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posted by martyb on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:56AM   Printer-friendly
from the what-you-don't-know-won't-hurt-us dept.

Techdirt has a story that is quite disturbing on many levels:

Forget banning TikTok, the Trump State Department just suggested it wants to basically ban China from the internet. Rather than promoting an open internet and the concept of openness, it appears that under this administration we're slamming the gates shut and setting up the Great American Firewall for the internet. Under the guise of what it calls the Clean Network to Safeguard America, last night Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced a program that is full of vague statements, that could, in practice, fragment the internet.

This is incredibly disappointing on multiple levels. While other countries -- especially China, but also Iran and Russia -- have created their own fragmented internet, the US used to stand for an open internet across the globe. Indeed, for whatever complaints we had about the State Department during the Obama administration (and we had many complaints), its commitment to an open internet was very strong and meaningful. That's clearly now gone. The "Clean Network to Safeguard America" consists of five programs that can be summed up as "fuck you China."

So much for Internet openness.

Also At:
USA decides to cleanse local networks of anything Chinese under new five-point national data security plan


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  • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:14AM (19 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:14AM (#1033659)

    We voted for this Administration, so if we get a Great Firewall akin to China's, we deserve it.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:39AM (8 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:39AM (#1033666) Journal

      What do you mean "WE".

      In fact, more than half of voters voted for Clinton or a 3rd party. Others didn't vote at all.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:45AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:45AM (#1033669)

        Yeah that is half not as smart as you think. And it is pretty stupid to repeat it years after the election. Seriously.

        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:28PM

          by sjames (2882) on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:28PM (#1033993) Journal

          Sorry, little snowflake, did that nasty wasty truth hurt?

          Since the topic at hand was the last election, commenting on the last election seems reasonable.

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:45AM (5 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:45AM (#1033685) Journal

        What do you mean "WE".

        "WE", the collective got us into this mess. Only "WE" can get us out.

        Trump v. Biden

        Hell of a choice "WE" left ourselves

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:25AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:25AM (#1033709)

          Astonishing by the Democrats.

          If they had any straight white male candidate under the age of 50 who believed in climate change, they'd win in a landslide.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:33AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:33AM (#1033720)

            Inanimate carbon rod for president!

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:22AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:22AM (#1034104)

              Yes I’m voting for Biden too

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:36PM (1 child)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:36PM (#1033936) Journal

            They don't want a landslide. They would lose the republican "obstructionism" in their deceitful blame game. Congress has to remain at 50/50 for "villain rotation" to function. They all agree on the important stuff, like war and austerity and more prisons.

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:59PM (#1033980)

              this guy gets it.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:49PM (1 child)

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:49PM (#1033805) Journal

      frankly i kinda sorta doubt the clinton crime family would have been much different on this, unless they just accepted various economic bribes to comprimise any value like they have in the past.

      With the trump crime family and the jewish administration, at least it is obvious what we are dealing with and not as obfuscated.

      But I think to say this is a republican democrat issue is misguided at best.

      It appears to me the military is in charge and is the hidden hand, I would like to think they can say no to israel but i am not so sure given the ownership of the entire u.s. media. I would really really like to be proved wrong on this.

      See my journal and recent response to t-3.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @08:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @08:38PM (#1034511)

        You can't be dissuaded or proven wrong about conspiracies that never existed in the first place. Only you can prove to yourself you're believing in fantasies.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:48PM (6 children)

      by dry (223) on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:48PM (#1033909) Journal

      As a Canadian, I didn't get to vote for your Administration but I'm pretty sure to get dragged into this.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:08PM (5 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:08PM (#1033958)

        Doesn't matter. Your country won't adopt this unless your politicians decide to, and you vote for your own politicians.

        • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:35PM (4 children)

          by dry (223) on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:35PM (#1033971) Journal

          I don't think we get much say in Microsoft buying the 5 eyes part of TikTok as an example. And a lot of the internet is routed through America so if I want to communicate with someone in China or Russia, there's a very good chance the routing goes through the States.

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday August 10 2020, @04:00AM (3 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday August 10 2020, @04:00AM (#1034182)

            No one's forcing you to use TikTok. Heck, I never even heard of TikTok until recently when it became a political issue. There are other chat apps out there. Feel free to use WeChat it you want to talk to someone in China.

            Not all the internet backbones are run through the States; in fact, last I heard a bunch of backbones were installed specifically to avoid this. The very nature of the internet is that it routes around damage. A Great Trump Firewall can't block Canadians from having their packets routed to China or Russia. Only a Great Trudeau Firewall can do that, and that one is entirely on you.

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Monday August 10 2020, @04:30AM (2 children)

              by dry (223) on Monday August 10 2020, @04:30AM (#1034190) Journal

              I don't use TikTok and also didn't really know anything about it previous to this crap coming up. I do understand it is popular with some segments of the population and believing in freedom of association, I don't like seeing heavy government interference in basic rights.
              I'm not up on my backbones but if I do a traceroute to most places, it seems to get routed through America. Shit I just did one to the CBC and it routes through ae-6.r05.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net which looks like a US host. While I don't expect Trudeau to be interested in a great firewall, eventually the Conservatives will get in, and like all conservatives, they've switched to being anti-China in a big way. They also have a record of not giving a shit about many rights.

              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday August 10 2020, @02:30PM (1 child)

                by Grishnakh (2831) on Monday August 10 2020, @02:30PM (#1034322)

                >I don't like seeing heavy government interference in basic rights.

                The government has every right to interfere in basic rights. If the people don't like it, they can vote for different leaders. The American people voted for this government.

                >While I don't expect Trudeau to be interested in a great firewall, eventually the Conservatives will get in, and like all conservatives, they've switched to being anti-China in a big way. They also have a record of not giving a shit about many rights.

                Well if the Conservatives get in, it'll be because the Canadian people voted for them, so the Canadian people will be getting what they want and what they voted for.

                • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday August 10 2020, @03:19PM

                  by dry (223) on Monday August 10 2020, @03:19PM (#1034349) Journal

                  Well if the Conservatives get in, it'll be because the Canadian people voted for them, so the Canadian people will be getting what they want and what they voted for.

                  Actually it'll be due to not enough people voting for the Liberals. With 4 or 5 parties in Parliament, mostly on the left, all the Conservatives need is to maintain is their 1/3rd of the vote and wait.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:06PM (#1034066)

      More Americans DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS CLOWN. He got swept in by a relic of slavery.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:27AM (#1033663)

    This is what death to America looks like

    Overtime, if historical records survive, the affect of national tragedy on a culture will become more prominent. Hopefully it invokes some sympathy for those who have been subjugated.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Subsentient on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:47AM (23 children)

    by Subsentient (1111) on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:47AM (#1033670) Homepage Journal

    I've been watching this last year, and my gut feeling that we're currently in a spiral to total annihilation has just kept getting stronger. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not, the world will continue to get much worse very quickly, leading to the collapse of civilization.
    I've never been the conspiratorial type, never really believed in anything particularly outlandish, but this year has changed that in me.

    This is how the apocalypse looks, not one big event, but rather, death by a thousand cuts.

    Now I'll state the painfully obvious: Few here have the type of burning hatred for China's government that I have, but the real danger from China has always been the loss of freedom and the perversion of our values.
    Now, I see us doing it to ourselves.

    Welcome to the End of All Things (tm), brought to you by Amazon Prime.

    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:39AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:39AM (#1033684) Journal

      Welcome to the End of All Things (tm), brought to you by Amazon Prime.

      Good thing I don't have Amazon Prime!

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:04PM (7 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:04PM (#1033754) Journal

      I've been watching this last year, and my gut feeling that we're currently in a spiral to total annihilation has just kept getting stronger.

      Based on what evidence?

      I hope I'm wrong

      One can base that feeling on something a lot more solid than hope.

      • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:09PM (5 children)

        by Subsentient (1111) on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:09PM (#1033757) Homepage Journal

        >Based on what evidence?
        >>my gut feeling
        ???

        We'll see whether I'm wrong.

        --
        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:36PM (4 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:36PM (#1033766) Journal

          my gut feeling

          I think that's a huge cause of problems in places like the US. We have on the Front Page an article about how US residents are greatly overestimating crime in the US based on their gut feels.

          And that combination of questions revealed something important about American fear: We are terrible at estimating our risk of crime — much worse than we are at guessing the danger of other bad things. Across that decade, respondents put their chance of being robbed in the coming year at about 15 percent. Looking back, the actual rate of robbery was 1.2 percent. In contrast, when asked to rate their risk of upcoming job loss, people guessed it was about 14.5 percent — much closer to the actual job loss rate of 12.9 percent.

          As Phoenix666 noted [soylentnews.org], there's plenty more to be scared of, such his examples of white supremacists and coronavirus.

          Too much of present day ideology is not about how to make the world a better place, but which sky-is-falling scenario you buy into. That's all driven by gut feelings rather than by evidence.

          My take on these particular scenarios is that first, crime in the US has been falling for 25 years, white supremacists continue to be a vanishingly small minority, and while we humanity could have handled COVID-19 a lot better, it still compares well to our handling of the last big pandemic, the 1918 influenza epidemic.

          The same goes for so many other such scenarios. My take is these Chicken Little obsessions harm us in two ways: first, by ignoring what works, and second, by steering our energies into intractable problems or counterproductive solutions rather than stuff we can fix right now.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @08:56AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @08:56AM (#1034259)

            it still compares well to our handling of the last big pandemic, the 1918 influenza epidemic.

            That's a bullshit comparison.

            1. 1918 was deadly mostly to the working population while covid to the old
            2. americans were just as dumb about masks in 1918
            3. COVID19 is not a fucking flu

            Americans handled COVID even worse than 1918 flu. Despite having all the tech and knowledge available, the idiots say "fuck it" and infect everyone around, like in 1918. And unlike 1918, there is no fucking leadership at all. Jared Kusher tried to throw the blue states under the bus instead! How fucking stupid is this? https://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-covid-19-plan-maybe-axed-for-political-reasons-report-2020-7?r=DE&IR=T [businessinsider.com]

            And most importantly, COVID19 is NOT a flu. If it was spreading like a flu, America would have had 50m cases by now and a million dead. COVID takes weeks to kill you while the flu took only days -- spot the difference? Might as well compare HIV here and say "we are better than sub-saharan africa - no need to wear those condoms!"

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 10 2020, @12:27PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 10 2020, @12:27PM (#1034293) Journal
              If we look at your points, two are outright irrelevant. It doesn't matter who was affected more or that covid isn't the flu. And we aren't as dumb about masks as you would like, so point 2 is wrong. This is exactly the Chicken Little bullshit I was speaking of.

              And unlike 1918, there is no fucking leadership at all.

              Learn some history. There was no leadership in 1918.

              And most importantly, COVID19 is NOT a flu. If it was spreading like a flu, America would have had 50m cases by now and a million dead.

              Because? It spreads like a flu both in means and infectiousness, contrary to assertion. And nobody has tried to use the present tricks on a flu - like social distancing, requiring people to wear masks, or quarantining people if they show symptoms of the flu. I bet those tricks would work quite well, if they did.

              Might as well compare HIV here and say "we are better than sub-saharan africa - no need to wear those condoms!"

              Why would we do that? Classic Chicken Little logic there.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @11:04AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @11:04AM (#1034277)

            And who fuels these "Chicken Little obsessions" and helps them grow, continue, and spread? Social networking and the echo chambers of Chinese, Russian, and other bot nets setup by foreign states that benefit from the internal disruption and fear within the U.S.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Monday August 10 2020, @12:38PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 10 2020, @12:38PM (#1034295) Journal

              And who fuels these "Chicken Little obsessions" and helps them grow, continue, and spread? Social networking and the echo chambers of Chinese, Russian, and other bot nets setup by foreign states that benefit from the internal disruption and fear within the U.S.

              Now it's the fearsome bot nets.

              My take on this is that fear, worry, and related negative emotions are like an emotional immune system for risk. In the ancient world, there were threats all around us - big predators, rival tribes, natural disasters. Worrying about these things made us more alert to their dangers. In the modern world, we've done a great job of mitigating or eliminating most of these dangers. But the fear and worry doesn't go away just because the causes went away. It needs a target.

              I think that's the real cause here. Once we've run out of real dangers to worry about, our mental immune system starts coming up with imaginary threats to worry about such as those Chinese/Russian bot nets. Just like how a real immune system in a too clean environment starts triggering on food, dust, and other innocuous allergens when it can't find a real pathogen.

              Now, maybe these foreign powers are exploiting this. But the underlying cause is simply that we made society too good and now don't have enough to worry about. Unless an unsentient immune system, we can realize what's going on and do something productive about it - such as get over our worries.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:18AM (#1034099)

        The real truth here though is that this Great American Firewall is just pushing hundreds of thousands of duplicate firewall rules to our "network edges". Fuck you China? In my case it's Fuck you Amsterdam. I have like 80% of Amsterdam's networks blocked from accessing my network because of the bad traffic. Traffic clearly searching for vulnerabilities, is one instance of bad traffic.

        Anybody that needs to access my services from networks like that would be using secure tunnels and forms of 2FA. Any services being offered from American companies will most likely be done by hardware in datacenters located outside of the United States, and that is most often to comply with foreign laws.

        That's the ugly truth. We're already a highly segmented Internet, and where we are not, serious damage is being done to networks on a constant basis.

        I'm actually fully supportive of this, if and only if, all of those rules are incoming. Outgoing needs to be without restriction, unless there is considerable amounts of publicly documented bad traffic being directed towards those networks. Bad traffic that is exfiltrated data, etc. Lest people forget, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook ,etc. have all been used to pass around control traffic for Botnets.

        -- Es 791

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:07PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:07PM (#1033755)

      It's not the end of anything, it's the slowing of progress.

      Put up a wall, does it really stop anything? Not forever, usually not for long, it's just a temporary impediment. Small minds are stopped. If the barrier is worth crossing, it will be crossed.

      Mexico wouldn't pay for his wall, are we surprised that was the only (ridiculous) wall he would propose?

      The biggest wall he has managed to build (and get other nations to pay for, no less) is the COVID wall - Americans being banned from physical entry to other countries, at those countries' expense no less.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:58PM (11 children)

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:58PM (#1033809) Journal

      Well said maybe we can be pals.

      I call this the black paper. I wish it were not true but it is.
      https://files.catbox.moe/63jln5.pdf [catbox.moe]
      https://archive.is/AGcqP [archive.is]

      My open letter to chuck norris.
      https://archive.is/NFIe4 [archive.is]

      I have a difficult time picking who I despise worse, the CCP or Epsteinville, but fact is both of them may be conspiring against the united states, from within.

      A friend from highschool who became a closed minded boring thinker, and who is now last I checked assigned to the embassy in the congo, told me that when he was assigned to china checking visas for travel to the usa, he went to a conference. At this conference they tried to get him to pro forma sign a document that said china has "full soveignrty" over its internet.

      At the time I thought that was like, why is this a big deal? Now I know they were planning this totalitarian crap, no human rights, and they were trying to ensure the UN or anyone else would never even attempt to regulate what they would do to their people with electronics.

      The united states is marginally better, but only marginally. No ethnic groups are being wiped out, but if israel has their way certain factions that are not ok with u.s. vassalitude will be dead within a year or two one way or the other. Plus their overall hatred for everyone of european descent, except of course for our 12 year old girls.

      Israel and China both send stalkers after me when I go in public, its funny when they are both standing next to each other.

      No one believes me of course, but I am not dead yet and I can still type, so you have to hear my testimony and maybe one day when they come for you, you will realize the real truth of the situation.

      Hot tip: The United States and Europe could team up and solve this if we could have mass media and banking not controlled by Israel and China.

      But no one listens to me, so as you say get ready for the mayhem they intend to inflict upon those of us who do not believe some pigs are more equal than others.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Subsentient on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:39PM (10 children)

        by Subsentient (1111) on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:39PM (#1033826) Homepage Journal

        I won't do what a lot of people on here will do, which is condemn you or make fun of you etc. What people don't know about me, is despite being a lefty socialist myself, my dad was a neo-Nazi.
        I have a deep understanding of the type of thinking that led you where you are, because I grew up with it.
        I strongly disagree with it, but I understand it. I know you're not an evil man, just wrong.

        It's not the Jews or any race in particular. I don't think race matters. Some cultures are definitely worse than others however, though Judaism isn't even in the top 10 as far as I've seen.

        The truth my friend, is that humans like to point fingers at various groups, individuals, etc as the source of their woes and the evil in the world.
        The horrifying truth is, humans are the cause of human misery. People obviously don't want to admit that though, because doing so would be admitting a fatal, immutable flaw in themselves.

        Every group that's given power, every person put in a position of authority, sooner or later, abuses it.
        This pattern echoes across all of history, in every culture, in every religion, in every race, as long as humans have been able to carve symbols into rocks.

        Humans are wicked by nature and this is not something to be accepted or made peace with, but something to be abhorred.
        The only hope we ever had was to attempt to elevate ourselves to something greater, probably something artificial,
        something not subject to our abhorrent human nature. But, it looks like time has run out.

        We are the manufacturers of our own hell. All of this is coming to a head now, and our wretched species is finally going to get what it deserves.

        --
        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
        • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:02PM (9 children)

          by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:02PM (#1033841) Journal

          I appreciate your somewhat respectful response, but comparing me to a neo-nazi makes me doubt your reading comprehension.

          I roundly reject the use of the swastika or any supremacy of any race, including my own. A hundred years ago being a mix of english and german would be considered a "mutt" by many people.

          I did learn recently that the swastika is actually a symbol of eurpean people representing the big dipper moving through the four seasons, I never used to know that. I would have thought that would be a critical thing to teach in ww2 history, which as a teenager I was obsessed with.

          Cultural hegemony is real, and if you are ok with your banking, media, cloud computing, phone manufacture, transaction proecssing, telecommunications processing, entertainment, real estate, and representative govermnent being controlled by one nationalistic cult religion of people loyal to a country other than your own, I simply have to doubt your ability to think for yourself.

          Plus they rape children and betray every value my country was founded on, which is for me unfrorgiveable.

          The nation of israel is a national socialist nation, THEY are the new nazis in every way the old ones were just with a different cultish flag(that happens to be satanic...) and rather than try to debate with me, over the decades I have gotten angrier about this issue, they send paramilitaries to stalk me, and thereby threaten my life and livelihood.

          You should consider that maybe you are brainwashed, you have watched their media your entire life and only the caricature of your father to resent as an alternative.

          True humanity is cursed with a lot of bad people, but those of us trying to be good, which are many, are facing two major obstacles right now and those are jewish nationalism and chinese totalitarianism.

          Throw the evidence out the window if you like, let them murder me and ruin my life for stating the obvious, but one day will come where you realize they rule over you and taken everything you hold dear.

          I welcome debate with neo-nazis, but fact is, most of them are funded and sponsored by israel, you can say all of the most nutty hitler-loving thing you want on 4chan, but my far more moderate viewpoints are immediately censored.

          If that is the side you want to be on, accept you are intimidated into believing lies so that you can have enough money to live on, and then just admit you dont care about freedom, the constitution, truth, or whether or not child traffickers operate in your neighborhood with impunity.

          I have made my decision. I repeat, The Black Paper, which you dont even demonstrate to me you even read:
          https://files.catbox.moe/63jln5.pdf [catbox.moe]

          • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:05PM (5 children)

            by Subsentient (1111) on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:05PM (#1033844) Homepage Journal

            I actually read it more after I posted that comment but before your reply. It's interesting, and I appreciate the softer touch and nonviolent position, but much of this seems entirely unverifiable.
            Show me independently verified proof of the claims in the paper, and you'll really have my attention.
            I do recognize you're not a neo-Nazi per-se, and I much prefer debating with you than with many others. My father, however, *was* a neo-Nazi, so that's where my comparison comes from.

            --
            "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:29PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:29PM (#1033994)

              "nazi" is a jew slur for the nsdap. "racism" is another psyop used against any white who tries to protect or improve his race while the Jews use any tactic to improve their grip on the world's nations. you disrespect your father by calling him that. you act as if the Jews owning the media, hollywood, the finance industry, and a long list of other things is some kind of unverifiable conspiracy. are you crazy? just look at the credits for nearly everything that comes out of hollywood or who owns the "news" media companies. or watch fucking cspan when they have hearings. who runs the criminal international bankster federal reserve and nearly every nations' central bank, always? you dad was probably right about way more than you give him credit for. why don't you do some fucking research.

              • (Score: 3, Disagree) by Subsentient on Monday August 10 2020, @12:03AM

                by Subsentient (1111) on Monday August 10 2020, @12:03AM (#1034088) Homepage Journal

                My father was a heroin-addicted pathological liar who beat me and threatened to kill my mother. He did the disrespecting all by himself.
                You on the other hand, anon, are a corrosive turd of a human being.

                Every genuine neo-Nazi I've ever met has been a piece of shit. It's pretty hard not to make a connection there. It's pretty clear that advocation for genocide is correlated with being human garbage.

                I'm too tired and irritated to put up with this shit.

                --
                "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Monday August 10 2020, @07:05PM (2 children)

              by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Monday August 10 2020, @07:05PM (#1034457) Journal

              You are slinging terms around, shutting down modes of thought with label/cancel culture, and in a way that is really offensive. I am not calling you any names last I checked, calling or comparing someone to a neo-nazi is a slur. If im not advocating for a new "reich" and I am not, I am defending my countrys constitution and republican governance.

              Now that you *have* read my actual document, which you really should have first read before even responding, a pretty big failure on your part if you consider yourself a fair thinker and intellectual, the best you have to say is it is interesting. l

              An apology would be in order. Reading your response to anon who agrees with me, and your offensive response to him with more namecalling, I did however learn more about your father. In the united states neo-nazi ideology has for decades been an FBI honeypot trap for people with real mental issues, and prison population control. Once someone goes down that path their lives are so ruined, they can be easily controlled, puppeted even. The chances that your father was manipulated by actual agents of the government, is nearly 100%.

              You want me to link you more evidence, like I am your servant. The infographic memes in The Black Paper were written by at least a dozen people, it isnt the work of one person. I did my research and know that Susan Sonntag clained Epstein was an excample of "white privilege" after his death and hadnt written on the topic ever before. I didnt even know she was jewish until then but now I know she is part of the conspiracy, the racist conspiracy, against my race of people.

              The Noel Ignateive guy(sp i know) has a long long record of saying this at none other than harvard university. Which is to say you get banned and threatened with death if you try to boycott israel but if you say it is a good idea to eradicate the genetic heritage of all northern europeans, systematically, you get grant money. This is a fact.

              If you were a real intellectual and a serious thinker, you would say exactly what you doubted, and why, and give me specific things to prove.

              Instead you respond to very serious topics with half-eass-ery and expect respect, and so you will get none until you bring something to the table.

              Epstein got a way with it. He only raped white girls. He raped 12 year olds and trafficked them. There is still a global business profiting from their pictures. There is a vast propaganda effort by jewish people to erase the fact from history that he was jewish and associated with israel, and blame it on prince andrew or oprah.

              If you are unable to put this together yourself, I assume you are either stupid, or approve, and are sicker than your father in the head.

              Rethink your life, come back with some evidence of independent thought or stfu. And stop modding me troll you asshat.

              • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Monday August 10 2020, @07:34PM (1 child)

                by Subsentient (1111) on Monday August 10 2020, @07:34PM (#1034469) Homepage Journal

                I didn't mod you troll, that wasn't me, but after that bilious diatribe of yours, now I'm modding you flamebait.
                I ask you for evidence, I leave an open door to respond with useful information, which is far more than anyone else here will give you,
                but instead, you respond as if I personally attacked you.

                Yes, I need sources, for virtually everything, which you are clearly unable to provide. Perhaps your reaction is due to the fact that I sincerely asked you for proof which you know you don't have?
                I've been personally burned by the claims and beliefs of others many times in my life, in some cases quite severely, so I take a dim view of unverifiable claims.

                I responded to the other with some nastiness because he first showed some general nastiness himself.
                Show rudeness and/or hostility, receive rudeness and/or hostility. It's not rocket science.

                --
                "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @01:20AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @01:20AM (#1034121)

            did learn recently that the swastika is actually a symbol of eurpean people representing the big dipper moving through the four seasons, I never used to know that. I would have thought that would be a critical thing to teach in ww2 history, which as a teenager I was obsessed with.

            WTF?

            No idea where you got that. Hitler was part of the occult, and greatly immersed in it. They took the swastika, and modified it. The swastika was never, and has never, been associated with evil. It's associated with positive aspects of Hinduism and Janism. In Buddhism it signifies the footprints of the Buddha. Which is why I'm sure some confused people have seen asian antiques, prayer bowls, talismans, etc. that all seemingly having Nazi symbology. Nothing could be further from the truth.

            The swastika can be identified easily. Take a symmetric cross, bend each "leg" clockwise, or to the right. Each bent "leg" is placed parallel to the ground, or flat. You will notice all ancient symbology has the legs flat on the ground.

            The aswastika is the swastika, but reversed. The legs are left-facing, or counter-clockwise, and also, laying flat to the ground. This aswastika doesn't represent evil either, in the same way Yang doesn't represent evil while Yin represents Good.

            The Nazi symbol is the swastika rotated counter-clockwise 45 degrees. While there are some ancient uses that look turned 45 degrees, or balancing on a point, those are just usually vagaries of alignment. We also don't necessarily know the context in some ancient Greek, Roman, and European uses. That being said, it was closer to the meanings found in ancient belief systems from the Far East. All Nazi uses on flags and uniforms have the symbol balancing on a point, that is pointed downwards.

            My life, having been steeped in Far Eastern philosophies, has been surrounded by the swastika. We don't speak in German accents, or dream of Final Solutions :)

            • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Monday August 10 2020, @06:51PM

              by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Monday August 10 2020, @06:51PM (#1034454) Journal

              If that is all you have to say about the issue, then you are truly dull in the brain.

              Draw the big dipper in 4 directions with the handle towards the center, then a sortof swastika appears.

              A child could do that. Your points about other uses of the symbol are irrelevant and simply punt on the real issues and identify you as an inferior intellect who wants to endlessly argue trivialities while the world burns at the hands of jewish occultists who want to legally rape children.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 13 2020, @11:21PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 13 2020, @11:21PM (#1036351)

            You're fucking nuts, there's no paramilitary after you. If a nation-state saw you as a threat you'd be dead.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @10:31PM (#1034052)

      Because it's certainly possible enough of us tech preppers could get together, fund a seasted/artificial island/bribe off for a 'deserted island' somewhere and within 10-15 years have all the basics for low production technology, plus a cache of minimal mining/manufacturing equipmen to bootstrap further resource extraction once the continentalists hav descended into barbarism sufficient to make forays onto the mainland possible for our own needs.

      Not very globalist friendly, but given the current state of the world it doesn't feel like there are a lot of people worth watching out for, unfortunately.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by nostyle on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:09AM (8 children)

    by nostyle (11497) on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:09AM (#1033674) Journal

    People used to tell me that the "internet" detects censorship as damage and routes around it. Is this no longer true?

    • (Score: 1, Disagree) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:57AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:57AM (#1033700) Journal

      Is this no longer true?

      As trivial as cutting the phone line...

      The internet is more a cascading (failure) system than a parallel or multipath one. Kinda like those old Christmas tree lights, when one bulb goes out, the whole string is dead.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:36AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:36AM (#1033722)

      It was never true. The "internet" routes around nothing unless people reconfigure it to do so.

      *People* always route around if they want something enough. This has been true since the dawn of civilization. Smugglers and black markets have been the means of "routing around" for millennia, and will continue to thrive wherever a government imposes access restrictions on goods or services.

      • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:03PM

        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:03PM (#1033812) Journal

        we are the media, we are the internet.

        My homepage is a reflection of my mind in a way I never expected to experience, when I look at it it feels like a part of me. If it went down I would feel like a part of me was gone.

        My keyboard as I type this and my lcd screen as I read what I type feel very integrated, if klunky.

        There is still a line, for now, but imagining a world where I could no longer type my ideas, without computers, would change the actual mechanics of my meatspace mind. You as you read what I type, well, it is a form of klunkly telepathy, a real hive mind.

        The internet connects us quite a lot like the roots of trees connect them. So although you are technically somewhat correct, as BGP does route around failed routes automatically, that is what an AS is btw if you are new to this, most people if they lost their home connection would ask their neighbor to borrow their wifi, as if programmed to do so.

        Marshal McLuhan would have a ball with this, but at the moment the best you get is little old me.

        I do my best though.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by stormreaver on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:09PM (2 children)

      by stormreaver (5101) on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:09PM (#1033778)

      Is this no longer true?

      This seems like the exact thing we're doing: China is damaging the Internet, so we're routing around it.

      • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:07PM

        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:07PM (#1033813) Journal

        lol dude nice comment!

        I love it when SN works and there are real ideas going back and forth.

      • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:02PM

        by dry (223) on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:02PM (#1033914) Journal

        No, it seems more a plan to create an island consisting of 5 nations known as the 5 eyes. Tiktok as an example, it is not the whole company that MS may buy, but rather just the part in the 5 eyes, which means fragmentation with most of the world on the other side of the firewall.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:16PM (1 child)

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:16PM (#1033817) Journal

      Lets say it is being tested.

      For instance, I am censored at 4chan for atttempting to tell the truth about what israel is doing and the true cultic nature of (most) forms of judaism, as well as the active cointelpro tactics that have been used against me during the course of my life.

      https://archive.is/3gHre [archive.is]
      https://archive.is/Da8Aa [archive.is]

      https://files.catbox.moe/63jln5.pdf [catbox.moe]
      https://archive.is/AGcqP [archive.is]

      https://archive.is/8go6z [archive.is]
      https://files.catbox.moe/mzh0po.txt [catbox.moe]
      https://0bin.net/paste/Lh4-xsDiLp-kAi3m#BQLDRbCoonArlIY9s2fT7S74cMtyvXbsD4yZFI57ZAt [0bin.net]

      So I anchor all of my work at multiple locations. Archive.is is attacked by capcha, meaning they can give any archive link an infinite capcha, or simply force you to capcha until they fingerprint you within 99.999% certainty.

      It is no coincidence that the facegag people, and thrive people working through "ethos" capital, are trying to get to the point where anything can immediately be censored at the dns/ip level from jerusalem or the pentagon.

      First it was "total information awareness" but once you are aware of what everyone is thinking, who wouldnt also want "total mind control"? It is the logical next step.

      So I am fighting information warfare just to try to be an author, as I know amazon will never be fair to me with algorithms, payment, and has now a very full record of just arbitrarily taking down ideas they do not like without explanation.
      https://files.catbox.moe/02ih3g.pdf [catbox.moe]
      http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A10A2F8029E4737BC5188A294D84E953 [lib.rus.ec]

      Everyone working against jewish nationalism and epstein is dealing with this, and most of what you see in the news is trying to cover up the fact that our plutacracy is infested with child abusers. China has the same problem of course, but a totalitarian system will cover up all of the crimes of the inner party.

      There but for grace and the work of independent intellectuals like ourselves, go we all.

      China, the mossad and pedogarchs murder people like me so please store my work offline in case they try to erase me, even if you disagree. I am part of the center that is trying to hold, even though I know I seem esoteric, I am actually not. Hypernormalization is real, it makes conservatives and people who remember history look radical loons.
      Thanks.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:43PM (#1033941)

        I was paranoid once. Then I realized I could just ignore chaotic human society, grow my own food and take a walk in the forest, as simple as that all evil in the world lost it's control over me. I was out of reach.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by jasassin on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:58AM (18 children)

    by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Sunday August 09 2020, @06:58AM (#1033689) Homepage Journal

    How many Chinese websites have you visited?
    0
    1-5
    10 or more

    In my case, the answer is zero.

    Though I don't like my freedom to do so taken away.

    I also like getting cheap items off eBay from China, and the last two items I ordered never arrived. I'm sure that has something to do with this whole anti China deal. Not being able to get cheap products from China (especially when that's the only place to get some of these things) really sucks.

    --
    jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Marand on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:39AM (8 children)

      by Marand (1081) on Sunday August 09 2020, @07:39AM (#1033696) Journal

      How many Chinese websites have you visited?

      Another interesting question would be, for anyone running a website of some sort, how much legitimate traffic has your site gotten from China? One of the comments on the Slashdot discussion points out that a common thing to do, especially for smaller sites, is to block traffic from China, Russia, and Brazil because the majority of it tends to be hack attempts rather than legitimate traffic. This is in line with my experience of seeing lots of useless traffic from IPs out of China trying to request weird things and basically just filling logs with junk as they crawl the net looking for easy exploits.

      As a result, China's been doing a pretty good job of getting itself blocked from the rest of the world already, so for anyone that isn't a megacorp trying to profit off of the site, a US/China network split probably won't change much.

      • (Score: 1) by tobiasdavis on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:44AM (3 children)

        by tobiasdavis (4260) on Sunday August 09 2020, @11:44AM (#1033747)

        There's zero reason to not geographically isolate from bad actors . I don't think this will do any good though because vpns exist but a start must be made somewhere.

        • (Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:46PM

          by Marand (1081) on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:46PM (#1034000) Journal

          Like I said in my other comment, I don't necessarily agree with the reasoning behind the proposal, but I can see valid arguments for reducing a bad actor's impact on the rest of the internet. Especially when they've had decades to clean up their act and have, if anything, gotten worse instead of better because they don't care. If someone keeps shitting in your back yard there's a point where you have to just say "no, this is enough" and deal with it instead of letting them continue to do it. Sometimes you just have to accept that someone doesn't want to play nice with everyone else and you have to deal with it even if you don't want to.

          And, like I said in the original comment, I think it's interesting that a lot of the internet understands this and has already been trying to block them for misbehaving, though it's hard for every individual with a server to effectively block an entire country so it's not universal.

          I don't think this will do any good though because vpns exist but a start must be made somewhere.

          It could still reduce attacks against sites because, by being forced to use out-of-country VPNs to continue behaving poorly, they're being forced to go through providers that are more likely to care about the ramifications of being used for drive-by hacking, whereas right now Chinese IPs on Chinese providers don't give a fuck about any of that and can continue indefinitely.

          So VPN providers would be more likely to tackle that behaviour than China itself and, if they fail to do so, risk being blacklisted along with them. Wouldn't even need government intervention for that part necessarily, since individuals could just block the bad-faith VPNs instead of trying to block an entire country.

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday August 10 2020, @12:13AM (1 child)

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday August 10 2020, @12:13AM (#1034095)

          The US owned company I work for has a whole bunch of manufacturing sites in China.

          I don't think management would agree with your idea, at all.

          • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday August 10 2020, @01:29AM

            by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Monday August 10 2020, @01:29AM (#1034125) Homepage Journal

            I don't think management would agree with your idea, at all.

            And that is the source of the downfall of civilization.

            --
            jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:12PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:12PM (#1033759)

        I don't care if Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Uber, and my employer block China, or Russia, or for that matter Luxembourg or Morocco. What I don't like is the idea that the US government enters the business of deciding what foreign websites are safe for American citizens to access.

        The current US government is a monster that citizens have weak control over. I think expanding government censorship powers this way is a horrific idea, it's just one more step towards authoritarianism alongside all of the others from the past 30 years.

        • (Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:34PM

          by Marand (1081) on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:34PM (#1033996) Journal

          What I don't like is the idea that the US government enters the business of deciding what foreign websites are safe for American citizens to access.

          Oh, I agree completely. I just find it interesting that the Internet's at least halfway to the proposed split already, primarily because one party (China) can't play nicely with the rest of the world, blocking itself off from the rest of us while simultaneously being one of the primary sources of online aggression for everyone else.

          Though for the sake of argument, one could reasonably justify another country's sanctions against China's networks due to its consistently bad behaviour. Basically "If you don't get your shit together and deal with this, we'll fix it for you by cutting you off". Nations already do this with trade, so it's not a particularly far-fetched idea that the concept could apply to bad actors online as well, especially when continuing to deal with a nation that has a tangible negative effect on individuals elsewhere like is the case for the constant flood of hack attempts from certain countries.

          We've tried the "maybe if we play nice and turn the other cheek some good will get through and help its citizens" thing for decades and if anything it's gotten worse, not better, so maybe there is something to be said for a harsher approach where the rest of the internet goes "no, fuck you, we're done with your shit" to the egregiously bad actors like China and cuts them off at least partially to reduce their negative impact on everyone else.

          Of course, that has nothing to do with why a US/China network split is being put forth right now, so I'm not saying any of that in defense of what's being proposed. Just a devil's advocate argument about the basic premise because I find discussing that more interesting than giving attention to this vague "I'm taking a hard stance on China! Elect me please!" bullshit.

      • (Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday August 10 2020, @03:18AM

        by stretch611 (6199) on Monday August 10 2020, @03:18AM (#1034171)

        One of the comments on the Slashdot discussion points out that a common thing to do, especially for smaller sites, is to block traffic from China, Russia, and Brazil because the majority of it tends to be hack attempts rather than legitimate traffic.

        There is your problem right there... Don't read the green site.

        Slashdot was on its way down when it was purchased by corporate interests. Especially the stories.
        The discussions went much farther downhill when it allowed "sign in with Facebook"

        All you need to do to reasonably secure a server on the internet is keep the server updated regularly. Shut down all ports other than http/https/ssh. Anything else that you need to do should use a ssh tunnel. Use good passwords (and preferably use public/private ssh keys for access.)

        While the real pros can likely still break in, chances are that there is nothing on your server worth the effort to them. (and if there is, you should have the budget for things like IDS and professional support.) The script kiddies will look for the countless amount of other. weaker targets out on the internet.

        --
        Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @12:17PM (#1034292)

        All you open source devs from all around the world can meet at my servers instead. I'm not from China or the US... oh and you Iranians, you're welcome too, almost forgot.

        You should consider that China has a great firewall and you don't visit chinese sites.
        The US is going to have a great firewall and services hosted in the US will be inferior products.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by petecox on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:34AM (3 children)

      by petecox (3228) on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:34AM (#1033713)

      I made an account with a Chinese e-commerce site recently for a scrap part I couldn't find online otherwise during a pandemic lockdown - a motherboard for an 2010 monitor. 3-7 weeks shipping.

      I guess they're semi-legit, they charge Australian sales tax (GST) and reviews from other Aussies gave mixed results. If I learn my lesson the hard way, it's was only $AU15 after coupons. And breathes new life into a 1080p monitor which would otherwise by headed to recycling whose replacement cost 8 times that. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:11PM (2 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:11PM (#1033758)

        I've ordered a dozen or more things from banggood.com - always arrive to the states, slowly, but as advertised. Not stellar quality, but stellar value just about every time.

        So so many things on Amazon.com are clearly these same kind of Chinese products, just warehoused in the U.S. for rapid shipment.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:23PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:23PM (#1033762)

          The thing that irritates me most about US rhetoric against China is that we buy everything from China. All of your computers have Chinese parts. Your smart phones are made in China. Your car almost certainly has Chinese parts. Your television, your other appliances, and probably even your clothing, your footwear, your furniture, and probably also some of your food have components from China.

          Anything a politician says against China is pointless posturing. They own us now, and there's only one way out - we have to fight their government-backed, government-funded industry products with some of our own.

          But evidently US politicians are happy to send trillions to Wall Street, but not a cent for domestic manufacturing. Just a few tariffs that let the President look like he's taking on China while actually accomplishing nothing.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:46PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:46PM (#1033770) Journal

            Anything a politician says against China is pointless posturing. They own us now, and there's only one way out - we have to fight their government-backed, government-funded industry products with some of our own.

            We already know what the consequences of massive government-backed, government-funded industry products are - the military-industrial complex. That is a dead end. Instead, I suggest we could use a superior approach - low regulation capitalism.

    • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:24AM

      by zocalo (302) on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:24AM (#1033719)
      Define "Chinese websites".

      Is that, like, actually *in* China? As-in hosted on an IP assigned to China by APNIC?
      Or is it an IP owned, or part-owned, by a Chinese company?
      Or what about an IP assigned to a Chinese company by a third party, e.g. to host a CDN? There are a surprisingly large number of these, and they pretty much in most countries with a significant global DC and IX presence.

      Asking, because the first option is not much different to the second or third options, if you believe the current US Administration, and includes a good deal of web properties that are rather popular, as you'll be well aware if you've been following the implications of the proposed sanctions related to TikTok and Softbank.

      FWIW, over a typical month, the first is probably one or two - mostly administrative (security issues & abuse, etc., but sourcing some components direct), the second and third I have absolutely no idea, but given the extent of Chinese investment in overseas companies I suspect they're both quite large numbers.
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by RamiK on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:34AM (1 child)

      by RamiK (1813) on Sunday August 09 2020, @09:34AM (#1033721)

      Though there's a lot of Chinese retailers working with eBay, it's not Chinese. Aliexpress is the Chinese eBay where you generally find Chinese workshops and factory stores listing their products for small orders. They're the consumer version of Alibaba (for bulk) and owned by the same group (along with the TaoBao which is the Chinese equivalent of Craigslist/Etsy/eBay/Amazon).

      Products availability wise, beyond price differences, there's a lot of stuff only available on Aliexpress and a few things only available on eBay even if just looking at China so you generally want to check both up. Price wise, it's pretty random especially when you consider shipping & handling (with/without tracking number or expedited...) options so I almost always check both up. For technical products (bolts at specific sizes, electronic equipment, guitar parts...) Aliexpress is generally where it's at but it's still necessary to check both at least.

      And then there's the TaoBao agents where you can find products listed for a quarter of what you'd pay over at eBay and Aliexpress. But duties and agent commissions need to be factored in manually beyond the obvious risk factor of so many middlemen when buying what might have "fell off a truck" in China... FYI following the reddit chats, that's where the knockoff brand clothes and perfumes are bought and sold.

      Personally I stick to Aliexpress/eBay.

      --
      compiling...
    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:40PM

      by looorg (578) on Sunday August 09 2020, @12:40PM (#1033767)

      As many others I think it's in the 1-5 range, mostly since I buy/bought a fair amount of chips and other parts from AliExpress. But I think that is really as far as my interaction goes with China. Mostly cause I really dont know chinese. I guess there might be a few emails that passed over them to but that is probably it. Similar amounts for most other countries that ought to be on the potential US-shitlist such as Russia, Iran and North Korea. The last two probably doesn't even have much of a presence that I am aware of. For Russia it's most looking at pages dedicated to old 8bit clone machines (mostly Sinclair clones).

      That said isn't the Great Firewall of America just a double Firewall? Since it seems to more or less do what the Great Firewall of China already does, sort of. The Chinese one appears to mostly try to keep things in or that people should look outside, while the American is trying to prevent them from looking out -- so to keep it inside again. So it's more of a double Firewall targeting the same group or problem?

      That said I do wonder what kind of fragmentation we could see of the net and how annoying it will be to swap between them, and what kind of a crime that will be considered as. Or will it be one of them deals that if you wanna be friends with US you can't be friends with anyone else. So eventually we'll see what? Regional, or continental, networks that you have to jump on and off from?

    • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:48PM

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday August 09 2020, @02:48PM (#1033831) Journal

      In 2018 I was working somewhere that had a .com business address and was considering the logs, during some odd outages.

      From china every day of the week, and I have already mentioned it here at SN, there are near infinite entries in the following format:

      xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx(resolves to cc) l2j34lkn123lknoimnvsd8u90283u02mn52klmlkmvm02uj30592mn352mömöklmfopismv0s9j0293ui02uj2.js

      They are scanning every ip on the internet constantly for their backdoored devices.

      And they looooove javascript, go figure. /s (probably also things like garage door openers, security alarms, cameras, routers, valves controlling flammable agents...)

      On the internet it really is kindof like fighting the borg, or replicators, they have no interest in any of the actually human social uses of the internet, they function more and more like a machine hive.

      Difficult to see that as a democratic decision, and they have the one leader, and the one party, if he gets a brain slug or psy-bot in his brain, that will just be it for all of them.

      Frankly I believe that is the real issue the u.s. military is concerned about, and rightly so, but maybe only because they want to be doing the same thing(or israel does, tough to say)

      Read the novel Nexus, it is sadly the future of this out of control arms race driven by ethnic nationalism and cult oligarchies.

      We may look back at this as the good old days where we controlled our own minds, and all of our politics right now may be our global way of choosing who gets to hold the reigns to everything we are allowed to do and think.

      There is nowhere written biological humans will survive this. Place your bets, but as for myself, I will need to have a lot more than zero trust before I get chipped.

      Willfully. But I seriously doubt they are going to ask for our permission to enslave us, slavers never really do....unless you are Ghislaine Maxwell seducing a 12 year old with offers of a modeling career.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:00PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @01:00PM (#1033772)

    Stop giving the US bad ideas.

    Please.

    Now.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @03:01PM (#1033840)

    Nutjobs making demands on ISP's since the beginning. Most of the time, they are just quietly ignored. The nuts declare victory, but nothing actually changes.

    But now SO much backbone has been aggregated under just a few large companies, that stupidity like this could actually happen. The DOJ is busy trying to dismantle California civil rights legislation, when it really should be looking at breaking up Comcast, Centurylink etc. and restoring common cairrage.

    SSDD.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:28PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:28PM (#1033893)

    Chinsese or Mexicans?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @05:45PM (#1033904)

      Paying for walls is a mexican thing isn't it?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:06PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 09 2020, @08:06PM (#1033983)

    As soon as that thing is in place, there will be more things banned. That's how government works.

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