Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday September 08 2020, @11:48PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]

The Mozilla Corporation is known for among other things the Firefox web browser and the Thunderbird e-mail client, and its current CEO has written an open letter to the European Commission on the upcoming Digital Services Act (DSA) (warning for PDF). In it she vaguely addresses transparency, accountability, online advertising, and digital markets for a European internet, without addressing The Internet itself. The DSA appears to include proposals to split off a European internet from The Internet at large and model it after the great firewall of China in regards to control and isolation.

In the document, New Developments in Digital Services: Short-(2021), medium-(2025) and long-term (2030) perspectives and the implications for theDigital Services Act, the great firewall of China gets praised repeatedly as something to emulate should the EU split of an internet from The Internet:

To make sure these predictions become reality and to prevent the misuse of digital tools, we advise the European Parliament to take a le ading stance in the global digitalisation. Three main recommendations are given in the study: A European cloud / European internet could secure a reliable, trustworthy digital ecosystem in Europe. Funding programmes for eGovernment would use the innovative capabilities of start-ups throughout Europe to create the most digital and advanced government in the world. And all this should be communicated in a visionary and exciting way, making sure the right regulations are in place, but also encouraging boldness and showing a willingness to change (see Figure 2).

[...] Action Plan 1: European Cloud / European Internet

A European firewall/cloud/ internet would foster a digital ecosystem in Europe based on data and innovation. It would drive competition and set standards, similar to what has happened in China in the past 20 years. The foundations of such a European cloud are democratic values, transparency, competition and data protection.

[...] Technologically, it would require a top-level infrastructure, high-speed 5G or a 6G data network and a firewall. Setting up such a network would promote many European companies and therefore boost business and drive innovation.

Like the Chinese firewall, this European internet would block off services that condone or support unlawful conduct from third party countries.

[...] As e-commerce and remote working solutions became widely used and even smartphone tracking to prevent infections met very little scepticism. Now in the aftermath of this pandemic it's the perfect time to act and to push for ambitious goal in digitalising Europe.

[...] Update 2 of the Visionary Communication Programme: i.e. crypto, quantum computing. Here it is important to include visionaries, think tanks and influences to communicate the update to the public.

Phase 2 of the eGovernment Venture Programme: Testing and evaluating first technologies and ideas developed in the programme.

Initialising the European internet: setting up think tanks to creating the cornerstones and possible pitfalls of such a project.

Long term 2025 – 2030

Update 3 of the Visionary Communication Programme: i.e. 6G, European internet, DNA products. Further communication within the Europe of the new digital goals.

The EFF has also responded to the EU Commission on the Digital Services Act, with a request in the opposite direction, that of putting the citizens back in control and avoiding a situation where there are gatekeepers consisting of only a handful of large corporations.


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 08 2020, @11:59PM (15 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 08 2020, @11:59PM (#1048037) Homepage Journal

    So, will this be the Lesser European Firewall?

    --
    Taking bets: When does Biden's approval rating reach 15%?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:22AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:22AM (#1048049)

      It's Europe, you know they're going with "Mein Feuermauer"!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:59AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:59AM (#1048081)

      The Berlin Firewall

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:06AM (#1048087)

        The Reichstag Firewall

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:04AM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:04AM (#1048086)

      Another stupid idea sprouting in Brussels.
      Setting up a firewall for economic protection against successful US competition is going to result in a shitty home-grown EU ecosystem. What has Europe brought to the table in terms of "successful" Internet services recently? Wirecard? ^_^

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:26AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:26AM (#1048094)

        What has Europe brought to the table in terms of "successful" Internet services recently?

        Soundcloud & Spotify. You've heard of them even if you don't use them, which you won't be once the EU starts censoring them.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:29AM (8 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:29AM (#1048096) Homepage Journal

        What has Europe brought to the table in terms of "successful" Internet services recently?

        From the posting by our Euro members, it would seem that western Europe has real broadband internet just about everywhere you can go in western Europe - and the old Soviet countries aren't terribly far behind. Compare that to the US where the telcos give a little lip service to that "final mile" while stealing billions from the government.

        Let us turn that same question around -

        What has the US brought to the table in terms of "successful" Internet services recently?

        It seems to me that we rely on Asian manufacture, and, often enough, Asian design. WTF do we do for ourselves, aside from building better bombs and drones with which to force compliance with our demands?

        --
        Taking bets: When does Biden's approval rating reach 15%?
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:00AM (5 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:00AM (#1048144) Journal

          To be fair, Europe has higher population density and smaller costs for the same headcount coverage, so it's not unexpected that it "has real broadband internet just about everywhere you can go in western Europe".

          That's not to say the "What has the US brought to the table in terms of "successful" Internet services recently?" is not pertinent; just because its more difficult to do it, there's no reason to give up and certainly no justification for a total lack of progress.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:46AM (4 children)

            by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:46AM (#1048155) Journal

            Not places like Sweden, Norway, and Finland. All of those do well with broadband, despite having population densities [worldpopulationreview.com] of 25/km² (191st), 15/km² (210th), and 18/km² (200th) respectively, compared to the US which has 36/km² (175th).

            Now if you're looking at Romania, which has a density of 84/km² (124th), then you have different prospects. You can have broadband installed any day of the week from a selection of different companies and be up and running within 24 hours, for a low price, even if it involves cabling. Or at least that was the situation earlier. That's a big contrast to the US where there are regional monopolies and major dead zones where you can't get Internet connectivity for any price and even community broadband has been made illegal.

            That's on top of several hundreds of billions of dollars spent [vice.com] completely without result [irregulators.org]. Throwing more money [techdirt.com] at the thieves instead of prosecuting them won't produce any broadband. The US has a political barrier to broadband, not a technical one nor even a problem due to population density. It appears to be that political graft is solely the hinderance. With the short range of the frequencies designated for 5G, those dead zones are going to be even larger.

            So while it is certainly not a matter of population density, I agree that there is certainly no justification for the total lack of progress we have witnessed in the US the last three or so decades.

            --
            Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 09 2020, @08:09AM (1 child)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @08:09AM (#1048158) Journal

              Not places like Sweden, Norway, and Finland.

              You won't have Internet there "just about everywhere you can go" - just "everywhere on can reasonable can think to be going".
              Certainly, in the residential areas you will find it, but not in every wilderness.

              Now if you're looking at Romania,

              I imagine there (or in UK - 275/sqkm - for the matter), one could expect at least mobile coverage in almost all places (except caves, deep valleys in nature reserves or whatnot).

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
              • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Wednesday September 09 2020, @08:22AM

                by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @08:22AM (#1048162) Journal

                There are a lot of online maps showing coverage, but the maps all go by carrier rather than showing a holistic summary. Yet, they do show coverage where there are towns and villages, not just cities.

                One additional point is that roaming covers whole countries. So, as an example, if you are anywhere in Norway, calling anywhere else in Norway, using a Norwegian account, then the call will be a local call. Same for Sweden and Finland. Some European providers are even starting to extend roaming coverage for adjacent countries. Progress has been slow, but at least it is actual progress.

                --
                Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:14PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:14PM (#1048288)

              > ...compared to the US which has 36/km² (175th).

              US is a lot bigger than your other example countries and has some very empty places where people would still like to have good internet. See https://worldpopulationreview.com/states [worldpopulationreview.com]
              At one end of the list are Montana 7/km², Wyoming 6/km² and (not part of contiguous states), Alaska 1/km².

              In some cases, the US states can be compared to the Euro countries, in terms of land area.

              • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:00PM

                by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:00PM (#1048328) Journal

                Yes, and the US has spent over $400 billion USD on broadband so far, with nothing to show for it. The population, via the politicians, could hold the corporations which received that money responsible but hasn't. In contrast, what would the European countries' Internet situation look like if there had been an additional $400 billion USD ( ~ 337 billion € ) invested in it? It's not the lack of money. It's the lack of will combined with the grifting holding things back there.

                --
                Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
        • (Score: 2) by quietus on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:02AM

          by quietus (6328) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:02AM (#1048208) Journal

          As to the Asian manufacturing part, and the European situation.

          What is the economical sense of outsourcing manufacturing more than 8,000+ kilometers (4,900 miles) from your destination market, while facing massive unemployment on the other side of the Mediterranean Sea, only between 14 and 500 km (310 miles) away?

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:28PM

          by HiThere (866) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:28PM (#1048253) Journal

          Starlink comes to mind, even if it's not really up yet. Whether it's a good idea of not isn't yet clear, but it's certainly intended as an implementation of the Internet. And will be affected by moves such as this. (Though actually, my guess is that it's not really intended for use inside cities anyway.)

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:21AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:21AM (#1048114) Journal

        Setting up a firewall for economic protection against successful US competition is going to result in a shitty home-grown EU ecosystem

        If US corps would stop harvesting their consumers, maybe there wouldn't need to be an European firewall?

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:13AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:13AM (#1048042)

    Is there a similar proposal to emulate Chinese concentration camps? [theverge.com]

    the most digital and advanced government in the world.

    Powered by the First Universal Cybernetic Kynetic Ultramicro-Programmer?

    it's the perfect time to act and to push for ambitious goal in digitalising Europe.

    Is "digitalising" like digitizing or the act of EU citizens flipping them the bird? And the EU isn't Europe, they can't even get that right.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:30AM (12 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:30AM (#1048050) Journal

    I guess if my first name were Winifred I would drop it too.

    Mozilla is dying. It's lost its credibility, and its relevance. In other words, it's following in the path of RMS, who has pretty much faded from sight.

    At least Stallman has removed the personal ad on Stallman.org where he perpetually begged for a free room to "help support his ideals" or whatever. After the fiasco on the SAIL mailing list, good to see him gone from public view.

    Only a matter of time before Winnie and Mozilla so the same.

    --
    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:13AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:13AM (#1048057)

      When tranny gay-boy Hudson starts making fun of people's names.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:58AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:58AM (#1048079)
        You are fucking OBSESSED with Hudson. It's like that's all you can think about. It's like that's all you even want to think about.
        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:26AM (3 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:26AM (#1048115) Journal
          I'm not sweating it - I'm not the only person who thinks this isn't a tech site, but a place where right wingers offer each other mutual support against the cruel majority.

          It's really social media, mostly for old techies who still think that most people use "real computers" instead of those "stupid millennials" on their phones, are still pining for the year of Linux on the desktop, refuse to admit that the major open source projects have been co-opted by big business (see Debian and systemd as an example), and still disdain "good enough computing" because ever-higher spec hardware makes them semi-hard.

          Look at the discussions with the most comments - they all devolve into politics and often a good dose of misogyny.

          As for the poster, 14 years ago I wrote a series on transsexuality. I never thought I'd have to write something about basic genetic truths about sex, but I guess I'll have to. I'm sure that will also degrade into a shitfest.

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:27PM (5 children)

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:27PM (#1048350)

      Just because RMS isn't in the public spotlight doesn't mean he isn't right. Dude was prophetic about a lot of things that have come to pass.

      Maybe he isn't the most pleasant or photogenic guy, but that often has little to do with the accuracy of what you profess.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 1, Disagree) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @04:16PM (4 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @04:16PM (#1048386) Journal

        He was proven wrong. Open source doesn't have a proper financial model to assure continuous and consistent development and support. And let's face it -- nobody is getting any younger. The people who did the initial development surge are mostly dead or retired. There's no institution to provide institutional knowledge to those who might have been tempted to contribute because there's no corporate body to ensure that thing that need to get done (like bug fixes) get priority. Everyone wants to scratch their own itch - like adding another feature - than in maintaining the plumbing.

        Look what happened to Perl6. Or The Shitshiw Formerly Known As Firefox. Or systemd. Or all the package managers that aren't even compatible in the same distro. Or the lack of proper screen readers - they once "sort of worked" but not any more. The population that can benefit from a screen reader on the desktop is bigger than all the users of Linux on the desktop worldwide. So the choices are Microsoft or Apple.

        And the fault lies with the GPL. FreeBSD is the #2 desktop OS (Apple) because it is possible to make enough money to sustain developers.

        In 2000 there were 1,000 Linux distros, all offering pretty much the same software. In 2020 there are twice as many distr, all offering the same basic selection of increasingly dated software. In 2040? There probably won't be any Linux distros because the world will have changed and Linux will be a corporate-sponsored monolith with no use by individuals.

        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:17PM (3 children)

          by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:17PM (#1048496)

          He was proven wrong. Open source doesn't have a proper financial model

          Did he claim it did? He wasn't pushing open source because it was profitable, but because in his estimation, it was the ethical way to do software development.

          Look what happened to Perl6.

          Not really familiar with this one

          Or The Shitshow Formerly Known As Firefox

          I think that had more to do with them running off the end of the road after reaching feature completeness, than an inherent failure of open source philosophy. Although I guess the ability of OSS projects to get taken over by SJWs is a problem.

          Or systemd.

          Systemd, the blatant ignoring of The Unix Way? The thing that Red Hat twisted everybody's arm into using? It may be from an open source company, but it doesn't play by open source rules.

          And the fault lies with the GPL. FreeBSD is the #2 desktop OS (Apple) because it is possible to make enough money to sustain developers.

          BSD is the "#2 desktop OS" because it's easier to appropriate people's work and then lock it behind your own license, so of course for-profit companies are going to like it better. Am I supposed to be surprised? BSD License is for the benefit of the developer; the GPL is for the benefit of the end user (the assumption is that most of the time they're a programmer as well, but still).

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:02PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:02PM (#1048530)

            i don't think the tranny is really that dumb to not understand it's disingenuous analysis of FOSS. There's no point arguing with a liar.

          • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:14PM (1 child)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:14PM (#1048627) Journal

            How is dead software in any way to the benefit of the end user? And RMS proposed several financial models, all of which were laughable. In theory there should not be a browser monopoly if RMS was right. He obviously was wrong.

            Also, RMS was and is hugely ethically challenged. He called one of his buddy Epstein's victims a liar, a knee jerk response to anything that threatened Epsteins financial contributions to certain media projects at MIT.

            He also is totally wrong with his refusal to accept people's self identity [stallman.org]

            There are those who claim that we have an obligation to refer to someone using whatever pronouns person might choose. I disagree with that position, on grounds of principle and grounds of practice. I think we should respect other people's gender identification, but which pronouns we use for any particular gender identification is a separate matter — a matter of grammar. We do not owe it to anyone to change our grammar according to per wishes.

            Check out his idea of "respecting a persons gender identity by NOT using their preferred pronouns

            I respect a person's choice of gender identification by using the pronouns and words that go with it. "Person" (or "perse"), "per", and "pers" are gender-neutral; they respect any gender identification, just as completely as singular "they" would do. I would not presume to dictate to other people what pronouns they should use in their speech, but we can all state our preferences and the reasons behind them.

            Using the non-gender madeup "pers" instead of using a trans persons preferred pronouns is totally disrespectful.

            His misogyny is well documented.

            I will say the same thing about him when he dies that he said about Steve Jobs

            . I’m not glad he’s dead, but I’m glad he’s gone.

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday September 15 2020, @03:53PM

              by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday September 15 2020, @03:53PM (#1051350)

              Plenty of people are idiots outside of their field of expertise. I don't go to RMS if I want to talk about identity issues, the same as any other "hard" scientist.

              --
              "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by requerdanos on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:51AM (9 children)

    by requerdanos (5997) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @12:51AM (#1048052) Journal

    the great firewall of China gets praised repeatedly as something to emulate

    This sort of thinking can lead to things like deliberately creating your own digital dystopia, and passing laws requiring your residents to live there or do without.

    I and others can see already that this is a bad idea. No one should have to point this out, but since we're on the topic, for those contemplating any such thing: This Is A Bad Idea. Don't Do These Things.

    Just because we can doesn't mean that we should.

    • (Score: 1, Disagree) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:51AM (8 children)

      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:51AM (#1048077) Journal

      A "great wall" can be either good or bad, depending on how it's used, same as everything else in life.

      A "great wall" that blocks all traffic from North Korea, Mumbai , etc would save old people a couple billion bucks a year in scams. Ditto Nigeria and catfishes and Nigerian princes.

      Ditto Russia.

      Throw in blocking telephone calls from India claiming to be from the tax department. And the ones in Mandarin looking to scam immigrants by telling them there's an arrest warrant out for them.

      You don't even have to block it - just erect a toll so that scams become unprofitable, and that businesses that hide behind a fake web presence pretending to be in-country can't fake it any more.

      A walled garden can keep the vermin out. They want in, let them pay the toll charges. Even a few pennies per email would stop the tax scams.

      --
      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:01AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:01AM (#1048083)

        Could we also totally block out the USA? And maybe Canada and Australia, too? Lots of companies and people make monies providing services to international scammers.

        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:13AM (2 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:13AM (#1048111) Journal

          How about this - totally free nationwide internet access, subsidized by tolls on international traffic entering the country?

          This would help kickstart local tech to replace multinationals, help kill of cheap outsourcing, and make internet scams outside the country unprofitable, while making it easier to track down local scammers.

          After all, the guilty countries (hello, Indian tax scammers) don't have an incentive to stop scammers because it creates jobs locally.

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:41AM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:41AM (#1048138) Homepage Journal

            I'm just thrilled with that idea. I'll be reduced to reading news published by US MSM - which amounts to less than half the news, heavily slanted to support one party view or the other. Thrilled I am!

            --
            Taking bets: When does Biden's approval rating reach 15%?
            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:24PM

              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:24PM (#1048302) Journal
              We all know how much of a "special case" the US is, but maybe the 95% if tge world outside the US would like to be able to develop alternatives to American monopolies. And maybe this would weaken American monopolies enough domestically to allow competition to arise in the US.
              --
              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:23PM (3 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:23PM (#1048345)

        The thing about freedom is, as soon as you start qualifying "well actually, everything is free *except for these things,*" then you have a million people clamoring for you to add more exceptions.

        Spam calls, hacking, etc. is the price we pay for a free Internet, and I gladly pay that price. The alternative is the slippery slope that Ajit Pai and other crapweasels are trying to push us down.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @04:23PM (2 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @04:23PM (#1048393) Journal
          I have no problem with limiting the freedom of criminals to spam people or try to trick them into paying money for fake tax debts. Same as I have no problem limiting the freedom of food makers to sell unsafe contaminated food, or car manufacturers to sell defective cars, or speed limits, or stop signs and traffic lights, or limiting counterfeiting, or limiting people from making threats to harm others. Which of these limitations on freedom are you against?
          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:31PM (1 child)

            by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:31PM (#1048504)

            I have no problem with limiting the freedom of criminals to spam people or try to trick them into paying money for fake tax debts. Same as I have no problem limiting the freedom of food makers to sell unsafe contaminated food, or car manufacturers to sell defective cars

            The difference being, the former category requires you as the victim to consent to be victimized. The consumer unknowingly buying unsafe food or cars endangers them through no fault of their own.

            or speed limits, or stop signs and traffic lights

            also protect people who haven't consented to participate in Mad Max

            or limiting counterfeiting

            also impacts people who aren't party to it

            or limiting people from making threats to harm others.

            A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or group of people. These threats are often designed to intimidate victims in order to manipulate their behaviour, and thus a death threat can be a form of coercion. For example, a death threat could be used to dissuade a public figure from pursuing a criminal investigation or an advocacy campaign.

            In most jurisdictions, death threats are a serious type of criminal offence. Death threats are often covered by coercion statutes. For instance, the coercion statute in Alaska says:

            A person commits the crime of coercion if the person compels another to engage in conduct from which there is a legal right to abstain or abstain from conduct in which there is a legal right to engage, by means of instilling in the person who is compelled a fear that, if the demand is not complied with, the person who makes the demand or another may inflict physical injury on anyone....[1]

            Which of these limitations on freedom are you against?

            None of them, because they're all stupid examples.

            I didn't say a Great Firewall *couldn't* be beneficial, but it's just not worth the risk. It's a system ripe for abuse, and if we've learned nothing else over all these thousands of years, people should know that those in positions of petty power like to exercise it. Go talk to your friend Ajit Pai about how awesome it is to fuck over people's Internet if you like the idea so much.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @10:43PM

              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @10:43PM (#1048622) Journal
              Victims of spam designed to defraud them are not "willing victims." If they were aware that the spam was an attempt to defraud them, they would not consent. Same as the telephone scams claiming to be the tax department and demanding bitcoin - people are not willing dupes, just incredibly stupid and unaware of the world around them.
              --
              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
  • (Score: 2) by Zinnia Zirconium on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:40AM (8 children)

    by Zinnia Zirconium (11163) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:40AM (#1048074) Homepage Journal

    Neat!

    I know many things about getting through firewalls but I was unmotivated to learn until capitalist pigs took my unlimited internet away. Through struggle I grow. I rarely ever think of encumbered internet as encumbered anymore since I am so accustomed to bypassing restrictions.

    I spent some time today reconfiguring one of my proxy servers that gets me free internet but I recognize that the work I did was ultimately unproductive because I was writing workarounds for arbitrary restrictions imposed by other people. If those other people would stop imposing arbitrary restrictions then we would all be free to do actual productive work instead. But no. We play the capitalist pig game instead.

    Free internet wants to be free like free as in air. Just give it away already. It makes no difference to me. No way am I paying for internet access.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:59AM (6 children)

      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:59AM (#1048080) Journal

      The Internet does not "want to be free." It wants nothing. And it's most certainly not "free as in air." The whole Internet costs money to build and to run. It has no feelings, no wants, no desires. Same as information. Same as software. All these have one thing in common - they have no feelings or desires, and your slogan is just an attempt to bypass the rational thought process.

      --
      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:04AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:04AM (#1048085)

        > just an attempt to bypass the rational thought process.

        An effort free attempt where you are concerned.

        Thanks to your meanness, I'm going to lobby the EU on behalf of by Zinnia Zirconium. They should whitelist HTTP/0.9 connections so that php -S still functions.

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:06AM

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:06AM (#1048107) Journal

          Meanness for telling the truth? Slogans are designed to bypass rational thought. In this case, it was also patently false. What a whining baby!

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 2) by Zinnia Zirconium on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:56AM (1 child)

        by Zinnia Zirconium (11163) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:56AM (#1048118) Homepage Journal

        There should be a generally accepted expectation of free internet access. It could be advertising supported or tax supported or whatever but internet access should be free of cost.

        Back when broadcast TV was relevant nobody expected to pay for advertising supported broadcast TV. TV was free.

        Today nobody expects to pay for music. Music costs money to make but musicians still make music even when access to music is free of cost.

        Through technical trickery and legal loopholes I can get free internet and free movies and free TV.

        Now if only I could get free food for life [soranews24.com] that would be sweet.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:10AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:10AM (#1048147) Journal

          There should be a generally accepted expectation of free internet access. It could be advertising supported or tax supported or whatever but internet access should be free of cost.

          Thank you, but personally, I don't like it the way you describe.
          I'm think I'm better with an Internet with no traffic/destination restrictions, even if I need to pay for it.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:41PM

        by HiThere (866) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @01:41PM (#1048262) Journal

        Sorry, but the internet is different from software. Software, in principle, requires no maintenance. (Yeah, that's different from software in practice...usually.) An example of what I mean are most compilers. You only need to change them to adapt to changes in the language specs. If you're willing to use the old version of the language, you rarely need to do anything to maintain the compiler. The same for most static html pages. Make them dynamic, though, and you're using tools that aren't designed to be maintenance free. But the spec keeps changing, and newer html rendering engines eventually stop working with older code. So "in principle" isn't "in parctice", but "in principle" code that's been debugged doesn't need maintenance.

        The internet is very different. It doesn't just have the "passion for updates" induced need for maintenance, it's got the "machines wear out" need for maintenance. So it really *can't* be free. But it's also true that in the US the system has been designed to allow monopoly pricing. It didn't need to happen that way, but bribery, corruption, and politics ensured that it did.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:42PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @02:42PM (#1048317)

        The guard posts may be facing the other way, but the asshats on both sides really haven't changed that much.

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:18PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @03:18PM (#1048343)

      Free internet wants to be free like free as in air. Just give it away already. It makes no difference to me. No way am I paying for internet access.

      See, there's a reason RMS or whoever coined the terms "free as in beer/free as in freedom"--for most of your post it sounded like you were talking about free as in freedom, now in your last line you abruptly switch to "I don't want to pay my ISP."

      So, which one is your personal term "free as in air" supposed to be?

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 2) by leon_the_cat on Wednesday September 09 2020, @09:28AM

    by leon_the_cat (10052) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @09:28AM (#1048176) Journal

    and taking it away from parliament was always a hidden power grab very few people in the EU understood. When stuff like this pops up now you know how its going to end.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:40PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @06:40PM (#1048514)

    What else was to expect after the ex-"free world" let its politicians ignore freedom? Money does not stink.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:08PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 09 2020, @07:08PM (#1048536)

    This is what's happening with a many projects, foundations, companies. Straight from the communist brainwashing centers known as "schools" they enter these orgs and destroy them for their Bolshevik Jew masters and their race traitor Goi partners in crime.

  • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:35PM (2 children)

    by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:35PM (#1048636)

    I thought the summary looked fishy, seeming to imply that Mozilla CEO Mitchell Baker (she has a name) was being quoted in the block. She is not. The block quote in the summary comes from "Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies; Directorate-General for Internal Policies; Authors: Nick SOHNEMANN, Lasse Michael UFFRECHT, Marie Constanze HARTKOPF, Jette Paulina KRUSE, Lena Marie de NOELLEN; PE 648.784 - May 2020".

    Which is not to absolve Baker for the statement she did make, which in its vagueness seems to support the idea and motivation of DSA while refusing to discuss specifics. But this comment section seems to be taking this summary to mean that she and Mozilla are EU lapdogs whole-heartedly supporting and promoting a "great firewall". This simply is not true.

    Note to editors: in the future, please ensure that the title of the article (i.e. "Mozilla and the EFF on the Pending EU Digital Services Act") matches the most prominent block quote in the summary. The title suggests the summary is about "Mozilla and the EFF" reacting to the DSA, but most of the space is given to a completely unrelated document. I only hope this misleading construction was simply a mistake and not attempt by the original submitter (canopic jug) to deliberately malign Mozilla.

    --
    If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Thursday September 10 2020, @10:59AM (1 child)

      by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 10 2020, @10:59AM (#1048903) Journal

      It was a mistake, and the confusion is still not obvious to me. However. I should have nonetheless split off a separate paragraph there to make it more clear where the blockquote was from.

      You can submit articles too though.

      --
      Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
      • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Thursday September 10 2020, @02:51PM

        by meustrus (4961) on Thursday September 10 2020, @02:51PM (#1048984)

        I submitted a few articles. One of them got to the front page, but only after an editor had mutilated my summary until it was even more misleading than this one. I won't say my original submission had no problems, but I tried really hard to make sure the summary still told a cohesive story. Apparently the summary effectively standing alone isn't a desirable trait to our editors.

        Suffice to say I'm not interested in repeating that experience.

        --
        If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:49PM

    by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday September 09 2020, @11:49PM (#1048648) Homepage Journal

    Have you seen what they did to mobile Firefox last week? Completely redesigned interface that bears almost no resemblance to the old one. Did they think we WANT a new learning curve? And it's not a geezer thing, my 36 year old daughter called me complaining about it. If I wanted a completely different browser I would have deleted Firefox and installed one.

    What's even worse is that it's twice as slow and takes ten times as many taps to do what two or three did before. Incredibly bad design.

    I'm all for hiring the handicapped, but hiring someone with an IQ of sixty to code is about as smart as hiring Stevie Wonder as a bus driver. Is Mozilla hiring the old Microsoft employees?

    Firefox is no longer my go-to browser on the tablet. Glad they didn't fuck up the PC version like that.

    --
    Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
(1)