Military Police Leaders Weighed Deploying 'Heat Ray' Against D.C. Protesters
Hours before federal police officers cleared a crowded park near the White House with smoke and tear gas on June 1, the lead military police officer in the Department of Defense for the D.C. region asked if the D.C. National Guard had a kind of military heat ray that might be deployed against demonstrators in the nation's capital, according to one of the most senior National Guard officers on the scene.
In written responses to the House Committee on Natural Resources obtained by NPR, Major Adam DeMarco of the D.C. National Guard said he was copied on an email from the Provost Marshal of Joint Force Headquarters National Capital Region. He was looking for two things: a long range acoustic device, a kind of sound cannon known as an LRAD, and a device called the Active Denial System, or ADS.
The ADS was developed by the military some twenty years ago as a way to disperse crowds. There have been questions about whether it worked, or should be deployed in the first place. It uses millimeter wave technology to essentially heat the skin of people targeted by its invisible ray.
Long Range Acoustic Device
Active Denial System.
Related: Police Could Soon Get Their Hands on the U.S. Military's 'Pain Ray' (2013)
U.S. Military Increasing Development of Directed Energy Weapons
Related Stories
Officials from the armed forces and U.S. legislators expect wider use of directed energy weapons such as lasers and microwaves soon:
The officials described weapons that are in various stages of development and testing by the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and Army, but said more work was needed to develop tactics for their use and to ensure sufficient funding. "Directed energy brings the dawn of an entirely new era in defense," Lieutenant General William Etter, Commander, Continental U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command Region, told a conference hosted by Booz Allen Hamilton and the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment in Washington.
Directed energy refers to weapons that emit focused energy in the form of lasers, microwaves, electromagnetic radiation, radio waves, sound or particle beams. Etter and other officials said such weapons could lower the cost of current weapons, speed up responses to enemy attacks and cut deaths of civilians in the battlefield, but tough policy questions remained about their deployment.
[Navy Secretary Ray] Mabus said the Navy was extending deployment of the laser on the Ponce, and using lessons learned to help produce a 100-150 kilowatt laser prototype for testing at sea in 2018 or sooner. He said a powerful new railgun that could hit targets 100 miles away would also be tested at sea next year. A railgun is an electrically powered electromagnetic projectile launcher. He said the Navy would release a comprehensive road map this fall for developing, acquiring and fielding high-power radio frequency weapons, lasers and directed energy countermeasures.
More info at NextBigFuture, including the laser power needed to affect various targets and a 2011 U.S. Navy roadmap for shipboard lasers.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by gmby on Friday September 18 2020, @04:10AM (105 children)
For riots; then yes.
For proTESTERS then no.
Remember, if you don't allow the police to use nonlethal force; then your giving a big OK to use lethal force.
It will get worse before it gets better. Time to move out of the big cites.
I hear that Nature if very nice.
Bye
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Friday September 18 2020, @04:19AM (1 child)
ohohohoho
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Friday September 18 2020, @07:04AM
Wrong kind of nature, he's referring to living in the Garden Apartment State [ernet.in], with features such as:
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @04:58AM (92 children)
so let me ask you this. what do you consider when people block the roads of a major city, making it completely impossible for people to go to and from work and the grocery store? let's say they're not burning anything or beating anyone up. they just prevent you from getting home till 4am. every day. for a month. and every street (your street) they walk on looks like fifty garbage cans have been emptied out on it
there is no such thing as peaceful protests. just because they're not beating anyone up or trashing your car/workplace/home does not mean it's peaceful. if you stand in the middle of traffic and won't let cars pass, you get arrested. if there are a thousand people doing it, it doesn't make it legal or peaceful.
so yes, what you just called peaceful protests should absolutely involve active and physically damaging but non-lethal dispersal measures. now if they start launching fireworks at the cops like in portland, at ground level, on your street full of houses, not caring if they burn down you and your family, it's time for lethal measures both from police and homeowners.
here in chicago, the gangs were getting together and maiming the peaceful protesters to get them out of their neighborhoods. because the cops weren't allowed to.
(Score: 1, Troll) by gmby on Friday September 18 2020, @05:53AM (4 children)
Move out of the city.
Here's a peaceful protest for you.
https://www.themadameblue.com/blog/the-history-behind-the-iconic-miniskirt-protest [themadameblue.com]
Some cites give permits for "gatherings" with conditions. Violate those conditions then get told to go home. Don't go home? Then get arrested. Fight with the cops; then get busted (up.) Assault the cops then get shot.
It's all very simple. For more information see the history of the 60's and 70's.
It's sad that these kids didn't learn from Grandma on how to protest nicely and get results.
Bye
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @02:25PM (3 children)
That's cute. You think the suburbs don't get trashed by protesters. Welcome to Chicago. You're not driving home - your car was trashed by a bunch of sheltered suburban-raised millennials looking for attention and to not be bored.
Permits would be fine - anywhere, if the rules of the permit are followed, which they are not. If you follow the rules of the road, walk on sidewalks and in parks, not leave trash everywhere, you don't even need a permit. Doesn't apply to a single protest we've had anywhere in the country that I've seen.
(Score: 1, Troll) by gmby on Friday September 18 2020, @03:04PM (2 children)
I think I found your problem. You seem to be confusing Mobs, Gangs and Thugs with protesters. These kids aren't street dumb; they know if they did any of these things by themselves they would be caught. Safety in numbers has been a tactic of criminals for years.
You can't fix stupid. These people that are "protesting" are not to bright. To fix stupid it takes years and starts with our 1st graders. What is taught in our countries schools should be the most guarded and evaluated knowledge.
Again; move out of the gutter. Plenty of good jobs and homes in other parts of this big country.
Bye
(Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @06:03PM (1 child)
My 3k/month luxury apartment in downtown Chicago is the gutter. gotcha. I work in the suburbs a half-hour drive away. The suburbs got trashed too. I'm not moving because some losers think there's safety in numbers. They're getting majorly hurt left and right because the people in addition to the cops have about 100x the numbers. I enjoy hurting these criminals, and I am in no danger myself. It gives me pleasure to see them hurt. I never start the fight, but I enjoy finishing it. It literally puts a smile on my face to hurt someone who actively attacked me - even if they simply block the road to prevent me from getting home for 10 hours.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:10AM
You sniveling anti-American coward! I fire my Low-Orbit Ion Cannon in your general direction!! But then, you already live in Chicago? Oh, sorry.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @06:12AM (64 children)
There are peaceful protests. We saw some in the 1960's that were very peaceful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in [wikipedia.org]
I don't know why today's "protesters" aren't using it. Any city in the nation, some unarmed black kid is killed, we should expect to see thousands of black and white faces, surrounding city hall, the police stations, the mayor's home, the mayor's office, the homes of city council, police chief's home. Just sitting, and glaring accusingly. No need for even a chant. Chanting is alright, if that's your thing, but there's no need for it. Just hundreds of eyes, boring into the guilty.
But, you're right. Blocking streets is not peaceful. At most, marching at the edges of roadways, waving signs and silly crap, is acceptable. Blocking streets is NOT peaceful.
Outright rioting should be met with force. There is no 92nd Amendment with a "Right to Riot" in the constitution.
When the looting starts, the shooting starts. It's really that simple. The statement is decades old now, but it's perfectly valid.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday September 18 2020, @07:11AM (1 child)
And others less so, e.g. May 1968 when Charles de Gaulle fled France to Germany (!!!) because it appeared a revolution was in progress. Mind you it was then solved in a typical French fashion, everyone went back to work and they still talk about it now over Gauloises and Mouton-Cadet Bordeaux.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Friday September 18 2020, @03:03PM
Considering the types of revolution that happened in France, I'd say he was prudent. Best not to be the first in line for the guillotine.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @07:12AM (32 children)
Blocking streets is peaceful. What is not peaceful is dropping 2000lb bombs on the streets of fucking Nazis, or their American sympathizers.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @07:19AM (3 children)
When your critically ill or injured loved one is blocked from getting to the hospital by assholes blocking the streets, you tell us all about blocking the streets being peaceful. If there are "protesters" between you and the hospital, just run their asses over. A monster truck would be invaluable at that point in time. Anything with big wheels and more than a foot of ground clearance will work. Subcompact cars are not recommended.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @07:44AM (2 children)
You violence fantasizing coward boomer, Runaway1856! We would take your monster truck away from you, shove it up your ass, cure your ailing relative, and bring about peace and justice for all. You think having to wait for a protest is rough? Try being pulled over for DWB, put in a jail cell, and accidently ending up dead, like Sandra.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:30PM (1 child)
block my travel and i will open up on you brainwashed useful idiots like you were trying to run a checkpoint in fallujah, and i travel with 8-30 rd mags for just the occasion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @10:53PM
This is what happens when we send uneducated male children to fight foreign wars of aggression! We make them commit war crimes against innocent civilians, teach them how to "light up" vehicles full of women and children. When they come back from the wars, they are so morally traumatized that many of them commit suicide, rather than live with what they have done. The rest tend to vote republican, look at their fellow citizens as the enemy, and flash back to the site of their crimes. This is not healthy. America needs to fund mental health care for vets, or stop engaging in counter-innocent protester warfare. Now, thank you for your service, babykiller!
(Score: 3, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @02:31PM (27 children)
Peaceful for whom? I live downtown. They blocked every street. The bridges had to be raised. I was out driving, could not come back for about 8 hours because of the crowd. The next 2 days I couldn't get out to leave the city. It's just not peaceful - it's illegal. When gatherings get a permit the city is happy to accommodate them - they even block off about half the streets and put up detour signs, so everyone (the majority of the people) can get home and to work. What's funny is we have a huge empty park by the lake - the place of many concerts, which holds like 100k people. They preferred the streets.
Peaceful? Our uber-left black lesbian mayor asked trump for federal troops. That should tell you something. BTW, they then camped out in front of her condo and threatened the life of her wife.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @03:42PM (24 children)
Stop whining you little bitch. They're not doing it to annoy you. Maybe if you got occasionally shot and regularly arrested you might not have such a great love for the status quo.
(Score: 2, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @05:59PM (22 children)
Oh, I'm not whining. What I did do is dump out about 5kg of sodium hydroxide powder from my highrise window onto the "protesters" destroying and spray painting cars below. There was a lot of screaming. They couldn't see and were lying on the ground screaming. The streets were blocked off by them for about a mile radius, so no ambulance could get through. Not that an ambulance even tried getting through, because there was another ambulance destroyed by them just a couple of blocks away - why would we help the people actively attacking us.
When you and your buddies get some chemical burns on your face, I don't whine. I just smile with satisfaction. Enjoy the rubber bullet to your face loser.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:17PM (1 child)
Be careful. If you get caught, prosecutors would rather go after you than a rioter.
(Score: 3, Informative) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @10:33PM
I'm in Chicago, and this is literally false. to give you an idea - we have a black lesbian mayor - as left as it gets. It got to the point here where she asked trump for federal troops. yeah. the protesters surrounded her residence and threatened the life of her wife. After that, prosecutors only go after rioters - and very hard too.
plus, what I did was legal. they were shooting guns up at the windows as people were dumping garbage on them. as in my neighbor's place has a broken window and bullets in the walls. you're allowed to defend yourself, with lethal force.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday September 18 2020, @06:40PM (19 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @10:29PM (18 children)
actually it's called defense of life and property and perfectly legal. see, the neighbor asian woman whose car they were trashing dumped a garbage can full of crap onto them. they shot up her apartment with bullet holes - thankfully not hitting her. I would actually be justified to kill then at that point - perfectly legal.
but it's nice you hope the cops being attacked right now will go charge someone. you a religious person? you realize don't no one give a fuck about what you hope - right?
enjoy being a cuck. when the nigger fucks your wife - do you play with his balls?
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday September 18 2020, @11:12PM (17 children)
Right. Tell the judge you were dropping chemicals from a high-rise on people down below, make sure to go into detail about how you made sure only 'people who were firing guns' were being burned by it.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:55AM
Nazis always seem to go for the weapons of mass destruction, the indiscriminate destroyers. Only reason they did not use chemical weapons in WWII was Hitler's experience in WWI. Seems Fakefuck38 has gotten over that restriction. I hope he is hunted down and neutralized, as all good Soylentils do.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Saturday September 19 2020, @03:47PM (15 children)
No need to tell it to the judge. The judge is busy putting the people with chemical burns in jail. You have cute opinions. No one cares about them. If you decide to join an army attacking and run with them on the front lines, you risk getting shot by the other side. I don't make sure only the people firing guns get caught in a cloud of eye and skin dissolving chemicals. That's a something the people standing next to them watching need to take care of.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:26PM (14 children)
You know... I've re-read all you said and ... yeah, actually now I kinda agree with you on that. I don't think you'll be charged with anything, the more you say the clearer it is you're just making this up. Heh. I don't mean that insultingly actually, I just don't think you're dumb enough. 🙄
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by fakefuck39 on Saturday September 19 2020, @11:14PM (13 children)
I mean, believe what you want. Or you could watch videos and read the news, and realize there's some major shit going down and people are getting shot and hurt all over the country. It's not fiction, although from your chair where none of this is happening it seems like a movie. Did you know in Chicago we have had more than one murder daily, every day? That's before the protests even started.
Enjoy your farm. The sheep needs a good fucking - better get to it.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday September 20 2020, @12:29AM (12 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by fakefuck39 on Sunday September 20 2020, @08:16PM (11 children)
you: you're gonna go to jail for dropping chemicals on people
me: it's self-defense and perfectly legal
you: must be a fake story
me: there are a million stories and videos like it. protests get violent
you: you're responding to the wrong person.
i don't care about credibility. you don't want to believe what i wrote - i'm totally cool with that. you're the one who replied to my comment. tell me, do you often walk into a conversation uninvited, argue, then claim people are responding to the wrong person?
buzz off retard. i'm not here to convince you of anything. in your mind i'm either a criminal or making shit up. i'm cool with you thinking that. again, enjoy fucking your sheep.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday September 21 2020, @02:17PM (10 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @02:39PM (9 children)
"Tell the judge you were dropping chemicals from a high-rise on people down below"
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday September 22 2020, @03:44PM (8 children)
Oh and you were called out by someone else with the same criticism! Heh.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:50PM (7 children)
that is what I responded to. The response to "tell it to the judge" was "No need to tell it to the judge. The judge is busy putting the people with chemical burns in jail."
when criminals attack you, you are allowed to defend yourself. your assertion is "tell that to the judge." as I clearly stated, the judges here are too busy putting the people who attack in jail, so they are not going after people who defend themselves against those attackers. 3000 of them.
i'm seriously completely baffled what mental disease you have that is not letting you follow a very basic and simple thread of conversation.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday September 22 2020, @05:24PM (6 children)
That phrase is not in the post I had responded to nor was your reply on that topic.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @07:10PM (5 children)
I don't know what to tell you crosseyes. pull up the fucking thread and read it. you seem to be quite lost, or perhaps have some script that's garbling your html.
bbye now. I'm not here to teach you how to read a thread.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday September 22 2020, @11:53PM (4 children)
T'was fun, and I do hope you have a good day. :) Laterz.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by fakefuck39 on Thursday September 24 2020, @12:18AM (3 children)
are you autistic or something? you said i'll be arrested, I said what I did was legal and cops aren't going against people like me, you then said I'm replying to the wrong post. Now, I have zero idea what conversation you're even in. Is it just adhd or a sprinkle of autism in there too? take your pills buddy.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday September 24 2020, @01:58AM (2 children)
protip: The phrase"My bad" isn't the humiliation you fear. Tipping your hand while doubling down, though...... 😂
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Funny) by fakefuck39 on Thursday September 24 2020, @03:37AM (1 child)
I can't fanthom the mental problem you must have to not be able to open up a thread and literally read it. again, you claimed I would be in front of a judge, I said judges aren't going after people like me, you said I'm replying to the wrong comment. Open the thread and read it. It is mind-boggling how you keep doubling down. It's like a kid with a full diaper repeatedly yelling someone smells like shit.
btw, i literally read zero of what you just wrote.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday September 24 2020, @03:43AM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:32PM
fuck the cops and fuck the Neo-bolsheviks' useful idiot "protesters". i hope you two groups kill each other off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:17AM (1 child)
Wrong, you foul-face pile of excrement! It is you who are demanding White Privilege, you vomituous mass! Your type really make me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed pervert! Yes, you are inconvenienced. But wait till we put you in the Re-education camp for Trump supporting Republicans! Vegan diet, 12 hours a day hard labor in the Kale fields, Lectures by the Green New Deal Commissar at 19:00 hours every evening. And lights out by 20:11. No Sodium Hydroxychloroquinine is allowed. Now put your hands in the red circles on the wall.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Saturday September 19 2020, @03:43PM
I love people like you who are in a camp and lack the critical thinking to make up their mind about individual issues. You are the sheep that keeps our economy going. The backs upon which I walk. And your life will never get better, because you keep it worse - you live a shitty life, and you will die. Seriously, just end your pain now - you'll never have a good life - why put up with years of pain? Just end it now - don't deal with your pain. There will be no end to it. Just end it.
I'm against trump. I'm against Bernie and Miranda Veracruz de la Hoya Cardinal (AOC). I'm against the cops. I'm against the protesters.
I'm indeed "inconvenienced" by the protesters. You have no right to "inconvenience" me, and if you try to do so while breaking the law, you get a rubber bullet to your face from the cop, paid for by my taxes. You don't get to block roads and trash my street. I know you feel entitled to do so. No one cares what you feel. Or what you think. Or what you do. You are nothing. Rage on though - it's entertaining to watch you get hurt.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @01:20PM
So you're saying those daily commuters are committing an act of violence?
They are certainly blocking the streets.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @03:40PM (6 children)
> I don't know why today's "protesters" aren't using it.
you obviously missed the Occupy protests. that got absolutely zero results. check that off the list, move onto the next item.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @03:49PM (3 children)
And, Mahatma Ghandi is rolling in his grave. Not that many liberal/progressives have ever understood anything Ghandi said or did.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @04:32PM (2 children)
Ignorance, what else to expect from a boomer?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @04:49PM (1 child)
Wait, wut? You are frustrated, so that means I am ignorant? Go study Ghandi for awhile. No, don't stop with the fluff pieces written by starry-eyed liberal arts students. Study the man, and understand where he came from, and what his motivations were. He is a far less lovable teddy bear than you imagine. When you get tired of Ghandi, start with Sun Tzu. Cure your own ignorance before you worry about my education or lack thereof.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @10:58PM
No, my non-violent Runaway. Everything you say means you're ignorant. You are not fooling us into thinking you "read", and especially not that you actually read Gandhi! (For one thing, spelling the name correctly would greatly bolster your credibility. As it is, you have none, because you are an ignorant redneck hick.)
(Score: 2) by DeVilla on Saturday September 19 2020, @01:21AM (1 child)
I remember those!
They were awesome!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:23AM
I preferred the chants by educators against the idiot Republican Kock-sucker Scott Walker. As the group moved down the street, all dressed as zombies, the leader (I assume) with the megaphone would shout out:
All in train would reply:
Leader:
Reply:
And, after the cuts to education, and not just higher education, one can now hear such chants on a daily basis on streets in Wisconsin. At least when not even more idiotic teenagers with deadly toys are sneaking across the state borders, which, by the way, were not paid for by Illinois, seeking blood. At least Zombies have an excuse. Trump supporters? No excuse, no brains.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @03:58PM (1 child)
True... but the protests are like Anonymous (are they still a thing?). They are a disparate group acting en masse without central control. Anybody can join and claim themselves as part of the group.
So what do you do when he authorities put on plain clothes and then false-flag throw a brick at their fellow uniformed officers (or even into a shop)? Or are you saying that the police and FBI never do that?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @04:02PM
Throwing a brick at a sit in has the disadvantage of drawing a lot of attention to the individual throwing the brick. Easy to get away with something like that in a chaotic crowd milling about, not so much at a sit in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @04:36PM
Here I thought yiu defended the constitution. If you don't want gun restrictions then you shouldb't want restrictions in your 1st amendment rights.
Don't strain yourself with any mental gymnastics, yer old and might rupture some veins.
(Score: 2) by helel on Friday September 18 2020, @04:39PM (14 children)
If I understand your premise it seems that you are suggesting that those who do not obey the law during protests should be shot?
If protesters being trapped in the streets after curfew are "not peaceful" what about the police that slashed their tires [dailydot.com], trapping them there? Should those officers be shot? They willfully engaged in mass vandalism of private property after all.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @04:57PM (13 children)
People committing violent acts are not "peaceful". Were there people throwing explosive devices in Portland? Each and every individual who threw an explosive device was a legitimate target for any sniper on the roofs, using lethal force. It's just that fucking simple. Those people wielding lasers? Pretty much the same. Fire starters? The rioters repeatedly attempted to burn down the Federal building, knowing full well that the building was occupied by law officers. The police Union building was burnt, at least twice.
Your "peaceful" protestors, at the least, provided cover for the violent protesters. If a few of them become collateral damage, so be it. They put themselves into that situation, willingly enough.
(Score: 2) by helel on Friday September 18 2020, @05:59PM (10 children)
Throwing explosive devices? I assume you're referring to Louis Garrick Fernbaugh [thecourierdaily.com]? I think it's important to keep in mind he was throwing bombs at the protesters, not at police. Yes, police in the area could probably have justified using lethal force to take him down but it's important to understand he is a domestic terrorist attacking protesters, not one of the protesters.
Even if we indulge the notion that the victims of terrorism are to blame for "providing cover" for their attackers would not similar reasoning justify any and all attacks on police? Only a small percentage of police officers murder Costco shoppers who bump them in line all the "good cops" who defend these officers are "providing cover" for literal murderers. Should anyone opening fire on police be applauded, or at least tolerated, as simply taking action against criminals?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @06:52PM (9 children)
I'm referring to the hundreds of bombs, hurled by protesters, at police and/or at the Federal building. Or, are you making the claim that only this one nutcase ever threw any bombs? If that be the case, you need to go back and watch videos.
And, yes, I'll state clearly that Fernbaugh should have been shot from the roof as soon as he brought in a bomb. There's no excuse for that shit, no matter which "side" he thought he was on.
(Score: 2) by helel on Friday September 18 2020, @09:04PM (8 children)
Could you link to any articles concerning these "hundreds of bombs"? I only know of one IED wielding bomber in Portland and searching the topic only turned up a few tabloids claiming that "Portland looks like downtown Baghdad" supporting their claims with videos and images of police firing on protesters armed only with shields used to block the worst of the polices barrage.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @11:33PM (7 children)
Ahhhhhhhh - before I go looking for bomb stories, allow me to show you some media stories. See, BLM/Antifa asserted itself to control the media allowed to be published in regards to the Portland riots.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-portland-protesters-vetting-media-coverage-blocking-un-approved-reporters-from-covering-riots [dailywire.com]
In short, you self-edited your video and reporting to meet with protester's guidelines, or you were targeted to be beaten to death.
But, you asked about explosives . . .
https://www.theepochtimes.com/explosive-device-blows-up-at-front-door-of-us-courthouse-during-riots_3441096.html [theepochtimes.com]
There is this little weenie,
https://www.lawofficer.com/portland-rioter-outed-by-his-grandmother-after-she-identified-him-throwing-explosive-device/ [lawofficer.com]
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/federal-officer-wounded-after-rioter-detonates-explosive-device-inside-portland-courthouse/ [bluelivesmatter.blue]
https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/30/authorities-seize-ieds-seattle-dhs-confirms-use-portland/ [dailycaller.com]
The footage I watched over the past couple months had a helluva lot of IEDs in them. Many were little more than a simple firecracker, or a package of firecrackers. Doesn't sound like much, right? Except, one single little firecracker can blow your fingers off of your hand, and leave you with burns that are hell to heal. A little M80 has considerably more potential to be deadly. I watched one video, in which the rioters set off at least a half dozen "industrial fireworks". We're talking those big bastards that are set off by contractors on 4th of July displays. Those things will outright kill people. If set off in a confined space, they are deadlier than a hand grenade, FFS.
Portland was no "peaceful protest", any more than the first three nights of Kenosha rioting was "peaceful".
(Score: 2) by helel on Saturday September 19 2020, @04:57AM (5 children)
First, it's the police that have assaulted journalists [opb.org], repeatedly. There are videos. [youtube.com] Given that the reporters claiming to have been assaulted by protesters also claim they filmed the encounters you'd expect them to provide video proof, and yet they do not. Curious.
As to your two accounts of individuals using IED's (the first two stories look to be the same event), it comes after months of the police destroying property as well as relentlessly beating, shooting at, and gassing protesters in Portland. If, as you suggest, lethal force is justifiable against persons committing acts of vandalism and assault then it stands to reason that those two protesters were well within their rights defending themselves against violent aggressors with the only weapons they had on hand.
If, on the other hand, lethal force is not morally justified against persons who have engaged in vandalism and/or assault than the police have been in the wrong for months and should all be thrown in jail for their actions.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 19 2020, @05:24AM (4 children)
Journalists? You missed the part where I stated that BLM/Antifa are assaulting and chasing away any journalists who are unsympathetic to them. That extends to stealing the journalists phones and other recording devices. You might do a search for Andy Ngo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT42k4BrM20 [youtube.com]
The fatal flaw in your "peaceful protesters" merely "defending themselves" from police? The police never left the vicinity of the Federal Building. That is, the police were in a defensive position, and didn't chase the protesters to their homes.
Are you suggesting that the police and federal agents inflicted all the damage on property, and on themselves, just to make a good story against the rioters?
In response, I suggest that you read "the other side".
(Score: 2) by helel on Saturday September 19 2020, @06:02AM (3 children)
I've read both sides. Here's the thing. There's cameras everywhere these days. Like I said, in the article you linked the reporter claims to have filmed their assault by protesters. Despite this only one side is able to reliably produce video. We can watch the police fire on protester, slash car tires, beat peaceful protester, and even smash businesses up. We have video of right wing activists attacking and even gunning down peaceful protesters.
On the other side we have a fox news anchor ... describing a video he saw? Where is the actual video of this alleged assault? And then what, he got six of his friends to make a home movie for his Twitter followers? Even if his video is authentic I see nothing criminal in it, just a few friends ringing doorbell and then leaving peaceably. Hell, they aren't even stalking out the reporters home like you suggested protesters should do as a form of "sit-in" earlier.
If you trust the talking heads on Fox more than your own eyes there's nothing I can say to convince you. If, on the other hand, you're interested in thinking for yourself I recommend you go to your nearest protest and march near them just to see what happens. Don't trust what I say or what Andy Ngo says, just go and judge for yourself.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 19 2020, @06:23AM (2 children)
Sorry, you're beginning to sound a bit lame. Andy Ngo, a Fox Anchor? Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo [wikipedia.org]
Andy just doesn't fit a Fox anchor profile. Not that profiling is right, or legal, or anything - but he doesn't fit the profile at all.
And, what is it with the Fox news bit, anyway? You and I haven't crossed paths, but you need to be aware that I don't do Fox. It's equal parts that I distrust Fox, and that I despise Rupert Murdoch. I don't want my mind polluted by Murdoch's views, thank you very much.
Oh, don't bother explaining about Fox. I'm not progressive, Andy isn't progressive, so we must both belong to the Fox audience. No need explaining.
Nearest protest, huh? I guess that would be St. Louis. Hmmmm - I didn't lose anything in St. Louis or vicinity that I need to go back for. Maybe Austin - but it seems the Texas Department of Public Safety has things well in hand. They're not pushovers like the cops in Portland. Did I read something about Tulsa recently? Let me check on that . . . no it looks like Okie city in May - https://www.normantranscript.com/news/riots-erupt-overnight-in-oklahoma-city-in-protest-of-george-floyd-incident/article_06ea9cf8-a344-11ea-922a-2bd4bed7b042.html [normantranscript.com] (Ugly URL)
Problem is, Antifa doesn't include me in their news letters, and I don't get directions to the next planned riot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @09:03AM
Worse than a Fox Anchor Baby! A Chi-com Vietcong Proud Boy Patriot Prayer motherfucking operative! What the fuck is it with these Asian white supremacists in Oregon? or Southern Washington State? OK, it is just Vancouver, I do not want to many protests of non-involvement. But of course all this is too nuanced (Note: "nuanced" means "difficult to understand") for idiots like our idiot Runaway. Andy Ngo is a well known provocateur, known for previously getting his camera messed up by a milk-shake in Portland, were he was acting against America. Time to do some "research", Runaway! The Q-drops are out there!
(Wait, has anyone noticed Runaway showing signs of QAnon, rather than normal Fox News brain poisoning? Hmm.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @09:06AM
Know why that is, Runaway1956? Because there is no such organization. You are imagining, again. Remember that time, you thought there was an Ozark branch of the Bigfoot family? Antifa is like that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:29AM
Oh, yeah, of course, Runaway! If you say so! (How could anyone be so totally unaware that they are being used as a propaganda tool? Is Runaway actually this stupid? Is it humanly possible to be this stupid? This is Fox News levels of stupid!) But seriously, Runaway, you might want to seek help. I hear "reality therapy" is really effective, and fun!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:35PM (1 child)
This thinking of "some people like you commit crimes, and so I will treat you as though you committed a crime," is exactly what these people are out there protesting.
The justice system in this country is based on the presumption of innocents.
Some people get that, some people don't, these protests are about people that don't demanding that they get such a presumption.
The fact that you presume them all guilty proves their point for them.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @06:48PM
Nice strawman you got there.
No one has suggested that they should have set up a half dozen machine guns in Portland, and mowed the protesters down. I've specified snipers, and bomb throwers, along with those shining lasers into cop's eyes.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Friday September 18 2020, @10:20PM (2 children)
> I don't know why today's "protesters" aren't using it.
You know very well why they aren't using it, since you put "protesters" in quotes. Anyone who isn't deluded knows why someone would break into stores and steal things, and it ain't for protesting.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @11:15PM (1 child)
I put "protesters" in quotes, because so very many of them are outright rioters. The most recent uprising in Pennsylvania saw riots one night, then peaceful protests the next night. Why was that? Because rioters were slapped with million dollar bonds. Suddenly, it was going to COST the assholes to riot, so they put rioting aside.
Actual protesters are being used as useful idiots, in most cases.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:32AM
Ok, we understand this is why you, Runaway, as a true believing Trickle-down Reagan Entrepreneur Republican, stopped rioting. But why do you assume that was the motivation of everyone else? I mean, I can see khallow following the maximization of profits line. But the boy ain't normal.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @01:14PM (19 children)
So you're telling me that all those rats racing to work and then back home during the daily rush hours are committing acts of violence against me and that my road rage is therefor justifiable homicide?
Good to know. I wonder if the courts would agree?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @02:09PM (7 children)
Going to work for a paycheck to provide for their own livelihood. Such ass holes. Why can't they just be unemployed bums and block traffic like a good productive member of society.
Contrary to popular chants. It is not "their streets".
(Score: 3, Touché) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @02:45PM (6 children)
So grinding for a paycheck = good, exercising right to peaceably assemble and petition government for redress of grievances = bad?
Both have a tendency to clog the streets during peak hours.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @04:04PM (4 children)
It seems your definition of "peaceful" is skewed somehow. That is, you believe the propaganda George Soros pays for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @07:21PM (2 children)
You believe the propaganda Koch pays for?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 18 2020, @07:49PM (1 child)
Absolutely not. Why would I? I'm perfectly well aware that the Koch brothers spent 14 billion dollars to overthrow a government in Ukraine. I should believe they wouldn't do the same here? I'm to believe that Soros wouldn't do the same?
Oh - maybe you've mistaken me for a partisan supporter of the "other" party? You think I'm a Republican, so therefore I support the Koch brothers?
Get real. I'm an independent because I don't trust either party.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @11:03PM
We know you are an idiot, but since that is increasingly indistinguishable from being a Republican, we thought the identification to be warranted. Shut up, Runaway1966!
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @09:51PM
There are some who have assembled not so peaceably. Arrest them all you want. Others have been perfectly peaceful. They are exercising their Constitutional rights. Sorry you're so put out by that.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @04:43PM
Peaceful?
Oh right, silence is violence but property destruction is not. We're living in bizarro world at this point where every word needs a footnote to indicate that the accepted definitions have been reversed. Racism is "anti-racism". Peaceful is using explosives and fire and destruction. Looting is cool because it just means everyone can get stuff for free. Seriously, fuck you, fuck your dictionary, and get cancer. Soon.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @02:35PM (10 children)
Yes and yes. The courts did agree btw. Thousands were put in jail - we even had to get some busses from a neighboring state to transport them all. The justifiable homicide is when you're trying to drive down the road very slowly and not hit anyone, and they block your car, ,start pounding on your car and trying to get the door open. You are then legally allowed to floor it and run over as many as you need to make your escape.
any more questions?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @02:54PM (8 children)
The courts agreed that it's OK if I shoot commuters during rush hour? I don't think so.
As for people pounding on your car and trying to get the door open, that is indeed violence and assault. It's quite different from walking and perhaps carrying a sign and yelling.
Just like simply driving is different from playing bumper cars on the freeway.
(Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @06:06PM (7 children)
shoot commuters during rush hour? who besides you is talking about that? did your other personality make that up so you could say it's wrong?
walking and carrying a sign is fine. you're free to do so on the sidewalk and wait for the walk light at the intersection. if you do it in the roadway, you are breaking the law and need to leave or be arrested. If you refuse to clear the roadway, we are free to physically remove you. If you fight back, we are free to physically hurt you. If you try to physically hurt us, we are free to end your life.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @09:49PM (6 children)
Pedestrians always have the right-of-way. You've been drinking the Detroit cool aid, haven't you?
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @10:22PM (5 children)
ah, a foreigner I see. in this country, pedestrians have the right of way - as in you cannot hit them with your car. we also have jaywalking laws, which make it illegal for them to be in the middle of the road unless crossing on a pedestrian crossing light or otherwise indicated pedestrian crossing sign.
go back to poland or india or whatever shithole you're from you dumb fuck. don't bring your eastern europe to this country. your green card is a priviledge, and we'll revoke it if you live here like you lived there.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 18 2020, @10:38PM (4 children)
Actually, I am natural born American. I see you don't know a lot about U.S. history and did indeed drink the cool aid out of Detroit.
Have you ever been to a sporting event in the U.S.? Do you want all those fans tear gassed when the game is over? Typically the sea of fans pours out and blocks the roads for a bit as they head for their cars or public transit.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Saturday September 19 2020, @03:59PM (3 children)
Oh, it was clear you were american. Strange how you talk like an illegal immigrant from india or eastern europe though. A very stupid american.
It's legal for fans to block roads to head to transit. It's a planned event. The streets are blocked off for traffic, and detour signs are placed, with some streets blocked off from the crowd so cars can still get through. This is also near a stadium - on in a residential neighborhood. The question is, since you think the crowd from a sporting event is the same as the protester crowd - have you been to a sporting event, you polak?
(Score: 3, Funny) by sjames on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:29PM (2 children)
You seem quite confused. Can you do some sort of markup so the rest of us can tell which resident of your head is typing and if they are addressing the forum of arguing amongst themselves?
Thanks!
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Saturday September 19 2020, @11:09PM (1 child)
take an ESL class at your local community college buddy, then you'll understand what people type in English and won't be confused.
(Score: 3, Funny) by sjames on Saturday September 19 2020, @11:34PM
Read your replies to me so you'll know what your other personalities are saying.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:45PM
Read some of your posts here. Wow, you are fucking stupid! For the love of God please don't breed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @03:56PM (1 child)
Just to clarify, the ADS system is specifically designed to NOT be physically damaging. Painful, yes. (Hell, yes!) Damaging? No. I know this because I work with the people who designed it. It's purpose is to give US military forces a non-lethal option to disperse dangerous crowds in forward-operating environments. That being said, I don't know of anyone here who would condone using this on US citizens exercising their first amendment rights in public.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Friday September 18 2020, @05:55PM
I don't see me claiming anywhere that only microwave ADS should be involved. We currently deploy tear gas, tasers, and rubber bullets and beanbags (including firing them at the face).
No one is condoning using this on people simply exercising their first amendment rights. The 1st amendment does not give you freedom to break other laws. If you are protesting by blocking traffic in the middle of the roadway and leaving piles of trash when you walk through, you are breaking other laws and are a criminal. Please show me a single protest where they did not block the roadways and leave piles of garbage in the neighborhood.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:40AM
"protests" --- dripping sarcasm. CNN has become a meme -- fiery but mostly peaceful "protest". Fiery but mostly peaceful 9/11 flights. Fiery but mostly peaceful weekend in Hiroshima. Fuckers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday September 18 2020, @02:28PM (2 children)
> Fry them!
This was to clear the park of citizens so that the jackass could stand in front of a church with an upside down bible for a photo. A church that opposes his policies was his choice.
Wow. Real classy.
Yet Trump couldn't even cite one single bible verse as "his favorite" (during 2016 campaign). He said something like: I like the one where Jesus said an eye for an eye. That verse, Matt 5:38 means the exact opposite of the petty vengefulness Trump was thinking. Jesus said, loosely speaking: 'you have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I tell you don't resist an evil person, turn the other cheek...' etc.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @06:38PM (1 child)
Maybe he means that he likes the verse where Jesus said not to resist him?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 21 2020, @02:02PM
Then why not say that instead? He was clearly thinking about revenge, and falsely believed (no surprise) that Jesus advocated revenge.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday September 18 2020, @04:34PM (4 children)
I'll take: In a free country, police are not allowed to use force of any kind, lethal or non-lethal, against people not committing a crime. And in a free country, protesting is not a crime, nor is it treated like a crime.
The incident in question involved armed US government agents firing chemical munitions banned by the Geneva Conventions and beating people up for holding signs and chanting, running medic stations, and reporting on the events in question there (none of which are crimes), all so the president could get a photo op.
And there are an awful lot of Americans, a substantial percentage of them working for the police forces and other armed government agencies, who don't want to live in a free country.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @04:46PM (3 children)
Moron -- they're banned in WAR because first disabling your opponent before shooting them in the head is not considered an honorable way to fight. Using irritants to get rioters to disperse and then NOT shooting at them, is a whole different situation.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday September 18 2020, @06:52PM (2 children)
Anybody who has actually been in combat will tell you that they aren't concerned with whether the way they killed the bastards on the other side was "honorable". Chemical weapons were banned not just because of their effects on the opposing army (which was awful), but because a bad gust of wind can easily send that gas after civilians which had nothing to do with what was going on. Which indeed has happened with the common deployment of gas in US cities: If you hit a crowd of protesters, you also hit the people trying to get through or around the protests on their way to work.
And of course you're still trying to justify the use of government violence against people exercising their right to assemble which is quite specifically protected in the Constitution. Which means you're one of those who doesn't really care if you live in a free country or not.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @11:10PM (1 child)
Show me where the right to assemble includes the right to terrorize people, destroy their businesses, shoot and kill them, burn down public and private structures, destroy monuments, block roads, ramble through neighborhoods screaming "who do we protect? Black criminals" or "out of you beds into the streets", to blind people, physically assault people, burn books, censor, loot, and basically just be the worst garbage humans possible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 19 2020, @08:36AM
It's right there in the Declaration of Independence. What are you, a fucking British Loyalist! Burn his house! Hound him to Canada! Goddamned Monarchists! They should've all be hung. Just saying. You got my dander up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 18 2020, @08:56PM
The use of ADS should only be a last resort when it's moved from mere property damage to an imminent risk of bodily harm to non-participating civilians (NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT!)
The mere fact that they were inquiring about this, given the corneal damage it could cause, indicates that we've gotten past the point where America has any pillar to stand on (not that it ever did, but even the PR pillar is rapidly eroding now.)