'd rather do that. If mindless labor seems so Midwestern to people around you, they've been eating up too much anti-farmer propaganda, about the Midwest being "flyover country", Iowa being nothing but a giant, flat cornfield, and farmers being dumb country bumpkins and hicks.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:48PM
In the early 2000s, I'd still meet the occasional hick who was proud of sleeping without air conditioning in their home, but starting since the 1970s or so - air conditioned cabs have moved from something for wimps to pretty much expected equipment. They'll still step out and load 80lb bags on a pallet when called for, but it's a simple fact: the machines that take care of you get more work done by you. I've seen it in myself, and had a local call it out for me when he said "I'm sorry, I'm having a brain infarction, can you explain that again?" - hard work in the heat does lower I.Q. - temporarily in most cases, but it's a real effect.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 23 2020, @02:52PM
You just reminded me of a roommate I had when I was 20. Pretty good guy, overall, but he had an annoying habit of always matching your best story with one even better. Some guys are just like that. Scott listened to a few of us talking about the hills and mountains we grew up on, and immediately inflated Iowa dunes or whatever into mountain ranges. Someone looked up Iowa's highest and lowest elevations, and exclaimed, "My backyard varies more than your whole state!" The guy was hard to live with for weeks after that!
Yeah, I know, off topic, but hill people can't resist poking a little fun at flatlanders, especially those with tall tales to tell!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:18PM
As a Midwestern farmer, it is a really weird idea around here too. "Work Smarter, not harder" is the motto around here. With margins so thin, you can't just brute your way through anymore. And if you ask a farmer, that "mindless labor" is anything but. However, they also have seen first hand how farming isn't for everyone and that if you don't take care of things, then they break. Why would they attack someone for having luxuries they don't? Most comments I hear about the slickers come from a place of jealousy, as opposed to a sense of superiority. Just ask them what they think of their own children or families working a desk and it will be made instantly clear.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:02PM
Perth based lawyer Luke O'Callaghan, who specialises in competition and consumer protection matters, said one of the more interesting focuses of the inquiry was the question of who owned information collected on private farms with protected software.
"Because of the fact they can't shift their historical data to a new provider … then you can be in an invidious position where you get locked in over a period of time.
Sounds like not only do you not own the right to use your own tractor, you might also not own the right to use data for your own land?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:03PM (5 children)
"In the United States, farmers have risked voiding their warranties by hacking their own John Deere tractors with torrented software so they can carry out their own repairs."
This is confusing. If it's under warranty make the manufacturer repair it. If it's not then what warranty do you have to worry about voiding?
If it takes too long for the manufacturer to repair it you can either do one of the following things.
Negotiate repair term (or temporary replacement) times before purchasing the tractor.
Have a backup tractor for the interim period.
(Score: 5, Informative) by sjames on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:19PM (2 children)
Not confusing at all. You have crops ripe for harvest in the field. You can make the manufacturer repair the harvester in 4 weeks while your crops rot in the field or you can risk the warranty, fix it NOW, and harvest your crops while they are still worth something. The value of bringing the crop in dwarfs the cost of the DIY repair. From there it's grade school arithmetic.
Farmers deal with a lot of natural hard deadlines like monsoons, hard freeze, etc. Meet the deadline or have no income FOR THE YEAR, no do-overs. They don't have time to wait for some guy with an appointment book "squeeze them in".
It's a much higher stakes version of the consumer "warranty" experience of just shop it to Korea and they'll get right on that warranty repair.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:31PM
There is also the differing lengths of warranties. Sure the engine and gearbox might get 5 years, but the steering only gets 3, and when it needs fixing after 4 years you either pay premium prices or void the engine and gearbox warranties.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 23 2020, @03:02PM
There is a parallel here, between farmers and the military. You use what you have, and abuse it if you have to, because the job has to be done NOW. Whatever is at hand, you adapt it to your needs, because you can't adapt your needs to whatever is at hand. And, yes, survival is at stake, in both cases.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:40PM (1 child)
I suspect the article has that wrong. No one is too worried about voiding a warranty, for several reasons. First, the warranty may be worthless. For instance, LG stipulates that their warranty covers only parts, not labor, and that to qualify for parts, the work must be done at one of their blessed and approved shops that, naturally, charges inflated labor rates. Trying to exercise that warranty can well cost more than going outside the warranty, to an independent shop. Might even be more than junking the broken equipment and buying new.
The warranty can be far from full. Like, it might cover only the stainless steel parts, while it is of course the plain steel and aluminum that corrodes and breaks.
Finally, and worst, the warranty can be a dishonest, veiled scare tactic, intended to frighten the owner into believing the equipment is much too complicated and powerful and dangerous for mere mortal consumers to repair, while also laying out lots of conditions and exceptions that make it worthless, even attempting to take back provisions in consumer law, suggesting the item isn't returnable if disassembled or used in an unapproved manner, which could be any manner at all. That sort of malarkey is why people are right not to even read warranties. I'm a bit disappointed that the media fell for that one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @03:14PM
The people buying these tractors need to negotiate all of these terms before buying or else find a competitor. Small businesses that purchase machinery can in fact negotiate terms and they have negotiating power. Big companies don't want to lose revenue even from small customers and they will work with them to find agreeable terms if the small business threatens to go to a competitor.
If the problem is that there isn't enough competition then that's something that should be discussed separately. Why isn't there enough competition? Too much intellectual property? Tractors are an old technology and it shouldn't be too difficult for a competitor to build a basic tractor without having to violate someone's IP forcing the tractor company to make their product at least competitive with a basic tractor. Unless there is IP that's being retroactively applied to older technology but that's something that should be specifically discussed separately.
Are there newer environmental, safety, or other laws that make it more difficult for a startup to build a tractor the old way so they have to do it a new way and the new way violates intellectual property? If so that should be discussed and addressed separately as well.
Is there a government agency that needs to approve tractors before they can be placed on the market and that limits approvals? That too needs to be discussed.
If these tractor companies are making so much money off of ridiculous terms and whatnot what's stopping competitors from taking their cake?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @12:43PM
Current environmental protection laws make it illegal to modify a tractor's emission related operation.
Manufacturers use this as cover to add countermeasures to which support 'I own your tractor'.
Perhaps the environmental rules could make it clear that the job of the manufacturer is to design a working tractor that meets emissions. that should include making it easy to work on the thing, not the reverse.