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posted by chromas on Monday May 25 2020, @08:18AM   Printer-friendly
from the Stacker-j'-vu dept.

Seems like the takeover of free software continues apace, in the land of Redmond, where the Blue Screens lie.
From ZDNet,

The Windows Package Manager service and the winget.exe command-line tool are now available in public preview for everyone to test. Winget comes with the preview version of Windows App Installer for sideloading apps on Windows 10.

While Windows 10 users can install apps from the Microsoft Store, the Windows Package Manager will help developers install tools that aren't necessarily available in the store, such as Win32 software products that haven't been converted to Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps in the store.

win-get? As the Operative said in "Serenity", "Bastards aren't even changing course!" Microsoft not even changing the name of the utility. At least with Stacker, they changed the name to DoubleSpace.

The tool can help users get their apps by typing 'winget install' followed by the program name into the command line or create a script that automatically installs all necessary tools.

The package manager is available to users in Microsoft's Windows Insider testing program after installing Microsoft's App Installer program.

Microsoft has aimed to create a repository of trusted applications, from which the package manager can install apps that have been vetted with its SmartScreen technology and cryptographically verified.

While the package manager does provide an alternative to the Microsoft Store, formerly the Windows Store, Microsoft says it changes nothing for the store.

What is this "store" they speak of?

The key difference between the Microsoft Store and Windows Package Manager is that the store is all about commerce while the package manager is not.

"The Windows Package Manager is a command-line interface, no marketing, no images, no commerce. Although we do plan on making those apps installable too," said Demitrius Nelon, a senior program manager at Microsoft.

Seems that they copied that from free software, specifically Debian, as well. "bash:~& sudo win-get remove --purge Windows --extreme-prejudice" Adm. Akbar says: "It's a trap!"


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  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @08:30AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @08:30AM (#998786)

    SysAdm. Akbar says: "It's a trap!"

    FTFY

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday May 25 2020, @11:53AM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Monday May 25 2020, @11:53AM (#998810) Journal

      Thank you very munch.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:04PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:04PM (#998983)

      Akbar says: "It's a trap!"

      That always confused me, as that isn't the first time the phrase was used in the series.

      At about 1:38:30 into "The Empire Strikes Back" Leia warns Luke, "Don't it's a trap. Luke! It's a trap!"

      As such, any time I hear that reference, that's what I think of.

      Then again, you never know what's going to go viral. More's the pity.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:03AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:03AM (#999134)

        Amazing!
        At about 1:38:30 into "Serenity", Zoe says. "So, trap?" And Cap'n Smartypants says: "Trap."

        "Chance at seeing who's turning these wheels."

        That is what a trap is, unless it is a Death Star, AT&T, or Micro$oft, in which case we already know. Mostly.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:19AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:19AM (#999155)

          WTF are you blathering on about?

          Never mind. I don't care.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @06:40PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @06:40PM (#999326)

            Turn in your gorram geek card. The Alliance will never have you and the Browncoats will turn you away. Might end up findin yourself bushwhacked by someone who doesn't take kindly to your patter.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @07:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @07:52PM (#999349)

              Fuck Firefly.

              I never watched that garbage and wouldn't do so if I were offered lots money to do so.

              And fuck you too.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:40AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:40AM (#998798)

    win-get

    Pronounced: wing-it.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Monday May 25 2020, @09:58AM (4 children)

    by RamiK (1813) on Monday May 25 2020, @09:58AM (#998800)

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/20/microsoft_announces_official_windows_package/ [theregister.co.uk]

    The Register immediately wonders why not Chocolatey, criticizes the technical issues (not actually managing the packages) and delivers Microsoft's half-assed response to them (they should use MSIX).

    --
    compiling...
    • (Score: 2) by chromas on Monday May 25 2020, @10:39AM (3 children)

      by chromas (34) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @10:39AM (#998806) Journal

      Yes. I should've looked around for more sources and probably cut out the commentary. I'll wait here for a lashing from staff and/or the community :)

      I also use chocolatey on a couple boxes. It's pretty great except for the slow startup time. Thanks, PowerShell.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Monday May 25 2020, @11:55AM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Monday May 25 2020, @11:55AM (#998811) Journal

        I am amazed that this sub made it through with Firefly and Starwars references both intact. This could be the start of a beautiful relationship. Play it again, chromas!

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by RamiK on Monday May 25 2020, @12:16PM

        by RamiK (1813) on Monday May 25 2020, @12:16PM (#998814)

        I should've looked around for more sources

        Not blaming. It's possible their coverage hasn't been published by then. Just figured people be better off reading an actual piece of tech journalism as opposed to a copy-paste of a press release.

        and probably cut out the commentary

        Nah I like Ari's commentary. Though he/you could have linked http://win-get.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] for those not familiar...

        --
        compiling...
      • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday May 25 2020, @10:10PM

        by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday May 25 2020, @10:10PM (#998986)

        I'll wait here for a lashing from staff and/or the community :)

        You dirty little bugger.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:32AM (28 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:32AM (#998803)

    Give them another 20 years and they will have Microsoft Windows up to a point of feature parity with any mainstream Linux distribution from the early 2000s

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 25 2020, @11:29AM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @11:29AM (#998808) Journal

      Yep. And, give SystemD 20 years, and it will have all the features of Win95. ;^)

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:20PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @02:20PM (#998825)

        Runaway, stop bullshitting the crowd. They can smell it a mile away.
        It's 5 years, if Linux is still usable by then.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:06PM (25 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:06PM (#998949)

      I hope not.

      Modern (repo-based) package managers in Linux act as a soft walled garden. While it's possible to add applications manually, it involves a lot more technical know-how about Linux, especially since it often means compiling from source. Otherwise you only have whatever programs the distro maker deigned fit to compile and package for that version. This especially works to crush old (but perfectly functional) and niche choices. Some people compile their work for a few specific distros, but this has its own problems. Have a Red Hat derivative, not Ubuntu? Guess you're out of luck. Almost as bad: if the last package build is against an old distro version.

      Microsoft will use this as a springboard to a hard walled garden to continue the process of locking down their OS. That's their end goal with this. Windows 10 S telegraphs their strategy - it lets them control your computer (and data and software... and you, ultimately), and lets them make money by making Win32 "legacy," an increasingly meaningless prejorative aimed at anything that hasn't had an update in two months and/or isn't interpreted by multiple layers.

      2020 Microsoft isn't the Microsoft of old. They are bent on even more control than the 90s.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Monday May 25 2020, @09:51PM (2 children)

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @09:51PM (#998977) Journal

        ./configure && make && make install

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 25 2020, @11:25PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @11:25PM (#999003) Journal

          In the Deb world, we have gdebi. No tech needed on the end user's part. Just associate files with gdebi, and click the file from any GUI file browser. No need for invoking a CLI, no need to understand configure, make, or install. Just download a .deb file, click it, and away you go, the proud owner of some random malware installation.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:00AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:00AM (#999034)

          Good luck with the dependenciea.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:56PM (21 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:56PM (#998979)

        Modern (repo-based) package managers in Linux act as a soft walled garden. While it's possible to add applications manually, it involves a lot more technical know-how about Linux, especially since it often means compiling from source. Otherwise you only have whatever programs the distro maker deigned fit to compile and package for that version. This especially works to crush old (but perfectly functional) and niche choices. Some people compile their work for a few specific distros, but this has its own problems. Have a Red Hat derivative, not Ubuntu? Guess you're out of luck. Almost as bad: if the last package build is against an old distro version.

        I completely disagree. Especially with the ability to add [linuxhint.com] repositories [fedoraproject.org], and the rise of tools like FlatPak [flatpak.org].

        What's more, with autoconf [wikipedia.org], building from source requires only literacy and the ability to follow simple instructions.

        If you can figure out how to post a comment on SN, you should have no problem building and installing software on Linux/BSD from source.

        In fact, the process is so simple:

        extract <source>
        (which can be done via the GUI)
        cd <source-dir>
        ./configure
        make
        make install

        It's more complicated to send emails to multiple recipients than it is to build/install an app from source.

        And it's certainly simpler than many other tasks people perform all the time. Much simpler, in fact, than side-loading android apps, filing a tax return, wrapping a gift, separating laundry or baking a cake.

        That said, I'm in full agreement with George Carlin:

        Think about how dumb the average person is. Then realize that half of everyone else is dumber than that.

        Even so, anyone who can read at a second grade level [corestandards.org] should be able to build/install software without issue.

        There are certainly exceptions to this, like building/installing Diaspora [diasporafoundation.org], but most apps can be built/installed by just about anyone.

        Or do you claim that most people can't read at a second grade level? If that's been your experience, let me know where you are and I'll make sure never to go there.

        • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 25 2020, @11:28PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @11:28PM (#999007) Journal

          I wish you had been making this sales pitch for *nix 30 years ago, before W9x and WinNT took the market by storm.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @12:01AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @12:01AM (#999023)

            Who says I wasn't?

        • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:56AM (18 children)

          by jmorris (4844) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:56AM (#999050)

          Ok, decloaking long enough to debunk such utter fanboi rubbish.

          Have you actually tried build a non-trivial package this way? Almost always fails the first several passes as you try to figure out from the error messages which -devel packages you are missing. Then about even odds, assuming you aren't building a package on a distro it has already been packaged for, at least one major glitch will need to be tracked down and fixed. As soon as you hit anything like that you exclude 100% of non-technical users.

          Real world example. PCLinuxOS has never had libvirt and hasn't had qemu in several years. I needed, at minimum, virt-viewer as a must have to migrate to it from CentOS 6. It took two days to get enough of libvirt to build to get a working virt-viewer. To be fair it would have been a little simpler to just build a binary and stuff it in /usr/local. I took it from a Fedora srpm to a PCLinux source srpms and binary rpms of libvirt and the missing dependencies. And remember that one too, any non-trivial port will have dependencies as well, and a failure of any of them to build is the end of the road for normal users.

          Once I get some spare time I'm going to get a better port (the package with spicy still won't install, some remaining dependency nonsense) and qemu isn't ported in yet. Want to get the whole libvirt + qemu tree to a level where it can be submitted upstream.

          But none of this is the sort of thing end users will attempt.

          The real world path for end users of binary distros is unofficial generic repos where things are as statically linked as posssible. Thankfully many exist. LibreOffice has one, Brave has one, Adobe used to maintain one, and so on.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @02:23AM (11 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @02:23AM (#999064)

            Have you actually tried build a non-trivial package this way? Almost always fails the first several passes as you try to figure out from the error messages which -devel packages you are missing. Then about even odds, assuming you aren't building a package on a distro it has already been packaged for, at least one major glitch will need to be tracked down and fixed. As soon as you hit anything like that you exclude 100% of non-technical users.

            Yep. I sure have. And that can be a pain, too.

            Then again, non-technical users are unlikely to require a package like qemu. What's more, most packages non-technical users may want are likely in a binary repository.

            Then again, your argument is plugging FreeBSD Ports, which will download, build and install all dependencies before building the requested package. If you're not savvy enough to build qemu from scratch, perhaps you should switch to FreeBSD.

            That said, you picked an application (qemu) that has a tremendous number of dependencies which aren't normally installed on end-user systems. Something like Midnight Commander [midnight-commander.org] would have many fewer dependencies and would likely build without issue on most end-user systems.

            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 26 2020, @07:57AM (10 children)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 26 2020, @07:57AM (#999133) Journal

              It also depends on whether you want to use your computer as a tool, or whether the enjoyment that you get is from configuring the computer to be just as you want it.

              Many people don't want to have to compile things from the command line. That doesn't make them any less of a computer user, just perhaps not as geeky or technologically knowledgeable. On the other hand, many of us do enjoy the tinkering with a computer just as much as the using it do to useful work.

              • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:11AM (7 children)

                by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:11AM (#999137) Journal

                That doesn't make them any less of a computer user,

                Yes, it does, janrinok, and this is where your quixotic defense of systemd fails. Those of us who teach abstract reasoning, whether it be math, or logic, or even sociology, understand quite well how most of humanity struggles with reasoning taken out of the concrete level where their biological intuitions still serve them. They have no idea of inference or calculation, and thus it is for most users of computers, and, sadly, a large percentage of programmers. And if you do not understand the logic that your machine runs on, it is no longer your machine. You are a slave, janrinok, a cog in the machine using Windows or Systemd and trusting that nothing bad is going to happen. News: it already has.

                • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:14AM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:14AM (#999154)

                  You're such an asshole, Ari.

                  Don't you ever feel shame for the incredibly nasty and almost always uncalled for bullshit that you spew?

                  Every time you post, Ari we can all gauge your cruelty and your recklessness. Do not be a huge asshole any further, Aristarchus. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?*

                  *With apologies to Joseph Welch.

                  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday May 26 2020, @06:50PM (4 children)

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @06:50PM (#999331) Journal

                    Is there no safe space for Microsofties? Is there no where for them to go when triggered by nasty, vicious comments about systemd? Oh, the huge manatee!! It as if there has been a sudden disturbance in the force, with former nerds who once were thralls of Microsoft moving to Appledom, instead of toward the freedom of free software. Sad, really.

                    • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:00PM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @08:00PM (#999353)

                      AC you replied to here.

                      I first installed Yggdrasil Linux in 1993.

                      I've installed, deployed and administered more free software than you can imagine.

                      And yet, you're still an asshole. Which, I guess, means you like being compared to Joe McCarthy and, have no sense of decency.

                      How many communists^W "Microsofties" are there currently in the Defense Department^W^W^W on Soylent News?

                      Fuck off, jerk.

                      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:33AM (2 children)

                        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:33AM (#999437) Journal

                        Poor AC! I sense your suffering. It must truly suck to be you. Are you now, or have you ever been, a Microsoft Certified Software Engineer? Or, wait, was it Microsoft Certified Systems Enervator? Not, not quite: Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert.

                        Actually, just Microsoft, and "certifiable" in the same acronym is quite enough. I feel your pain, just typing these words. And, it is not only me. Looks to be official [theverge.com] now, what with all the admission of mistakes. And even some of the principals [winbuzzer.com] are copping to the error. If only SoylentNews ACs were as with the program! Alas, such is not to be, and we will have to listen to them whine and moan about "nasty" comments from old aristarchus. Sad, really.

                        • (Score: 3, Touché) by turgid on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:51PM (1 child)

                          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:51PM (#999932) Journal

                          I believe it was Minesweeper Certified Solitaire Expert. And we've had quite enough of experts.

                          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:56AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:56AM (#1000101)

                            And we've had quite enough of experts.

                            Yeah! So-called "experts" are *always* incompetent losers.

                            That's why Jake down at my local bar is doing my root canal next week. I have to wait until Saturday, as he has his regular job (garbage man, and a damn good one too!) and the super of my building is performing spinal fusion surgery on me next week.

                            Medical school! Fah! Waste of money!

                            I had my nine year-old run a new 220 line into the house for my brand new 3d printer. After the funeral, I'm going to make a huge statue of him with it.

                            Experts! Who needs 'em?

                • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:19PM

                  by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:19PM (#999198) Journal

                  You have made assumptions that are not supported by any evidence. You seem to think that I only use computers that have systemd inside them. Not so, I use, currently, 14 computers carrying out such tasks as a software defined radio for aeronautical transmissions, security functions inside the home and at remote locations, and editing items for SN, to name only a few. You see, I have learned how several init systems work in different types of computer, and as long as they continue to function I am quite content.

                  For some people the computer is a tool and in that regard it is no different from a lawn mower, can opener or bucket. It helps them in some aspect of their life and there is absolutely no need to know what speed the lawn mower blades rotate at, what kind of machine made the can opener, or the type of plastic used to make the bucket, just so long as they do the job that they are designed to do.

                  Others, myself included, do want to know how their computer works, how to program it to do tasks that it doesn't currently do, or how to change the hardware to improve its performance.

                  I do not believe that either type of person is a slave to the items that they use in everyday life. Are you claiming that you refuse to put fuel in your car unless you know the chemical formulae for each of the additives that it contains? Do you insist on knowing the type and genus of the flour that goes into cake that you have ever eaten? Do you demand to know what type of paper is used to wrap every product you have ever bought? No, I thought not.

                  You are a slave to your limited way of thinking, of believing that you have a set of particular skills that make your views essential reading. Others might not agree with you.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:08AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:08AM (#999153)

                Many people don't want to have to compile things from the command line. That doesn't make them any less of a computer user, just perhaps not as geeky or technologically knowledgeable. On the other hand, many of us do enjoy the tinkering with a computer just as much as the using it do to useful work.

                Absolutely a fair point.

                To use a car analogy, some folks just love to tweak their vehicles with custom/high performance engine parts or similar. Should we blame the auto manufacturer because I can't just slap a turbocharger onto their stock engine?

                Some folks don't even want to change their own oil.

                As you pointed out, that doesn't make the tinkerer a better human being, nor does it make the person who just wants it to go a lesser one.

                At the same time, at least these days, most *nix distributions have decent package management systems with extensive base and "extras" repositories, as well as specialty repositories for many things, which provide most of the apps an end-user might want/need as seamlessly (with automated dependency resolution) installed binary packages.

                Generally, there are also GUI interfaces to those package management systems which simplify the process further.

                However, there are some situations where the app developer does not provide binaries, either at all, or not for the particular platform you might be using.

                That is *sometimes* addressed by third-party package distribution sites, accessed interactvely (allowing you to download .deb/.rpm/.pkg archives)

                There are also binary packages (The Oracle Java SDK comes to mind) which have you download an archive, extract it and run a provided installation script.

                Where binaries are unavailable, or the version available in the standard repositories aren't of a recent enough vintage for your requirements, building from source may be the *only* way to get what you want/need. I'd point out that this can be true for proprietary operating systems as well.

                I won't address Flatpak [flatpak.org] here, as it's use is still fairly limited, although that can be a binary distribution path as well.

                I'm sure you're aware of all of the above, but I wanted to lay all this out to make the point that these days building from source is usually not required. And the vast majority of users will never need to build anything from source.

                However, if someone needs or wants something specific where binaries for their platform is unavailable, building from source (unless *many* dependencies are not currently installed -- which is unlikely for a user looking to install something to complement their existing environment) usually isn't difficult or especially taxing.

                In such cases, it may be too difficult for some users to accomplish, but how should that be addressed? Shall we punish developers who can't or won't create binary packages for *your* platform/distribution? I think not. In such cases, it's incumbent on the user to work it out. I'd note that this is true for *all* platforms, FOSS and proprietary.

                In fact, should someone want or need a package that isn't available as a binary, it's probably something arcane or rarely used -- or it would be included in one of the binary repositories.

                To further clarify my point, I refer you to the post [soylentnews.org] to which I *originally* responded [soylentnews.org], to which I strenuously disagreed.

                I was then presented with a not-very-likely scenario [soylentnews.org] (at least not one that would be faced by that vast majority of end-users -- his example qemu is in most binary repositories anyway) by jmorris, which led me to the response which you thoughtfully commented upon.

                I include those references as, IMHO, the context is meaningful here, and OP [soylentnews.org] is just being a whiny little bitch.

                Your thoughts?

                • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 26 2020, @03:01PM

                  by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 26 2020, @03:01PM (#999223) Journal

                  I think we are actually agreeing with each other. Those that need to build software from scratch will know how to do it, for the others the repos usually suffice.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @04:03AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @04:03AM (#999087)

            jmorris is not dead? Who knew? So, the win-get boogaloo, for you, then?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:15PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:15PM (#999195)

            I do Linux system administration as part of my job, so I can Frankenstien almost any combination of software on most Linux distributions. But for most people who might want to use Linux, I think the path of least pain is an Ubuntu flavor or maybe Linux Mint, because then chances are good that anything you want is already in the default repositories.

            OpenSuse Linux, Void Linux, PCLinuxOS, and dozens are other options are fine if you can do everything you want with the software in their default software repositories. I mean no disrespect to those distributions, their contributors, or their happy users. But if you want to use something that's available out of the box on Ubuntu but not on Void Linux or PCLinuxOS, chances are good it's going to be a real pain.

            Side note - while universal installer systems like Snaps, Flatpak, and AppImage are interesting, I think the real future of that kind of system might be WebAssembly. It gives you the same universal installability as Snaps, Flatpak, or AppImage and also the same security sandboxing, plus cross-operating-system installability plus dynamic linking of dependencies plus cross-programming-language library sharing. That is, someone could write a library for manipulating movie files in Swift and compile it to WebAssembly and someone else could write Python code to use that library and compile it to WebAssembly. The people calling WebAssembly/WASM the future of computing may not be wrong.

            • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday May 26 2020, @09:53PM

              by jmorris (4844) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @09:53PM (#999391)

              WebAssembly: Write Once, Run Everywhere for people too young to remember why Java didn't take over the world with the exact same pitch.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @03:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @03:41PM (#999244)

            Cuts down on the riffraff.

          • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:01PM (1 child)

            by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Tuesday May 26 2020, @10:01PM (#999395) Journal

            jmorris lives and aristarchus cries either a tear of sadness or joy.

            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by SomeGuy on Monday May 25 2020, @10:37AM (8 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Monday May 25 2020, @10:37AM (#998805)

    At least with Stacker, they changed the name to DoubleSpace.

    No, DoubleSpace included with DOS 6 was based on Vertisoft DoubleDisk: https://winworldpc.com/product/doubledisk/2.5 [winworldpc.com]

    The lawsuit with stacker was over patents, because the software did about the same thing. (IBM PC DOS 7.00, however, did bundle Stacker)

    Also, having another application installer for Windows is hardly a big deal. Back in Windows 3.x/9x days everyone had to write their own installers. I don't know what that "store" they are talking about is either, but I don't doubt some shitheads have already gotten brainwashed in to thinking that is the only way to obtain and install applications. The simple fact that it is owned, operated, and controlled by Microsoft automatically makes it a failure. Give me software on good old fashioned CD-ROM (or floppy disk!), where distribution is not under Microsoft's thumb.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Booga1 on Monday May 25 2020, @02:25PM

      by Booga1 (6333) on Monday May 25 2020, @02:25PM (#998826)

      The simple fact that it is owned, operated, and controlled by Microsoft automatically makes it a failure. Give me software on good old fashioned CD-ROM (or floppy disk!), where distribution is not under Microsoft's thumb.

      True, Microsoft has a very, very bad track record with their digital content offerings:

        - MS Plays for Sure: dead, access to content lost.
        - MS eBooks: dead, content forcefully deleted from people's machines.
        - MS Games for Windows Live: dead, some games playable with workarounds.

      Maybe it's just me, but I think I'm starting to see a pattern.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:15PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @05:15PM (#998882)

      A friend of mine worked for Stac, at the time.

      MS did copy Stacker, they were sued, and lost.

      MS then counter-sued Stac. MS's claim was that Stacker would not have been possible to have been created without reverse engineering MS software to see how to create a terminate and stay resident application, as MS had never documented this, and used this functionality to exclusively give their own products an edge in functionality. MS won this lawsuit.

      Meanwhile MS was telling anti-trust investigators that they had no hidden apis, and that any 3rd party had access to the same interfaces and information as MS teams developing software for DOS had.

      MS wasn't happy with the amount awarded from Stac (1/7 what Stac won from MS for MS's outright theft) for using undocumented DOS features. They weren't even satisfied that they got away with telling completely opposite narratives to the court when they sued Stac, and to anti-trust investigators. So, they purchased Stac, fired all the employees, and shut down the business-- out of spite.

      MS, a truly evil company run by truly evil men.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:33PM (#998970)

        A friend of mine worked for Stac, at the time.

        Really? You've got a friend? What's that like?

      • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday May 25 2020, @09:47PM (1 child)

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @09:47PM (#998976) Journal

        Were TSRs really secret? Back in the day several computer magazines had series of articles on how they worked and how to write one. When I was 16 I worked on a TSR in my summer holidays. There was a library you could get called Tesseract as well to help you write one.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @10:28PM (#998989)

          Different AC, but the counter-suit wasn't over TSR itself, but how they got the status. Most programs have to wait until CONFIG.SYS is loaded to become TSR, however Microsoft and people who copied them instead loaded using the preload header directive to be started by MSDOS.SYS automatically.

      • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 25 2020, @11:32PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @11:32PM (#999013) Journal

        Terminate and stay resident was a microsoft invention? Sounds like utter BS to me. I'd have to research, but I'm really sure that I saw and used TSR before I ever heard of Microsoft.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:30AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:30AM (#999045)

          As I mentioned in a different post [soylentnews.org] it wasn't the TSR that was the issue, it was how the particular method used to load earlier.

      • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Tuesday May 26 2020, @12:59PM

        by SomeGuy (5632) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @12:59PM (#999188)

        MS did copy Stacker, they were sued, and lost.

        Right. I couldn't find a detailed reference off hand, but what I recall reading was that Microsoft evaluated Stacker and saw its code. When they decided to not go with Stacker, they re-implemented some of the, apparently patented, bits they saw in to their enhanced customized DoubleDisk.

        Then hard drives started getting bigger and made it all irrelevant :P

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Improbus on Monday May 25 2020, @01:55PM (1 child)

    by Improbus (6425) on Monday May 25 2020, @01:55PM (#998820)

    All my new builds run Linux and Windows is just for work or legacy applications. Eventually I plan to just have just 1 Windows virtual machine. Just FYI, if you don't want to use or don't trust Microsoft's package manager try this one: https://chocolatey.org/ [chocolatey.org].

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @06:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @06:48AM (#1000438)

      I did that. Partitioned to Ubuntu 16.04 when it was new and shiny. Never bothered to go back to Windows.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Monday May 25 2020, @03:45PM (1 child)

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @03:45PM (#998840) Journal

    sideloading apps on Windows 10.

    F*** this concept sideways running.
     
    I put up with that absolute BULL**** on Android, I'm not going to do so on my desktop.
     
    (Yes yes, Linux etc etc. I run both TYVM.)

    --
    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
    • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Tuesday May 26 2020, @04:04PM

      by meustrus (4961) on Tuesday May 26 2020, @04:04PM (#999263)

      Can you clarify? As far as I know, "sideloading" would mean transferring between two local devices, rather than "uploading" or "downloading" which must go over the internet. I've only ever heard of "sideloading" applications on platforms where standard security policy only allows "downloads" from verified sources; in that context, "sideloading" is actually the installation method that restores personal freedom to put our own shit on our own devices. And, uh, a potential hole in that security model. But Windows' security model for app installation is basically Do Whatever The Fuck You Want, and Maybe We'll Throw Up An Annoying Authorization Prompt. So...what exactly is the problem? I must be missing something.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 2) by progo on Monday May 25 2020, @06:08PM

    by progo (6356) on Monday May 25 2020, @06:08PM (#998891) Homepage

    IMO, Windows needs a package manager with the following attributes:

    • The system is endorsed by the Windows project itself -- this is the one true package manager.
    • After appropriate warnings, the user can install any desired arbitrary 3rd-party hosted package repository and their signing keys. Paid x.509 certificates signed by untrustworthy certificate authorities are not required.
    • The package manager handles checking for updates; packages aren't allowed to install their own updaters; there is one unified and configurable subsystem for informing the end-user or sysadmin that package updates are available.

    As far as I can tell, what's described in this post's summary is useless. I don't know much about Chocolatey, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's most of the way there and just needs the "one true package manager" endorsement.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Monday May 25 2020, @07:13PM (3 children)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 25 2020, @07:13PM (#998904) Journal

    I think this is the default repository for packages, but I'm not 100% sure.

    https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifests [github.com]

    Some names in there caught my eye. iTunes, Chrome, Emacs, Octave, LibreOffice, 7-zip, notepad++, MalwareBytes, BeyondCompare, Putty ...

    (Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft. Yes, I know that makes my opinion invalid.)

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:29PM (#998967)

      (Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft. Yes, I know that makes my opinion invalid.)

      My brother does as well (actually, I did too a couple decades ago) and his (as well as your) opinion isn't invalid *because* he (or you) work for Microsoft.

      Rather your opinions are colored by your life experience, not who your employer might be. Although working for Microsoft is part of that life experience.

      To test that hypothesis, please provide your opinion as to the ReactOS [reactos.org] project.

      I'd be interested to compare yours with my brother's.

      Perhaps I might even get an academic paper out of it. :)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:42PM (#998975)

      Nearly 20 years ago I used to work for Sun Microsystems doing the Companion CD for Solaris. Welcome to the club.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2020, @01:22PM (#999200)

      Your username suggests you are a woman, and you work for Microsoft. Could you please also do me a favor and submit a few patches to the systemd project? Then just by introducing yourself and listing your work in Linux community gatherings you could cause our most toxic members to spontaneously combust.

  • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2020, @09:15PM (#998955)

    Are you enjoying COVID-19, Boomers? I hope you are, because your political response to the pandemic has completely destroyed the economy. Did we really need a Great Recession in 2008 caused by you, and a Great Lockdown in 2020 caused by you? Are you proud of yourselves for creating an economic depression even worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s? Are you proud of yourselves, Boomers? Your legacy will be economic ruin for all. You don't care as long as you Boomers continue to receive your pensions. You Boomers don't have jobs. You Boomers don't create jobs. You Boomers don't do anything for anyone ever. You Boomers are utterly worthless parasites. You don't care about anybody except yourselves. Everybody except you is forced at gunpoint to wear a facemask while you Boomers sit in your giant mansions laughing and waiting to die when you will be buried with your fortunes so nobody will ever touch your precious money.

    Boomers did COVID-19.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @06:42AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @06:42AM (#1000436)

    Stinking rotting cesspool of crap that it is.

    Just wondering.

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