Scientists Confirm Nevada Man Was Infected Twice With Coronavirus:
A 25-year-old was infected twice with the coronavirus earlier this year, scientists in Nevada have confirmed. It is the first confirmed case of so-called reinfection with the virus in the U.S. and the fifth confirmed reinfection case worldwide.
The cases underscore the importance of social distancing and wearing masks even if you were previously infected with the virus, and they raise questions about how the human immune system reacts to the virus.
The two infections in the Nevada patient occurred about six weeks apart, according to a case study published Monday in the medical journal The Lancet. The patient originally tested positive for the virus in April and had symptoms including a cough and nausea. He recovered and tested negative for the virus in May.
But at the end of May, he went to an urgent care center with symptoms including fever, cough and dizziness. In early June, he tested positive again and ended up in the hospital.
"The second infection was symptomatically more severe than the first," the authors of the study write. The patient survived his second bout with COVID-19.
[...] One of the biggest outstanding questions is how widespread reinfection might be. It's difficult to confirm cases in which a person is infected twice. Scientists must have the nasal swabs from both the first and second infection in order to compare the genomes of both virus samples.
Only the most advanced hospital and laboratory facilities have the equipment and personnel to do the genome sequencing and analyze the results. As a result, most cases of reinfection are likely going undetected.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:15AM (10 children)
Nevada is always different. You can't use them as an example!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:47AM (7 children)
Try San Francisco and Midwest [abc.net.au] then, good enough an example for yea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:06AM (6 children)
That's a trick post - the dude's from Oz. Aussies come in contact with crap deadlier than Covid on a daily basis.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:23AM (5 children)
...when at home. But he got infected twice in US, perhaps being used with deadlier crap he got a milder second.
Anywho, one starts to wonder how many other cases of double infections actually exist but little is known about them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 14 2020, @05:14AM (3 children)
Well, that's a good serious question. I made a sub early today that claimed antibodies remained in the body for about 4 months. Then I found another article that said 7 months. Actually, I don't think anyone knows - everyone is just guessing at this point.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @06:09AM
My guess there'll be a largish range. After all, it's the same family with cold viruses.
But until nobody will have time to look into it (dealing with the fire is not quite conducive to long time studies), we won't know it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @06:21PM
I don't know either but my guess is that November fourth is a critical day ;)
(j/k)
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Wednesday October 14 2020, @10:17PM
These things don't ever fit to a single data point. Nature doesn't work that way. Most likely there is a bell curve of outcomes.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday October 15 2020, @02:12AM
Or maybe he caught two variants that don't have cross-immunity, or maybe the reinfected are the rare sorts who fail to develop good immunity to random viruses, or maybe it wasn't a reinfection but one of those later flare-ups that some viruses occasionally do, but test negative in the meantime (canine parvovirus can do this, and there are also animals that never develop good immunity).
BTW, why we probably should still vaccinate for smallpox:
https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2020/10/articles/animals/pocket-pets/alaskapox-virus-yes-thats-a-thing/ [wormsandgermsblog.com]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:22AM (1 child)
Ah yes, the Republican brain. Devoid of anything and everything resembling intelligence. They are actually the result of Dr. Frankenstein's early work with Tapioca.
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:29AM
Something must've gone very wrong with that early work (large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:20AM (34 children)
People still believe that COVID-19 is something to be afraid of? Well maybe in the sense that stubbing one's toe is something to be afraid of.
No, Americans are just too smart to believe globalist bullshit. Those globalist shitbag "scientists" can't even agree on what COVID is or what to do about it, and now even normal-folks are admitting that lockdowns will likely go away after our election.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:32AM (2 children)
I stubbed a big toe in high school, it was dislocated at the 2nd joint from the end. Since I was invincible back then, I just gave a mighty yank and popped it back in.
I should have been somewhat more "afraid", and had it treated at the time. Because 30 years later it became osteo arthritic, bone is inflated so shoes hurt, and walking any distance is a problem.
Don't tell me about stubbing toes!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:45PM (1 child)
And what would a doctor have done differently? Pretty sure he wouldn't have "regreased" your joint, or whatever.
Your problems are likely due to inflicting the injury in the first place.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:13PM
The doctor would have charged him $50,000 for the same outcome.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:49AM
Fucking shit, Eth. Stay on your Jews, will you?
(Score: 5, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:44AM (22 children)
Presumably you're not talking about the 77% who believe in angels? [cbsnews.com]
There are 40% or so who believe god created the earth [livescience.com] 10,000 years ago so presumably they would be pretty gullible about other things too.
So people believe all sorts of stupid crap, even that the "globalist shitbag "scientists" can't even agree on what COVID is or what to do about it" which is almost as stupid as believing in angels.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:54AM (2 children)
Did you just call my religion stupid?
If I had a nickle for every chucklehead that has your superior smug attitude, I could cure all the wolrd's ills, except for self-righteous indignation.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:04AM
Do you really believe in angels? It just seems so unlikely. How many have you seen?
Also self-righteous indignation doesn't mean what you think it means.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:32AM
Yeap. 'Cause my freeze peaches, ya snowflake. Grow a pair, take it like a man.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:05AM (18 children)
Yea, clicked around on your link then saw a big fat round earth starting back. Link closed. Immediately.
Warn people before linking to pseudoscience, my parents would be embarrassed to see me looking at that picture.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:12AM (17 children)
According to this [scientificamerican.com] flat-earthers are only about 2% of the population, so not really worth bothering about no matter how funny they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:21AM (16 children)
Covid -19 deaths are only .015% of the world population, so I guess you don't care about them either then? 100x fewer people died of covid-19 than accept in the flat earth model.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:28AM (9 children)
Why would you argue some sort of numbers game there?
People actually died from Covid, and we can do things to keep those numbers low, if we're smart.
Only 2% of the population is stupid enough to believe the planet is flat. That is too many, obviously, but not enough to do any real damage, hopefully.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:42AM (8 children)
You are the one who basically called acceptors of the flat earth model subhuman and not worth caring about since they are only 2%.
So you must think covid patients are subhuman too by that logic. Or not really believe what you type.
Thou dost protest too much, me thinks. We've got a closet flat earther all, like all those homophobic senators that get caught at truck stops. We got him.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:47AM (2 children)
Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit, is it?
You're the one who used the term sub-human, and then put a bunch of words in my mouth.
Your logic is faulty, and I still didn't use that term.
You might be an idiot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:53AM (1 child)
Don't worry, once you come out of that round earth closet people will be more likely to share their beliefs with you. You will learn you are among friends here, Probably 50% here accept in the flat earth, same as you.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 14 2020, @08:42PM
Well, we know what the next poll should be then, don't we?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:17AM (4 children)
OTOH, believing in the flat earth is a choice.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:37AM (3 children)
Many can't choose to ditch the belief, they need a better developed frontal cortex. "Alt-abled", as they come.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:44AM (2 children)
Those of highest development can accept both the flat and round earth at the same time.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday October 14 2020, @05:24AM (1 child)
But first they must be miniaturized so they can remove the last grain of common sense from their own brains...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:05AM
It is just relatively. Depending on the reference frame you choose the earth can be seen as flat or round, mathematically it is equivalent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:32AM (5 children)
based on incomplete, non-standardized testing (different in different States of the US, let alone worldwide), and different definitions..
Global deaths are almost certainly higher than current estimates- and are still increasing.
Also don't forget the potentially lifetime disabilities some covid19 patients are now exhibiting.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:45AM (4 children)
Only 6% of deaths were from covid rather than with covid.
> For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm [cdc.gov]
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 14 2020, @08:21AM
over: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1318011/coronavirus-deaths-uk-public-health-england-covid-19-latest-news [express.co.uk]
under: https://www.rferl.org/a/coronavirus-counting-the-dead-different-countries-russia-usa-tajikistan-belgium/30624320.html [rferl.org]
no idea: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200417/how-accurate-are-coronavirus-death-counts [webmd.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @10:03AM (2 children)
That's not how comorbidities work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:03AM (1 child)
If they checked vitamin c levels of people who were dying they'd be saying like 80% of deaths are caused by vitamin c deficiency. According to the ridiculous definition used for covid that is.
Suddenly correlation = causation right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 15 2020, @09:26AM
That's not how comorbidities work either.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Gaaark on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:47AM (4 children)
My wife COULD die if she gets it as her immune system is non-existent from taking Calquence for her leukemia.
Not just a stubbed toe.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:43AM
Two stubbed toes?
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:47AM
A stubbed toe is definitely worth worrying about [wikipedia.org].
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 15 2020, @09:29AM (1 child)
Has she gotten her six month numbers yet? How are her platelets reacting lately?
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday October 15 2020, @10:15AM
my brain is gone right now (son not sleeping again....sigh), but it's telling me her numbers were at 70(?). Waaay down, anyways.
Very fond of Calquence right now.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Insightful) by epitaxial on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:35PM (1 child)
Yeah it's perfectly fine if your home has oxygen masks and a helicopter on standby to get you to a hospital. Oh and you get experimental medicines under the guise of "compassionate care". You know for regular folks that are circling the drain and don't have anything to lose.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 15 2020, @09:34AM
And that is what they will admit to having for him. Looking back on some events and archive footage knowing that their official timeline doesn't match up is quite interesting. And he isn't out of the woods yet. He is still obviously being medicated and there is still a chance he takes a sudden turn, which isn't uncommon with COVID-19.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:53AM
Immunity is not 100% until death.
Infectious particles do not "all die" magically at 28 hours on common surfaces.
Being exposed to a certain number of viral particles may, or may not, lead to infection of the exposed - depending on dozens upon dozens of factors.
Virology is a fuzzy science dealing in broad statistically defined ranges for just about all measures of interest.
How many viral particles travel in aerosol from one person to the next? It's a distribution that depends on the distance between them, whether they are wearing masks, what type of masks they are wearing, how much the vector is shedding, the breathing speaking and spraying habits of both, temperature and humidity of the air, sunlight intensity, velocity and direction of the wind - including gustiness, and many other factors.
If an infected person touches a common surface like a shopping cart handle, how likely are you to catch it from there? Now we can get into what kind of non-COVID biotic colonies live on the infected person's hands, the common surface, and the potential infectee's hands, nasal linings, etc. Again temperature, humidity, sun exposure, drying winds, any active or residual antiseptics on all surfaces in question, porosity of the surfaces, and on and on...
And, the answer is virtually never zero - or certain infection, it's a big fuzzy question - for a large number of people the answer is that they actually self-immunize through low dose exposures over time. Not all people by any means, maybe not even as many people as are dying from infection, but the spectrum of possibilities are all represented when you've got sample sizes of Billions.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:54AM (16 children)
Is it going to be more severe after a vaccine is administered?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:05AM (4 children)
Sometimes yes - the real question is: how often and how much. Good luck getting straight answers, it's going to be impossible to know until months after the vaccine is broadly distributed, and unbiased data is unlikely to be collected or released.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:56AM (3 children)
I already had virus pneumonia when I was a kid at school. Those days we knew that whoever gets it is way more likely to get it again. I did not, but my desk buddy at middle school from whom I probably got it had it like 10 times. He was out sick half of the time and I had the whole desk to myself. This is bad shit all right.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday October 15 2020, @02:28AM (2 children)
About 20 years ago a viral pneumonia was circulating in my town.. a free vaccine was available but was not widely used. I was the only person I knew who'd had the vaccine. I was also the only person I knew who didn't do time in hospital for viral pneumonia, and in one case it progressed to meningitis.
[No, this was not pneumococcal pneumonia, tho y'all might want to get that vaccine too. And flu vaccine too, since at least in mice this bacterium needs influenza virus to propagate.]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday October 15 2020, @02:57AM (1 child)
Interesting. In my times they would just close some schools for awhile to keep it under control. What kind of vaccine if you remember and don't mind me asking?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday October 15 2020, @03:13AM
By now I have no idea. I get the flu vaccine religiously every year (have noticed that makes me less likely to catch much of anything) and probably asked if there was another I should have, and there it was. I vaguely recall it was killed virus vaccine.
This pneumonia mainly went around in the over-50 and retired set, far as I knew. Then again my crowd were all too old to have school-age kids.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:12AM (10 children)
Yes, just published today. The antibodies against the spike protein (same the vaccines are targeting) can make you sicker, especially if you are old or otherwise already at risk for severe covid-19.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.08.20209114v1 [medrxiv.org]
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:05AM (7 children)
There's a question, however, of how common that reaction is. If it were common we'd have expected to see signs sooner, since that's something people have been watching for since the start of the work on vaccines.
OTOH, if one of the possible side effects of a vaccine is "next time it may kill you", they aren't going to be very popular, even if the result is unlikely.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:22AM (2 children)
What study would you have expected to see it? This is the first one to look to my knowledge.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:22PM (1 child)
Everyone who's building a vaccine has been watching for this kind of reaction. This is why one vaccine is base around a chimp virus....so nobody will already have a reaction to it.
Most of the vaccines require two shots, so a bad immune reaction to the second shot is really undesirable. This isn't the first study by any means. Most of the studies haven't found any severe induced reaction. A couple have had things that caused the development to be paused while the reaction was studied to decide whether it was safe to continue. (So far the ones I know of decided it was safe, but the details are proprietary so outsiders can't validly second-guess them...yet.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:11PM
You only expect to see it under certain circumstances. I'd, when antibodies have waned or in old animals, patients. Have you seen a study where they look for it?
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:38AM
Vaccine might reasonably protect most, but help to kill some especially ones on social security. Given a huge economic incentives of having such an effect, the propaganda will push it with all it's might.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:41AM (1 child)
Do you feel lucky, punk?
Point: statistics or not, if you get it, it won't be only x% or your body to get it, you will get it in full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:25PM
Valid, but nothing's completely safe, not even breathing. So the question is "How dangerous?". And probability is the best tool we have available to answer that kind of question.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @12:18PM
"What good is a phone call if you are unable to speak?"
The antibody-dependent enhancement is a quite well known phenomenon, and the reason why there is no good vaccines against some bad infections in animals. One example is feline infectious peritonitis (FIP), a 100% deadly thing; I had a young cat succumb to it.
"Feline infectious peritonitis (FIP) is caused by one of several strains of feline coronaviruses which are grouped into 2 general types of viruses. Infection of cats with FIP virus results in production of serum antibodies which may be protective in conjunction with cell mediated immunity, may provided no protection at all, or may produce an immune enhancement to subsequent exposure to another FIP virus or a recrudescence of the original infecting virus. Attempts at immunization of cats against FIP with inactivated or live FIP viruses have been generally unsuccessful, and often sensitizing the cat through immune enhancement rather than providing protection."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2829570/ [nih.gov]
https://www.vetinfo.com/preventing-feline-fip.html [vetinfo.com]
Cats are not political animals, so veterinarians are not pressured to tell all is 146% perfect.
Sources for your further enlightenment:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12725690/ [nih.gov]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement [wikipedia.org]
https://rybicki.blog/2020/04/11/antibody-dependent-enhancement-in-coronaviruses/ [rybicki.blog]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:52AM
I.e., if the Chinese researchers are to be believed, immune reaction against the thing is a lottery; either your body generates proper neutralizing antibodies and you go on to be "recovered patient", or the Great Random gives you a set of virus-enhancing ones instead, you get to be "severely affected", and go on to add to statistics.
Given "The enhancement of SARS-CoV-2 entry into cells was more commonly detected in plasma from severely-affected elderly patients", one can suppose that antibodies to other coronaviruses acquired earlier in life may serve as enhancers to this one, and that is why the virus disproportionately affects the elderly.
What that also means, is that a vaccine is likely to be the same kind of a lottery as an actual infection; you get to believe you are "protected" but with some (unknown) probability exactly the reverse happens, and when you contract the real deal you're totally out of luck then.
The ADE phenomenon is well-known, the actual biochemical mechanism described does make sense, so I'm inclined to believe it be good enough science despite the questionable source.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @07:15PM
Thanks so much for this. Whoever you are, great find, and appreciated.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @05:48AM (1 child)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic-idUSKBN26X2H6?utm_source=reddit.com [reuters.com]
(Reuters) - The number of new COVID-19 cases rose 11% in the United States last week compared to the previous seven days, with infections spreading rapidly in the Midwest, which reported some of the highest positive test rates, according to a Reuters analysis.
Deaths fell 3% to about 4,800 people for the week ended Oct. 11, according to the analysis of state and county reports. Since the pandemic started, nearly 215,000 people have died in the United States and over 7.7 million have become infected with the novel coronavirus.
Twenty-nine out of 50 states have seen cases rise for at least two weeks in a row, up from 21 states in the prior week. They include the entire Midwest except Illinois and Missouri, as well as new hot spots in the Northeast, South and West. (Open tmsnrt.rs/2WTOZDR in an external browser for state-by-state details)
In Idaho, 23.5% of more than 17,000 tests came back positive for COVID-19 last week, the highest positive test rate in the country, according to data from The COVID Tracking Project, a volunteer-run effort to track the outbreak. South Dakota, Iowa and Wisconsin also reported positive test rates above 20% last week
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @06:17AM
Trump increasing the infection rate in his voting base, with his "Learn to live with it"? Who'd thunk it?
Wise? With the cold season approaching, it may backfire badly during the election. After that, it won't matter for Trump anyway, useful idiots and cannon fodder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by choose another one on Wednesday October 14 2020, @09:17AM (14 children)
Along with the first death from re-infection: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8834799/Dutch-woman-80s-person-die-infected-coronavirus.html [dailymail.co.uk]
and the earlier re-infection reports from India: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/gmc-sees-goas-first-cases-of-covid-reinfection-in-doctors/articleshow/78482762.cms [indiatimes.com]
ok, so the death was an immuno-comped cancer patient (same risk category as yours truly but probably far more like an actual "would have died soon anyway"), still, shows it happens.
Big thing is as per summary, data and tech required to confirm means "most cases of reinfection are likely going undetected".
Immunity clearly lasts only months, yet in those months most places (even no-lockdown Sweden) have only infected 60%, without herd immunity showing up, so that's how far we have to get, at least, in a small number of months otherwise immunity is lost. Clearly not happening. Also, clearly there is no "immunological dark matter" ( the high localised attack rates show that) protecting those who haven't got it yet, most likely just luck, so far (covid is overdispersed, spreads in clusters, see e.g. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ [theatlantic.com]
So that just about wraps it up for herd immunity then. Undeterred, Messrs Levitt Tegnell et al go on to prove black is white and get themselves shot by security at a protest, because, you know. lives matter.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:11AM (7 children)
Yes, this why when antibodies wane quickly that "flattening the curve" is the exact opposite of what you want to do if your goal is saving lives. Governments around the world have murdered so many of their citizens this year.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by choose another one on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:42PM (2 children)
To be scrupulously fair, "flattening the curve" does save people if it keeps the epidemic within health care capacity (without which death rate is much higher), and may also save people if it delays onset until better treatments or vaccines are found. It is clearly better than "letting it rip", but stopping spreading it entirely until it's eliminated would be better, but requires collective action from vast majority of the population. too many places this just isn't deliverable.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @06:56PM (1 child)
The only reason there was risk of overrun hospitals is putting people on ventilators they never came off of, based on advice from the WHO that was in turn not based on any evidence at all. This killed 99% of the patients in NYC early on after 2-4 weeks using up resources and prolonged suffering.
And even in NYC there was an empty hospital ship, Christian field hospital, and javits center hospital. Despite those empty hospitals, the gov of the state ordered covid patients into nursing homes to spread it more.
Just don't do those retarded things and you'll be fine.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @07:14PM
Ok Ivan
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @07:17PM (3 children)
What? Your quote says that "not flattening the curve" doesn't give herd immunity... so your conclusion is to save lives, flattening the curve is bad?
Your non-logic is exotic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @07:39PM (2 children)
Wow, you are really confused about what you just read. Just sit back and leave the thinking to others.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday October 14 2020, @09:57PM (1 child)
Herd Immunity to a cliff
If enough people walk off a cliff and fall to their deaths, eventually there will be so many dead bodies piled up at the base that the rest of those who walk beyond the edge will survive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @10:24PM
Currently they're testing 999 people to find one positive, then 999/1000 of those positives found will be fine. Yet you are quivering in fear.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:24AM
It'll probably end up like an endemic or seasonal disease like common cold or seasonal flu. Seems humans have been getting the same four strains of coronavirus-type "common cold" for ages.
If the country is rich, you shouldn't aim to let everyone get it ASAP, since more people will die when the healthcare systems are overloaded. And if too many people die, that also affects the economy.
If the country is poor (e.g. GDP per capita is similar to the covid test/treatment cost), there's not much you can do anyway (you can tell people to wash their hands etc but in too many cases clean water sources are far away or nonexistent and there's no soap). Lockdowns and common covid-19 restrictions will just cause lots of poor to die of hunger.
If the country is "middle income" then it's trickier...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 14 2020, @11:53AM (4 children)
It's a bit early to draw sweeping conclusions based on something that happened a whole 5 times worldwide.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @01:42PM
We DoNt KnOw!!1! Lockdown now!
Until the election.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Wednesday October 14 2020, @03:37PM (2 children)
It's happened a few times worldwide that we know of and that have been rigorously proven, which requires non-trivial effort and expense. It has probably happened many more times already where either the data wasn't available to prove it or the effort wasn't expended, and this is after only 6 months or so.
Besides which, Disproof by counterexample requires only a single counter example. You could of course still prove that herd immunity was a viable goal by showing somewhere that has achieved it, but despite many valiant efforts we're still waiting for that one (in contrast several places have shown it can be successfully suppressed, and still others have kept it out completely)...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @09:33PM (1 child)
Having to explain basic science is why this place makes me tired. Thanks for the solid response.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @10:26PM
Arguing against a strawman (infection is impossible) is not basic science.
No one ever thought it was impossible, that wouldn't make any sense and would be counter to everything we know.