from the we-will-share-whatever-we-find,-right? dept.
U.S. Officials: Beware Of China And Others Trying To Steal COVID-19 Research
As researchers around the globe race to develop a coronavirus vaccine, U.S. authorities are warning American firms to exercise extreme caution in safeguarding their research against China and others with a track record of stealing cutting-edge medical technology.
"We are imploring all those research facilities and hospitals and pharmaceutical companies that are doing really great research to do everything in their power to protect it," Bill Evanina, the director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, said in an interview with NPR.
"We don't want that company or the research hospital to be the one a year from now, two years from now, identified as having it all stolen before they finished it," said Evanina, whose center falls under the director of national intelligence.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security and Britain's National Cyber Security Center recently issued a statement saying hackers are "actively targeting organisations ... that include healthcare bodies, pharmaceutical companies, academia, medical research organisations, and local government."
The statement did not name China or any other country. Reuters reported that hackers linked to Iran tried to break into email accounts at the U.S. drugmaker Gilead Sciences, which has a potentially promising drug to treat the COVID-19 virus. Iran denied the report.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:05PM (48 children)
It amazes me we humans have gotten as far as we have when I see things like this.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:16PM (11 children)
What makes this so weird is that many research organizations are pre-publishing results as soon as they have something promising. I believe there are a lot of results up on non-peer-reviewed sites--testimony to the attitude that, "We (the world) are all in this virus thing together."
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:22PM (1 child)
We are all in this together, as long as I get all the credit for the work you contributed.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:56PM
oh yea! You can have all the credit as long as I get all the profit
(Score: 5, Insightful) by krishnoid on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:44PM
Absolutely, at least one non-peer-reviewed site has at least some level of peer review associated with it, and in many cases, a great deal of consensus and wide dissemination. Oh, you weren't talking about Facebook! My bad.
But it finally took an urgent and simultaneously worldwide/individual-level issue to provide video evidence that at even the highest level of government, blaming, praising, overriding, and diverting wins elections but it doesn't move off the starting square when it comes to producing *any* relevant value from a leader.
We are definitely all in this together when we stare this strategy straight in the face and see the results it doesn't produce -- and maybe identify those people and that behavior in our personal/professional lives, make the connection, and hopefully stop it/them sooner rather than later. Even if we can't fix anything, at least now we have a documented shared experience we can all use as reference, assuming we survive [tenor.com].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:54PM
Results, but not methods. At least, not well enough to be easily replicable. And I wouldn't attribute to altruism what can be replaced by greed. It's just as easily explicable as the group that gets to call firsties is well positioned to cash in on the resultant therapies developed by the research. Even with accelerated approval processes any actual therapeutic results would have to be peer reviewed before any organization can actually take something to trial.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:01PM (6 children)
That's the way science is supposed to work. "Stealing"? That's just brain-dead stupid but the reaction I expect from those who worship money and power..
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:42PM (5 children)
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday May 17 2020, @07:13PM (4 children)
I believe "human nature" is a myth. There are honest people who try to do good, and then there are liars, cheats, thieves, and fraudsters. Not all of us were raised by good parents.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 17 2020, @09:13PM (3 children)
I believe most "human nature" is game theoretic and would exist for any sentient beings with differing interests. Here, it's a standard example of where there is a payoff for a few to defect from collective cooperation for greater personal advantage.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:33PM (2 children)
Some people are generous, some are stingy. Some are liars and thieves, and some are honest. Human nature? It's my nature to be truthful, but is not in our president's nature to be so, yet we are both homo sapienns, with incredibly different natures.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:31PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday May 22 2020, @02:57PM
Indeed. "Human nature" is simply instinct, something every animal has. But our species has the ability to overcome instinct; we have logic and reason. We can overcome instinct, if we realize that instinct is what we're acting on.
As a social animal, the herding instinct is strong in us, but those who overcome that instinct to follow are the leaders. Like everyone else, they all have varying amounts of empathy. Some people donate to the poor, others steal from them.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 5, Insightful) by martyb on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:39PM (14 children)
The United States has an opportunity to take the lead in finding mitigations (and, ultimately) a cure for COVID-19.
Scientists are working around the clock trying to understand the virus. How does it manifest in an infection? What system(s) in the body does it attack, and how? What are its weaknesses? What methods and medications have proven helpful in mitigating the disease's progression? What are the long term effects? What can be done about them?
Research is being performed to answer these and many other questions. Answers, or even indications of answers are being published in the hopes that one more piece of evidence can help someone else. Maybe just one more bit of insight into what is happening will be the key that unlocks a cure.
When I was learning programming, I was always impressed how selflessly others would share tricks and tips to help get around programming challenges. We were so excited about the field and were so happy to share what we learned with the next person. How to optimize a loop. Speed up an algorithm. Reduce the amount of memory required. How to get a core routine to fit entirely into registers or cache and get a many-fold improvement in efficiency.
For no better motive than having been in a similar boat and someone helped me out back then. Besides, watching someone take an idea and "run with it" and craft something entirely new from it? Exhilarating!
I see that same attitude in the scientific community. Everybody pulling together and trying to add what little they can to help in this fight against a deadly foe.
The United States should be spearheading the investigation. Gathering into one place all the acquired knowledge for ready dissemination and review. Building on the shoulders of giants and of humble lab workers who run countless tests and assays. Making it freely available to any and all comers. ISTR Pasteur or Salk refused to patent penicillin or something like that? We should do the same during this pandemic..
Be the example to the world of how to work together against a common foe and freely help others during this time. Any financial gain from a cure would pale by comparison to the goodwill which would come to the US for such an unselfish act.
And then I read things like this. It saddens my heart.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:45PM (13 children)
I thought the US believed Covid-19 was a hoax?
:)
It used to be that research was shared freely around the world so that a solution could be found quickly: now it is all about patents and "PROFIT!", so that the same research is done over and over and over and kept secret.
It's a shame that the human race is so based on money and not human welfare.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:30AM (12 children)
I reckon only some of Trump's supporters did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 5, Informative) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:53AM (10 children)
As far as I can tell, most of his supporters still seem to think so. Some of them are basically saying the whole thing is a big conspiracy so the Illuminati can take over the world. I wish I was joking, but this is seriously what a large fraction of Americans believe these days.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by arslan on Wednesday May 13 2020, @06:17AM (8 children)
I thought that was already the kind of mentality long before Trump came along. I mean those supermarket checkout tabloid talking about UFOs and Bigfoot are so popular for so long now - there must be enough cuckoos around to keep those business viable. But sure lets blame it on Trump, might as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:53PM (2 children)
I still remember the one with "photographic proof" that aliens abducted cows.
The proof was a picture of cows grazing on a hillside, and another picture of that same hillside with... NO COWS!"
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:22PM (1 child)
Maybe there were no cows, but how much cowbell was there?
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:36PM
I couldn't tell, I keep the guitar amp turned up to 11.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:02PM (2 children)
Well said. Trump didn't invent the phenomenon and he doesn't really convince people. Instead people are attracted to him, and he just taps into their crazy.
The only question is the L. Ron Hubbard conundrum. Is he smarter than believing the shit he puts out and is really doing a con job, or is he really as dumb as those who follow him? Me, I think he's just as blind as his followers and really is that stupid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @11:44PM (1 child)
I think its a bit of both. He's not smart like we how we would normally attribute that word, but he's a shrewd, ruthless and have enough business smarts to be more successful in business than your average joe sixpack.
What I find amusing though is the "smart" people just blaming everything on him when it is so apparent that he's just manipulating situations for his own purpose.
I find it even more entertaining when celebrities's head blows up when ranting about Trump, that's more entertaining than whatever flick they've done - and some have won awards! If that isn't the pinnacle of reality TV, I don't know what is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 14 2020, @04:22PM
I wish I could believe that. He's ruthless, yes. He's had some successes. But there is no proof that he's more successful than anyone else would have been having given his advantages. Questions have been asked [fortune.com] about this very point.
And yes, it's kind of easy to blame him when he should bear the responsibility for the things he says and does or does not. It's just as amazing that he can manipulate others into believing he's in charge of everything without taking responsibility for his mistakes.
Gee, show me some of the celebrities heads who have blown up? I see a lot of them calling him out on his bullshit, but very little 'head blowing up' as you put it. I'm sure you'll find some for me, but I see a lot more invective, name calling, and shouting down of those speaking the truth by Trump and his supporters than any of his opponents. Hard to believe that somebody whom his supporters feel is great and wonderful can't even get 50% approval.... almost like only a little less than half the country support him where more than half are opposed.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:48PM (1 child)
Hey, I never blamed Trump for this. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just pointing out what a bunch of Americans believe. As another responder pointed out, this kind of crazy has been around long before Trump, but he's brought it out into the open and made it socially acceptable.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Wednesday May 13 2020, @11:47PM
My bad. I wasn't saying you did, was referring to the more general practice of "Blame Trump".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:09PM
Lots of them don't think covid-19 itself is a hoax, but they don't think that it's a serious enough disease to lockdown. They think the death counts are overcounts.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by mcgrew on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:04PM
Some of Trump's supporters, none of them with an IQ over 70, still do. This is the worst possible time to have a narcissistic, incompetent pathological liar in the White House.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 2, Interesting) by corey on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:51PM (20 children)
Am I the only one here seeing why the US sees this as a strategic issue?
It's because whoever comes up with a cure will be laughing to the bank. Billions of vaccines are in need by all governments around the world with tons of money to throw at it. Whoever that will be, will name their price and I sure would like to buy shares. The US government obviously would prefer that to be a US company from a strategic perspective. Also because big pharma are big lobbyists.
It's somewhat like the Moon landing, national pride etc.
And there are the usual crew who use cyber espionage to advance their technology and scientific research without putting in the work, you know who they are.
I understand that we should all band together to rid this virus, but the reality is, money. And nationalism. Usual stuff. We're just humans.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:04PM (8 children)
There is another option. martyb said it so much better than I could, his comment is just above yours.
The thing is, there is no reason every drug company in the world can't make a profit out of a vaccine for this virus, it just wouldn't be the monopoly profits they really want.
As noted by martyb, Jonas Salk didn't patent the polio vaccine. He thought it was too important.
I don't think it is a human thing to want to profit from other people's suffering.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by HiThere on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:20PM (2 children)
It's one of the human things. Sharing is another. We call one of those humane to make the distinction. And while individual humans can be ethical and moral, we've designed our laws and customs so that organizations are neither. The larger and more legalistic the organizations are, the less ethical and moral they tend to be.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:11PM
It's not a human thing to want to profit off other's suffering. It is a sociopath thing to do that. Sociopaths are a parasitic subset of humans.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:40PM
Bears repeating:
/me points finger at government
--
Old lady #1: My joints are stiff.
Old lady #2: You're rolling them too tight.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:55AM (3 children)
I don't think it is a human thing to want to profit from other people's suffering.
Obviously, you're either hopelessly naive or you haven't been around other humans much. Humans have been trying to either profit from, or at least laugh at, other peoples' suffering ever since humans evolved. Remember the gladiator games in ancient Rome? It's no better now; now we have stuff like "boxing". And since human fights to the death aren't legal any more, now we still have people who organize such fights between animals.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:28AM (2 children)
Except, of course, the boxing matches aren't to the death and don't involve a huge stream of endangered wild animals.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @06:22AM (1 child)
No we just "kill" people that don't take the fall at the right round after the game and we eat endangered wild animals or poach their parts. It all still happens, just more discreetly. Human nature haven't really change all that much fundamentally. Modern society has introduced a fabric to suppress these behaviors from outright manifestation, but they're still there and manifest itself where not easily seen. Generalizing here of course, and there's enough decent folks around, but there's enough that aren't.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday May 13 2020, @06:49AM
That's reaching pretty hard. So we don't do the Roman thing any more as you just showed.
Except of course, in many ways including the glaring ones you just illustrated.
Oh look, another huge way we've made progress. You're on a roll!
Part of the success of a society is in finding a way for the indecent folk to be themselves without leaving a trail of bodies. I think we did a pretty good job there.
(Score: 2) by corey on Wednesday May 13 2020, @11:47PM
I don't think it is a human thing to want to profit from other people's suffering
While I agree in part to the above, capitalism makes people less human by logic then. Our prosper is based on suffering by others: garment workers in Bangladesh, people living next to chemical factories overseas, mine workers like the slave labour for Nickel extraction, Amazon workers, iPhone assembly line workers, people who have to work for Trump and Harvey Weinstein, people of the Pacific islands whose homes are slowly disappearing under water, etc etc.
I think we live in different times to when the polio vaccine was developed, and capitalism of the big rich pharma corps will prevail.
I mean look at how Trump prompted that Larium drug recently, it ended up killing more people than helping them. I say follow the money.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:21AM
Thank you Martin Shkreli. I thought you were in jail. Your attitude is why the world is in such a mess right now.
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:52AM (2 children)
In other circumstances that might be the case, but if you've been following the current administration's actions over Covid19 since it started the actual motive is "we're going to have it and you won't, nyah nyah nyah-nyah".
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:57PM (1 child)
See Trump doesn't want to make the same mistake that Obama did with the avian flu.
When that hit the States, we had a test out in about a week, and a vaccine in about 8 months. Then we shared both of those with all nations. We were even given thanks from ("death to America") Iran for how freely we shared this tech.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:14PM
You've got to admit though, Obama was pretty clever with the handling of H5N1, he managed to arrange all that in the time period before he was president. Let's see Trump do something that requires time travel in order to accomplish. #ObamaTimeTravelGate!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:34AM (5 children)
I'm almost sure that if China will come first with a vaccine**, the current US administration will just refuse to buy it.
** it has good chances: it has a head start and it's easier to prioritize a nation's resources under an authoritarian government (e.g. building 2 hospitals in a single week when they were needed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:19PM (1 child)
What would be really funny/silly/sad is if some other country came up with a vaccine and the US then used the provisions of the Doha Declaration, intended to help developing nations and which the US fought tooth and nail every step of the way, to manufacture it in the US.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:00PM
To be entirely sincere, I don't think the actual administration will try to block the import, it will be Trump to fight importing it. Perhaps not in the most obvious way (e.g. suddenly FDA will be instructed to apply the most stringent certification protocols), but he'll very likely fight the import.
Because importing it would be admitting his incompetence in dealing with covid**, that he failed to MAGA, that he lost the "trade war that was to be so easy to win"
---
** his only chances: either US discovers it (and, woohoo, Trump will take some credit) or a vaccine is not possible (and "toldcha one day the virus will just disappear")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:06PM (1 child)
If China comes up with a vaccine, then the Intel backdoor will open wide and NSA will slurp their milkshake. We're not even secret about it.
So worrying about China stealing it is the highest hypocrisy.
The "migration" of any intellectual property will be faster than the migration of the virus itself. NSA will slurp it, Israel will steal it, China will copy it. Researchers will leak it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:38PM
Meh, NSA may be in for a surprise if the Chinese use Huawei routers.
Fingers crossed for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 14 2020, @04:42AM
> if China will come first with a vaccine**, the current US administration will just refuse to buy it.
No idea if that is a true prediction. But the "reverse" did happen. A college roommate (b. 1953) grew up in China and contracted polio well after the vaccine was commonly available in USA/Europe. Left him with one leg that stopped growing, it had to be broken & stretched (excruciatingly painful) a few times so he could use it to hobble around.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Wednesday May 13 2020, @11:50PM
Won't some countries just buy a sample, reverse engineer and manufacture anyway? There's enough countries that don't give 2 bits about patents, and in dire situations like these, if enough G20 countries decide to do the same, what's gonna happen?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:23PM (11 children)
Why would we want them to have a cure for the virus? Surely we would just share a cure/vaccine if we had it? No way we would want to keep it for ourselves.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by exaeta on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:38PM (10 children)
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:56PM (4 children)
By Zeus! A situation so dire, an action so perverse, that I am in full agreement with exaeta! Has anyone heard loud trumpeting, Four Horsemen, or Seven Seals opening up?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:36AM
In nova fert animus mutatas dicere formas corpora -- (c)ovid
(Score: 0, Troll) by exaeta on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:52AM (2 children)
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday May 13 2020, @09:12AM
Your appeal is denied, exaeta, without comment or justification, because it is just too stupid to refute. No sane person would ever think that "stealing research" was even a thing, and only because they have no idea what research is, or what it is for. Of course, we have several non-sane types right here in Soylent City, who seem to think the purpose of research is to make tons of money restricting lifesaving information from the less fortunate. You named them, not I.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15 2020, @01:25AM
"You just hate everything Trump does automatically"
Well, when such a rule never fails :/ J/k, Trump hasn't been criticized for his non-fuckups, it is on you to prove he was.
"my views don't depend on which politician is agreeing with them"
trollololololol
(Score: 2, Informative) by RandomFactor on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:40PM (2 children)
I'm just gonna throw out there that if a researcher's machine gets hacked there are FAR more likely scenarios than just having their research data exfiltrated without damage and used for the good of humanity.
For example
1) Encrypt that data, demand those sweet grant monies be sent to the hacker as bitcoins to get it back
2) Toss credential stealers on the machine. Drain grant accounts. Retirement accounts. Kids college accounts.
3) Use your 401k for a pump and dump
4) Make the machine(s) unusable (or at least slower) mining coin
5) File a patent on your research before you do.
6) Screw up the data just to watch the world burn, maybe claim credit for notoriety
7) Plant evidence to destroy the reputation of the running dog capitalist researcher
8) Bot the machine. Send out teh spamz!
9) Gimme that address list so I can sell those addresses
10) House warez, malware, etc.
and so on
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:52PM (1 child)
This is why all research should be shared around the world with all researchers.
One researcher gets hacked...who cares! All the others will just share the info back and the research will go on.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:26AM
Heh, that takes care of scenario 1 :-p
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:49PM (1 child)
Take that to the U.N.
I'd vote for that.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @03:58PM
More seriously. Would love to see a vote in the UN that the vaccine/cure should be free to copy and manufacture.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:32PM (11 children)
Yea...that's what we need to be worried about. Meanwhile, Trump's cut funding for a critical research group (one that made the testing of Remdesivir possible by the way) because they work with the Chinese, and mainly based on a complete fucking lie told by Matt Gaetz on Fox News. That was a claim that the Chinese were given a $3.7M grant by the NIH which never ever happened:
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-administration-coronavirus-vaccine-researcher-covid-19-cure-60-minutes/ [cbsnews.com]
I'm guessing also because it doesn't fit into the conspiracy theory where China fabricated it. There just isn't a fucking hell hot enough for all these mother fuckers.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:22PM (7 children)
Jesus...I just got around to actually watching that 60 Minutes segment. What happened there, and the total political bullshit and lies that caused it, may be the scariest and most despicable thing I've seen in years (and that's saying something). The fact that the politics of the right could stoop to this level, and in the process do this much damage to research this critical (especially now) is mind boggling. If you haven't seen it you really really must.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:26PM (1 child)
I made the mistake of looking through the comments under the 60 Minutes video on Youtube. p.
Good lord, the number of people who actually think the "Deep State" is a real thing amazes me.
(Score: 5, Informative) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:37PM
Glad I didn't look. They're just parroting Trump BS like his brain dead tweets on this one...won't even waste the time quoting any. Why bother with any facts.
It would be one thing if that sort of thinking didn't endanger all of us. If it just killed those too fucking stupid to live, Trump would loose about 80% of his voter base.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:46PM (1 child)
I didn't see the video as it won't display without javascript but I did read the article.
Here is what we know... [virology.ws]
What happened when an insert was introduced to the original SARS in a lab? [nih.gov]
Was the Wuhan lab where concerns had been expressed about safety two years ago [foxnews.com] with a reported conspicuous absence of cell activity during October [nbcnews.com] doing gain of function research? Here's an Oct 19 gain of function paper from labs in Beijing. [nih.gov] There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to support de-funding isn't there?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @04:05PM
https://prod.vodvideo.cbsnews.com/cbsnews/vr/hls/2020/05/10/1736051779875/2062892_hls/master.m3u8 [cbsnews.com]
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:02AM (2 children)
Devil's advocate: cutting funding to a highly competent vaccine researcher or team is bad, of course, but what's stopping other countries from hiring this guy and having him come work for them? The world does not depend on the US for vaccines or pharmaceuticals in general; lots and lots of countries have these capabilities. Japan and Switzerland both come to mind immediately as places that have strong pharma industries, and a lot of medications are manufactured in various other nations, including India.
Honestly, if I were this guy, I'd be looking for some other country/foreign pharma company that wants to have me move there and do my research there, where I wouldn't have to worry about the political stupidity that's going on in America right now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @06:29AM (1 child)
Yea, that boggles my mind somewhat. i'm unfamiliar with the boundaries between federal and state government in the US. Can't various states fund the research if it is so important? Can't the UN fund it? Can't Canada step in and pick it up? Even Mexico can do that or any other country?
But all I see is bitching about the dumb ass dude in orange saying he'll cause the end of the world. If all these bitchers put in a dollar in kickstarter they'll get enough to fund the research? But I digress, bitchers wanna bitch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:14PM
"All those bitchers" probably favor putting a dollar in this little Kickstarter ripoff we call taxation. Then have experts review proposals and give those dollars to the most promising.
Yes, we could drop a dollar on random cures and let the free market sort it all out. But the Kickstarter ripoff might work out better.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:23PM (2 children)
Well, that's OK. The preliminary study on Remdesivir wasn't that encouraging anyway...and we don't know the details, and probably won't until a bit after the studies complete. Maybe it will end up looking good. Perhaps. So far it's just "Well, it's a bit expensive, but better than nothing.".
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:29PM (1 child)
Wow...not sure what point you're trying to make. That was just one example. EcoHealth whose funding was cut appears to be the primary source of research as to how these viruses come from nature in the first place, not to mention the search for a fucking cure.
There's NOTHING to downplay here at all.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:03PM
Pretty sure the issue is Trump doesn't want research into the origin of this virus as it would invariably contradict his "hunch."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Barenflimski on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:36PM (6 children)
So first its the Chinese created this thing and gave it to everyone else. Then, "The Chinese shared nothing with us! How could they not think of everyone but themselves first! How could they not share more information?!"
Now it's, "Don't share anything outside our country! Let's do them in! Make them pay! Why would we share?! Go it alone!"
To me it seems hypocritical and nonsensical. When I think a little more it seems that when you're so far up your own ass and forget that we are all human, it almost makes sense.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:45PM
MAGA, baby. MAGA Murca.
(Score: 0, Redundant) by exaeta on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:54PM (4 children)
Trump is corrupt. Sadly that Biden is just as bad, if not worse (his boogeyman is just Russia instead of China).
The problems in the US are created by US politicians. Why they wont own up to their own mistakes is beyond me. They are either insanely stupid or so utterly blinded by pride that they cannot admit their own foolishness. It is inevitable, because the people are stupid and vote morons into office. The people are stupid because public school teachers are horrible and lack the ability to teach common sense. That happens because dumb people appoint public school teachers. Unfortunately we have a cycle where dumb people appoint dumb teachers who produce more dumb people. I don't see how we can break out of it.. society will collapse at some point unless the internet serves to enlighten the populace and bypass the inept public school system. But that opportunity has failed, because people are tired of learning, so collapse the USA shall. Or perhaps not. The elites can continue to prosper while the commoners dig themselves into deeper and deeper holes from which I say the USA may never recover.
Thunk about it, we have not dug ourselves out of the hole of the war on drugs, the hole of war on trade, of student debt, etc. Why? because people are stupid. As much as we say that the war on drugs is bad, people don't force the politicians to dig us out that hole. The plebians have sat complicit as the US burries itself into its own grave, by their own representatives they vote for.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by fustakrakich on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:16AM
Why they wont own up to their own mistakes is beyond me.
Where's the incentive? Bring home some pork, be a good liar, and reelection is guaranteed. Winners don't make mistakes.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Wednesday May 13 2020, @10:28AM (1 child)
Public school teachers aren't appointed, and they've had next-to-no power over the curriculum for over 20 years now, so that much isn't exactly their fault. There's also that it's difficult to find talented people who work for low wages in a position where they get virtually no respect and spend their time dealing with kids who are undisciplined, emotionally unstable, struggling to keep up, borderline illiterate, or worse. That's not even taking into account that they're commonly stuck paying for basic classroom supplies out of their substandard wages. I don't know about you, but much as I enjoy teaching, I wouldn't want to work under those conditions.
There's actually two problems at work here. First is that most adults today are under a constant, substantial load of stress (due to a lack of job security, financial issues, poor diet, caring for relatives who are struggling, etc.) that saps their mental energy to the point that they don't have enough left to focus much on politics. Most also learned in their 20s that regardless of how good a politician sounds while campaigning, they're almost certain to be just as corrupt as the predecessor, and that voting for an alternative candidate accomplishes nothing unless the person already had a huge following among voters. What is the voter supposed to do other than vote for the least problematic candidate?
The economic stress that people are under also means that when choosing politicians, the question of which socioeconomic groups the politician at least claims to support becomes the most important criteria (e.g. "does this person seem more likely to favor policies that will make my or my family's life a bit easier, or more likely to favor policies that will place us at a disadvantage in order to make someone else's life easier?"), and other issues or even major problems with the candidate seem irrelevant. (Or as a parallel: when you're desperately hungry, obtaining any acceptably edible food takes precedence over picking the nicest restaurant or the one that pays its staff really well.) A lot would have to improve in our society for voters to get away from that mentality; I'm hoping that the virus clusterfuck will propel the US towards some of those changes, but I seriously doubt it will happen.
(Score: 2) by exaeta on Thursday May 14 2020, @01:46PM
The real fight of course, is fought before the primaries start. It's more about who you manage to get on the ballot box than who you vote for. You act as though better canididates don't exist. The truth is that they do, people are just too dumb to vote for them. Take bernie sanders for example, an intelligent, *honest* politician. And people STILL voted for Joe Biden because he came out in favor of special interest groups. People are stupid.
Teachers are appointed by *someone* if they aren't elected. It might be pricipal or school district supervisor or some drone in HR, but they are definitely not elected. The dumb person may not be a voter but they are the product of dumb people getting promotions and heretics that suggest change being removed from the system. An outside force has to come in to disrupt the system by forcibly installing new blood into positions of power. The political system must intervene to break up the stupidity in the education system but for some reason this is unpopular with voters.
The notion that politicians support different groups of people is nonsense. Divisionary politicts harms *everyone* and voters are stupid for not seeing through it. Harming one group harms everyone because society operates best as a well oiled machine. We have politicians throwing wrenches in the machine where they don't belong. And people are dumb for not seeing through it. Making excuses for stupidity like "stress" is counterproductive. We cannot justify it if we want to achieve a solution to the problem. People need to be aware that their own voting behavior is problematic.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @04:24PM
I'm just from Europe, but is it too late to pick that young dude from the democrats. He seemed like a calm and reasonable man compared to the rest and he doesn't look like he's going to fall over and die within a presidential term like the rest. I know nothing of the politics, it's just a human "vibe".
(Score: 5, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday May 12 2020, @09:45PM (1 child)
FBI used to come around to our "drone development" company about once a year. Mind you, we were doing little more than buying off the shelf parts from HobbyKing and other similarly "high tech" sources and slapping them together, but... we were a "technology of special concern".
We'd get a philosophy speech about how "the other side" thinks differently, and they're content to nibble away at a problem one little piece at a time, and that we should prevent that whenever possible. We were to report anybody "attempting to exfiltrate" technical information about our product. Nevermind that we were answering foreign RFQs with full technical descriptions of the product... those are legitimate customers, that's o.k. - we're just attempting to slow the flow of technical know how to the other side. It would literally be cheaper for a foreign spy to request a quote from the company than for them to send someone in person to talk with ("spy on") us.
Meanwhile Iran is kicking our asses in autonomous drone development because: not only have they always had an open commercial marketplace for all manner of drone products, they also sponsor big competitions with big prizes encouraging their universities and industries to advance. Meanwhile, commercial drone usage in the U.S. has been about as encouraged as medical marijuana sales, maybe even less so today.
The really amusing part was when they sent an "undercover agent" to test our compliance with the reporting process. Some old dude in a pink polo shirt walking a dog on the 2nd floor of our building (no grass outside) hangs around the door and starts dropping heavy questions about the technical specs of the product - a product that you wouldn't even know we make by the outward appearance of the entrance. And he's doing this 3 days after the briefing... I feel so much safer knowing these crack G men are on the job, keeping our valuable secrets and not so valuable tech know how safely hidden from the bad guys - don't you?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @04:25PM
It's true... kind of. "They" don't think differently. They think exactly the same as "we" do. Take a big problem, solve it one piece at a time. You don't build a trans-american railroad in one night.
Of course it's easy to disagree with the goal of keeping IP secret (or agree with it), but assuming you do want to keep IP secret, their comment is very true and applicable.
And you still remember this story to this day.
The goal of this "test" was as much education and to give it salience as anything. How many "training sessions" of new tools and techniques have you been in that you never applied, and forgot a month later? (I know I've lost count of the "next cool new thing" I've forgotten.)
It sounds to me that this test did a lot of good.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:08PM (4 children)
It's amazing how we claim that China doesn't want to share any info with us (they did share sequencing info) yet it's OK for us to openly not want to share information with them.
We want other countries to do everything they can to help us out when we need help but we don't want to help them out when they need help. And we're even open about it.
It also amazes me how it's the politicians that don't want to share information. The researchers and scientists want to share info but the politicians and cartels (ie: IP cartels) want to hoard all of the information that the scientists and researchers generate for themselves through patents, never-ending copy'rights' and trade secrets.
and I'm sick and tired of everyone saying "China steals our IP".
What does the U.S. really produce besides useless patents now a day.
OK, we have Micron and Intel producing semiconductors (and Intel is behind) but companies like AMD get their semiconductors from other countries (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company and Samsung). They are at the cutting edge. The U.S. is behind. Partly because we keep on worrying about litigation instead of innovation.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:30PM
Head in the sand doesn't help. Although if you really believe the U.S. produces nothing of value, China can and will steal IP from other countries too.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:10AM (1 child)
OK, we have Micron and Intel producing semiconductors (and Intel is behind) but companies like AMD get their semiconductors from other countries (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company and Samsung). They are at the cutting edge. The U.S. is behind.
This isn't quite true. TSMC does not know how to design and construct a cutting-edge CPU, any more than some PCB factory in China knows how to make an iPhone. The design and engineering of AMD CPUs is done by AMD, not TSMC; the manufacturing is outsourced to TSMC. The manufacturing of course is not a trivial matter at all, especially at today's process nodes, but neither is the engineering of the RTL and doing the mask design. The same goes for a bunch of other American companies: Qualcomm also designs CPUs (Snapdragons), as does Apple, but of course they partner with someone else to manufacture them, just like Apple partners with Foxconn to do the final assembly of their iPhones. Basically, you're focusing entirely on the manufacturing and completely ignoring the design and engineering of these things.
Of course, a lot of these companies are pretty global and have engineering centers in other countries (AMD used to have one in Germany, but I think they closed it), so this doesn't mean all the engineering is staying here, but it's not like all this work is being done in east Asia. Long-term, however, it doesn't look that great. We've hung onto a lot of this stuff because we have a critical mass of engineering talent, which includes a lot of people who came to the US from elsewhere to get an education and work in this field. America is becoming very unfriendly to these immigrants now, while other places become more desirable places to live, so this is changing.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:57PM
If that were really true it should be companies like Intel that are ahead of the curve. Companies that manufacturer their products in the U.S. No, it's companies like Samsung and TSMC that are ahead of the curve. The U.S. just hoards a bunch of useless patents and uses those to claim that we are ahead of the curve when we're not.
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:31PM
But they do! The used time travel (which they'll steal from the US in the future) to travel ahead in time and steal advanced US 5G technology and then bring it to market before the US companies they stole it from did. That's how clever they are.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @10:13PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance [wikipedia.org]
Part of the problem is Trump's inability to coexist with others whose self-assurance is as strong or stronger than his.
It's like that scene from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy, where Zaphod Beeblebrox says, "If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now."
Beeblebrox was joking. Trump isn't joking. If you challenge his sense of superiority ... you're fired.
This attitude has percolated all the way down throughout his appointees, like someone had dumped a spoonful of poison into the coffee grounds before giving it a stir, adding water, and plugging the pot in, to make a fresh pot of coffee.
This attitude has driven every single person with a scrap of decency or common sense out of the administration, leaving the government in the hands of the mediocre.
It's a strange mix of Gresham's Law, and Lord of the Rings - and, God help us, we have elected Smeagol as our leader.
TL;DR: These people are not sane.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:16PM (4 children)
What would help scientific progress is sharing information as freely as humanly possible. That way, there's less duplication of effort, in both fewer attempts at a promising-but-ultimately-unsuccessful approach, and more insight as someone notices an aspect of someone else's results that the someone else missed. Scientists understand this with Covid-19 as much as anything else, which is why there's tons of sharing unpublished results and often lots of cooperation between labs.
Unfortunately, that kind of thing is no good if your goal is not to progress the science, but to be the person who gets rich from the technology that results from that science. In that case, you want to be as secretive as possible about what you're doing, while freely grabbing everything you can from everyone else. Sure, that will make everyone else's research less efficient, and you getting rich will come at the expense of millions of other people plus whoever's work you used, but you'll be rich, and isn't that the most important thing?
The current administration's response to Covid-19 is characterized by having a goal of "Y'all need Covid-19 treatments / vaccines, and I'm the only person who has it. Bow before me!" And that simply is the wrong approach to fixing the problem.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by HiThere on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:32PM
Yes, but there's more to it that that. It's not just a few people, it's a part of the system design.
Drug discovery is costly. Really costly. Somehow it has to be paid for. If a privately owned organization is doing the discovery, the owner needs to be paid for the discoveries in order to stay in business. Those that are more successful at getting paid are more likely to stay in business, so the labs are increasingly run by those increasingly devoted to being paid. Do notice that the value of the items produced has dropped out of the equation.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday May 13 2020, @12:53AM (2 children)
There is also a strategic aspect. Say the USA is the only country with a coronavirus vaccine or cure. They can deny it to any country that doesn't bow down to them. And send infected people to them who do business as usual.
Not to mention what happens it the head politician needs the support of the antivaxxers.
-- hendrik
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:54AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:05PM
Notice that in my characterization of the desired endgame, nationality had nothing to do with it. People who think this way would get along quite well with General Zod ... at least until there were questions about which of them would kneel before the other.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12 2020, @11:54PM (3 children)
Don't worry, there is no actual research in the US. They are too busy praying to their imaginary sky daddy, while "faith leaders" are demanding to get back to the normal business of raping children.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:14AM (2 children)
Don't be hyperbolic. There's still a lot of actual research in the US, and not everyone is as you describe. However, a large chunk of the population is indeed intent on following their "faith leaders" instead of competent experts, and have been winning a lot at the polls, and this has made doing research in the US less and less attractive.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:46PM (1 child)
That's one good thing about China, while it's got its fair share of problems (insert giant shopping list here), it's also run by technocrats who know, and can sort out, what needs to be done in a crisis. Maybe countries should have a way of swapping out the politicians for effective leaders when there's a crisis. My favourite example of this is Bulgaria, a not-very-functional country (it has the worst corruption in the EU) with an even less functional medical system. When this hit, they put a military medical guy with an unpronouncable name in charge and he ran things using Cold War-era bioweapons protocols. Result: About 90 dead, while modern, wealthy countries in Europe with good medical systems have tens of thousands dead.
OK, had to Google the name, it's "Major General Professor Doctor Ventsislav Mutafchiyski". You just know someone like that will get shit done.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:25PM
> You just know someone like that will get shit done.
Sure, as long as the solution is Cold War era population control, that kind of tool will hit the nail on the head. Oh you have a virus? Sounds like a little authoritarian crackdown is just what you need. What's that? Student protests? I know just the thing.
But you're right about corruption. Corrupt as fuck and authoritarion too - it's almost like the two go together aint' it?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by srobert on Wednesday May 13 2020, @01:44PM (2 children)
If there was ever a time for an open source approach to a problem, this is it. There should be no "intellectual property" involved in research for a cure, treatment, or vaccine for COVID-19. If you're working for one of these companies, in any country, and you've got some information of what to do to treat it, that info wants to be free!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 13 2020, @02:30PM (1 child)
Let's see you be so generous with YOUR million dollar ideas, hm?
Sure - scientists work for decades to solve problems. The second something works, someone in a suit comes in and takes it. Could be commercial interests or The People's Republic. Makes no difference to the scientists - *your* cool idea now belongs to invisible magic of capitalism or the heroic effort of the nation. Salute to the boss.
(Score: 2) by srobert on Wednesday May 13 2020, @04:46PM
Yes, that's what they do. But they have an incentive not to if we get them to wise up. Those guys in the suits and their families can be killed by this virus as long as the virus can find a way to survive and mutate. If we make treatment unaffordable, the virus and its descendants will spread throughout the human population and eventually come back to the suits. The most profitable choice for the suits is the same as for everyone else, Eradicate the Disease.