from the reach-out-and-touch^W-kill-someone dept.
An iPhone 12 can shut down a pacemaker just by being near it:
According to a new study published last week in the journal Heart Rhythm, placing an iPhone 12 over a pacemaker can shut the lifesaving unit down.
That's in large part due to the magnetic field put out by the Apple device's MagSafe charging technology, a magnetic array on the back of the device designed to make wireless charging easier.
The researchers from the Henry Ford Heart and Vascular Institute found, chillingly, that the circular array of rare earth magnets around a central charging coil were able to completely suspend the operations of a Medtronic pacemaker.
"Once the iPhone was brought close to the ICD[*] over the left chest area, immediate suspension of ICD therapies was noted which persisted for the duration of the test," the paper reads. "This was reproduced multiple times with different positions of the phone over the pocket."
[*] ICD: Implantable Cardioverter Defibrillator.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Wednesday January 13 2021, @02:36PM (13 children)
It's a very short article, total word count of just 537. But from the images included they appear to be placing the device (iphone) on the patients bare chest. But other fitness tracking devices can apparently do it from about 2.4 cm (or about an inch).
https://www.heartrhythmjournal.com/article/S1547-5271(20)31227-3/fulltext [heartrhythmjournal.com]
I guess there will be some kind of warning sticker now then that you really shouldn't have your phone in your breast pocket (shirt or jacket). You probably shouldn't have it in your pants either since it probably doesn't do wonders keeping it so close there either.
Upside being that Apple might have found a new lucrative side business of covert assassinations. iKill!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @02:41PM (9 children)
it's not "you" who shouldn't keep it in their shirt pocket. it's "them who have pacemakers".
(Score: 4, Interesting) by looorg on Wednesday January 13 2021, @02:45PM (8 children)
If it works on a distance of 2.4cm I can keep one in my shirt pocket and hug, or just stand really close - sort or like a packed subway cart, someone with a pacemaker to kill them. I don't know but I didn't get the impression from the article and paper that they would just drop dead if next to a device, only that it would sort of disable or shut down the device.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:19PM
For my father... That would be dead. His heart rate has so slow that when he was sleeping it would reach 13 beats per minute, before the pacemaker. In the 80's we had EMTs show up when is monitoring system could not read his heart rate. It fell below 25 beats per minutes, the lower limit of being "alive".
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:22PM (2 children)
Think about that just a bit more. At a distance of 2.4 cm, roughly an inch, it shuts the pacemaker down. At what distance can it interfere with the pacemaker, without actually shutting it down? Maybe 3 inches? So, you may not need to be crowded into the subway as tightly as you suspected, to mess up some stranger with a pacemaker. And, bear in mind that the iPhone being tested is probably brand new, and working entirely within factory parameters. A malfunctioning device may possibly be more lethal.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:34PM (1 child)
Magnetic fields from something like a magnet (not a broadcast radio wave) drops off *dramatically* with distance.
Try to pick something up with a typical magnet from 4 inches away. It's like nothing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:38PM
I will add that your hypothetical of being pressed against another subway passenger's body during rush hour while their iPhone is a couple of inches away from your heart could present a problem for this gentleman.
Answer: Don't do that. Screw crowded public transportation and crowd packing in general.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:31PM
good point, thank you.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @04:33PM
Not a Dr. nor cardiac tech, and not to ruin a perfectly good discussion that's off on an incorrect tangent due to incorrect assumptions, but, the magnets only temporarily disable the defibrillation, not the pacemaking.
No question that someone would likely die if they go into VFib (ventricular fibrillation), but AFib (atrial fibrillation) happens to many people from time-to-time ("palpitations", "skips a beat", etc.)
Point is, the magnets are a problem, but not a guaranteed death to the pacemaker patient.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @04:37PM
Magnets do NOT shut down the pacemaker, only the ICD (defibrillator function).
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 13 2021, @04:45PM
If it works on a distance of 2.4cm I can keep one in my shirt pocket and hug, or just stand really close - sort or like a packed subway cart, someone with a pacemaker to kill them.
Yes, but the problem here is: how likely is it that your assassination target will have a pacemaker?
If your goal is to just kill a random person with a pacemaker, that might not be so hard to do. But if your goal is to assassinate a particular person (such as someone that Putin doesn't like), the odds of them having a pacemaker are poor. However, anyone on Putin's hit-list who has a pacemaker better watch out. I wonder if there's a way of preventing this, perhaps by wearing some kind of shield (like an undershirt that has metal woven into it, or has some aluminum foil over the pacemaker).
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:46PM (1 child)
Father inlaw (gone now) had a pacemaker. I showed up about 20 years ago with a borrowed Prius (hybrid electric), when they were new on the market. He was nervous about getting into an electric car with the pacemaker. Since this seemed like a reasonable concern I checked into it.
Through a friend, I got in touch with the US-based engineer who was in charge of FCC approvals for potential electromagnetic interference. Toyota had put the Prius through a full set of tests and the word was that any normal use of the car would be safe, non-interfering. Servicing the Prius (opening modules, etc) could be a different story.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday January 15 2021, @02:15AM
servicing/working on the batteries and charging circuits with a pacemaker could be a problem..
..but how many people would know what caused the pacemaker to play up, when they likely only have it checked once a year?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Wednesday January 13 2021, @07:19PM
It's actually strange Apple is being singled out here. It looks like the issue is caused by rare earth magnets. Well, both of my vape pens have two of those to hold in the juice pod. I put that in my front shirt pocket all the time.
something else that often uses those magnets? earphones - I put those in my pocket too. I put 2.5" hard drives in there, being a storage guy. And while my heart is fine, I'm 100% positive that a whole bunch of obese IT people have a heart device of some sort.
here's a fun read from a decade ago:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22353166/ [nih.gov]
"An implantable cardioverter-defibrillator (ICD) experienced electromagnetic interference from a laptop computer's hard disk. The patient with the ICD was using his laptop computer at home while lying on his bed. The laptop was positioned on his chest, when he heard a beeping sound from the ICD, indicating magnet mode conversion. This situation was replicated in a controlled environment, and the conversion was found to be due to the static magnetic field produced by the laptop's hard disk. The ICD's conversion to magnet mode can be dangerous because it ends all tachyarrhythmia detections and therapies."
(Score: 4, Funny) by richtopia on Wednesday January 13 2021, @02:43PM (1 child)
It's not a bug: it's a feature.
(Score: 5, Touché) by BsAtHome on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:18PM
Feature? No, you are holding it wrong.
(Score: 5, Funny) by kazzie on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:02PM (1 child)
Deadly for some, but it'd be perfect for Tony Stark.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @03:26PM
Most likely will change the route of spinning electrons, so ARC reactor would fail.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday January 13 2021, @04:23PM (12 children)
(Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away . . . I was a card carrying Apple fanboy. I evangelized one of my best friends to Mac, and he still is a loyal fanboy.)
The Apple true believers will insist this is not a problem. That you're holding it wrong.[1] It is the fault of the medical device. Etc.
Apple will remedy this by suggesting you bring the dead person's iPhone 12 to your nearby Genius Bar where drinks will be on the house.
[1] not referring to an Apple cloud connected adult iToy device
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:04PM (4 children)
Not all Apple users are cultists like you were. Stop hating a company and its customers because you were (and probably still are) too weak minded to establish non-pathological relationship with the brand of a simple consumer product.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:53PM
For a while I did hate Apple after the smartphone lawsuits began. But I don't hate Apple at present. I don't think I even hate Microsoft at present. But I don't exactly like them either. They are just a fact of life, and they don't negatively affect my life.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday January 13 2021, @07:07PM (1 child)
Look at the Apple cultist, out to passively-aggressively defend his/her fine piece(s) of slave-made, Anti-American technological lockdown! Word on the street is that Tim Cook himself is out to relax slave-labor laws in China. [lifesitenews.com]
Only fitting, now that "progressives" have been openly the party of oppression for about a month now. I'm sure the next step of their plan is to enslave "Evil Nazis" and put them in labor camps (private prisons) so that Apple and FAANG can have their slave labor domestic...for "social justice," or something. Watch, you'll see.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @08:47PM
Lay off the boose, EF. You used to be a better troll than that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 14 2021, @09:01PM
Found the Apple lover!
(Score: 2) by helel on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:47PM (5 children)
From the study "When an external magnet is applied to a defibrillator, high voltage shock therapy for ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation is suspended. It has been estimated that a magnetic field stronger than 10 Gauss is strong enough to activate these switches."
Apparently a fridge magnet has about 10 Gauss [adamsmagnetic.com]. So, do you think it's irresponsible to use magnets in consumer electronics? What about other devices, such as those fridge magnets? Children's toys?
I'm open to the idea that Apple has acted unethically here but I'm not there yet. "Don't bring magnets near your pacemaker" seems like something you should be aware of if you have one and applies to a heck of a lot more than just fancy new phones and fitness trackers. Is there an angle here I'm not seeing?
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:19PM (4 children)
I agree, and maybe the solution is a large warning label on the iPhone. But, 1) who reads labels, especially microscopic ones, and 2) Apple and others will complain about the ugly factor.
Frankly, I'd remove the magnets from the phones. They're only being used to align the phone with the wireless charger so that the coils are aligned. The charger could be a cradle with 4 sides to keep the phone aligned, no magnets necessary.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:24PM (3 children)
Put the magnets in the charger and ferromagnetic material in the phone.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:30PM (2 children)
I like it, but can you guarantee alignment? Any of the ferrous spots could pull to any magnet in the base, no?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mhajicek on Thursday January 14 2021, @01:35AM (1 child)
Do three spots in a triangle, you'll align every 120°. Or two spots, and it'll either go right side up or upside down. Does the orientation matter for charger coil alignment?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Thursday January 14 2021, @04:05AM
Seems like a great idea. I don't know enough about Apple's design, or design criteria. As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, magnetic fields drop off very quickly with distance. The calculations get very complex, but it's generally more than inverse square- can be inverse cube or 4th power. So a slight misalignment could clobber the charging power magnetic coupling.
Great question! Probably not? More likely centering is the issue. Again, magnetic coupling falls off very quickly with distance.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/21/early-iphone-12-teardown/ [macrumors.com]
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/05/images-iphone-12-circular-array-magnets/ [macrumors.com]
I'd still do away with the stupid magnets. Simple cradle solves both issues.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 14 2021, @12:31AM
This. Why should we blame Apple, when the design of the medical device is what causes the problem?
(Score: 4, Informative) by chewbacon on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:30PM (2 children)
I’m not entirely dismissive about this, being it came from Heart Rhythm Society. But an ICD is not the same as a pacemaker. It can pace, but it also delivers tachy therapies (anti-tachycardic pacing, shocks). I’m curious as to exactly what’s happening as magnets typically disable tachy therapies and put a device into asynchronous mode (pacing regardless of a patient’s underlying heart rate). According to HRS, this was a Medtronic device and I’m familiar with them enough to know that’s how they operate. Asynchronous pacing is hardly “shutting down” a pacemaker, but disabling therapies is another story. Manufacturers put a lot of effort in finding real lethal rhythms instead of shocking artifacts (patients hate being shocked, especially when they don’t need it), which could be what’s happening.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:41PM
Thank you. I tried to inject this info above. It's amazing how these discussions go so far off on incorrect tangents, based on incorrect assumptions.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:56PM
Based on some quick googling, a magnet also disables the cardioversion function. That's done in case of malfunction or for some medical procedures.
It could be bad if someone has a magnet in their shirt pocket and needs cardioversion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @05:39PM (5 children)
How many other devices cause this problem?
Didn't Apple start including wireless charging as far back as the iPhone 7 ?
Samsung since the S6 ?
Let the lawsuits commence, unleash the Lawyers !
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:04PM (2 children)
It isn't the wireless charging, it's the array of magnets used to keep it aligned, which is something only Apple has.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @07:09PM (1 child)
Ok, is this something only Apple only started with the iPhone 12 ?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @07:28PM
Yes. Even some phones released by them in the last year don't have it. It's literally only on this one model.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 13 2021, @06:47PM (1 child)
Unleash the lawyer horde!
We the public are so bored.
SCO took 20 years to die.
Apple is good for 60 and still deny.
I'm a rotten poet, but I tried. :)
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday January 15 2021, @02:19AM
The Vogons may be willing to offer you honorary citizenship
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Wednesday January 13 2021, @09:28PM
So if the iPhone has strong magnets, what other damage can it do?
What about magnetic storage media like backup tapes? It surely would be a bad surprise to find your backups are damaged because someone put down their phone next to the tape …
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1) by braddollar on Thursday January 14 2021, @05:07AM
I got my first ICD installed 2009, and the doc warned me not to put phones near it even back then. The various supplemental material that came with the device also warned against this. When I got it replaced in 2017, got the same warnings again.