from the putting-things-into-perspective dept.
[2020-11-20 02:51:10 UTC; Had used worldwide daily death count (10,970); correct value for US single-day deaths was 2,065.--martyb]
[How many Soylentils personally know of someone who has contracted or died from COVID-19? Please accept my condolences for your loss. --martyb]
The terrorist attacks of 9/11 — the deadliest in world history — killed 2,977 people:
During the September 11 attacks of 2001, 2,977 people were killed, 19 hijackers committed murder–suicide, and more than 6,000 others were injured. The immediate deaths included 265 on the four planes (including the terrorists), 2,606 in the World Trade Center and in the surrounding area, and 125 at the Pentagon. The attacks were the deadliest terrorist act in world history, causing the death of over 500 more people than the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.
In just one day — yesterday, Wednesday, November 18, 2020 — COVID-19 took the lives of 2,065 people in the US. At that rate, in excess of 86,000 more Americans will die between today and the end of the year. Deaths tend to lag infection onset by about a month. As the case rate experiences exponential growth, expect a commensurate increase in deaths before year's end.
U.S. Surpasses 250,000 Covid-19 Deaths
The COVID-19 death count continues to increase. The US hit the grim milestone of 250,000 deaths yesterday.
The United States has recorded a quarter-million Covid-19 deaths, the latest NBC News numbers showed Wednesday, and the death rate has been accelerating in recent weeks as cases have been surging across the country.
The 250,000th death was logged Wednesday morning, the data revealed.
In the last four weeks there has been a 42 percent increase in the number of fatalities, from a weekly average of 821 per day in early October to last week's average of 1,167 per day, according to an NBC News analysis of the available data.
And a year after the first Covid-19 infection was reported in China, people were dying in America at a pace not seen since mid-August, the analysis showed.
[...] In addition to deaths, the U.S. leads the world with 11.4 million Covid-19 infections, the NBC News figures showed.
"Right now, we are in an absolutely dangerous situation that we have to take with the utmost seriousness," Dr. Brett Giroir, the Trump administration's coronavirus testing czar, told MSBNC's Andrea Mitchell. "This is not crying wolf. This is the worst rate of rise in cases that we have seen in the pandemic in the United States. And, right now, there's no sign of flattening."
Covid-19 Has Killed 250,000 People in the US. That's 10 Times the Deaths From Car Crashes in a Year
Covid-19 has killed 250,000 people in the US. That's 10 times the deaths from car crashes in a year:
Health experts say if Americans don't get more serious about wearing masks and avoiding careless socializing, the rate of deaths will keep soaring this fall and winter.
Here's a look at how deadly Covid-19 is, compared with several other causes of death in the US. To get a more balanced picture, we took the five-year annual average ending in 2018, the latest available year of data for most causes.
[...] Coronavirus has killed 250,000 people in the US in less than 10 months, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.
[...] On average, 24,166 people die each year in car crashes, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
[...] That means at least 10 times more people have died from Covid-19 so far this year than car crashes typically do over an entire year.
[...] An average of 42,200 people died from the flu each year from 2014 through 2018, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
So in less than 10 months, Covid-19 deaths have reached more than five times the average number of annual flu deaths.
The new coronavirus isn't just deadlier than the flu -- it's also much more contagious than the flu.
[...] On average, 45,439 people died by suicide from 2014 through 2018, according to CDC data.
[...] Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US. An average of 670,595 people die from heart disease each year, according to CDC data.
[...] An average of 612,725 people die of cancer in the US each year, according to CDC data.
[...] An average of 141,952 people in the US die from strokes each year, according to CDC data.
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @02:23AM (11 children)
The good news is you're off by one order of magnitude [worldometers.info], the reported number is 1970 (hey, what's a zero among friends! --grin--).
The bad news is the trend in daily deaths is still upwards in US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by martyb on Friday November 20 2020, @02:39AM
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @02:48AM (4 children)
Apologies for the words I used in the title, I did not intend to mean or imply martyb is fishy, but that's how it looks like.
My reaction to the number was "Something's fishy about it, I remember the deaths/day being in the 1k range for US rather than 10k", dotted out the title of my comment and then went to check. I forgot to adjust the title before hitting the submit button.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:08AM (3 children)
And, aristarchus_ (note the underscore following) and Runaway 1957 are the same person! Oh, my god! Dupe! Dupe submits! How will SoylentNews survive this? But actually, the question is how many more have to die before we get the Reality TV show charlatan out of the White House.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @03:15AM (2 children)
Don't wanna dupe, see here [soylentnews.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @01:22PM (1 child)
We have a new nasty strain of covid where I'm at. Highly virulent and 99.999% asymptomatic so it very easily spreads silently. They shut down the city for six days because it was found on pizza boxes here.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @09:57PM
Or you have someone lying to contact tracers. It's not like it cannot happen. [abc.net.au]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 20 2020, @03:51PM (4 children)
World 56,555,289 +615,177 1,354,101 +10,970 7,256 173.7
And that 10970 is the 10970 that martyb quoted. Your number really looks like it's pulled out of your arse.
And your snarky tone sucks too. It's alright being snarky if you are straightening something bent. But bending something that's straight is a completely different action even if you thought you were doing the former. Which is why *I* can tell *you* to get bent.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @09:59PM (3 children)
FatPhil, better sort this out between you and bytram. And read the yesterday's IRC log.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday November 21 2020, @12:19AM (2 children)
I saw what I saw. It's up there, for all to see. To me that looks like you were just plain wrong. Which bit of that do you dispute?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday November 21 2020, @12:56AM (1 child)
My blockquote was how the original page made the first page before correction.
Follow the link in my first comment and take the number of deaths for US for the Nov 18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday November 21 2020, @11:36AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:24AM (17 children)
The death rate is decreasing. In an epidemic: The most vulnerable die first, medical treatments improve, and the virus tends to evolve to become less deadly. Also, a certain level of immunity is established in the population. You don't get it twice (except for a couple individuals who will make the newspapers).
It is this way in every epidemic.
This is a manageable health issue.
Do I personally know people who got it? Yes, and they all recovered. No hospitalization.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:36AM (9 children)
BS.
The death rate is decreasing because COVID has been spreading across less vulnerable populations, younger, healthier people instead of inside nursing homes. There's also more testing than in March and April, so the case fatality rate has dropped. But a large portion of the US hasn't been infected yet, including a lot of vulnerable populations.
As for the virus evolving to become less deadly, that's also BS. We will adapt to the virus, yes, but there's no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is mutating to become less deadly.
There's a theory that OC43, a coronavirus that now causes the common cold, started spreading in humans around 1889 and caused a pandemic that is known as the "Russian flu." There were multiple waves of infection that lasted for a few years. Symptoms were very similar to COVID-19. Humans adapted to the virus eventually. We will get back to normal sooner because of multiple vaccines that are likely to be approved. We can reduce the death toll dramatically if we follow logical and sensible precautions until the vaccines are widely distributed.
As for your anecdotal evidence, it has no merit. Your small sample is not representative of the larger population. Even a small percentage of people being hospitalized amid a huge pandemic can and will overwhelm hospitals.
Yes, COVID-19 is manageable. We need logical, common sense public health measures until the vaccines are widely distributed. That means masks, hand washing, social distancing, and avoiding large crowds. It means people working from home whenever possible. It means skipping large gatherings at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's for one year. It means that restaurants need to be limited to take out or outdoor dining and bars should only be serving people outdoors. If we do this for a few months, we can save a lot of lives between now and when the vaccines are widely distributed.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:29AM (5 children)
You jumped all over my statement that the people I knew that got COVID recovered completely from it.
I was directly answering the question asked in the story: "How many Soylentils personally know of someone who has contracted or died from COVID-19? Please accept my condolences for your loss. --martyb"
As for your statement that in past viral outbreaks, people "adapted" to the virus, please tell me how that is any different from what I said that in the early stage of an epidemic, the most vulnerable die first, and the survivors who had caught it develop immunity to it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:02AM (1 child)
Fair enough about the first part. I now understand your intention there and apologize for that. I'll accept that you meant well. Your comment read like some of the AC misinformation and BS that gets posted here, but I believe you are replying in good faith. I have a strong distaste for misinformation and I shouldn't have jumped on you. To your credit, you said this was manageable. That's in contrast to the BS that we can't do anything about this because it's an infectious disease and we shouldn't try.
But I do question the part that you can't get this virus twice. We don't know that. We don't know how long immunity lasts. Antibody levels decrease fairly rapidly after infection. The question is whether T-cells will be sufficient to prevent reinfection. Perhaps you can be reinfected, it just tends to be milder because of the T-cells that were produced during the first infection. We just don't have a good handle on that. However, I just don't think adapting to this virus requires vulnerable populations to die. We can prevent that by taking prudent measures to manage the pandemic until a vaccine is available.
From your reply, I believe you're posting in good faith and I apologize again. Without the context, it read like an AC troll. To answer the same question you did, my immediate family has taken precautions and none of them have tested positive. However, I've had students in my class who have been quarantined and I believe a couple of them have been infected but are getting better. I've been fortunate that I'm not aware of anyone I know personally who has died from this crud.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @06:54PM
misinformation? you stupid bitch ass slave. You probably fund the IRS like a good little slave, send your dumb little kids to the state brainwashing facility instead of doing your fucking job as a parent, and watch tv news like it's not complete BS. You probably walk around with a surgical mask like a retarded coward. They'll probably slow kill you with the vaccine then tell you it's "anti-vaxxers" fault somehow and you'll be moaning like a fucking zombie trying to eat our brains. fuck off and die already, you pathetic piece of shit.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:07AM (1 child)
Different AC. You must be new here. This is the land of the very highly triggered. They'll dispute things you never wrote.
Sometimes it's fun to toss in a lump of cheese and watch all the rats tear each other to shreds. Sometimes it's just depressing.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:35AM
I jumped on the original AC because I believed he was trying to spread misinformation. There are a couple of issues.
1) It's probably misleading to say the death rate is going down. We didn't have as much testing back in March and April so the case fatality rate was higher back then. It doesn't mean that the virus is becoming less deadly, though. A lot of the deaths back then were the result of the virus spreading rampantly through nursing homes and long term care facilities. We have done a better job of protecting those facilities and the vulnerable populations they house. I disagree that the virus is becoming less deadly. There isn't any evidence that the virus is evolving to become less deadly.
2) A significant majority of the population still hasn't been infected by this virus. We're nowhere near the point where the virus has swept through the whole population and the most vulnerable people have been killed by this virus. We never have to get to that point, either. We can take common sense measures for the next few months and then work to get as many people as possible to accept a vaccine.
The comment read like a lot of the bad faith misinformation so I assumed it was. The worst of the AC trolls generally don't return to try to clarify their comments so I give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he was posting in good faith. But the incivility is due in large part to the amount of misinformation that's posted.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Friday November 20 2020, @05:45PM
There's also the title of your post "The epidemic is petering out...". Glancing at US death rates [wikipedia.org], I just don't see this alleged petering out of death rates. The rate as absolute number per unit time is higher at present than it's ever been.
I'm aware of about 15 people (from a pool of about 500) who are known to me to have been infected by COVID. Two of those are dead from COVID and a third almost died.
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday November 20 2020, @04:45PM (1 child)
BTW, this old pandemic killed 1 million out of 1.5 billions people. Let's be generous and set a threshold at 1000 per million. Still, 8 American states are already above it. So much for the science and medicine improvements over 130 years.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by khallow on Friday November 20 2020, @05:48PM
Jump out a 10 story window. 130 years of science and medicine improvements won't help much in that case either.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Saturday November 21 2020, @06:14AM
>can and will overwhelm hospitals
Exactly right, and we're already within sight of hospital overload. Tulsa has run out of ICU beds. Exponential growth means it will get worse fast.
Even if beds are available personnel is a limiting factor.
I've canceled visiting my aging father this Christmas, with his agreement, and am working ever closer to a self-lockdown.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday November 20 2020, @07:45AM (5 children)
How nice for you.
And I know someone who got it and died in a hospital.
250,000 people are DEAD, that means that someone lost their best friend, wife, husband, son, daughter, mother, father, sister, brother, uncle, aunt, cousin, etc.. For every 1 person who dies there are many, many more who will suffer from the loss.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:10PM (1 child)
Not to mention that many of those that do ultimately survive infection wind up with long term disabilities due to lung, heart and/or kidney damage from the virus.
It's absolutely ridiculous that when vaccines do become available that grocery workers won't be in the first tier getting the vaccinations. Hospital workers getting it is great, but they don't spread covid around the way that grocery workers do. Even with the masks and other measures, there's a large number of grocery workers that don't get tested and are asymptomatic spreading it around. They don't get to just stay at home as somebody has to continue to distribute food and there is no hazard pay or other compensation being paid for the risks. In fact, for much of the pandemic, the unemployed were making more. At this point, after the payments have been cut off for months, it might finally mean that the grocery workers have been paid more than the unemployed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @09:24PM
Don't forget that unemployment only lasts so long. The first of the people put on unemployment are about due to fall off.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Friday November 20 2020, @05:12PM (1 child)
Lots of Darwin Awards for the anti-mask crowds. The sooner they die the better. It will remove a source of infections and emphasize that masks protect people.
It will also raise the average IQ of the remaining population. So, win. Win, win.
Cruel, but if they don't give a shit about anyone else, why should we care about them? Let them reap what they sow.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 25 2020, @02:04AM
It will do exactly the opposite for all survivors, if dying people have lower IQs! IQ is normalized; whatever an individual's IQ is, it goes *down* when the dumbest of their cohort disproportionately die.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @06:57PM
"250,000 people are DEAD"
Yeah, *maybe*, but of all kinds of shit. Not just Covid. Just how dumb are you?
(Score: 2) by https on Friday November 20 2020, @06:54PM
Does telling lies let you sleep better at night? People who treat lies like these as fact are more likely to die (and take some honest people with them).
This is not a joke. This is not a drill.
Next, you're going to be telling people they should flip a coin to determine which side of the road they should drive on today.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:26AM (47 children)
Trump is incompetent. He's incapable of leading the country and the pandemic is getting worse. Trump needs to be removed via the 25th amendment. He can tweet about the election almost non-stop but he can't be bothered to even attend the first COVID briefing in months. Trump isn't doing his job because he's too busy sulking and watching OAN. Even Fox News has had enough of his BS. We can't afford to wait until January 20 for real leadership. Our hospitals and healthcare workers will be completely overwhelmed well before then if we continue on our current trajectory. It's time for the 25th amendment.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:41AM (20 children)
What the hell would the point be?
Even if Trump is painting the walls with his own faecal matter, he'll be out in under two months, and in the interim he's a lame duck.
Adding that process would just be political poison to no practical end. It would look like vindictive action, not statesmanship. Biden is already going to have a hell of a time getting half of the country to trust him, let alone go along for the ride, and to add this would be to poison the well further.
Seriously, what would the actual point be?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @02:50AM (8 children)
A lame duck that refuses to do something about the epidemic in US and refuses to let others do something about it.
This is no longer criminal negligence, this is premeditation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:10AM (5 children)
Impeach him again. There is nothing saying you cannot impeach a lame duck president, if he is committing high crimes and misdemeanors, and generally fucking up at being President. Impeach him again! They said it couldn't be done! Some say, it is the greatest impeachment, ever! Trump has to go out on the superlative, and what better way than another impeachment!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:14PM
Yes, but that assumes that A) The Democrats want to do better and B) That they have the votes in the Senate and C) That the GOP wants to do better. I doubt any of those things is actually true here though.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by cmdrklarg on Friday November 20 2020, @03:22PM (2 children)
Waste of time. Sure the House could impeach, but the GOP controlled Senate won't convict, no matter what.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Saturday November 21 2020, @02:48AM (1 child)
The last time they voted to keep him was pre-COVID-19. I'd like to see them make their argument again, especially when his successor might even start bringing down death rates, and be able to cast their party as able to course-correct with Biden only continuing the efforts and strong vision* they started, and not as a savior, if his administration ends up improving the situation.
*Little bit of a dry heave on that one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 21 2020, @07:02PM
Naw, the Republicans have got that shitstain Mitch McConnell as the Senate majority leader, who would have no problem making that argument again, with a completely straight face, while the GOP and their supporters would eat it right up. Trump will be gone soon. It's Mitch McConnell that needs to be removed from office ASAP if we want to make any progress.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by khallow on Friday November 20 2020, @05:59PM
"IF". The first impeachment would have had a chance of sticking, if they had actually come up with genuine crimes for the impeachment.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday November 20 2020, @05:16PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 21 2020, @02:28AM
This assumes he had any adults in his Cabinet to begin with. You would have to prove that first. Article 25 also assumes that the members of his Cabinet have spines. There, too, I think you are assuming something not in evidence.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:52AM (7 children)
Biden can't invoke the 25th amendment. But you knew that. Trump's cabinet has to invoke the 25th amendment. Biden can't remove Trump from office. Republicans can, specifically those in Trump's cabinet.
The point is to save lives. How many people have to die between now and January 20 because Trump sits on his hands and sulks over the election rather than govern the country through a real crisis?
You know what's fracturing the country? It's Republicans, allowing this shitshow to continue unabated. It's allowing Trump and his lawyers to peddle one conspiracy theory after another while a pandemic rages. Republicans could unify this country and make Biden's job easier by ending the BS.
Trump's layers can peddle BS day after day, becoming crazier and crazier with zero chance of winning. They can lie to the American people every single day but the coronavirus task force can't brief the American people for months. And when they do so once, they can't take questions from the press.
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @03:02AM (5 children)
In the most optimistic scenario - with universal mask and lockdowns - about 100k extra deaths [healthdata.org]
Probably 200-300k+ extra deaths is the things go as of now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:21AM (3 children)
Could you please explain how Trump or no Trump will make a difference? Will Biden declare himself dictator and do something that Trump didn't? What, pray tell?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @04:32AM
At the very least get the "keep the freedom for yourself, give the death experience to your grandma" fool [complex.com] out of the picture.
Can continue with involving the Army in regaining the control over epidemic - extra beds in campaign hospitals where hospitals are overflowing [covidactnow.org] (ATM, there are 3 states that run out of ICU places), case tracking logistics, extra nurses and doctors that can take part of the load and move from place to place (they're army, they are ready for deployment at any moment, unlike the civilians).
Can coordinate the effort and resource allocation between states, after all the death count far exceeds any natural disaster from the recent history - we're talking about 2000 deaths per day, that's a higher count than the Hurricane Katrina [wikipedia.org] every day.
Do any of these things sound weird to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:56AM
c0lo already did a good rundown, but if Trump had simply told the truth (haw haw) and encouraged mask wearing and social distancing then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Liberals wouldn't be mad about COVID if the GOP hadn't fallen in line with Trump's lies and actively worked against all medical safety advice.
The damage is now done, and too many Republicans will continue not wearing masks and gathering in large groups. As c0lo said unless we pull out the military and throw people into isolation cages all we can bank on is Biden's leadership and hope that enough people wear masks and social distance that we can stop overloading our hospitals and slow the infection rates.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday November 20 2020, @06:53PM
He could replace Trump family members with, y'know, doctors, on the COVID Taskforce.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday November 20 2020, @05:19PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Friday November 20 2020, @03:25AM
Unfortunately, too many Republicans are in denial and so are fully prepared to warm Trump's bottle and powder his tushie. It's also unfortunate that a lame duck is dangerous because he no longer has to consider what effect his actions have on his re-election. Of course, the Republicans SHOULD be concerned with what his actions do to THEIR chances at the polls in the next election.
Alas, any 25th amendment action would likely be blocked until Trump is dragged out of office anyway.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:36AM
China Joe is not my President!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday November 20 2020, @05:33PM (1 child)
One word: Scorched Earth
What happens when a narcissist loses? Expect "rage" and "terror," psychologists warn [salon.com]
"A truly significant loss… may trigger not only a reign of terror but destruction without limit," one expert says
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 21 2020, @03:00AM
I just read that salon article and...wow! It looks like it was published on October 28, right before the election, and just about everything he predicted Trump would do if he lost has already happened!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:28AM (20 children)
Will someone please specify what will be different without Trump? Stop saying "leadership" - what specifically will be different? How, specifically, will Biden fix the pandemic?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:40AM (5 children)
Everybody will finally wear a mask and, like magic, that little piece of paper will be the impenetrable barrier that renders us invincible. Oh wait! No, people will get a highly effective vaccination for coronavirus to stop the epidemic. No, wait, that's already been developed!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:10AM (4 children)
My legitimate fear is that more people will not wear masks just to protest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:07PM (1 child)
Darwin would not be proud.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday November 20 2020, @05:35PM
Darwin would be proud to have his theory supported by additional evidence.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @07:03PM (1 child)
the masks don't help you stupid motherfucker. they probably make things worse by not stopping the virus from infecting you for shit, and being a petri dish for bacteria. wake the fuck up. i guess you think the twin towers (and fucking building #7 which wasn't hit by any goddamn plane) felldown at free fall speed into their own footprint b/c an aluminum plane crashed into it near the top? just how dumb are you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 22 2020, @05:45AM
not as dumb as you =) you're free to wash your mask every day, and the only bacteria it breeds are those coming off your already infected face!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:11AM
Um, the leadership? Telling us that we need to pull together, and as the Cable Guy says, "Git 'er done!", instead of all this conspiracy nonsense about Trump economic policy (of which there is none) or Trump leadership (of which there is none), or of Stephan Miller sticking it to his middle school BFF, who he found out was hispanic, and so not jewish enough to be white, so we have to separate the children, hispanic children, before they can be in American schools, and befriend young Stephans, whether Miller or Bannon, thus leading to the totally disfunctional self-hating jewishness the Horowitz brought upon us. Poor bastard, Stephan, after this, no one will hire him, not even the Four Seasons Landscaping Company. Not Hispanic enough to work well with others.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:20AM (2 children)
Well, for starters, we need an administration that won't politicize common sense health measures like mask wearing. Trump needlessly made that a divisive issue.
We need an administration that doesn't spread misinformation and claim the pandemic is getting better when the opposite is true. The decisions need to be guided by science, not political expediency.
Instead of telling states to fend for themselves, we need an administration that will take the lead on procuring the necessary supplies like PPE and demand Congress pass legislation to adequately fund state-level efforts to mitigate the virus. That means funding for testing, funding for contact tracing, and funding for other needs like unemployment for people who will be economically harmed by this virus.
We need an administration that will invoke the Defense Production Act to require companies to produce the chemicals and supplies we need for adequate testing in the US.
We need an administration that doesn't hide and obscure data, particularly critical information like hospitalization levels. We need transparency. The agencies that are responsible for the data at the federal level are within the executive branch.
Trump could direct that his administration cooperate with Biden's transition team. That won't be relevant in a Biden administration for another four or eight years, but it's a direct failure of leadership.
You know, back in January and February, a lot of right wing social media was talking about the "novel coronavirus" spreading in China, saying it posed a huge threat in the US. They encouraged people to buy masks and stock up on goods. They took it seriously until the Trump administration started spreading BS. The president has a lot of power to influence people through words and actions. Wearing a mask, telling people to take this seriously would have a big impact, even if it's not using official presidential powers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @07:34PM (1 child)
"common sense health measures like mask wearing"
you're stupid. also, fuck you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @07:58PM
Reality doesn't care about your feelings snowflake.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:49AM (3 children)
Stop saying leadership? Why? Are you triggered about your MAGA idiot who just completely lacks the ability?
As another poster said some people will be protesting mask mandates because Trump told them to not wear a mask. So no matter what Biden does we'll have probably at least 25% of the population not wearing a mask and engaging in dangerous group activities.
There is nothing else that can be done without enacting martial law. At the very least though we'll have the POTUS telling people actual advice instead of wild conspiracy theories.
Have you forgotten about Woodward's interview? Trump KNEW the virus was deadly in February and told people it was a hoax and not to panic, then he kept pushing not wearing masks. He LIED to you with the excuse that he didn't want to start a panic, which is ridiculous and you should be offended for being treated like a child WHILE being put in further danger.
I hope you can get over Trumpism in the near future, it is sad that he conned so many people and the entire GOP followed in lockstep. I'm sorry you and yours were victimized, and I truly hope conservatives can regain their values. As much as we yell at each other here we're all Americans and we have much more in common than not, and I have no ill will for the non-racist not-murderous conservatives and I hope you can do the same.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @07:05AM (2 children)
I don't have "Trumpism" moron. You have ASSumptionism. One of many problems with you Democrat herd is your attitude that anyone who doesn't drink your Kool-aid and talk your talk is therefore a "Trumper". I'm not even a conservative. I'm very conflicted because I'm mostly liberal, but in no way will I join the raucous rude condescending violent insulting riotous Democrats.
You commenters are all making good points but I'm sticking to my story- nobody has shown me, verbally, how Biden will be less of a "dictator" / "fascist" but somehow more people will wear masks. Doesn't add up. Simple logic here.
What you may not understand, because you seem to herd more than the Republicans, is the Republicans, and whatever derogatory terms you have for them, are far more independent than you realize. The non-maskers (idiots) are not doing it because Trump- they're doing it because arrogant Democrats. And you Democrats are so proud and haughty you won't back down, apologize, and ask nicely.
That's what I'm afraid of. Simple human nature: people do NOT like to be controlled. You Democrats are all up in flames because some people are showing (idiotic) independence, which is the American Spirit. I absolutely agree it's idiocy, but learn from some psychology and stop ridiculing people and acting so haughty and condescending. You're just pissing people off and guess what, they're going to contradict you just because you're so arrogant. Idiocy, but it's human nature. Learn about it someday.
I never heard Trump say "don't wear masks", but I don't listen to him anyway, and that's the point.
And before you argue your pissy argument, at the beginning of the pandemic the MEDICAL people asked us to NOT hoard masks, that they needed them and masks were in very short supply. I've had my own private stock and have been wearing them since the beginning.
People are free to, and encouraged to wear masks. It's amazing to sit up on the hill watching the battle and seeing you Democrats being the ones who are divisive, triggered, making political footballs out of everything.
I will enjoy the conversations going forward. I hope Biden is the Great White Hope. You wanted it, you got it, so now you Democrats can show everyone how great you are.
(Score: 1, Troll) by sjames on Friday November 20 2020, @11:11AM
Drinking Pepsi mixed with maple syrup is independent thinking, drinking turpentine is stupid.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @06:48PM
Trollolololol
"I'm not conservative but those eeeeebbbbuuuuulllll democrsts"
Uh huh, ok buddy. If you were not a Trumper you'd just say so instead of going on a huge rant. Why are you worked up about the word leadership? Nevermind, pointless question, you started the conversation just to trash Biden and make yourself feel better that yer orange anus lost. Good luck with that Trumpism, sounds lime it burrowed deep!
PS: Biden is nothing special, he simply is an adult that is not a little baby fascist.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Friday November 20 2020, @01:31PM
I sometimes find it useful to compare the pandemic with a tsunami. Both are virtually unstoppable forces of nature.
Imagine the President Of the United States of America standing on a beach in front of a huge approaching tsunami with his arms out yelling "Stop!"
(yea, right about now you probably like that image a little too much :P )
In the case of a tsunami, a leader would do long term things like:
-Push for and support programs to detect oncoming tsunamis and predict when/where/how bad they might hit.
-Push for and support plans to build and locate infrastructure to minimize damage where possible.
-Constantly promote and consider science and techonlogy that may provide new ways of dealing tsunamis.
-Support plans of action, such as evacuation, when an tsunami is detected.
-Call in immediate emergency support such as military and medical when a tsunami hits.
-At a high level, make sure resources get to where they need in a timely manner.
-Push for and support plans to help rebuild, provide aid to people, and getting people back to work after a tsunami hits.
I shouldn't even have to mention basic things like staying informed, understating the details of the situation, listening to other leaders, asking for support from the community, keeping respect for the situation, and not denying the problem exists.
As it was, trump didn't even say "stop". He was standing on the beach playing with his tweeter, pretending there wasn't a problem, and firing anyone who disagreed.
(Score: 2, Troll) by legont on Friday November 20 2020, @02:01PM (2 children)
Liberal propaganda will talk the pandemic into nonexistence.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:09PM
It seems Conservative Hot Air has no effect.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @08:02PM
Didn't your SCROTUS say it was a hoax? Wasn't it supposed to be gone by now? So hard to follow the ever shifting conservative, umm, reality.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 20 2020, @04:34PM
Noone worth listening to is claiming he will. He might fix the *epidemic* that is in the country that he would be in carge of, but the rest of the world is in control of the rest of the world, and that's where the *pandemic* is happening. (Yes, NTS rocks!)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday November 20 2020, @06:55PM
Jared Kushner will be replaced as the head of the COVID Taskforce with someone who knows what the fuck they are doing.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Friday November 20 2020, @04:17AM (4 children)
Yep, just like Emperor Nero.
Trumpy golfs while americans die.
What do you expect from a malignant narcissist.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:38AM (2 children)
Do you work 24 hours a day? Biden was missing for weeks at a time during his "campaign." Was he in a basement touching children? Or was he making more "deals" via his crooked son?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @07:10AM (1 child)
He's just a libtard asshole troll. Ignore him. His username screams arrogance, just like the rest of the libtards.
Spock is so logical, but he can't explain how Trump is an evil "fascist dictator", but oh wait, he's also supposed to dictate whatever the Democrats choose as their political football.
No, Biden was being responsible. He was sniffing a wig collection.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 21 2020, @02:39AM
Oh, I'm sorry! Does it offend you that reality has a well-known liberal bias?
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday November 20 2020, @10:26AM
I'll godwin this, but only because its appropriate.
Analysis: Trump’s bid to spread misinformation and sow doubt [apnews.com]
For those who don't get how the above is godwining, here's how: the Nero Decree [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday November 20 2020, @02:45AM (4 children)
Sure, you can "cry wolf" a few times. But seriously, how many dead bodies [youtu.be] do you need before people should accuse you of malicious intent and collusion with the predators? I bet it's because the virus doesn't leave bite marks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @03:34AM (2 children)
And yet you're still alive. I will bet you'll even be alive to complain after the election is finally, 100% over. So will everybody on this website. I'd bet money on it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:59AM
you're not wrong, you're just stupid
weird for those to go together, but you crazy kids pull off a lot of nutso stuff
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday November 20 2020, @06:20AM
... but you will never know that, yet you will still claim it to be true. If you think that one of the final acts of a dying person will be to contact this site and tell us that he is dying of CV then you are even more stupid than your earlier comment suggests.
I have family members who have contracted CV, and their recovery is far from certain at this time. With over 250,000 dead in the USA alone, what is to say that some of them haven't ever visited this site? Or do you believe that to be the case simply because they didn't bother to tell you personally?
(Score: 2) by bussdriver on Friday November 20 2020, @06:59AM
I figure about 18% higher than official number; based upon past numbers I've seen reported of the delta between typical death rate, the actual death rate and the covid death rate reported; the metrics differ by state.
If I die from a heart attack because they have no time for me, then I'm a covid death. If I don't go in for a problem that was preventable then covid caused my death just as we'd punish somebody who blocked your ambulance which resulted in your death; we should blame 1 step removed causes.
Proof for all the indirect deaths is difficult to do; however, trends and stats can show approximate numbers. I figured about 18% back mid summer... probably higher now after the CDC changed counting metrics.
We should put deniers on record and then make them LAST priority for help when they get it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by deimios on Friday November 20 2020, @03:33AM (3 children)
This wasn't in the US but might aswell been:
Two cars involved in a crash, the culprit didn't check according to the rules and ran into the other guy.
The other guy was seriously hurt and died at the hospital in a few hours
But since the blood test showed that the victim had COVID-19, his death was counted as a covid death.
The prosecutor had to fight the system for two months to be able to change the cause of death so that he could prosecute the guy who caused the crash.
So keep an open mind about corona death statistics. Yes they are high but also they are inflated.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:40AM
It's even worse in the US, as a Covid death guarantees that the insurance has to pay the healthcare provider.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Friday November 20 2020, @02:41PM (1 child)
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 22 2020, @05:50AM
So the REAL death count is now 500,000+
goddamnit
(Score: -1, Troll) by darkfeline on Friday November 20 2020, @04:10AM (9 children)
And what would the death rate have been if not for covid? A lot of people who died "of covid" would have died for other reasons, even if a few months or years later. The covid death toll is meaningless if you don't subtract out the control death rate. In the coming years, the death rates for many other conditions are going to plummet because the people who would have died then died "early".
Of course, many people died solely because of covid, but if you presented those numbers it wouldn't sound as good.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:13AM
Um, less? Evidently you are to stupid to understand differential rates, or statistics in general. I recommend you go back to gnawing at your groin.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:40AM
Or COVID will leave a lot of previously healthy people with chronic long term conditions that will increase death rates in the coming years.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Friday November 20 2020, @05:34AM
Literally everyone who dies of anything would eventually have died of something else, possibly years later. So nothing at all is dangerous?
(Score: 4, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday November 20 2020, @10:21AM
Excellent point!
On that note, I'd like to mention that no one actually died of terrorism on 11 September 2001; no, it was the falls or the smoke or the fire or the blunt trauma that did it. They just *happened* to be in an area that had recently experienced a terrorist attack. No correlation at all.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TheRaven on Friday November 20 2020, @02:44PM (3 children)
According to the CDC, it would have been about 300,000 fewer people [cdc.gov]
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @02:55PM (2 children)
That includes suicides from lockdowns? Cancer deaths because government closed hospitals for anything but Covid and patients couldn't get treatment?
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday November 21 2020, @04:11AM (1 child)
Yep, it includes all potential confounding factors, as it is merely an aggregate death metric compared against a historical average. Of course, attributing any of those deaths to such confounding factors doesn't fit prevailing agendas.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 25 2020, @02:13AM
I mean, if you look at your claim holistically, you can see cracks. There is no alternate-history 2020 to compare against. 2019 had a (slightly) different world population, demographic makeup, less of a worldwide fire season, asbestos is still banned but cigarettes aren't dead yet, etc etc. "All potential confounding" is myopic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:19PM
We do not know the long-term effects of covid on death rates.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by stack on Friday November 20 2020, @04:20AM (6 children)
Everyone knows those numbers are inflated beyond measure. They count car crashes [1], motorcycle accidents [2], gunshots [3], stabbings [4], or had a seizure and downed in the bathtub (super sad that it happened; worse that people abuse the memory of a child to push a narrative)[5]. Those numbers are rubbish and everyone knows it. Which is why the narrative switched from deaths to "cases" which are any and every test regardless of if it is true positive or not. Every test, regardless of if it is the same person testing over and over again in order to go back to work (true story for my friend who couldn't work until he got two negative tests 2 days apart so he took a test every 2 days and it was crap shoot as to when he got negative or positive results a month after he was sick with a sneeze - yet all those tests were "cases").
I've had it (still in lockdown after a week) - yes lost taste for two days, but that's happened with a head cold. Honestly, if this had been any other year, I would have said it was a head cold. Congestion for a few days, runny nose, a little ache in the morning, but other wise feel great. Take an advil and a few vitamin boosters - just like I do when I have a cold or the flu - and it's fine. Wife and kid had it, just a bit of congestion. Sister and her husband + 3 kids - same thing in a different state. Brother and his wife + 4 kids in a different state said it was like a flu.
I'm up to over 50 people I know across multiple states who've had it. Everyone's story is about the same. And that's what is everywhere on the internet that isn't profiting from pushing scary fear-based mainstream media "news".
Aren't we glad we killed the economy and created a world of fear for the sniffles?
*sigh*
Go ahead. Bury me. No one wants the truth if it doesn't align to their fear based politics these days.
[1] https://www.newsweek.com/florida-man-killed-crash-listed-covid-19-death-raising-doubts-over-health-data-1518994 [newsweek.com]
[2] https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death [fox35orlando.com]
[3] https://www.rt.com/usa/489409-washington-gunshot-deaths-coronavirus/ [rt.com]
[4] https://www.westernjournal.com/washington-inflates-covid-19-numbers-includes-gunshot-victims-among-deaths/ [westernjournal.com]
[5] https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/us/georgia-boy-covid-19-death-drowned/index.html [cnn.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:57AM (3 children)
1) This is one case. One case isn't sufficient to establish large scale irregularities.
2) This is the same case as in the first article. Irregularities aren't a good thing but one misdiagnosed death does not demonstrate large scale issues.
3) RT isn't credible, but here's a more accurate assessment of the situation [clarkcountytoday.com]. Five cases aren't great, but five cases out of 1000+ deaths in the state at the time does not equate to vastly inflating the data. My link provides a larger context about the issues with the reporting system.
4) This refers to the same issues as the third article.
5) The article indicates that COVID caused a seizure, which led to the drowning. The child didn't have underlying health conditions and had a high fever caused by the infection. Although drowning is the direct cause of death, implicating COVID is far less egregious.
The problem for you is that there's a high number of excess deaths. There's a valid point that some of the excess deaths are the result of elective procedures being postponed due to COVID. But there's also a significant amount of deaths that weren't attributed to COVID but were the result of respiratory illnesses that may well have been undiagnosed COVID. Worse yet, if hospitals become overwhelmed this winter due to COVID, it will prevent people from receiving treatment for other serious medical conditions. The direct cause of death won't be COVID, but our failure to prevent the spread of COVID will have prevented those people from receiving the necessary treatment.
(Score: 0, Troll) by stack on Friday November 20 2020, @03:18PM (2 children)
You've mostly missed the point. Unfortunately, I was quick on the web search and just pulled the top hits which gave you a valid reason. I was trying to stand out in that I can at least provide sources to back why I think the way I do compared to all the people calling BS on someone elses post where neither cite anything at all.
The point I was making was that there are LOADS of stories out there of people attributing all kinds of obvious deaths to COVID when it wasn't COVID that killed them. Anyone can search and find story after story. And that's /after/ many of the stories just disappear when it's proven that it doesn't fit the MSM narrative.
I don't just think that there's an excess of deaths, I think that the vast majority of them are purposefully misleading because that's where the money is for hospitals and where the fear is for the MSM. Even of those that are "valid", fall into the fact 94% had underlining causes [1] - it could have been anything that got them anyway. For people under 69, there's a greater than 99.5% survival rate PER THE CDC! [2]
Remember, it was only 9 months ago that Fauci was telling us that there would be 2.2 MILLION deaths if we did nothing, but that even in "best case" we were looking at almost 1 MILLION dead in the US alone by _summer_. And remember how people got so angry and upset when Dr Birx countered and said a death toll of 200,000? [3] Guess she was closer to being right after all - where are the apologies from the people who ranted/raved about her back in March?
Yet here we are in November, people above are complaining that Trump has killed all these people because we did nothing. Yet we are making a big deal of 250,000 THAT WE KNOW IS AN INFLATED NUMBER! So the number is blown out of proportion, people just want to blame Trump, and not a damn news outlet is apologizing for any of the many many misleading (or flat out lies) they've told this year.
Another thing that drives me nuts, is someone publishes a paper saying something outrageous - then the media catches hold and turns it into a fear-storm of propaganda. People use it to shout "SCIENCE!!!", but when that paper is retracted not a damn one of them owns up to being wrong. It's just "forgotten" - except when some just hold on to it as a talking point refusing to hear the reasons why it was debunked. Science has become a weapon and only when it matches a narrative. The /very/ first place I check now when someone mentions a published COVID paper is retraction watch [4]. It's sad how many of those are highly published fear-pieces.
COVID is a political weapon. I don't care who it is, R or D...the left wing and the right wing are both a part of the same festering corpse. Biden isn't going to change anything - it's still crony politics; it just changes who the benefactors are. And of course, the MSM won't ever publish anything negative about him. Regardless, as long as it remains a weapon that people can use to berate someone for not wearing a mask, nothing is going to get better - and the politicians and media have no reason to not use it as a weapon.
[1] https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-us-had-underlying-medical-conditions/ [fox8.com]
[2] https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/25/cdc-data-shows-high-virus-survival-rate-99-plus-for-ages-69-and-younger-94-6-for-older/ [breitbart.com]
[3] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dr-deborah-birx-predicts-200-000-deaths-if-we-do-n1171876 [nbcnews.com]
[4] https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/ [retractionwatch.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @06:54PM (1 child)
A breitfarter! How nice when someone just outs themselves as a propaganda swallowing chump.
(Score: 1) by stack on Sunday November 22 2020, @11:27PM
CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NY Times, Washington post, Huffington, et al - They are all propaganda. And they've all been busted for lying in the last year. Not only are you hiding behind the anonymous coward, but you resort to names? That's the best you've got? Really?
And yes, I read a plethora of sources because I'm clever enough to be able to think for myself. I want to know what every side is saying so I can make an informed reasonable decision. Especially when there's a topic one group really doesn't want to cover because it hurts their narrative.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @04:59AM (1 child)
European countries were already nanny states before the coronavirus.
In America, we tend to value our freedom more, but we do have our sections of the country that are just as bad as any foreign nanny state. I am convinced that the extra-virulent treatment by pols and media toward this not-terribly-deadly virus versus the others we have faced like H1N1 is because it was an election year and another cudgel to make President Trump look bad. The press didn't say that much under Obama when H1N1 hit.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2020, @06:14AM
Here's an article that provides some much-needed context about the H1N1 pandemic: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992 [politico.com]. No, the Obama administration did not handle it well. Here's one of the things the article says about it:
Again, let's be clear, the Obama administration botched the response to H1N1 and got lucky. They weren't prepared despite excellent efforts by the outgoing Bush administration to prepare and train their counterparts in the new Obama administration. The Bush administration's efforts to run through mock crisis scenarios is the gold standard for how transitions are supposed to happen. The above quote explains exactly why Trump's actions now are so incredibly dangerous. The Obama administration was unprepared for the crisis in 2009 despite Bush's efforts. Trump's obstruction of the Biden transition team is hindering the ability of the incoming Biden administration to be prepared and fully staffed.