Russia's space chief is hopping mad over most recent US restrictions
On Monday the US Commerce Department released a list of Chinese and Russian companies that it says have military ties. The list designates 58 Chinese and 43 Russian companies as "military end users" and requires exporters to obtain a license before selling them products. Such licenses are unlikely to be issued.
[...] The list includes several space companies in China and Russia, including the Progress Rocket Space Center in Samara, Russia. This company develops and manufactures the Soyuz rockets that have carried Russian and US astronauts to the International Space Station for the last decade after the US space shuttle retired.
The inclusion of the Soyuz manufacturer drew a swift rebuke from Dmitry Rogozin, the leader of Russia's space corporation, Roscosmos, on Tuesday. In his heated statement, Rogozin said the restrictions were "illegal," and he characterized them as "stupid."
"This Samara enterprise manufactures the legendary Soyuz-2 launch vehicles, with the help of which the Soyuz MS spacecraft has been taking American astronauts to the ISS for 10 years already," he said. "Now, it turns out that our American colleagues have their 'trampoline working' again, and the first thing they did is spit into the Samara well. Isn't it too early, colleagues, in case your 'trampoline' breaks again suddenly and you will have to satisfy your passion for space from our well again?"
Earlier, Rogozin had demonstrated yet again that SpaceX is on his mind:
However, as he shared photos and video of these operations on Twitter and Facebook, the chief of Russia's space program, Dmitry Rogozin, could not help but take what he perceived to be a swipe at SpaceX. In his comments, Rogozin referenced Boca Chica, where SpaceX is building a prototype of its Starship Mars rocket, and wondered whether SpaceX would be capable of working in as harsh conditions as his hardy Russian experts.
"This is not Boca Chica. This is Yakutia, and in winter. The team in the area of the fall of the second stage of the One Web mission was deployed two days before yesterday's launch. Temperature - minus 52°," Rogozin wrote on Facebook. "I wonder if gentle SpaceX is able to work in such conditions?"
The irony, as noted by some users in response to Rogozin, is that "gentle" SpaceX engineers do not need to brave inclement weather to recover their rocket stages. They have built a smarter rocket. SpaceX designed the Falcon 9 rocket's first stage to return to land or set itself down on an autonomous drone ship for future reuse. And its second stage can be commanded to reenter the atmosphere and burn up.
Related: Russia Space Chief Spars with Elon Musk Over Launch Pricing
Russia's Space Leader Blusters About Mars in the Face of Stiff Budget Cuts
Russians Not Happy with Moon's Privatisation
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Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
The head of Russia's space agency on Saturday accused Elon Musk's SpaceX of predatory pricing for space launches, which is pushing Russia to cut its own prices. "Instead of honest competition on the market for space launches, they are lobbying for sanctions against us and use price dumping with impunity," Roscosmos chief Dmitry Rogozin wrote on Twitter.
Rogozin, who is often outspoken on Twitter and previously engaged in online banter with Elon Musk, on Friday raised the issue during a meeting with President Vladimir Putin.
He said the Roscosmos space agency "is working to lower prices by more than 30 percent on launch services to increase our share on the international markets." "This is our answer to dumping by American companies financed by the US budget," he said. The market price of a SpaceX launch is $60 million, but NASA pays up to four times that amount, he said.
Musk responded to the criticism Saturday by saying on Twitter: "SpaceX rockets are 80% reusable, theirs are 0%. This is the actual problem."
Russia's space leader blusters about Mars in the face of stiff budget cuts
The leader of Russia's civil space program appears to be increasingly disengaged from reality. In recent months Dmitry Rogozin, the chief of Roscosmos, has given a series of interviews in which he has made all manner of big promises about the supposedly bright future of Russia's space program.
For example, in an interview published just today, Rogozin made the fantastical claim that his country's space program has the technical means to reach Mars and land cosmonauts there within eight to 10 years. If Russia is ready to finance such a plan, Rogozin guaranteed that Roscosmos stands ready to deliver.
Russia, Rogozin also recently said, is ready to do reuse better than SpaceX and the United States. SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket, he said, is only "semi-reusable," and Russia aspires to build a 21st-century rocket capable of 100 flights. He then reiterated that Russia would like to develop a version of its Soyuz rocket that has a methane-fueled engine.
SpaceX has flown its Falcon 9 first-stage rockets five times, and it plans to push toward reusing each booster 10 times. It is not clear what, if any, steps Russia has taken toward reuse. The reality is that Russia depends on reliable but decades-old technology to get into space. And while Rogozin talks a good game about sending his cosmonauts to the Moon or to Mars, and about competing with SpaceX on reusable rockets, this appears to be mostly bluster.
If you are still under any illusions about the state of Russia's space program, now is the time to dispel them.
Previously: Russian Space Agency Abolished and Replaced Following Financial Violations
Price War Between SpaceX and Russia
Russian Rocket Builder May Have Replaced Special Alloys With Cheap Metals
NASA and Roscosmos Release Joint Statement on ISS Leak Amid Rumors
Head of Russian Space Agency Roscosmos Wavers on Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway
Russia Space Chief Spars with Elon Musk Over Launch Pricing
Picked from Google news, TASS writes (TASS - Russian News Agency)
MOSCOW, October 27. /TASS/. The issue of the US intention to extract mineral resources on the Moon will be discussed at the 75th session of the UN General Assembly at Russia's request, the State Space Corporation Roscosmos told TASS on Tuesday
[...] "The corresponding item has been included in the session's agenda. The issue will be raised on behalf of the Russian Federation in line with the procedure accepted at the UN," Roscosmos specified.
Roscosmos Chief Dmitry Rogozin earlier stated that the Moon's privatization contradicted international law and Russia would not allow this.
Previous Reporting: NASA Says it Will Pay Private Companies to Gather Moon Rocks
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Frosty Piss on Tuesday December 22 2020, @10:30PM (11 children)
Roscosmos has not (or is unable to) kept up with technology, instead relying on almost ancient designs that have been updated only marginally from original designs. They are lashing out instead of fielding not just “next gen” Soyuz designs, but all new designs. They have no one but themselves to blame.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday December 22 2020, @10:38PM (2 children)
Sorry, they have themselves to blame for military-related sanctions, because their designs are outdated and extremely safe and proven? This is what you're saying. What you were trying to say is "completely offtopic, but their tech is very old, and no one wants to use their rockets, so they only have themselves to blame for being outdated." Which is completely false, as, well, Russia wants to use them, and that's a huge fucking country. America wants to use them when we don't have a rocket available. Other countries without rockets want to use them, because it's dirt cheap, and extremely safe - a poor country is not going to risk their expensive payload on some comparatively completely unproven spaceX tech.
Here in the real world where we don't smoke crack, the military sanctions were issued against companies doing a lot of... military business. Such as the Progress Rocket Space Center, which has huge military contracts in addition to making this rocket.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 23 2020, @08:16AM (1 child)
Roscosmos was the cheapest. SpaceX changed that.
It's going to get much worse for Roscosmos. Starship burns methane. Besides being a cheap fuel, it doesn't leave soot in the engines. Getting a rocket back in the air is going to be much faster.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Wednesday December 23 2020, @03:17PM
Roscosmos a guaranteed launch with the safest longest proven world record was the cheapest, now a methane burning starship that so far has only had success exploding and isn't even fully developed is the cheapest. I gotcha.
Hint hint, even going with the non-starship rockets, spaceX is not cheaper nor safer for anyone but america. Nor do they have the launches, proven safety record, or scale available for the world to use like russia does. Russia consistently launches 30+ rockets per year. Comparing that to spaceX is like comparing tesla to GM. spaceX is cute and shiny - people don't care, they want to get work done, not play with a toy.
But you're right, the current spaceX cost is about 1/3 less than russia is charging. Or was charging, because they came down 30% and now charge the same as spaceX.
So the only way your "math" works is by using starship for comparison, not current spaceX tech. So making up future prices for something that doesn't actually exist, assuming russia won't charge even less when it does exist, and completely ignoring the decades it takes to prove the safety of new tech and iron out the problems.
it's a very cool little virtual world you've created for yourself, too bad the rest of us don't live in it.
My proposal is much cheaper. You get into your car and drive to space. Because in my fake world you can turn off gravity, drive on air, and also there's air in space. So spaceX is dead buddy, because driving my old kia beater up there is much cheaper.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 22 2020, @10:38PM (1 child)
Let us bear in mind that the US had to hitch rides off the Russians for a number of years. We couldn't put a crewed ship into space after the space plane program fell apart.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday December 23 2020, @03:58AM
OTOH, wasn't the launch paid for? At the price they set? In a seller's market?
If I have things figured correctly, he's reasonably pissed that the US has reacted to Russian espionage by cutting him off, when he didn't have anything to do with, and probably didn't know about, the espionage. But the rightful target of his ire is his own government. But that's a bit dangerous. I doubt that he had any choice about the military connection. Certainly you could show a military connection to SpaceX or any other government approved aerospace company.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 5, Funny) by RamiK on Tuesday December 22 2020, @11:18PM (4 children)
If the Russian craft was inferior to the American craft, the US wouldn't have needed to sanction its use.
compiling...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 22 2020, @11:40PM (3 children)
Hmmm. Yes, you've given some food for thought, at the least.
I think everything the Russians have, is inferior to what Elon Musk is spearheading. Of course, I think everything else the US has is also inferior. Musky Boy is doing shit that NO ONE else has done, and doing a fair job of making it look easy. When there are fifteen other companies, located in fifteen different nations, who are routinely doing the same stuff as Spacex, then we can start a new discussion about inferior programs.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 3, Interesting) by unauthorized on Wednesday December 23 2020, @04:21AM (2 children)
On the contrary, Russian trains actually work.
Err... try again. The only venture of his that has never been done before is the aforementioned HyperFail, and for good reason - vacuum tubes are unrealistic at scales at a large scale via modern materials. Electromotor powered road vehicles is a 19th century tech, first pioneered by Gustave Trouvé in 1881. Reusable rocketry was first prototyped by NASA over 30 years ago. Satellite Internet technology is older than Windows 98.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday December 23 2020, @01:50PM (1 child)
That's an odd statement considering the term "Internet" came about to describe the US' and Britain's satellite-interconnected network that resulted from the adoption of the SATNET proposal (early 70s) to ARPANET via the deployment of TCP/IP (early 80s).
That is, the very first "internet technologies" were developed, tested and deployed for satellite comm with the physical equipment routing and bridging TCP/IP in or out of the lab first being deployed at the satellite interconnect before being expanded to telephony and ethernet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATNET [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite#Adoption [wikipedia.org]
compiling...
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Wednesday December 23 2020, @02:30PM
I was going by the layman definition and only considering instances of satellites being used to provide satellite to endpoint connection, but if you want to include backbone carrier networks then you're right.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday December 23 2020, @04:33AM
He continued by calling President Trump a "poopy-face" and claiming he'd tell on him to his boss in Moscow.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 22 2020, @10:37PM (1 child)
Regozin is jealous that his masters keep him in near-Arctic conditions, while the competition gets to work in near-tropic conditions. Maybe Musk can hire Regozin as chief of security in Texas? The change would probably improve Regozin's outlook on life. Until the next hurricane, anyway.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 24 2020, @01:08AM
How are vodka prices in TX vs Russia? That would be his make-or-break metric.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday December 23 2020, @03:11AM
His "taunt" that due to superior tech, SpaceX engineers don't have to go chasing after their fallen rocket parts in the Arctic rings a bit hollow.
He's the one who gloated about the U.S. depending on Roscosmos for space launch capability and suggested we get a trampoline. Offered in the same spirit, perhaps he should buy his critical parts and materials from China! Perhapos he can get some good earplugs from Amazon so he won't hear Mao laughing in his grave.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 23 2020, @05:42AM
Doesn't matter. Rogozin has as much relevance to the space as a pig. Both technically take up space, but that's it.