Detection of electrical signaling between tomato plants raises interesting questions:
UAH's [University of Alabama in Huntsville] Dr. Yuri Shtessel and Dr. Alexander Volkov, a professor of biochemistry at Oakwood University, coauthored a paper that used physical experiments and mathematical modeling to study transmission of electrical signals between tomato plants.
[...] "Dr. Volkov is a prominent scholar in biochemistry. Once, we were talking about the electrical signal propagation though the plant's stem and between the plants—plant communication—through the soil," Dr. Shtessel says. "I suggested building an equivalent electrical circuit and a corresponding mathematical model that describes these processes."
The mathematical modeling is based on ordinary and partial differential equations. Dr. Shtessel was in charge of building the models, running the simulations and generating the plots.
[...] Plants generate electric signals that propagate through their parts. When the roots of tomatoes are experimentally isolated from each other with an air gap, the electrical impedance of the gap is very large.
"The electrical signals won't go through this gap," Dr. Shtessel says. In that experiment, communication between plants via their roots was prevented, as was discovered by Dr. Volkov.
However, when the plants are living in common soil, experiments conducted by Dr. Volkov found that the ground impedance is not very large and they can communicate by passing electrical signals to each other through the Mycorrhizal network in the soil.
Maybe there is something to the "Tree of Souls" in Avatar?
Journal Reference:
Alexander G. Volkov et al. Underground electrotonic signal transmission between plants [open], Communicative & Integrative Biology (2020). (DOI: 10.1080/19420889.2020.1757207)
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday July 11 2020, @08:46AM (15 children)
The original sci article is free access.
Unlike the phys.org FA, the sci one says (with my emphasis):
So far, nothing about the "Tree of Souls" in Avatar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Saturday July 11 2020, @01:26PM (1 child)
What is not clear to me is whether this sentence is specific about the experimental setup (as in, it is confirmed that the observed communication is not though one of those means, but really is electrical), or if it is indeed a general statement (as in, it is proved that those plants don't communicate at all thorough those other channels).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday July 11 2020, @01:40PM
Apologies for repeating myself, but "Do RTF-DOI-A".
Otherwise, the quoted passage says "It proves that the fast electrotonic signal transmission..." (and says nothing about the "Tree of Souls" in Avatar or any other forms of communication, it doesn't even say that they don't exist).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Rupert Pupnick on Saturday July 11 2020, @02:14PM (11 children)
The sci article doesn’t make much sense either. Could you replicate the experiment based on the details of the paper? I couldn’t. Some kind of schematic showing where the stimulus is applied and where the response was measured would be extremely helpful.
Or how about a control configuration in which you run the same test between the two plant pots— but without the plants— to determine how the system behaves without living plants in it. The step responses pictured don’t seem unusual at all.
And what’s this supposed breakthrough about electrical signals not passing through a high impedance gap? Is that unexpected? Are you kidding me?
The differential equations they make reference to in another paper are nothing more than good old I= C dv/dt applied to a resistor/capacitor ladder network that supposedly models plant tissue.
It’s total junk science, brought to you by none other than phys.org.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 11 2020, @02:49PM (10 children)
It's not like a sciency article needs to be a patent application, with all the method explained until "those skilled in the art" can repro without further instructions - that's what the reference section [tandfonline.com] is for.
Speaking for myself, whatever I read from those references was from idle curiosity about what the heck is electrotonic potential.
The purpose of my comment was to point out the phys.org FA and the original FA are saying different things and that's where I stop - no intention to repro, much less to validate or even discuss the issue. Electrocution of plants is not a kink in which I indulge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:04PM (5 children)
I can imagine there would be MANY people interested in reproducing these results - they could have a big impact in our understanding of plant communication. Studying these electrical signals may eventually lead to a radical change in the way farmers monitor and manage crops.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:18PM (1 child)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissive about those who have this kink, I have some different ones and I don't expect all the others would enjoy mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:59PM
If they involve Mads Rafferty we might be interested. :)
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:56PM
And maybe that crazy cat lady who talks to her plants isn't so crazy after all?
(Score: 3, Funny) by choose another one on Saturday July 11 2020, @04:43PM (1 child)
Only if we can decode the signals. We have known about tomatoes "screaming" for years, we just don't know what they are saying.
I really really really want someone to figure this out, mostly because I am gonna love it if their distress call is "vegans are coming", then I am gonna celebrate with filet steak and foie gras - if I can stop laughing for long enough to eat it.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @07:20PM
Even if we could start decoding it would take us awhile to ketchup.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Rupert Pupnick on Saturday July 11 2020, @04:44PM (3 children)
Well, I mostly agree with you except in the matter of the purpose of scientific publication. I thought the whole point of publishing a scientific paper was to forge consensus among researchers, and one of the main ways in which this happens is by making it possible for other researchers to replicate the results. I didn’t find the reference section to be particularly helpful in that regard, but maybe you had more patience looking through it than I did.
But really, the questions I’m asking here are very basic and fundamental to an electromagnetic communications link: what’s the power level and directivity of the transmitter, and what’s the sensitivity and bandwidth of the receiver? In the specific case of the paper, how does the application of an external stimulus address address any of these questions?
If indeed great strides have been made in the understanding of inter-plant communication, maybe the journalists at phys.org could give us an overview of where we are, and why this particular paper is worthy of citation.
So really, I’m left to conclude that there is no intention whatsoever to give readers an understanding of what’s going on here. And quite possibly, the reason for that is that it’s junk science.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @05:28PM (1 child)
Purpose of publishing,
Is precluding the proverbial perishment,
And providing possibility of protracted provisionmet.
Thus persons printing promulgate.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Rupert Pupnick on Saturday July 11 2020, @08:37PM
There once was a poster named Nonymous
Whose quantity of posts were gironomous
Some posts that you’ll see
Will fill you with glee
Too bad they’ll never be eponymous
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday July 12 2020, @08:29AM
Without answers to those, any claims of electrical anything are basically akin to scientology.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Funny) by linkdude64 on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:03PM
You think souls grow on trees? What are you, an idiot?
...They grow on vines.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @09:11AM (3 children)
Heyyy sugar look at those big flowers you got there! I bet you gon make some nice juicy bubble fruits out of these baby. How about we call the bee and make’em tomatoes happen?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @10:05AM
That's an interesting question. Modded accordingly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @02:19PM
Your wages for this pay period will be garnished indefinitely due to your failure to pay child support for all the baby tomatoes from last month.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @03:06PM
Tomatoes are actually pollinated by small flies and wasps more often than bees.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday July 11 2020, @01:07PM
It's now illegal to uproot barely sprouted tomato plant seeds, because they have a soul since they can communicate with mummy tomato.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Saturday July 11 2020, @02:36PM
It turns out that tomatoes are sentient, and now they are out to kill everybody!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080391/ [imdb.com]
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday July 12 2020, @04:15PM
corals watch the moon, trees have a welfare system, tomato plants send "im having a groovy day" signals underground.
ill leave these here:
the secret life of plants
eat the sun
adaptation