from the is-crime-data-report-trustworthy? dept.
I imagine most people here already know the stats, it's nothing new, but I found it interesting to review.
Many Americans Are Convinced Crime Is Rising In The U.S. They're Wrong:
"People estimated their risks for a whole host of bad-news life events — robbery, burglary, job loss and losing their health insurance. But the survey didn't just ask respondents to rate their chances: It also asked whether those things had actually happened to them in the last year.
And that combination of questions revealed something important about American fear: We are terrible at estimating our risk of crime — much worse than we are at guessing the danger of other bad things. Across that decade, respondents put their chance of being robbed in the coming year at about 15 percent. Looking back, the actual rate of robbery was 1.2 percent. In contrast, when asked to rate their risk of upcoming job loss, people guessed it was about 14.5 percent — much closer to the actual job loss rate of 12.9 percent."
[...] "In 2019, according to a survey conducted by Gallup, about 64 percent of Americans believed that there was more crime in the U.S. than there was a year ago. It's a belief we've consistently held for decades now, but as you can see in the chart below, we've been, just as consistently, very wrong."
Like I said, more of the same, but might be worth a discussion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @11:47AM
PlayStation 5 launch causes crime rates to plummet to near zero.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Saturday August 08 2020, @11:54AM (9 children)
What's a crime? If anyone owns a smartphone or audio home assistant, they are being electronically raped up the ass right now, and they are used to it.
Crimes like physical burglary are old-fashioned.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by r1348 on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:39PM (3 children)
Edgelord award of the day.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Bot on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:24PM (2 children)
OTOH I bet their testicles that they didn't include things like the libor scandal in their estimation of "crime".
In fact given that at AFAIK three different countries (italy spain and england) kept secrets on the documentation the respective governments used to justify fighting covid 19, I'd say the victims of crime this year is like 99% of the population.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by r1348 on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:05AM (1 child)
Italy released all documentation yesterday.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:01AM
I know Conte released PARTIAL documentation after a row with the TAR (administrative court) and that the decisions in Alzano and Nembro are still under wraps. Considering what emerges from the partial documentation (lockdown as a purely political act just like all other 'emergency' measures of the soviet republic of italy) it's either:
A- the omissis (unreleased stuff) contain even graver scandals
B- the omissis are relatively harmless and will be released to troll those protestors (very tame on part of the political right) that ask for glasnost.
ofc for the mainstream media the responsibility of Conte as the executor of a worldwide plan against his own task force judgement is secondary news.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Immerman on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:00PM (3 children)
I believe wage-theft is also climbing, and has been for years. As I recall it already far exceeds all other forms of theft combined - but since it's not considered criminal behavior it doesn't get counted, or punished.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:15PM (2 children)
No that's legal now, they just call it tax reform - reduce tax on capital gains (non-earned income) and add the difference to the national debt for the shmucks to pay later.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Immerman on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:38PM (1 child)
That's also a problem, but has nothing to do with wage theft.
Wage theft is when your terms of employment says you are supposed to be paid X amount based on the time and/or results of your work, but your boss pays you less than that. Are you pressured to work overtime without reporting it? Wage theft. Are you supposed to be paid Y amount plus tips, but your boss instead pays you nothing so long as tips exceed Y amount? Wage theft. Etc, etc, etc.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @03:43PM
It's customary to make up the shortfall in printer paper.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:45PM
Maybe they don't count the white collar shit, which is like bacteria, it outnumbers our own cells.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Insightful) by RedGreen on Saturday August 08 2020, @11:59AM (36 children)
you are bombarded with false information by useless lying sacks of shit spreading fear for their goal of obtaining and keeping power on a daily basis. It is everywhere you look add into it the total bias against any kind of rational scientific look at a problem by them "liberals and socialists" trying to distort the facts by using the scientific methods to try and do some good for society. In short Americans are selfish morons who deserve just about everything they get for being such gullible fools. I mean really that asshole Trump still has close to 40% approval rating, what does he have to do, get a million or more killed with his incompetence before them idiots will wake up.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:58PM (11 children)
Fear of crime is used for political motivation all the time, especially in HOAs.
I moved from Miami to a smaller town, the HOA (of 100 homes spread out over 3 miles of internal roads) was stirring the "crime is rising" pot about the neighborhood. I brought up: "we own our roads, we could put in an access control gate" - statistically, in Miami and similar cities, access controlled neighborhoods experience a dramatic drop in crime when the gates are installed.
Turns out, when pressed for "what are our actual crime stats" all the HOA president could come up with was two instances of kids stealing stuff from open garages - over the past 5 years. Now, 2 years later, a random home invasion assault happened in a nearby neighborhood - put an elderly couple in the hospital. If their neighborhood had had an access control gate, that crime probably would have happened somewhere else instead. But, at what cost? That was a one-time event in the 50 year history of the suburbs out there - to access control all the neighborhoods for that whole period would have increased property taxes by 10-20% for the entire time.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:28PM
The White House has access control and crimes are committed there all the time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:35PM (9 children)
I agree with you: at what cost? We need to measure the net cost and benefit of our decisions. We measure the net cost and benefit of that kind of decision, and choose accordingly. We measure the net cost and benefit of flying in airplanes, and despite the risk of dying a flaming death, fly anyway. We measure the net cost and benefit of driving, running the risk of dying a horrible death or suffering the lifelong disability that happens to tens of thousands of people every year, but drive anyway.
Somehow, though, when it comes to nuking our global economy, throwing several hundred millions of people who just climbed out of poverty back into want, and causing a bevy of attendant ills, we just do it because of the fear, the FEAR!
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:24PM
Not fear for me.
The infrastructure of office/cube that enforces boss/worker division is absent in my house. The Leadership (at my workplace) has shown itself to be a Fwd Fwd Fwd machine, 16 layers deep, who's main role is to create new Leadership layers that elevate non-productive employees and provide additional Fwd'ing prowess to the Leadership higher up.
(Score: 5, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Saturday August 08 2020, @03:12PM (7 children)
All comrades are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Hundreds of millions of people live in poverty today, as they did yesterday, years and centuries ago, and in the opinion of those not in poverty this situation is inevitable and will continue for years and centuries into the future. A few more or less is just irrelevant, if you're not the one trying to sleep in a home infested with pests and disease, going to great lengths for water to drink for the day, etc. Clue: the people who make the decisions aren't the ones that brush away insects from their faces at night and spend hours just attending to basic necessities of life every day.
The people who make the decisions see chaos (like the COVID response) as opportunity, not to eradicate poverty, but to become richer and more powerful. If a few hundred million people slip deeper into poverty, that boosts the relative power of those who are not in poverty - it's a net win, for the decision makers.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:06PM (6 children)
I agree with everything you wrote.
The rest of us who are not decision makers really must stop taking our cues from them, exactly because they are manipulating public opinion for their own benefit. It does not serve any of us to submit to their selective outrage porn, which pits us against each other. Rather, we ought to be phlegmatic in general. If we can stop savaging each other like good little puppets on strings we can progress; if not, we'll wind up coming to blows whether we want to or not, because the larger currents of social unrest will sweep us all away.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:22PM (4 children)
You'rea moron promoting death by touting the rebellious ideology of the US over proper medical advice.
Go fuck yourself shill and/or traitor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:40PM (1 child)
Hey! You can't talk to Phoenix666 like that! Even if it is true!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:01PM
You both walked right into my trap and proved me right. Cheers.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:00PM (1 child)
Thank you for helping me make my case.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:06PM
(He thinks he's winning! Isn't that cute!)
In the Words of Gordon Lightfoot (he's Canadian, you know):
♫Sometimes, I think it's a shame, that I get feeling better when I'm feeling no pain.♫
And
♫Sometimes, I think it's a sin, when I feel like I'm winning but I'm losing again.♫
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:42PM
Words of wisdom from one of the puppets.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:14PM (2 children)
B-b-b-b-but if crime isn't constantly getting worse, how can we be persuaded to vote for politicians who promise to get tough on crime?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:27PM
Send in the Feds, he's out of control. Stop resisting. Sir, why are you resisting? *taze* Calm down, Sir. *takes him away*
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:33PM
You know who has low crime? Saudi Arabia. Singapore. Two things both of these countries have in common: extremely economically disparity, and, extremely tough on crime.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by stack on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:49PM (5 children)
But most of the false information is coming from the media themselves in their "Orange Man Bad" stance. They will lie just to make Trump look bad. They twist numbers and statistics daily to say what they want them to say. It makes scientists look incompetent when the news media companies bring out unqualified morons to say "SCIENCE!" when it isn't actual science. It's why we don't see proper virologists on the news giving us information, rather we see TV quacks who say whatever the news bias of the day wants them to say. When a "published article" matches what they want, they advertise the heck out of it. When actual science says that article is wrong and retracts the article, it's rare they even mention it but they certainly don't apologize for their mistake. The news companies are worse then the conspiracy theorists on social media!
The news companies WANT you to be afraid, because you are more likely to keep tuning in. Then they can sell more eye-balls to their advertising group. It's a common ploy to screw with poll numbers just to lift one side "polling" higher than the other to force more spending with them. They are absolutely loving the fear that they can spread with 2020 and they don't care how many they kill because no one will ever hold them responsible for it. They don't care how many people they can be directly linked to deaths because of inaccurate reporting just so long as the bad orange man isn't president anymore.
As for the perception of crime, I understand that for most people crime hasn't actually gone up. But where I live, there's a lot more people (of all colors and races) that respect the police so its no surprise that these leftist morons taking advantage of real societal issues just so they can loot everything hasn't had an impact here. That's not true elsewhere. And if you are watching social media and the news for information, then all you might see is that over a hundred children killed in Philly this year alone from violent crimes, or that there are more shootings in a month in Portland than in decades combined, or that New York shootings and homicides are surging. And that's not even mentioning how bad it is in Chicago. Links for all that below. But as someone who has friends who live in downtown Chicago and New York, all of them are saying that it's a heluva lot worse then what is on the news. They have all been victim of or direct witness of assaults during these protests. One friend in New York, the protest attempted to light his apartment building on fire after looting the stores on the ground level. All the news said was that the store had some damage in the protest that night because it didn't fit their narrative. Had that fire not been put out, a lot of people could have died that night. No wonder why people are fleeing these cities!
So I agree, it's no shock people think crime is up everywhere when there is civil unrest in some places which gets wide coverage by a news media that wants people to be afraid of their specific narrative and doesn't give all the facts. But I don't think America is nearly in as bad of a position as those same people want us to be in.
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/08/06/100-children-have-been-shot-in-philadelphia-so-far-this-year-police-say/ [cbslocal.com]
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/portland-police-record-highest-number-of-death-investigations-in-single-month-in-more-than-three-decades.html [oregonlive.com]
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-deadly-shooting-16-year-old-killed-teen-fatally-shot-teenager-critically-injured/6336129/ [abc7ny.com]
Also, never been a Trump supporter. I hate how he's turned our country into a bad reality TV series of rabid-media all-consumed with him (even if it is fun to watch libtards like Maddow spiral into madness over him). I'd never vote for Biden because it is clear he is no longer competent to run the country. I disagree with so much of Jorgensen's stances but she's at least not crooked as hell from what I can tell.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:31PM (1 child)
> leftist morons taking advantage of real societal issues just so they can loot everything
Ah thanks for explaining the last. So it was all about the Adidas.
(Score: 2, Touché) by stack on Monday August 10 2020, @10:46PM
Or cheesecakes
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/seattle-woman-steals-cheesecake-protests-video/ [heavy.com]
or Valentino
https://summit.news/2020/08/10/chicago-riots-woman-shouts-i-cant-breathe-as-she-loots-luxury-clothing-store/ [summit.news]
or just looting for the sake of looting.
https://disrn.com/news/looters-vandals-take-over-chicago-shopping-district-after-police-involved-shooting/ [disrn.com]
This news is now so common it is just about daily. They don't actually care about the social problems, they just want free stuff.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @03:34PM (2 children)
Exactly. As the article suggests, the media spends 24/7 broadcasting the worst, and ignores the best. Politicians take advantage of that.
The mainstream news is not to be trusted, it's just that simple.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:11PM (1 child)
No news is to be trusted, period. There's no reason to qualify that with mainstream, tiny propaganda outfits are just as much propagandists as large propaganda outfits.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:12PM
That troll mod didn't come from me.
I'll point out that many of us have advocated reading your news from many news sources, around the world. Yes, they're all biased. Chinese news sources are going to hype Chinese policy, etc. But, if you're not reading any Chinese news, you're missing out on a lot of news.
The trick is to balance all of it. Some incident in say - ohhh - Beirut. The Russians have a slant, the Chinese have their point of view, Iran has their own ideas, and Israel offers their perspective. And, mainstream United States media mostly babbles meaninglessly while Trump suggests that terrists done it.
IMHO, Al Jazeera and Euro news sources nailed it early, and nailed it accurately: six years of negligence on the part of corrupt Beirut officials caused the blast. Add in a couple idiots at the port allowing welding operations to take place in proximity to flammables, which in turn were too damned close to the explosives. Big fucking boom, because no one could do their job properly.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @04:50PM (6 children)
And 1300 public health officials tell us that rioting doesn't impact COVID.
IF we are to be honest, we'd acknowledge that Democrats AND Republicans abuse science and that both take their ideology religiously rather than experimentally.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @04:59PM (3 children)
If we're honest, you're being disingenuous about being honest.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:13PM (2 children)
From the Democratic inverse of Rush: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html [cnn.com]
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @10:08PM
You will not topple them from their pedestal.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:07PM
Jesus, that's cynical, isn't it? They give themselves a free pass on protesting by categorizing it as a public health matter, and therefore co-equal to coronavirus. They have turned the hypocrisy dial to 11.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:31AM (1 child)
Had lots of protests here, cases stayed around 10-20 a day, up to a dozen hospitalizations at a time and a death a week. Mostly the protesters kept apart and were outside. Now we have kids partying and cases getting close to 50 a day as things deteriorate with the reopening.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:22AM
I'd also note that here in New York City, there have been protests every single day since the end of May.
And since then, cases, hospitalizations and deaths have continued to decline [nyc.gov].
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:52PM (7 children)
that asshole Trump still has close to 40% approval rating
Which is a fascinating thing to study, but I wish we didn't have to live in the lab. Isolation protocols are very weak.
However, all this stuff was already very well documented 90 years ago by Freud, Jung, Reich, etc... All we can do is confirm their findings, but contrarily, most people choose to remain in denial
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:14PM (6 children)
You're mystified because you're inhabiting a bubble projected by a different tribe. If you really wanted to understand, you'd approach it like an anthropologist and enter their perception bubble and live as one of them. You would have to check your own biases and assumptions at the door, so it can be a challenge. But you might discover that those people are neither stupid, deceived, or malign, and instead see things differently. It's a useful exercise if you care about living in a pluralistic democracy with multiple perspectives and creeds, but if you don't care about that keep on rowing us toward the crashing thunder of the falls--the current is taking you there anyways.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by crafoo on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:39PM (2 children)
"and instead see things differently"
Yes, I would say instead that they have different values. The authoritarian left values equality above freedom. The USA was built on freedom as a core value, over equality. Therefore, the left is engaged in their multi-generation plan to destroy the USA as we know it and replace it with a society that values equality over freedom. They could go live in Venezuela, a country much more aligned with their values. Instead they prefer the USA, because our society built prosperity, economic mobility, and scientific advancement.
Communism. Always 1 murder away from utopia.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:50PM
Therefore, the left is engaged in their multi-generation plan to destroy the USA as we know it and replace it with a society that values equality over freedom.
LOL! Good one!
You people are insane!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:29PM
That is absolutely correct if we're talking about Marxists. We all believe in equality, as in "equal justice under law" and "all men are created equal," but Marxists believe in equal outcomes regardless of effort, summed up in the famous, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Those people have infiltrated a great many institutions and organizations and are now having some success in driving the narrative.
But there are large portions of the left who are not Marxists. They want public health care and a more sustainable economy, but they have no interest in sending people to gulags or collectivization. They call themselves liberals, and believe in the same freedoms that the rest of America does. I know you weren't talking about them, but wanted call it back up because it's easy to forget these days.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:48PM (2 children)
Not "mystified" at all. Biology is remarkably simple. You are only projecting your own impulses
To say that white supremacy does not exist in the US is so totally absurd. And those stupid numbers! Absolutely meaningless. There is nothing to discuss with a fool that believes such a thing. It's hardly worth working up the fart.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:08PM (1 child)
I didn't say it didn't exist. I said it was minimal, and brought statistics from sources (ADL, Wikipedia) predisposed to inflate the numbers to back it up. You brought no numbers.
So, which is it? Do you believe numbers from those sources, or not? If you don't, that rather makes you anti-science, anti-facts, does it not? It seems that if you fly in the face of the evidence, then you are being foolish.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:09PM
I said it was minimal
Yeah! For you it would be! DUH! Your numbers are still meaningless bullshit in the real world, especially obvious to those that aren't white.
You shouldn't read that stuff. It's fogging your brain, making you believe things that aren't true
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:12PM (11 children)
The powers-that-be and their media buddies generally tend to portray things as worse than they are, or worsening, for the purpose of proposing themselves to fix the situation. This is nothing new, and it's brilliantly explained in Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent [wikipedia.org]. Not saying they actively make things worse to suit their purpose, but you can be sure as hell no politician is ever gonna go out and say "Nah, you're overreacting, it's really not that bad".
Also, there's the simple media magnifier effect: you only read about bad news in the newspapers. You never get to hear about major achievements that better people's lives, let alone minor achievements in people's day-to-day lives.
The more news you consume, the worse things look. It's plain logic. But I'll tell you what: look around you, and you'll see a lot of good things that never get reported: the local public park finally getting rehabilitated, your grandma's cancer test results improving, your colleague getting a promotion, your bicycle finally working right after days trying to find that squeak... It's also things like that that define how society is doing, not just what's in the news.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:26PM
Unless it fits their plan. They made no mention of Portland's descent into chaos until Trump sent federal police.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:32PM (6 children)
> Nah, you're overreacting, it's really not that bad
I think you'll find that is in fact very common. Why the fuck do you just talk out of your ass?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @03:36PM (5 children)
Well, why do you just hang on his posterior, and let him talk through you?
(Score: 1, Troll) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:16PM (4 children)
Cheap shots are cheap, and require no insight or wit. The truly hilarious thing is trolls are too dull to realize that every time they troll, what they're really doing is flashing a giant neon sign about how low brow and torpid they themselves are.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:11PM (3 children)
A hit! A palpable hit! You have sore wounded me, Phoenix666! I am hurt very badly by your insinuation. But perhaps the weapon you wield has more than one edge?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday August 10 2020, @11:12AM (2 children)
I don't think of you as a troll, but does this mean you are self-identifying as one?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 11 2020, @12:34AM (1 child)
The Troll that can be trolled is not really a troll.
Pseudo-Aristotle, On Trolling [cambridge.org].
There was an aristarchus submission [soylentnews.org] on this?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday August 11 2020, @01:30PM
老子死了.
Being a foil, a critic, or even a wag is fine, but being a troll (intentionally) is a waste of time. Dishing out troll mods instead of responding sucks more. Discourse is the way, not silencing.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:57PM
you can be sure as hell no politician is ever gonna go out and say "Nah, you're overreacting, it's really not that bad".
The prez is doing exactly that. It's all a "democrat hoax"
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:33PM
The media plays up the bad stuff because that's what sells. Capitalism in action. Local improvements are usually in the local section of the local paper, not the main section and certainly not shared and hyped across the Internet or national TV.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @04:07PM
It depends on what they are trying to achieve.
Witness the reaction US Government's to school shootings, or police violence, or Flint's water, or Covid.
It's very possible that things really aren't that bad for those subjects (often I think media does overblow topics sometimes)... but the specific point you say is not true.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by engblom on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:24PM (18 children)
In the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore, this with fear was a main topic. Now the conclusion is even statistically verified.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:41PM (17 children)
Michael Moore has moments of lucidity. He skewered the Bush administration in Fahrenheit 911. He was the only one on the side of the progressives who correctly understood Trump's victory in 2016. Even back in Roger and Me he hit the nail on the head.
These days his insight has become quite selective. Fine that he takes fear mongering with crime stats to task, but what about the fear mongering about white supremacy!!!, a force which is almost non-existent in modern America? How about the fear mongering about coronavirus? He's quite fine with those, it seems.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:39PM (4 children)
https://www.statista.com/chart/18892/number-of-hate-crimes-recorded-in-us-cities/ [statista.com]
It doesn't exist. I can't see it.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @04:52PM (2 children)
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/ [fakehatecrimes.org]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:19PM (1 child)
Of course! It's the fake moon landings argument. Carry on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:17PM
Is that you Jussie?
Or maybe just someone less famous but fabulously toxic? https://www.newsweek.com/racist-threats-attacks-that-rattled-california-university-campus-were-faked-police-say-1497533 [newsweek.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:53PM
Have you read the report cited in the article you linked to? It plays pretty fast and loose with definitions in order to support their thesis that "Hate Crime is Rising!!!" Page 18, they categorize the 2017 truck attack in Manhattan as a "hate crime," when it was nothing of the kind. The attacker drove onto the West Side bike path and mowed people down indiscriminately; five of his victims were childhood friends from Argentina who were taking a once-in-a-lifetime dream vacation to NYC. It was terrorism, plain and simple, but the authors of your report just call it a hate crime.
Again, on page 21, the authors call the mass shooting in Las Vegas a hate crime. Is shooting up a country music festival really a hate crime?
On page 22 they cite the "Pepe the Frog" meme as PROOF that hate is multiplying online, but the joke's on them because Pepe the Frog is a meme designed to mock people who find white supremacists under every bush and behind every tree.
Their entire approach to categorizing "hate online" is preposterous, citing key word searches on Google:
Did you catch that coy little admission at the end, "though some of those queries may have non-bigoted motivations." Basically, if a pack of reporters, a number of anti-hate crime advocates, and a handful of curious citizens search for those terms then it's 100% proof that hate online is skyrocketing. Look at the chart below that quote, where they point to a spike in searches for the term "kike" with the caveat:
In other words, because most people don't know how or don't bother to enter é in the search field, these credulous oafs who are the authors have concluded that "kike," a smear used against Jews that has not been used since the 70's, has made a resurgence and think they excuse themselves with a fig leaf of a footnote.
On page 11, the authors confess: "Because not all of the thirty cities surveyed broke down their data, and there was divergence among those that did, CSHE compiled
various data sets. In 18 cities, we arranged the 2018 bias motive data individually by city, and of those there were fourteen with
more specific breakdowns. " In other words, they artfully aggregated and broke out incidents that were not so categorized by the original reporting agencies, or, in layman's terms, they made it up.
We can go on and on with this shoddy, willful piece of "scholarship." They cite ADL for stats on anti-Semitic incidents, completely omitting the fact that the ADL makes bank on perceptions of anti-Semitism so they have a financial interest in over-reporting such. They cite Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) stats on hate crimes, whose data has been previously debunked because they read every incident from police reports that said, "African-American male mugged" as a hate crime, because it happened to a black person, not because the mugger was motivated by racial bias.
We shouldn't let ourselves be spoonfed by garbage studies like these.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:02PM (11 children)
what about the fear mongering about white supremacy!!!, a force which is almost non-existent in modern America?
HA! You're a funny guy! You working from home now that all the clubs are closed?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:27PM (10 children)
I don't know what reality you inhabit, but in this one the membership of the KKK is 3000 [adl.org]. The largest neo-Nazi group in the US has 400 [wikipedia.org] members. Even the panhandle of Idaho, a stronghold of Aryan Nations people in the 80's, has been largely rooted out.
The reality is white supremacists are now a bugbear used by the Democratic party and others to keep minorities in line and drive their agenda.
Meanwhile Antifa and BLM are rioting, committing arson, lobbing IEDs at federal officers, and seizing chunks of American cities to terrify businesses and residents. Does that constitute a threat to public order, or do they get a pass?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:48PM (9 children)
Ah, I see, you use statistics, not live the life. Well, it is true, from inside the plane, you can't see the tail is on fire. Happy landings!
Meanwhile Antifa and BLM are rioting, committing arson, lobbing IEDs at federal officers, and seizing chunks of American cities to terrify businesses and residents.
Yes, yes, of course they are...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:05PM (3 children)
So statistics are yet another thing that frightens and confuses poor Caveman Fustakrakich? Who knew? I guess he heard you could lie with statistics.
I have to say that I love the Caveman Fusta channel. You never know what crazy bullshit he'll pull next! Last episode, he redefined [soylentnews.org] the sociopathy/psychopathy thing (alert the DSM!), diagnosing thousands of people with psychopathy, and told us something was self-evident (though I guess we'll just have to wait to see what was supposed to be self-evident). Plus a guest appearance by aristarchus. Good times!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:24PM (2 children)
No fear...
I would never expect you to live in another man's shoes either. Just the nature of your psychosis. Your posts only clarify your condition
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:59PM (1 child)
Hopefully, you will never use that sentence again, until you've lived in another man's shoes. /Sarc
Funny how you can't express coherent thought, but there's red-bellied psychoses nesting in my posts. Quite the bird watcher!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:12PM
Heh, you're quite a rare bird! Well, maybe not rare, but you sing an interesting tune
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:57PM (4 children)
Sigh. So much for "believe the science" and "look at the facts," eh? Indeed, thank you for demonstrating how empty those slogans are.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:42PM
Words have no meaning to a true believer. They are just sounds, vocal ticks, magic spells they use to achieve the outcomes they desire.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:22PM (2 children)
There is no "science" in your stats. You're just talking racist trash. I fart in your general direction
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:10PM (1 child)
You should write to Wikipedia and the Anti-Defamation League and tell them what racist trash they are, because they compiled those numbers. Go ahead. It would be funny.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberry.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:00PM
That game is such bullshit. Numbers of public organizations speak nothing of white supremacy. It only indicates how openly they can operate.
You just will never understand, you can't. It's literally impossible. That's not a thing. I don't pretend to myself, but I can easily acknowledge what's in front of your damn face. What stands out is your utter arrogance and denial. You think you do understand, lying with statistics like they were made for you, so typical. The only way to respond is to say you are full of it. You can argue about it all you want, but you will still be full of it.
Heh, funny that for me, your reputation didn't precede you, didn't know you were in that circle, but in these few marvelous moments much has been clarified, thankyouverymuch
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:38PM (3 children)
It's one of those things where people can be both right and wrong at the same time thanks to statistics. First thing tho they measure feelings, which is always weird. But you can't tell people that what they are feeling is wrong. They feel what they feel. One can wonder why and a main culprit is most likely media. We get more and more "news" all day long and there is always crime happening somewhere and it gets reported so you get the illusion that crime is on the rise fed by the media around the clock. Secondly they are probably right in that crime is actually rising if one just looks at the amount of crime that is reported to the authority. That number tends to go up just cause there are more people around and more things that eventually become a crime. So correct again. You can see it in the graphs of the article tho that they don't measure crime, they measure crime per some pop unit. So as long as the pop growth is faster or greater then the crime growth then crime will appear to go down. So by the wonder of statistics both sides can be right and wrong at the same time.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 08 2020, @02:18PM (2 children)
So I take it you haven't actually looked at crime statistics [fbi.gov] in the US. Most have declined in absolute number as well as per capita.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:45PM (1 child)
Well! There ya go! *Three Strikes* and *Stop 'n Frisk* really do work!
Of course, no one will admit it, you know, because it's racist! Looks like any attempt to reduce crime will always appear racist
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:37PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @12:59PM (6 children)
You're already being robbed by Trump's Federal Reserves.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:46PM (5 children)
You're half right. The Fed belongs to no one. They are the Deep State (or the "1%" or "Illuminati," if you prefer). They are the real villain in all our stories. Most politicians are their creatures. For whatever else Trump is, he is not their creature because he does not need them.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:07PM (2 children)
For whatever else Trump is, he is not their creature because he does not need them.
Well, yeah, he's living off straight up mob money. His whole demeanor and deference to horrible peole indicates he is deep debt.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:31PM (1 child)
I heard he feasts off pies made with meat from the children of Central American immigrants. Also, he sacrifices kittens every full moon in a blood orgy held in the basement of the Whitehouse. He is practically Satan. But also Hitler.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:53PM
Two treats in one, babe, the perfect package for the 63 million Americans who love him. Hope they got their money's worth
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:25PM (1 child)
Hahahahha you're not wrong, just a moron ;)
Lololol trump skull fucked your brains out?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:32PM
Hahahahhaha you're not wrong, just a moron ;)
Lololol trump skull fucked your brains out?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @01:09PM (35 children)
And for nearly every year over the previous 30 years or so.
Curious to see what happens in 2020 and 2021, though. Usually people think crime is rising because the media does everything possible to make it look like crime is rising, even though it isn't. Make policing impossible, and crime will actually start to rise.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @03:42PM (23 children)
No. Allow citizens to defend themselves, their property, and their loved ones. If 1/2 of all homes in the neighborhood were guaranteed to have an armed citizen inside, how many burglars would attempt to break into those homes? What if it were 3/4 of all homes? How about all homes?
The highest crime rates are in those cities where the politicians fuck with second amendment rights the most.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:01PM (4 children)
Yeah well, when your gun crimes stats go off the charts it's prooooobably not because of gun restrictions.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:41PM
Citations needed for "gun crimes go off the charts".
1. The term "gun crime" is worthless, useless, misleading propaganda. The issue is CRIME, not "gun crime". Guns don't commit crimes. Criminals are happy to use a gun to commit a crime, but guns don't commit crimes.
2. Just like crime is a far lesser problem than most Americans believe it to be, so-called "gun crimes" are a far lesser problem than Americans perceive them to be.
For years, the CDC, SPLC, and others have hyped up "gun crime", to make you quiver in fear of guns. What does the FBI have to say on the subject?
https://www.facebook.com/TippingPointonOAN/videos/fbi-gun-violence-stats/974775459341498/ [facebook.com]
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls [fbi.gov]
If the gun lobby people were really interested in decreasing the number of people killed with firearms, they would simply STOP WORRYING about "assualt rifles" and concentrate on handguns. For every person killed with a rifle (of any sort) about 30 people are killed with a handgun.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:20PM (1 child)
Crimes are acts which are against the law. Lawful self-defense is not a crime and would have upward effect on crime stats.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:22PM
"WOULD NOT"
dammit
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:37PM
Let's find a middle ground. Like, permitting guns and banning SSRIs https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2019/09/37-mass-shooters-who-were-on-antidepressants/ [thoughtcatalog.com]
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday August 08 2020, @05:27PM (12 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:04PM (11 children)
many thieves won't take guns b/c it's a higher risk in many places. i.e. sometimes there's a higher charge for stealing the gun, then there's a higher charge for being in possession and selling, etc. not so much trouble to just steal cash and jewelry. easier to pocket too.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:22PM (4 children)
Not much money in most guns either - street value is retail price at best, usually way less.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:45PM (3 children)
Street value is usually about 1/10 the value of the weapon. Pawn shop value is only about 1/3 to 1/2 the value of the weapon, street value even lower. The exception is when an individual is looking for a murder weapon, or a gang is arming up for a gang war, then all bets are off. You might get $500 for a worthless cheap automatic pistol that sells for $200 anywhere in America.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:06PM (2 children)
Intrigues me how you know so much about criminal firearms sales. Hmm.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:39PM (1 child)
Yeah he talks about guns almost as much as a leftist. That's suspect.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @03:59AM
Everyone is suspect around there. Just about the only person I believe here anymore is when NCommander says something neat about computing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:14PM
true, most professional/experienced criminals go after jewelry. They won't go after big things like television, they don't try to steal cars (they will try to steal something small and expensive in the car). They want a quick getaway.
A gun is a mixed bag. You steal a piece of jewelry and someone sees you with it later you can say it belongs to you and it's harder to prove otherwise. Guns need to be registered, get reported stolen, all this makes them harder to resell so you have to discount their sale price, etc...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:30AM (4 children)
How many thieves have told you this?
Did you read a study that looked at whether thieves decline to steal guns or not?
Or are you just talking out of your ass?
I vote for the latter.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:11PM (3 children)
Ignoring that enough thieves may have told him so, we still have that the underlying argument is true. There are greatly penalties for stealing, selling, and carrying stolen weapons than there is for jewelry. And I strongly bet that police are going to get more worked up over $10,000 in stolen firearms on the street than in $10,000 in stolen jewelry or electronics, because you can't easily kill a police officer with a stolen wrist bracelet or TV.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @04:06PM (2 children)
And just as studies have shown that the death penalty (how much harsher can you get) is not a deterrent to committing murder, I'm not buying the story that harsher penalties for stealing guns (does that even exist?) deters thieves from stealing guns when they are available to steal.
GP needs provide some evidence* to be convincing. *Claiming* something is true isn't evidence.*
*Kind of like this for my claim:
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/stories/states-with-no-death-penalty-share-lower-homicide-rates [deathpenaltyinfo.org]
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states [deathpenaltyinfo.org]
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/study-international-data-shows-declining-murder-rates-after-abolition-of-death-penalty [deathpenaltyinfo.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:17PM
murder and what to steal are vastly different situations. people aren't usually in the throws of passion when they decide to steal a handbag, despite the anitpiracy videos claiming otherwise. deterrents work for less important things. i even doubt the finding of the death penalty not being a deterrent, as i think i would kill certain people if it wasn't for the whole manhunt, prison and death penalty thing.
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Monday August 10 2020, @03:56AM
And of course, there is a federal agency which specializes in tracking gun-related theft, smuggling, etc, the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) and makes a lot of firearm-related crimes, federal crimes [wklaw.com].
Stealing an expensive TV isn't going to trigger federal charges (except in relatively unusual circumstances like crossing state lines).
So then we're left with your assertion:
Compared to what? The kind of people who kill by impulse (which generally is the class of people who aren't deterred by murder, right?) generally don't face the death penalty.
And murder isn't comparable to theft. A lot more people steal stuff and steal a lot more often than people who murder. Sure, there's a few who aren't evaluating the risks of stealing stuff. But those who make a career of it (and what murderers do you know who make a career out of murder?) have a pretty good understanding of the risks. In particular, they often look for the easy marks. For example, looking for unlocked houses or vehicles, looking for valuables in plain view, etc. Theft of guns can be feasible, but the same thieves who are careful about taking extra chances probably are familiar with the risks of involving federal law enforcement in their activities (and the enhanced difficulty of selling stolen firearms).
Robbing dozens of houses of jewelry or electronics is going to put you on the radar of the local police or perhaps state level police. Robbing dozens of houses of guns is going to put you on the radar for the ATF.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:21PM (4 children)
The crimes that are increasing are hillbillies with guns assaulting people, white jerk lawyers and spouses brandishing guns, and white supremacists attacking Americans exercising their First Amendment Rights. All the increase is crime is due to conservative right-wing nut-jobs, "standing their ground" because they are too scared to respond like a real human being, and that they have a gun. Oh, and they are refusing to wear a mask. Mad dogs, Crazy Karens, Runaway1956.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:23PM (3 children)
It isn't a crime to beat down Anonymous Cowards caught in the act of insulting and assaulting our intelligence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:44PM (1 child)
So fascism. I like all these admissions you keep making. Hope you can keep it in your pants so we don't have to go all WWII on y'all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:11PM
QOTD
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:21PM
What about a certain Runaway? Is it a crime to beat him down while "caught in the act of insulting and assaulting our intelligence"? Just asking.
(Score: 1, Troll) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @04:57PM (10 children)
Crime is actually rising in some places. Portland politicians forced the police to disband the Gun Violence Reduction Team on July 1st.
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/portland-police-record-highest-number-of-death-investigations-in-single-month-in-more-than-three-decades.html [oregonlive.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:22PM (9 children)
In the thread where we are talking about science and facts and ideology, a neutral fact is modded as troll. Democrats are as religious about their science as Republicans.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:44PM (3 children)
Hemo, we know you are scared, but that does not give you the right to lie. This is why you get modded troll. You either need to grow some ovaries, or start telling the truth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @06:46PM
Why grow an ovary, when we've got you around?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday August 08 2020, @07:24PM (1 child)
So it's an ad hominem mod, not one based in substance. And you wonder why liberals look askance at the authoritarian left?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:08PM
Remember, hemo, ad hominem is saying you are wrong because you are a frightened idiot. What we are saying here is that you are a frightened idiot because you are wrong. Not the same thing at all. So, just stop it, you coward!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:15PM (4 children)
I didn't mod you down - but you make mention of a "neutral fact". Sorry, Bubba, but any statement about "gun violence" is a partisan opinion. The fact is, guns don't do violence, they don't commit crimes, they don't even cause crimes. You would do as well to blame the wind on the the trees in your yard. "Every time the trees start swaying, it gets windy around here!"
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:33PM (3 children)
NRA talking-points from the guy with a journal on them? Strange.
Guns facilitate violence, especially lethal violence. They make it easy, they have triggers for the easily triggered. And, America has a problem with gun fetishism. A gun, for a soldier, a cop, or a criminal, means they have power, and makes up for, um, shortcomings in other areas of masculinity. Most "self-defense" firearms end up being used on the owner their self, most often by their self. Guns make suicide quick and easy, and more likely to be fatal. Even the White House has admitted that limiting access to guns is preventative of veteran suicides. [npr.org] Not the mention the great success of gun-therapy in the case of the American Snipper dude. [nbcnews.com]
Moar Guns, for Freedumb!!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 08 2020, @08:54PM (2 children)
Your hand facilitate crime. Should we cut them off?
Citation needed. Oh - you refer to suicide? So, it is your position that a person may not end their lives, when they see fit? That person must be "saved" so that corporate America can make another few thousand dollars off their miserable lives?
As for Kyle, he went out doing what he wanted to do in life.
Hey - I want you to understand something. If you are a hoplophobe - that is, if you are afraid of guns, there is no need for you to own a gun! Don't want one? Just don't get one! You'll be safe from guns. If there is no gun in your house, then it can't jump down from the mantle, or pick the lock on your gunsafe, and set out to cause murder and mayhem.
None of us Second Amendment advocates demands that you buy a gun. You are safe from guns, if you want to be safe from guns.
After all, I wouldn't expect someone who is afraid of snakes to keep snakes in the house. Or dogs. Or cats. It should be mentioned that you have more reason to fear cats, than you have to fear guns.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:29PM (1 child)
Well, not quite. Sort of. In a recent discussion (a few months ago, I think) the Buzztard called me damn stupid when I admitted that in my more than fifty years of life I had never owned a gun. While that is not exactly a "demand" to buy a gun, it comes pretty damn close.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08 2020, @09:38PM
Sorry for double posting but I wanted to add that I'm beginning to see a rather worrying trend which comes pretty damn close to equating guns and God. [youtube.com] Are you sure you 2A types haven't gone over the edge worshiping your guns?