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posted by martyb on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:26PM   Printer-friendly
from the pics-or-it-didn't-happen? dept.

Wanna force granny to take down that family photo from the internet? No problem. Europe's GDPR to the rescue:

A court in the Netherlands ruled this month that a grandmother must remove pictures of her grandchildren from her social media accounts after her daughter filed a privacy complaint.

The grandmother, according to a Gelderland District Court summary, has not been in contact with her daughter for more than a year due to a family argument.

Her daughter has three minor children who appear in pictures the grandmother posted to social media accounts on Facebook and Pinterest. In February, the daughter wrote to her mother, noting that her requests made via the police to remove the photos of her children from social media have been ignored and giving her mother until March 5 to comply or face legal action.

After the grandmother failed to take the photos down, the mother took her complaint to court.

The Dutch implementation of Europe's General Data Protection Act requires that anyone posting photos of minors obtain consent from their legal guardians.

When the court took up the matter in April, the grandmother had removed photos, except for one from Facebook. She wanted that one picture, of the grandson she had cared for from April 2012 through April 2019 while the boy and his father, separated from the mother, lived with her.

The father in the instance of the Facebook image also did not consent to the publication of the image.

[...] Accordingly, the judge gave the grandmother ten days to remove the picture. If it isn't not removed by then, a fine of €50.00 (£45, $55) will be imposed each day the images remain in place, up to a maximum of €1,000 (£900, $1,095).


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  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:28PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:28PM (#998599)

    Are you enjoying COVID-19, Boomers? I hope you are, because your political response to the pandemic has completely destroyed the economy. Did we really need a Great Recession in 2008 caused by you, and a Great Lockdown in 2020 caused by you? Are you proud of yourselves for creating an economic depression even worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s? Are you proud of yourselves, Boomers? Your legacy will be economic ruin for all. You don't care as long as you Boomers continue to receive your pensions. You Boomers don't have jobs. You Boomers don't create jobs. You Boomers don't do anything for anyone ever. You Boomers are utterly worthless parasites. You don't care about anybody except yourselves. Everybody except you is forced at gunpoint to wear a facemask while you Boomers sit in your giant mansions laughing and waiting to die when you will be buried with your fortunes so nobody will ever touch your precious money.

    Boomers did COVID-19.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:51PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:51PM (#998607)

      You Boomers don't create jobs.

      Neither do the Millennials.
      Besides, one doesn't need a job to live.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:07PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:07PM (#998614)

        》Besides, one doesn't need a job to live.

        That's right, you can just live off your savings... except millennials have no savings since they spent all their money on tattoos.

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:19PM (#998624)

          That's right, nobody remembers Generation X, the other lost generation. Everyone is either a Millennial loser or a Boomer winner in the Boomer world view.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by khallow on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:54PM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:54PM (#998610) Journal
      Ok, Boomer.
      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:06AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:06AM (#998636)

        OK, khallow!

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:18AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:18AM (#998640)

          That's really low.

    • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:21AM (#998641)

      You're out of the Will.

    • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:26AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:26AM (#998642)

      Whiney Incel.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:50AM (#998707)

      Are you enjoying COVID-19, Boomers? I hope you are, because your political response to the pandemic has completely destroyed the economy.

      I think they feel they do. My boomer parents tell me "Oh, nothing much has changed for me the past few months".

      That's untrue of course; their grandchildren's parents are CNN-believing NPCs, so they haven't seen the grandchildren for months. And they used to eat out a lot. They're just willing to accept more than I am.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:37PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:37PM (#998601)

    I wish Michael David Crawford had lived just long enough to die of COVID-19.

    Because I am vindicated. There are zero coding jobs. There are zero tech jobs. There are zero soggy jobs. There are zero jobs for anyone. There are zero jobs.

    The Great Lockdown is the greatest thing ever and that fake jobs peddling snake oil salesman Michael David Crawford just missed his calling in life: advertising fake jobs during a economic downturn so bad, everyone knows for a fact that he is lying.

    FUCK. MDC.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:47PM (24 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Sunday May 24 2020, @10:47PM (#998605) Journal
    Seriously, she stalled for months, and when it finally gets through the courts they give her another 10 days to comply?

    That's worse than useless. Whether through malice or ignorance, the court is effectively advertising for mirrors.

    And what about HotorNot itself? Their business is in large degree built on enabling and encouraging exactly this sort of behavior, so how are they allowed to exist and do business in Europe to begin with?

    Just a few decades back it was understood that while you could legally photograph just about anything you could legally see, you were /not/ generally allowed to publish photographs of other people without explicit signed consent. Of course there were exceptions but that was sort of the default presumption.

    Now, we find that in the nations with what are supposed to be the *best* privacy laws, the presumption is reversed. Hotornot or whatever the Zuck is calling his website now publishes the photos of millions probably billions of people, going so far as to build a huge facial recognition database out of them, by presuming permission. And IF the victims find out and IF they live in the right country and IF they can get a lawyer to file THEN at some point in the future they'll have to at least pretend to delete the data.

    Even George Orwell never imagined just how pervasive the monitoring could be - because he was imagining a human secret police force to do the spying. Not a mass of scuzzbots.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:16PM (18 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:16PM (#998621)

      Even George Orwell never imagined just how pervasive the monitoring could be - because he was imagining a human secret police force to do the spying. Not a mass of scuzzbots.

      Your comparison is shit because you don't understand how the Orwellian world worked. The superpowers deliberately didn't develop the technology to do automated spying. They deliberately employed a human secret police force because doing so kept people employed. The alternative is the utterly fucked up world we live in right now where people like me spend an entire lifetime coding from age 5 onward and earn advanced degrees in computer science and still never ever find a coding job. And I continue coding even though I will never earn a cent from it because the jobs just don't exist. Make no fucking mistake: I am a fucking prole. In a world of thought police I would still be trolling the motherfucking shit out of you because nothing I do matters no matter what I do. Remember: animals and proles are free. Or do you remember? Did you ever even read Nineteen Eighty Four?

      In Nineteen Eighty Four the human secret police force was a government jobs program and it worked very well to keep people busy spying on each other. In the real world the billionaires are doing jack shit fucking nothing to create jobs and instead are getting themselves elected so they can tell everyone to wear a facemask and die poor.

      So really, did you ever even read Nineteen Eighty Four or you one of those moronic idiots who think you know things without reading?

      FUCK MDC

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:11AM (12 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:11AM (#998638)

        And I continue coding even though I will never earn a cent from it because the jobs just don't exist. Make no fucking mistake: I am a fucking prole.

        No, you are an idiot. Maybe you should stop coding, and get a real job? Evidently, you are not very good at coding, or you would have had a job by now. Or do you have personality traits that make you unemployable? Strong body odor or excessive flatuousness? Assburger's level of social inappropriatude?

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Mykl on Monday May 25 2020, @01:09AM (5 children)

          by Mykl (1112) on Monday May 25 2020, @01:09AM (#998662)

          Knowing how to code does not make you a develop. You also need to:

          • Know how to work constructively with a range of stakeholder groups (other developers, testers, users, business reps)
          • Know how to compromise and work to a central coding standard rather than just doing whatever you want
          • Be able to understand that sometimes the user wants something that you would not want, and that it's your job to provide them that rather than argue with them
          • Keeping the last point in mind, realising that the user may not appreciate the implications or consequences of what they are asking for, and to _constructively_ influence their decisions

          This just off the top of my head. There would be more, but I'm outta time

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:21AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:21AM (#998669)

            Knowing how to code does not make you a developer. You also need to:

            1. Suck a lot of cock.
            2. Suck more cock.
            3. Suck a whole lotta cock.
            4. Suck cock.

            Michael David Crawford was a really good cocksucker for real. We are diminished by his passing.

            Fuck MDC

            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @04:57AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @04:57AM (#998738)

              The jealousy is real.

            • (Score: 4, Informative) by Mykl on Monday May 25 2020, @06:53AM

              by Mykl (1112) on Monday May 25 2020, @06:53AM (#998764)

              Your views on working constructively with others says everything we need to know.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:33AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:33AM (#998695)

            So many corporations are inept and will discriminate against you for any random reason, even if you can do the job perfectly well. Don't forget about that.

            • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:46AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:46AM (#998704)

              Corporations are built on lies told to investors. Don't forget about that. Lying about hiring makes corporations look more successful than they are, then duped investors invest, making perception into reality. Too bad about all those losing applicants who get processed and rejected as corporations go through the motions of pretending to hire with no intention of hiring anyone.

              Fuck MDC

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:16AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:16AM (#998666)

          I don't buy your blatant lie that coding jobs even exist. If I'm such a bad coder as you claim, why was I the one correcting the obvious coding mistakes made by the teaching assistants in college, how did I earn A grades in computer science classes, and how did I graduate with honors? How did I manage to go on to do original research in computer science and earn an advanced degree? How have I been contributing working useful code to open source projects for years? Why is it that when I list my achievements on a resume, I get constant praise and zero job offers?

          No, the problem here is if I, a natural born coder who is so passionate about coding that I continue to code personal projects after years upon years of rejection and after applying for thousands upon thousands of advertised job openings, cannot ever find even one low paying crap job in your tech industry, then your entire tech industry is based upon obvious fraud. There are no jobs. The jobs do not exist. Every job posting is fraudulent. The jobs are fake.

          Understand this. You cannot lie to me. I have enough experience of your fake job market to know your fake jobs are fake. I have the high GPA and the earned degrees and the years of open source contribution to prove I am not the problem. Your tech industry is the problem.

          Lying turds like the thankfully departed piece of shit Michael David Crawford are the problem. He knew Soggy Jobs was a fake job board. I only wish he had died of COVID-19 during the Great Lockdown when the absence of jobs is well known so his fraud would have been obvious even to deluded morons as stupid as you.

          Fuck MDC

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:43AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:43AM (#998678)

            I don't know about your coding, but atleast your attitude sucks. Dude you need to chill.

            • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:37AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:37AM (#998697)

              Dudebro, I was plenty chill when I was naive enough to believe jobs exist. Since the jobs very obviously don't exist, this is the fucking attitude that you fucking deserve to fucking get for fucking lying to me my entire fucking life.

              Fuck MDC

              • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:32AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:32AM (#998745)

                Prime candidate for UBI right here. Would let this person relax for a while without worrying about a job, maybe enough to calm the fuck down.

                There are not infinite jobs, the american dream was a lie, and coding jobs require a lot of experience with specific tools. Sorry it has been hard for you, maybe explore something else you probably consider beneath you.

          • (Score: 2) by Arik on Monday May 25 2020, @01:53AM

            by Arik (4543) on Monday May 25 2020, @01:53AM (#998682) Journal
            You know, it depends in large degree on how you define a coding job.

            "I don't buy your blatant lie that coding jobs even exist."

            There are tons of coding jobs, in the sense that there are tons of folks pulling down regular paychecks paying a bunch of bills and nesting with the cash all around the world to do things that can (with sufficient charity) be called coding.

            This is objectively verifiable.

            Now for the most part this is potlach, they're writing re-implementations of code that already existed, while adding little if anything of value and often losing value in the process, in order to become more buzzword compliant or more conformant with the current monetization strategy.

            That shit is not really doing a job as in getting needed work done expeditiously, which is how I prefer to read it as a working man.

            So maybe that latter is what you really meant here?

            "If I'm such a bad coder as you claim, why was I the one correcting the obvious coding mistakes made by the teaching assistants in college, how did I earn A grades in computer science classes, and how did I graduate with honors? How did I manage to go on to do original research in computer science and earn an advanced degree? How have I been contributing working useful code to open source projects for years?"

            It's possible that your competition was just consistently awful? ;)

            "Why is it that when I list my achievements on a resume, I get constant praise and zero job offers?"

            Now that's a more interesting and potentially helpful question, but without your resumé and some context it's hard to even hazard a guess.

            "No, the problem here is if I, a natural born coder who is so passionate about coding that I continue to code personal projects after years upon years of rejection and after applying for thousands upon thousands of advertised job openings, cannot ever find even one low paying crap job in your tech industry, then your entire tech industry is based upon obvious fraud."

            Well, doh. It's based on /layers/ of fraud. It's like a freaking onion at this point.

            But the fraud isn't that jobs don't exist. It's that those jobs are just as dumbed down and outsourced as possible, and then another 20% at least. The fraud is that these jobs are administered by corporations that have no understanding of them, beyond numbers on a payroll spreadsheet.

            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:58AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:58AM (#998711)

            Have you tried being a mensch?

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Arik on Monday May 25 2020, @12:35AM (4 children)

        by Arik (4543) on Monday May 25 2020, @12:35AM (#998646) Journal
        "Your comparison is shit because you don't understand how the Orwellian world worked. The superpowers deliberately didn't develop the technology to do automated spying. They deliberately employed a human secret police force because doing so kept people employed."

        That's a reasonable backport, though I doubt it's historically accurate.

        "The alternative is the utterly fucked up world we live in right now where people like me spend an entire lifetime coding from age 5 onward and earn advanced degrees in computer science and still never ever find a coding job."

        Your own circumstances may be to some degree tragic, but can in no way serve as shorthand for how truly fucked up this world is for many others.

        Why do you expect a 'coding job?'

        "And I continue coding even though I will never earn a cent from it because the jobs just don't exist."

        See? There don't need to be any coding jobs for you to code. And ideally one should code for the good of humanity, not to make a quick buck by being a tool anyway.

        "Make no fucking mistake: I am a fucking prole."

        You and I both, tovarisch.

        "In a world of thought police I would still be trolling the motherfucking shit out of you because nothing I do matters no matter what I do."

        So you're Emo?

        "Remember: animals and proles are free. Or do you remember? Did you ever even read Nineteen Eighty Four?"

        Nineteen Eighty-Four I first read in 1982 or thereabouts, and I've read it dozens of times at least.

        Animal Farm was in some ways better and I probably didn't read that until about 1984, but again I've read it cover to cover several times.

        George Orwell wrote many other things that were worth the read as well as these; on his experiences in Catalonia and Burma for example.

        I've always thought of him as a bit of a UK version of Mark Twain. An author well worth reading.

        But dystopian literature goes far beyond Orwell.

        Remember Wells and his Morlocks? How about Kafka's Trial? Zamyatin's We became Rand's We the Living became Anthem. Huxley's Brave New World? Heinlein's If this goes on?

        Anthony Burgess should be on the list too. Have you read 1985?

        Don't play this game with me, it won't go well for you.

        "In Nineteen Eighty Four the human secret police force was a government jobs program and it worked very well to keep people busy spying on each other. In the real world the billionaires are doing jack shit fucking nothing to create jobs and instead are getting themselves elected so they can tell everyone to wear a facemask and die poor."

        It's worse than that though. Behind the facade of the bots running everywhere, teenagers in third world countries earning minimum wage have been recruited to do the job, because the bots /still/ aren't up to it.

        Oh yeah. That's the truth. It's even worse than you thought.

        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:47AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @12:47AM (#998649)

          See? There don't need to be any coding jobs for you to code. And ideally one should code for the good of humanity, not to make a quick buck by being a tool anyway.

          The troll can regurgitate a whole rant just on this bit alone.

          • (Score: 1) by Arik on Monday May 25 2020, @12:54AM (1 child)

            by Arik (4543) on Monday May 25 2020, @12:54AM (#998652) Journal
            Aww, are you asking me to quit feeding the troll?
            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:11AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @01:11AM (#998664)

              No, I just want to see that ~beautiful~ FOSS rant.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by EEMac on Monday May 25 2020, @02:48PM

          by EEMac (6423) on Monday May 25 2020, @02:48PM (#998828)

          >> "Your comparison is shit because you don't understand how the Orwellian world worked. The superpowers deliberately didn't develop the technology to do automated spying. They deliberately employed a human secret police force because doing so kept people employed."

          > That's a reasonable backport, though I doubt it's historically accurate.

          Describing this as a backport was AWESOME.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:30AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:30AM (#998693)

      People need to stop violating their children's privacy. It seems many parents just surrender all of their children's data to mega-corporations, and that should not be allowed. I would be furious had monstrous surveillance engines like Facebook existed when I was a kid, and my parents surrendered all my data to them.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by crafoo on Monday May 25 2020, @10:56AM (1 child)

        by crafoo (6639) on Monday May 25 2020, @10:56AM (#998807)

        I'd go so far as to say most parents do not see their children as people. More as an extension of themselves (especially mothers). It sucks. It produces messed up adults. Seems to be reality though.

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday May 25 2020, @03:43PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Monday May 25 2020, @03:43PM (#998839) Homepage Journal

          I think you're right. I also think, more often than not, that attitude doesn't change when their children become adults. Except perhaps for the parents becoming even more childish.

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday May 25 2020, @06:32PM

        by TheRaven (270) on Monday May 25 2020, @06:32PM (#998900) Journal

        It's worth noting that the court decided specifically that it was the involvement of Facebook that made this a GDPR violation. You cannot violate the GDPR by sharing pictures of friends and family with other friends and family members, it only becomes a violation once you involve a third-party. Taking the photos is fine. Showing them to friends on your phone / computer is fine. Putting them on a privately owned web server is borderline. Providing them to a third-party corporation for redistribution, data mining, and so on is absolutely not fine.

        I am very happy with this ruling. If you want to do business with Facebook, that's your choice and it's up to you to decide if the benefits outweigh the cost. If you decide that one of the pieces of personally identifiable information that you want to sell to Facebook in exchange for some crappy web hosting describes someone else, that's not fine without that person's consent.

        --
        sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @05:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @05:33AM (#999106)

      I could have started every successful web business of the last 25 years. But like the release required for photography subjects, most of those other business ideas were tossed out because it was either outright illegal or went against common legal precedent of the day.

      Somehow all that got tossed aside (I assume thanks to vulture capitalist lobbying) and the world has steadily made no pretense of preserving the rule of law for the little folk or the right to privacy and security of ones information that had been even marginally presumed in the past century.

  • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by szopin on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:00PM (5 children)

    by szopin (5710) on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:00PM (#998612) Homepage Journal

    test

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:13PM (#998618)

      test

      testing, testing. one-two, one-two.
      (screech of feedback)

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:17PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:17PM (#998623)

      Test received. Well done, szopin, you are now certified to make actual replye!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:21PM (#998626)

        Fuck MDC

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @07:55AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @07:55AM (#998778)

        "Yea, and God said to Abraham, 'You will kill your son Isaac.' And Abraham said, 'I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone.' And God said, 'Oh, I'm sorry, is this better? Check, check, check. Jerry, pull the high end out, I'm still getting some hiss back here.'"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @04:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @04:55PM (#998870)

      Just a high five for that absolute whinefest yesterday. Trump should be proud, they say immitation is the highest form of flattery.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:11PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:11PM (#998616)

    I think it is good that photos of minors are not plastered online without carer/parental consent. Putting anything on social media is stooopid, but people are stooopid. Refer to the John Cleese clip on the web on how stooopid you have to be to not know you ARE stooopid. In this case, it would seem that for the period April 2012 to April 2019, the grandmother was the primary care giver. Therefore, what every 6 year old should be able to figure out, is that images she took from that period belong to and are subject to consent of the grandmother, not the mother of father. That pictures of a kid simply do not belong online, is another matter.
    Warning sheeple for 2 decades and still being ignored.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:35PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:35PM (#998630)

    Don't forget to wear your face mask while you code. Only 40 losers allowed in the bread line at a time. Stand 6 feet apart or we taser you and haul your ass to jail where you will catch COVID-19 and die.

    Oh, and learning to code to land a six figure job? Yeah, that was always a lie. Coding is a worthless skill. Software wants to be free and you will never get paid. Die poor now.

    Fuck MDC

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @03:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @03:05AM (#998714)

      I work for a university and make close to 6 figures coding.

      Your skills are only worth as much as someone is going to pay for it. There's more people looking for a job than there are jobs available. So employers can outright reject anyone with a monster chip on their shoulder.

  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by bzipitidoo on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:55PM (12 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Sunday May 24 2020, @11:55PM (#998633) Journal

    I wonder. Let's turn "on a computer" around, to "not on a computer." If grandma carried photos of her grandkids in her purse, and met friends for dinner, gossip, and the passing around and viewing of those photos, could the GDPR be used to stop that? A church or school bulletin board (the old fashioned kind with cork board and push pins) used for posting prints of photos, would those have to be removed?

    I've been thinking about privacy for a while now. Simply put, it's a way to hide from potential dangers, keep information from enemies who could use it to hurt, if only they knew it. Enemies come in 2 basic types, opportunistic predatory sorts who have no personal relationship with a potential target, basically "stranger danger", and jealous rivals, bullies, or sadists who know a lot about their target, because they work or go to school with them. The 2nd category is far more common, and the relationship can be much more complicated than a simple evil bit setting. Stranger danger has been massively overblown, and a regulation like the GDPR seems too oriented on that. For the more common problem, it's unreasonable to expect to hide forever from a rival who is often in close proximity, and the GDPR can't change that basic fact of life. Can't skip class for a month to hide that embarrassingly botched new haircut or whatever from the eyes of your classmates. Maybe could walk around with a paper bag over your head all day long, but that is likely to backfire, attracting even more attention.

    Enter technology. It's gotten a lot harder to hide, with security and cellphone cameras everywhere, and networking able to disseminate that info worldwide. This huge change has raised the question: what kind of and how much privacy is reasonable to expect? There have always been people who demand unreasonable levels of privacy. It's impractical. We live in a civil society. Protection from deadly dangers is afforded through the enforcement of laws against harm, not hiding.

    • (Score: 1) by Arik on Monday May 25 2020, @01:26AM (3 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Monday May 25 2020, @01:26AM (#998671) Journal
      "If grandma carried photos of her grandkids in her purse, and met friends for dinner, gossip, and the passing around and viewing of those photos, could the GDPR be used to stop that? A church or school bulletin board (the old fashioned kind with cork board and push pins) used for posting prints of photos, would those have to be removed?"

      Well the GDPR wouldn't apply to either, as it's an on-the internet law; so at that level the question is silly.

      I'll presume you didn't mean to make it that silly and it should be read a bit more broadly - would someone that cares about privacy think these are things that should be regulated?

      I can't speak for everyone that cares about privacy, but for my own opinion, if she has a physical photo that she obtained legitimately she can show it to anyone she wants, subject to the limitations of the physical photo, whether I like it or not.

      When she starts making copies of it and giving those out, then I start to think that she just might be crossing a line. Assuming she doesn't have a written release.

      Putting a photo up on the interwebs is the ultimate in making copies and giving them out. Obviously.

      /On a computer/ shouldn't change that in any legal or ethical sense, only in the practical sense. It's easier to do legitimate things (make a backup) and easier to do questionable things (share without permission.) But whether something is legal or ethical shouldn't have anything to do with how easy it is to do.

      "Simply put, it's a way to hide from potential dangers, keep information from enemies who could use it to hurt, if only they knew it."

      This isn't so much *wrong* as just /myopic/ but it's far less than a half truth.

      Information? You think I am trying to hold down the "information" by not spreading my face around the interwebs?

      Is that REALLY the only possible motivation from your vantage point?
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday May 25 2020, @04:30AM (1 child)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday May 25 2020, @04:30AM (#998729) Journal

        Why else is privacy desirable? Avoidance of discrimination by keeping quiet about things that can't be easily determined by appearances, such as religious affiliation, political affiliation, and exact age? To forestall the envy of people who want something they can seize upon to compare themselves to you, and by that measure possibly conclude that you have more? To keep our privates private, hidden under clothing? To provide an escape valve, from overly restrictive social mores and wrongheaded laws? What would you add to that? It's really not useful to blindly accept privacy as good and desirable, without being as clear as possible just what that means, and why it's so great.

        > But whether something is legal or ethical shouldn't have anything to do with how easy it is to do.

        Maybe. But from a practical perspective, it does matter. Also, one aspect of "easy to do" is that few have any objection, because the act in question is no potential threat to them. In other words, it's natural law. I mean by that not just easy to commit, but easily accepted by others.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Monday May 25 2020, @04:45AM

          by Arik (4543) on Monday May 25 2020, @04:45AM (#998734) Journal
          "Avoidance of discrimination"

          A very common and legitimate motivation.

          "To forestall the envy"

          Frankly, yes, and again completely legitimate.

          "To keep our privates private, hidden under clothing?"

          Should we not be allowed to do that now?

          Has it been declared counter-revolutionary to be shy?
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Monday May 25 2020, @05:28AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday May 25 2020, @05:28AM (#998743) Journal

        I can't speak for everyone that cares about privacy, but for my own opinion, if she has a physical photo that she obtained legitimately she can show it to anyone she wants, subject to the limitations of the physical photo, whether I like it or not.

        Well, there are also legal restrictions for physical photos. For example, if for some reason she wanted to publish it on a magazine, she would have to get a model release. I think the same would apply if she wanted to present it at a gallery.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Absolutely.Geek on Monday May 25 2020, @01:33AM (5 children)

      by Absolutely.Geek (5328) on Monday May 25 2020, @01:33AM (#998676)

      Your basic assumption is wrong for a lot of people.

      I've been thinking about privacy for a while now. Simply put, it's a way to hide from potential dangers, keep information from enemies who could see it to hurt, if only they knew it.

      As a parent of young kids; I don't want their pictures on any social media; not because of any imagined "enemy" or nefarious plot against them or the family. But simply because their image is theirs; until they can give informed consent about how it is used; then the default should be privacy. Not privacy at any cost but at a reasonable cost i.e. telling the grandmothers etc that the pictures I send are not to be put on Facebook or Instagram etc...

      I wonder. Let's turn "on a computer" around, to "not on a computer." If grandma carried photos of her grandkids in her purse, and met friends for dinner, gossip, and the passing around and viewing of those photos, could the GDPR be used to stop that? A church or school bulletin board (the old fashioned kind with cork board and push pins) used for posting prints of photos, would those have to be removed?

      Also conflating the online and offline versions of this is a strange comparison to make; in one situation the image is tied intrinsically to an object not easily copied and distributed; in the other the image is stored somewhere on a server, distributed with basically no effort and easily copied from one place (FB for example) to another (say Instagram). In the offline situation losing control of an image is easy but basically harmless; in the other it is a little harder; but an error in the "privacy" settings on a service means the image can (and does) get scraped by some algorithm and can end up in some stock photo archive or worse.

      --
      Don't trust the police or the government - Shihad: My mind's sedate.
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Absolutely.Geek on Monday May 25 2020, @03:23AM (1 child)

        by Absolutely.Geek (5328) on Monday May 25 2020, @03:23AM (#998719)

        Comedy is not really what I was going for; but it will do.

        Not sure why I'm getting modded funny.

        --
        Don't trust the police or the government - Shihad: My mind's sedate.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:38AM (#998750)

          It is a recent trend from the local trolls. Their attempt to minimize points they don't like.

      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday May 25 2020, @09:16PM (2 children)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday May 25 2020, @09:16PM (#998956) Journal

        > As a parent of young kids; I don't want their pictures on any social media;

        Do you also skip the photo sessions for yearbooks, which is customary across the US? Group photos of the entire class are also common. The whole town has access to those. Anyone could scan and post anything from there. The originals are probably all digital now anyway, and while behind some sort of paywall, they're nevertheless online.

        Further, smartphones with cameras are everywhere. Any classmate could take a photo with your kid in it. How can you reasonably expect all that to be policed, and ownership enforced? And more, why bother, what's the harm in it, really?

        Then there are security cameras. No doubt they're plastered all over schools, as well as retail outlets.

        As for databases, there's passport photos, and driver's license photos, to name just two. Another thrilling one is the mugshot database, should your child ever be accused of some crime. On that last one, probably lots of restrictions for minors, but still, it exists.

        The ship has sailed, the sun has set, on this expectation of privacy. And that's okay. Whatever has been lost thereby is surely more than compensated by the many gains.

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:02AM

          by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:02AM (#999036) Journal
          "And more, why bother, what's the harm in it, really?"

          Only the creation of the real life dystopia. Nothing much, really?

          It's just the end of all hope that the next generation will inherit a world no more evil than the one we inherited.

          Nothing much? Really?
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 2) by Absolutely.Geek on Tuesday May 26 2020, @02:42AM

          by Absolutely.Geek (5328) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @02:42AM (#999067)

          The ship has sailed, the sun has set, on this expectation of privacy. And that's okay. Whatever has been lost thereby is surely more than compensated by the many gains.

          Just because something is difficult; does not mean that it is not worthwhile. In fact quite the opposite, often the most worthwhile things are also the most difficult. But in reality keeping the kids off of the net isn't all that difficult.
          In the future it maybe that the kids will thank us for the small amount of effort we have put in to keep them out of the all seeing eye of the marketing dragnet. I doubt they will be unhappy that we didn't plaster them all over the internet.

          Also I don't live in America where it seems things are different; here in New Zealand, we do expect privacy; we have the Privacy Act [legislation.govt.nz] which allows us to see what data is being held about us; unfortunately most here don't realize that with social media companies the data you share is not held under the laws of the country that you reside in but in the country where they get the best deal. Also the data you give them is theirs not yours; so good luck getting them to delete anything completely.

          Anyone could scan and post anything from there.

          This is much more effort then just a few clicks; also it is really hard to write an automated script to get a person to scan and post pictures.

          --
          Don't trust the police or the government - Shihad: My mind's sedate.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Monday May 25 2020, @05:33AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday May 25 2020, @05:33AM (#998746) Journal

      If grandma carried photos of her grandkids in her purse, and met friends for dinner, gossip, and the passing around and viewing of those photos, could the GDPR be used to stop that?

      Of course not. But if she gave them to a magazine for publication, she certainly would need permission (known as model release), even without GDPR.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by theluggage on Monday May 25 2020, @10:23AM

      by theluggage (1797) on Monday May 25 2020, @10:23AM (#998802)

      I wonder. Let's turn "on a computer" around, to "not on a computer." If grandma carried photos of her grandkids in her purse, and met friends for dinner, gossip, and the passing around and viewing of those photos, could the GDPR be used to stop that? A church or school bulletin board (the old fashioned kind with cork board and push pins) used for posting prints of photos, would those have to be removed?

      Ask a lawyer - maybe you could get some sort of restraining order. Certainly, if the parents/guardians ask Granny to stop, then she should - no ifs or buts. The church would almost certainly take down the pictures if asked by the parents and in the 21st century most reputable schools wouldn't put up photos without consent (even pre-GDPR).

      Thing is, though, Granny can only show her photos to a few dozen people. They're not going to be accessible in Darkest Madeupistan. There are no bots searching the purses of the world's grandmas for pervert-friendly photos. They're not going to get seen by abusive ex-partner when Arsebook auto-tags them their original names. Granny's polaroids aren't going to end up as Fake Cancer Kids in an email scam or as the poster children for an anti-vax campaign. They're not going to go viral because one of the kids looks like baby Yoda. They're not going to be Embarrassing Constipation Meme Kids on a million tweets. When Granny shows some poor victim a baby photo, she doesn't implicitly grant that person non-exclusive rights to copy and use that image for commercial purposes.

      The scale, and potential for abuse, of electronic data is orders of magnitude beyond what was possible with physical media. That's why it needs different laws.

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