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posted by martyb on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:37AM   Printer-friendly
from the ...we'll-make-it-up-in-volume dept.

Doordash and Pizza Arbitrage:

In March 2019 a good friend who owns a few pizza restaurants messaged me [...]. For over a decade, he resisted adding delivery as an option for his restaurants. He felt it would detract from focusing on the dine-in experience and result in trying to compete with Domino's.

But he had suddenly started getting customers calling in with complaints about their deliveries.

Customers called in saying their pizza was delivered cold. Or the wrong pizza was delivered and they wanted a new pizza.

[...] He realized that a delivery option had mysteriously appeared on their company's Google Listing. The delivery option was created by Doordash.

[...] Doordash was causing him real problems. The most common was, Doordash delivery drivers didn't have the proper bags for pizza so it inevitably would arrive cold. It led to his employees wasting time responding to complaints and even some bad Yelp reviews.

But he brought up another problem - the prices were off. He was frustrated that customers were seeing incorrectly low prices. A pizza that he charged $24 for was listed as $16 by Doordash.

[...] He called in and placed an order for 10 pizzas to a friend's house and charged $160 to his personal credit card. A Doordash call center then called into his restaurant and put in the order for those 10 pizzas. A Doordash driver showed up with a credit card and paid $240 for the pizzas.

We went over the actual costs. Each pizza cost him approximately $7 ($6.50 in ingredients, $0.50 for the box). So if he paid $160 out of pocket plus $70 in expenses to net $240 from Doordash, he just made $10 in pure arbitrage profit. For all that trouble, it wasn't really worth it, but that first experiment did work.

[...] But we did realize, if you removed the food costs this could get more interesting.

[...] The order was put in for another 10 pizzas. But this time, he just put in the dough with no toppings (he indicated at the time dough was essentially costless at that scale, though pandemic baking may have changed things).

[...] Note 1: We found out afterward that was all the result of a "demand test" by Doordash. They have a test period where they scrape the restaurant's website and don't charge any fees to anyone, so they can ideally go to the restaurant with positive order data to then get the restaurant signed onto the platform. If we had to pay a customer fee on the order, it would've further cut into our arbitrage profits (though maybe we could've incorporated DashPass as part of the calculation).


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  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:18AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:18AM (#996169)

    > ... They have a test period where they scrape the restaurant's website and don't charge any fees to anyone...

    Not a restaurant owner, but if I was I'd add some small print to my website, something about not accepting orders except from the people that will take delivery.

    Besides, what if I already had a successful delivery business? I sure wouldn't want DoorDash (or any other 3rd party) messing with my reputation. There is a high chance that any 3rd party will not deliver the experience that I design for my customers.

    Damn this rent-seeking behavior!

    • (Score: 2) by NickM on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:34AM (1 child)

      by NickM (2867) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:34AM (#996173) Journal
      They sold at lost, as far as rent seeking goes, that seems to be a backward proposition. Now, I understand that those pizza sold at a lost have the potential to be detrimental to the businesses reputation but he could have reparations just by ordering more and more pizza for his whole neighborhood!
      --
      I a master of typographic, grammatical and miscellaneous errors !
      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Bot on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:39AM

        by Bot (3902) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:39AM (#996184) Journal

        Barbarians pls. In proper pizzaland, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE MONETARY REPARATION FOR THE TRAUMA OF A COLD PIZZA. Just meet at dawn with your weapons of choice and a witness.

        --
        Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:48AM (7 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:48AM (#996175) Journal

      Damn this rent-seeking behavior!

      That's not rent-seeking. The pizza restaurant was receiving orders and the customer was receiving ordered food that they would otherwise need to go to the restaurant to pick up. So other parties received value from this behavior. Rent seeking is when one can interfere in such activity for profit without delivering anything of value to anyone.

      Using this example, if suddenly this pizza restaurant was forced to use Doordash to sell all their food (with nothing new added - so no deliveries, just having Doordash fondle the money before it goes to the bank), that would be rent seeking since Doordash added nothing to the transaction.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:40AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:40AM (#996185)

        In this case you are correct because doordash apparently screwed up, but doordash has a habit of getting their own telephone number in an internet listing for the restaurant and then telling restaurants if they want the order they have to take it at a discount.

        If restaurant refuses they have a pissed off customer that may not even realize what happened. Customer may think resteraunt blew them off leading to poor reviews.

        Thing is, the true cost of a delivery by doordash is probably in the $10 per order range factoring in driver fees, infrastructure and profit. That is fixed regardless of $20 or $100 order... Not sure about others, but I don't want to pay that kind of markup.

        The average pizza place probably can do more efficient delivery and some restaurants may not want delivery for whatever reason. Other restaurants may welcome doordash but only if a contract is in place beforehand.

         

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:21AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:21AM (#996221) Journal

          In this case you are correct because doordash apparently screwed up, but doordash has a habit of getting their own telephone number in an internet listing for the restaurant and then telling restaurants if they want the order they have to take it at a discount.

          Ok, that I can see. Exploiting a search engine mechanic to insert yourself between customer and restaurant.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:57AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:57AM (#996270)

          > In this case you are correct because doordash apparently screwed up

          I don't think DoorDash screwed up (by their lights) at all. By initial discounting DD is using a monopolist tactic that is as old as the hills. As soon as other delivery options have been eliminated (because DD has deep VC pockets to outlast any attempt by existing suppliers to match low prices) then they can a) start gouging on the delivery price and b) lean on the pizzeria for price cuts.

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @12:02PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @12:02PM (#996291)

            At least somebody here understands how capitalism works.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @10:29PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @10:29PM (#997125)

            Isn't it illegal to sell something below marginal cost for the purpose of driving out competition and then raising your prices?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:14AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:14AM (#996217)

        That's not rent-seeking.

        True. It is khallow class extortion. Price-gouging that is illegal in almost all pizza producing states. Khallow should be arrested for even contemplating such illegal actions.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @12:36AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @12:36AM (#996635)

          Haven't you heard? Justice is just another fiction sold by the aristocracy to keep people in line. It appears quite solid until you bump up against the 1% of cases.

          That is why they are tearing democracy apart, with the advent of the internet they can no longer keep information siloed, and that will lead to actual *gasp* reforms! Possibly even a real justice system. Can't have that now, not in this world of pyramids.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:02AM (45 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:02AM (#996176)

    New York-style large floppy crust pepperoni-and-mushroom with sauce and olive oil dripping down the slice is the best American pizza.

    Period.

    "California-style" garlic chicken pizza deserves an honorable mention - it's like pizza with a (right proper) tinge of Asian flavor.

    Chicago "deep-dish pizza" is true utter garbage. Shame on Chicago Italians - what would your grandma think? Disgrace.

    Ok, carry on.

    • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:45AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:45AM (#996186)

      Oh, some snowflake Chicago guido got his "feelings" hurt, eh?!

      You should be shamed of yoself. Ask your buddy Vinny.

      Vinny: Guido, you are a disgrace.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:59AM (38 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:59AM (#996194)

      American pizza

      Haha. You yanks should get a passport and experience 'pizza' in other countries.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:08AM (26 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:08AM (#996197)

        I likely have more entry/exit stamps in my passport than you. If you have a pizza you think is superior, name it.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by gtomorrow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:51AM (22 children)

          by gtomorrow (2230) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:51AM (#996208)

          Oh, this is just too easy.

          How about pizza in Naples? And I mean just about anywhere in Naples. I'm not sure but I believe that if you order it Hawaiian-style, local ordinance demands they shoot to kill.

          That said, NY pizza is the best pizza inside of North America...but it's been, unfortunately, years since I could last confirm that.

          Next topic: how gumbo (or a po' boy sandwich) anywhere else in the world outside of Louisiana is "good."

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Mykl on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:16AM (3 children)

            by Mykl (1112) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:16AM (#996219)

            Localisation really is a thing.

            As an Australian pizza lover (particularly the "Aussie" pizza - ham, cheese, sauce and an egg on top), I was really looking forward to experiencing true Italian pizza when I visited there years ago. To my bitter disappointment, I discovered that I hate the taste of Prosciutto, which is used on almost every Italian style pizza - no ham to be seen anywhere.

            I was so sad I had to drown my sorrows in Pasta and Gelato for 2 weeks.

            • (Score: 4, Funny) by gtomorrow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:36AM

              by gtomorrow (2230) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:36AM (#996236)

              [comic relief]
              The one universal constant, proven once again:

              There's no accounting for taste.

              In your defense, islander, prosciutto crudo cooked on a pizza in my—and not only my—opinion becomes too dry and salty. Prosciutto crudo is meant to be eaten as is, in a panino or accompanied by cantaloupe slices, where the buttery flavor and texture is to be fully appreciated. Then again, you could have ordered a pizza with prosciutto cotto which is what you'd normally call "ham".

              I do remember an (American) ex-girlfriend, when she saw prosciutto crudo for the very first time, said "...I'm not gonna eat that!" See universal constant.

              I'll forgive that fact that your island culture is derived from centuries of British settlers left to develop on its own (you share that aspect with the United States). And everyone knows that in hell, who are the cooks?

              I KID I KID!

              [/comic relief]

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:26PM (1 child)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:26PM (#996551) Homepage
              > Prosciutto, which is used on almost every Italian style pizza - no ham to be seen anywhere.

              How can there be prosciutto on almost every italian pizza, but no ham to be seen anywhere, given that prosciutto is a ham?!??!
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 3, Touché) by Mykl on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:01PM

                by Mykl (1112) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:01PM (#996613)

                Ah, the only thing I like better than an engaging response is one that points out a technical flaw in my wording!

                Yes, you are technically correct (which is the best type of correct!) - prosciutto is a type of ham. I prefer much milder ham (such as the type normally found in sandwiches) on my pizza. Like this [tripadvisor.com]

          • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:20AM (12 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:20AM (#996220)

            Lol foreigners

            America (texas) and Japan routinely win in the best scotch category
            America (california) beats france and italy at wine
            America beats in cheese competitions
            America wins in vodka competitions
            America beats germany in beer competitions

            Have we won in pizza? I suppose you might find a slice here and there that meets the italian standard currently, but soon this will be ours as well.

            Everything anyone else can do, we can do bigger, better, and cheaper. RIP the hallow husk that was Europe, we took all your best and brightest and all you have now is cucks and memories.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:12AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:12AM (#996227)

              You clearly manage to beat the rest of the world in arrogance and over-the-top competitiveness.

            • (Score: 5, Funny) by kazzie on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:32AM (1 child)

              by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:32AM (#996234)

              And in baseball, America wins the World Series virtually every year!

              • (Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:04PM

                by sonamchauhan (6546) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:04PM (#996583)

                Not to mention winning in the TV ratings... RATINGS!!!!!

                And Oscar, Grammy and Emmy awards.

            • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:53AM (4 children)

              by gtomorrow (2230) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:53AM (#996240)

              You're so funny! But instead of modding you "funny"...

              Citations needed, and how! Otherwise, stand in line to be called out...present waiting times: ~3 hours.

              Maybe in competitions held solely in the United States your affirmations hold true.

              • In the United States you have one domestic cheese in 13 different colors and 47 different names, discounting the garbage sold as "cheese product".
              • While not Thunderbird or MD20/20, California wines can't hold a candle to even the cheapest Italian wines.
              • And while I personally am not particular for German beers, I can't believe you're saying American beer (I don't care if you're talking microbrewery or not) beats out any Anglo-Saxon/Nordic product. Then again, I can't see you snickering while posting, so I have to assume you're serious...?

              Are you gonna tell us next that the United States won the World Cup too? You are so funny!

              • (Score: 2) by Kitsune008 on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:14PM (1 child)

                by Kitsune008 (9054) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:14PM (#996438)

                Well, I'm not trying to defend the deluded AC, but even you have to admit we are winning the coronavirus competition.
                More cases confirmed, and more deaths, than any other country.

                Yeah Trump, we ARE tired of your style of winning.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:55PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:55PM (#996610)

                LMFAO. You're just ignorant. Michigan produces the best beer in the world, hands down. California wine is overrated, but it's 1/2 the price and nearly as good. And... You know nothing about craft cheese so let's not even go there (no, I didn't mean Kraft).

                • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Wednesday May 20 2020, @01:53PM

                  by gtomorrow (2230) on Wednesday May 20 2020, @01:53PM (#996877)

                  Yeah, anonymous coward, just as I thought. I ask for citations and you just make more things up and purport them as "facts" peppered with insults.

                  Yawn...we're so done here.

            • (Score: 4, Funny) by FatPhil on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:29PM (2 children)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:29PM (#996553) Homepage
              > America beats in cheese competitions

              Is it win in grammer competings?
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Thursday May 21 2020, @12:59AM (1 child)

                by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday May 21 2020, @12:59AM (#997175)

                There's nothing wrong when taken in context, which implicitly supplies the missing object. Thus:

                America beats [others] in cheese competitions.

                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 21 2020, @07:44AM

                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday May 21 2020, @07:44AM (#997312) Homepage
                  Oh, I could work out what he was trying to say, I was asking a genuine question, which I notice you have failed to answer.
                  --
                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:11AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:11AM (#996273)

            > How about pizza in Naples?

            Certainly wasn't what I was expecting. Very thin, hardly any toppings -- sort of a "pizza lite" or cheese on a cracker, relative to a deep dish that is actually nourishing (as well as yummy). We were in Naples several days, with Italian hosts (on business) and were generally disappointed with the food. An expensive steak was tough like shoe leather--perhaps the local Dons siphon off all the filet mignon? However, the entertainment at dinner (outdoors) was great -- little birds and cats circulating through the restaurant were having a great time!

            The walk up to Vesuvius pretty well set the stage for the rest of our visit--bait & switch everywhere. One parks at the end of the access road part-way up the volcano and walks up a trail. With no prior warning, near the top, the trail turns a blind corner and that is where you have to pay admission to get to the top where you can look down into the volcano. By then of course you have already invested a lot of effort in climbing, so you grudgingly pay for what certainly appeared to be a public/free park. In reality the view isn't all that exciting (unless you are a volcanologist?)

            • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:33PM (1 child)

              by gtomorrow (2230) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:33PM (#996329)

              Hahahahaha! Turista. Welcome to Napoli! They can see you comin' a kilometer away!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @01:59AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @01:59AM (#996662)

                Yep, the Napolis won alright. Not going back and not recommending anyone else bother to visit Naples either.

          • (Score: 2) by OrugTor on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:01PM (1 child)

            by OrugTor (5147) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:01PM (#996390)

            The best pizza I had was in Venice. It was slightly better than any other pizza. No matter how good Napolitan pizza, I would not risk my life in Napolitan traffic to get one.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @02:07AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @02:07AM (#996666)

              Interesting, I had a great time in Naples traffic. From our 4th floor hotel room the square outside looked kind of like concrete -- large gravel (buses & trucks), smaller gravel (cars) and sand filling in the little gaps (mopeds). Sort of a reverse car analogy...?

              Driving in Naples was FUN (notice I didn't say "fast"). We rented a tiny Matiz (800cc 3-cylinder) hatch that was a good fit for narrow roads. If a hole opened up, everyone went for it (at low speed), and the winner got to move. It's all about situational awareness, reflexes and calculated aggression. I didn't take any of this personally and I don't think any one else did either--the competition was very good natured with smiles and hand waves all around. Almost communal, we were all stuck in the same jam together.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:15AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:15AM (#996218)

          To be fair to NY, their Ruben is the best but only in like 1 or 2 places. The Ruben in NYNY, Las Vegas is better than most too.

        • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:14AM (1 child)

          by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:14AM (#996246)

          Outside of Naples, Italy, try Sao Paulo, Brazil. Some really, really good pizza to be found there.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:55AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:55AM (#996290)

            Sicilians can do their version of pizza pretty well, and sardinian pizzas with sardinian cheese is unorthodox too but I can recommend it. Then, if you enter the almost true pizza, it all becomes a matter of the quality of the ingredients, the world champion a couple years ago was from a place near the border with slovenia.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:19AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:19AM (#996248)

        American pizza

        Haha. You yanks should get a passport and experience 'pizza' in other countries.

        Indeed, I heartily recommend experiencing the Scottish take at least once...deep fried (batter optional..)

        (There is a time and place for large, greasy, deep fried pizza, just be thankful that most of you will hopefully never, ever be in that time or place and have to eat one..oh, and it pains me to say this as a West Coaster, but they do them better on the East Coast...but hey, those buggers can't make Pakora to save themselves, so universal balance is maintained...)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:07PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:07PM (#996311)

          Do you recommend the hagus pizza?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:00PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:00PM (#996365)

            *haggis you dolt

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:51PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:51PM (#996424)

              Can't say, I've been a vegetarian since before things like haggis pizza and pakora came into being. I'd imagine that it would be sufficiently weird and unique enough tasting to be on any carnivore's list of 'foods to try at least once'.

              Oh, and before anyone mentions it, 'vegetarian haggis' is both an oxymoron and a prime abomination unto Nuggan..

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:38AM (3 children)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:38AM (#996260) Journal

        Oh, we did that, in Italy itself, in the city of Cortina. It was a negative experience we have never forgotten. Thought we were going to get genuine Italian pizza. But the "cheese" pizza had 2 small strands of cheese on top. Rest of the surface was exposed tomato sauce. Soon as the waiter put the pizza in front of us, he ran away. Never saw him again.

        Why that happened, I still don't know. Was there a shortage of cheese? Or could it be that what we received was customary? I suspect the restaurant had us pegged as tourists and thought they could get away with ripping us off. Well, they did get away with it. We decided not to bother fighting the restaurant over it. Heck, maybe the local police would escort us from the premises if we dared to complain even in the most gentle and civil manner. If they were petty enough to cheat us of a decent amount of cheese, who knows what else they might do. Could they have Mafia connections? Whatever, we were foreigners and it just didn't seem prudent to make a fuss over a pizza. We sampled the "cheese" pizza. It was horrible, and we left it behind, uneaten, when we paid and got out of there.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @12:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @12:03PM (#996292)

          Yeah but if you take one guy from cortina and one neapolitan they don't even understand each others. In the mountain go for the similarly named but totally unrelated pizzoccheri (in valtellina), the canederli, polenta, cheese, meat, liquors. All the rest is transported there, it's just not worth the time, even if in sudtirol I ate a pretty good almost-pizza.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:10PM (#996370)

          To be fair, you ordered a pizza in a ski resort town in Northern Italy. They are not particularly known for their pizza. You'd likely want to order some local alpine cuisine when in Venuto -- they has some amazing sausages and other cured meats (including things like venison). Why you'd order a pizza there, I have no idea. It's almost the equivalent of going to an Indian restaurant in the U.S. and ordering eggrolls. Sure, it might be on the menu, but is that really the best choice given where you are?

          Not to excuse bad service or bad food. But unless you were at a restaurant specifically advertising Southern Italian cuisine, you were likely branding yourself as a tourist with your order.

          In any case, don't judge an entire country's cuisine by one odd experience.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:40PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:40PM (#996562) Homepage
          I've heard from resident locals that in many tourist-focussed parts of Italy, they serve pizzas to the US tastes, rather than more traditional italian ones. Which pisses off everyone from every country apart from the US, including the locals, and pisses a fair proportion of those from the US too (whom I understand don't get "pissed off", but "pissed" instead).
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:57PM (2 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:57PM (#996462) Journal

        You yanks should get a passport and experience 'pizza' in other countries.

        No thanks.

        I'll stick to REAL American foods:
        * Pizza
        * Tacos
        * General Tso's Chicken

        But not Sushi, which is one of the worst American inventions ever.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:44PM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday May 19 2020, @09:44PM (#996567) Homepage
          My understanding is that TexMex is properly American, as in the states, and clearly distinct from Mexican food. We do have both Mexican and TexMex restaurants locally, and it's true there, but here there isn't there there, so I don't really know for sure.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 20 2020, @05:50PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 20 2020, @05:50PM (#997000) Journal

            But . . . also OTHER American foods like General Tso's Chicken, and Pizza. I would mention Shusi, but I don't like seafood.

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:25PM

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:25PM (#996324) Journal

      As a native NYC-er who spent the first 27 years of her life there and whose first memory involves the (sadly long since gone) Al Dente pizzeria on Main Street in Flushing...there is nothing wrong with Chicago pizza. Not my first choice but it's still delicious in its own way. Can't we all just get along?

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:15PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:15PM (#996348) Homepage

      "California-Style" anything is complete and utter shite. Only a Californian can ruin not only one but two classic items, pizza and barbecue sauce, in thinking that putting barbecue sauce on a pizza is a good idea.

      And only a Californian can justify it being a "unique work of art" rather than the desperate mashing together of unrelated gobshite most associated with toothless hillbillies and Russian peasantry. Californians are the same assholes that stuff french-fries in a burrito and lend their namesake to that abomination as well. Next we'll have "Ramen California-Style" which will be a brick of Maruchan noodles topped with cheddar cheese and hot sauce, and will sell for $15 a bowl.

    • (Score: 2) by OrugTor on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:57PM (2 children)

      by OrugTor (5147) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:57PM (#996389)

      Finally, Pizza Wars. Such a refreshing change from systemd.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:13PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:13PM (#996410)

        You mean you haven't yet heard about the proposed pizzad?

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:58PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:58PM (#996463) Journal

        The Night of SystemD! Now available on VHS!

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:26AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:26AM (#996179)

    A lot of these restaurants actively don't want delivery service, and it seems like Doordash and Google are misrepresenting the service, then dumping the complaints on the original business. It's certainly unethical - no surprise from "always be evil" Google - and while I'm not sure which law is being broken, it seems like there ought to be something. Misrepresenting your service as being from another company so you can dump your problems on them seems like it would fall under some kind of fraud statute.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:38AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @05:38AM (#996181)

      They could sue, with the Yelp complaints forming a basis of evidence to prove their reputation had been damaged

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:39PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:39PM (#996384)

        Certainly they could sue, and if the courts in the USA were worth anything then they would win. But last I checked fraud and extortion were still felonies, so if the US legal system was worth anything then DoorDash executives would be looking at prison time.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:01PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:01PM (#996465) Journal

          But harming DoorDash would be anti-business! We can't have that!

          (said with a straight face, totally unaware of the irony.)

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:39AM

    by gtomorrow (2230) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:39AM (#996204)

    Why does Milo Minderbinder come to mind?

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by istartedi on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:36AM

    by istartedi (123) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:36AM (#996224) Journal

    Sure, a little pizza arbitrage is no problem. How about some pizza futures? Derivatives contracts? Next thing you know, there's a bubble in the market, or somebody forgets to close out their position and a semi-truck full of hot pies shows up at the principal's house, which you somehow managed to convince the exchange was an acceptable warehouse for delivery. At least the onion topping is safe from all this. [wikipedia.org]. Sometimes, we actually learn and apply lessons from financial fiascoes. Sometimes we don't.

    Interesting fact: The original Ponzi scheme (yes, there was a guy named Ponzi) started out as a legitimate arbitrage. Since arbitrage tends to be fleeting, Ponzi started looking for a way to keep the party going, and that's where the trouble started.

    --
    Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:10PM (9 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @01:10PM (#996315)

    When John D Rockafeller wanted to move into a market that had competing oil companies, he'd sell well below cost until his competitors were out of business, buy up their remains, and now that the customers had no choice he'd return his prices to much higher than cost.

    Why would Doordash be doing this? To prevent the restaurants from cutting into their business by setting up their own delivery system. They'll do this so long as the restaurant hasn't signed a contract with them that specifically outlaws doing so.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:23PM (3 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:23PM (#996351) Homepage

      Modern industry hates having employees nowadays. They will do whatever they can make the problem of people somebody else's problem, as in using temp agencies/external contractors, migrant labor that won't complain, and whatever else they can do to foist blame on somebody else.

      One of the conspiracy theories I think is going on with this COVID shutdown is that industry can orchestrate a massive salary reset, they can get rid of higher-paid employees and have the government foot the bill to prevent unemployment chimpouts, then hire cheapies as soon as it is socially acceptable to do so and without running afoul of existing employment law.

      Of course, that's going to be hugely unpopular with citizens and will direct even more anger towards migrants, but corporations and politicians don't look past the next quarter anymore. And in my opinion, the more popular anger directed towards migrants, the better.

      • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:41PM (1 child)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @02:41PM (#996358)

        > One of the conspiracy theories I think is going on with this COVID shutdown

        I am impressed by your rapid transfer from "conspiracy theory" to "absolute truth".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:27PM (#996376)

        One of the conspiracy theories I think is going on with this COVID shutdown is that industry can orchestrate a massive salary reset, they can get rid of higher-paid employees and have the government foot the bill to prevent unemployment chimpouts, then hire cheapies as soon as it is socially acceptable to do so and without running afoul of existing employment law.

        Yeah, especially in America, where employees work for "tips" so they don't even get minimum wage.

        Please think a little longer before believing bullshit. The higher-paid employees are the ones that can work from home.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:41PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @03:41PM (#996385)

      Antitrust laws were created to put a stop to that. It sounds to me like DoorDash should get the same treatment.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:40PM (1 child)

        by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @04:40PM (#996399)

        They were, but they've been steadily less and less enforced. For instance, based on the Sherman Act, Google should probably not exist.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @10:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @10:37PM (#997128)

          Everyone complains about Google but I don't really see what they are doing that's so illegal. Competition is just a click away and just because Google is dominant because of their superior product is no reason to destroy them.

    • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:13AM (1 child)

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:13AM (#997182)

      You're a victim of revisionist historians and other leftist ideologues. Rockefeller was more efficient in producing oil, for instance by shipping crude in rail tank cars instead of barrels. Can you imagine how ridiculously stupid shipping oil in barrels is? One barrel holding enough crude to fill up the tanks of 3 automobiles is an unfunny joke, yet the owners of oil wells who shipped by barrel thought Rockefeller was doing something evil by acting more wisely than they did.

      Petroleum is a nationwide and worldwide market, there was no local market that Rockefeller could "move into".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:35PM (#998973)

        Not so. Plenty of companies shipped oil via train, this was not a Standard Oil innovation. The monopolistic practices of Standard Oil were all very well documented at the time by Ida Tarbell, The History of the Standard Oil Company, readily available on the Internet and in your local public library.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bradley13 on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:49PM (4 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @06:49PM (#996458) Homepage Journal

    Doordash reportedly lost an insane $450 million off $900 million in revenue in 2019

    Companies like this cannot go out of business soon enough. While they will go out of business, the longer they linger, the more carnage they will leave in their wake.

    The thing that I find shocking is how utterly stupid the investors are. They think that something like DoorDash is a technical company. They think that they can corner a market and win big with "massive multiplication". But it isn't and they can't. The techie get-insanely-rich dreams are based on the idea that you provide a purely technical solution, and when your customers multiply by 100, you only have to increase your server capacity a bit. Classic example: Google.

    As soon as you involve human labor, this dream fails.

    When you need human labor to service a customer, 100 times as many customers require 100 times the labor. There is no "massive multiplication". The "gig" economy is an attempt to cheat, to put all the risk onto the employees, while keeping the profits for the company. Regulators are catching on to this game, and this cheating won't last much longer. But even with the gig economy - if your company is making this kind of losses ($450 million loss on $900 million revenue), then your company is never going to make a profit. Do Silicon Valley investors have so much cash that they can afford to throw it away like this? Apparently...

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by meustrus on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:02PM (2 children)

      by meustrus (4961) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:02PM (#996466)

      I'm pretty sure DoorDash and every other car-based tech company is just trying to build the infrastructure and customer base to be in the right position when self-driving cars finally work.

      The VCs don't know when it will happen, but they believe it will. It's just a matter of time. If they have an ownership stake in the company that has the right app and the right brand recognition, the "massive multiplication" will suddenly be a reality and they will be billionaires.

      Until then, they just have to keep the loss leader afloat. The big boys will make their business plan work eventually.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:26PM (1 child)

        by sonamchauhan (6546) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 19 2020, @10:26PM (#996594)

        Not at this burn rate, they're not. Half a bil a year! The economy can sustain only that many Ubernicorns.

        Also, a future automated economy should also be a software agent / API-enabled economy. Your agent won't care that much for your DoorDash and Amazon order history. It will work for you, without bias to then-present big boys, their ad spend, or their apps on your phone.

        But VCs may certainly be big boys, you got that right. With toys.

        • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Wednesday May 20 2020, @04:10PM

          by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday May 20 2020, @04:10PM (#996947)

          a future automated economy should also be a software agent / API-enabled economy.

          A beautiful vision of the future. Probably completely unrealistic though.

          It's not in anybody's best interest to open up their APIs. You're not going to have a portable profile that uses everyone else's software. You're going to have profiles on their servers, which they control, with your data locked behind their opaque APIs and designed to only work with their frontend that doesn't implement copy/paste.

          Of course, all that is a side show to the real game: market control. DoorDash is clearly trying to get businesses to sign exclusive contracts before a better game arrives in town. Why else would they hemorrhage money like this to deliver a known poor customer experience?

          ...anyway, by "big boys", I meant actually successful businesses like Google and Tesla that are actually working on self-driving cars. Not leeches like VCs and their "Ubernicorns" that are just waiting for somebody else to invent their killer app.

          --
          If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:28AM

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:28AM (#997189)

      Doordash is engaging in fraud. I hope they try this trick on someone rich enough to sue them for civil damages, and who finds some state attorney who'll file criminal charges against the executive officers.

  • (Score: 1) by Frosty Piss on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:58PM (4 children)

    by Frosty Piss (4971) on Tuesday May 19 2020, @07:58PM (#996496)

    He says the pizzas cost him $7 to make yet he sells them for $24?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:51PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @08:51PM (#996536)

      Go and factor in what rent, commercial power rates, etc are and that is not a lot of overhead, unless you're selling hundreds of pizzas a day (hint: most places aren't.)

      Also 24USD is about what pizzas cost here from anywhere but the largest corporate chains (dominos or little czar)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 19 2020, @11:46PM (#996622)

        That's insane. The most expensive place within 10 miles has some $20-30 pizzas, but most places are half that or less.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @02:27AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @02:27AM (#996678)

      We are not in a high rent city. If you want to sit in a reasonable setting (not greasy spoon) and eat your pizza in, it will be in the $20 and up range. $24 for a nice experience is about right.

      For take out we used to have a Pizza Hut around the corner that did a great job, but it closed last year (speculation--their expenses were high--using extra ingredients??) Their dining area was a pit, we never ate in there.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @03:23AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 20 2020, @03:23AM (#996712)

      Then buy them frozen for $10.

  • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:19AM

    by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday May 21 2020, @01:19AM (#997184)

    That the ingredients for a pizza and the box it's sent in add up to $7 doesn't make the cost of the pizza $7. There are labor costs. There's fuel, electricity, rent, taxes, insurance, and other overhead.

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