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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:21PM   Printer-friendly
from the browser-non-grata dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

Linux users are more likely than most to be familiar with Chromium, Google's the free and open source web project that serves as the basis for their wildly popular Chrome. Since the project's inception over a decade ago, users have been able to compile the BSD licensed code into a browser that's almost the same as the closed-source Chrome. As such, most distributions offer their own package for the browser and some even include it in the base install. Unfortunately, that may be changing soon.

[...] To the average Chromium user, this doesn't sound like much of a problem. In fact, you might even assume it doesn't apply to you. The language used in the post makes it sound like Google is referring to browsers which are spun off of the Chromium codebase, and at least in part, they are. But the search giant is also using this opportunity to codify their belief that the only official Chromium builds are the ones that they provide themselves. With that simple change, anyone using a distribution-specific build of Chromium just became persona non grata.

Source: https://hackaday.com/2021/01/26/whats-the-deal-with-chromium-on-linux-google-at-odds-with-package-maintainers/


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:28PM (5 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:28PM (#1105488) Journal

    Ah, I see, the official open source is more open source than the open source in Linux distros; did I get it right?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Marand on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:05PM (4 children)

      by Marand (1081) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:05PM (#1105507) Journal

      But only if you want to use it on amd64 hardware running Linux, Windows, or macOS. So anybody using distro-provided Chromium builds on, say, BSD or a Raspberry Pi will be out of luck and need to find an alternative because apparently Google's a poor cash-strapped startup that lacks the necessary resources to compile for more than one architecture.

      I have a Raspberry Pi 400 I've been goofing off with because I like the idea of having a small plug-in-anywhere backup system and if Chromium's dropped, which is looking likely, that basically leaves Firefox or closed-source Vivaldi as the viable options there. Though even if Google started providing builds I'd probably still prefer Vivaldi, even without source, over trusting Google's Chromium builds.

      • (Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:19PM

        by loonycyborg (6905) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:19PM (#1105543)

        Vivaldi at least has fully viewable source because their development language is JS. I doubt they add anything significant to C++ in chromium source. The main beef is that Vivaldi devs are unwilling to involve community with actual development by having hidden issue trackers/version control systems, assuming they use version control even. They don't seem to be too up-to-date on this stuff.

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:24PM (2 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:24PM (#1105545) Journal

        You can still use the original Netscape, to this day the best browser ever made. You know where to find it, right?

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:09PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:09PM (#1105696)

          Actually, you can't. Everything forces https now and nothing branded as "Netscape" has new enough crypto to talk to a modern webserver. Then you run into html5 everything and Netscape only talks html 4.0.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 27 2021, @11:18PM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @11:18PM (#1105723) Journal

            You see the name. I see the machine [seamonkey-project.org]. It is Netscape on the inside, where it counts

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:30PM (9 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:30PM (#1105490) Journal

    I've not figured out why I even want to sync my stuff. Use Google's servers to store my data, so they can mine it more efficiently? Preposterous. I can do the same for myself with a USB drive for laptops and desktops. Portable devices? I can sit in front of my desktop, and sync the phone to it, without Google's help.

    I'd be just as happy if the code wasn't in the browser. That way, I'm sure it's not syncing on it's own, behind my back.

    Maybe Firefox will drop syncing capability as well, because it's a potential invasion of privacy?

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:40PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:40PM (#1105495)

      Yeah, this seems like a great move. Something seems fishy with the story, and I'm not sure I fully believe that packagers are all that outraged about sync not being available. I suspect some ulterior motives for this 'media' story that's been floating around.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:28AM

        by Reziac (2489) on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:28AM (#1105820) Homepage

        Maybe to get us all outraged, so we'll "demand" sync everywhere, and Google can "give in", thus ensuring that their snooping functions won't be dropped by future spinoff browsers.

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bart9h on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:28PM (4 children)

      by bart9h (767) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:28PM (#1105662)

      I use Firefox sync, and find it very convenient.

      But of course, convenience is orthogonal to security.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:31AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:31AM (#1105854)

        Orthogonal means at right angle (90 deg) to something, or unrelated to something because it is not on the same axis.
        Surely what you meant was security and convenience are in opposition, i.e., different ends on the same axis.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @08:44AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @08:44AM (#1105968)

          Which is not completely true.

        • (Score: 2) by bart9h on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:34PM

          by bart9h (767) on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:34PM (#1106056)

          yeah, yeah, something like that

        • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:49PM

          by Pino P (4721) on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:49PM (#1106064) Journal

          I see convenience and security as 135 degrees* opposed. Anything that increases one is likely to decrease the other unless it is particularly well aimed.

          * Guesstimate

    • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:46PM (1 child)

      by Pino P (4721) on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:46PM (#1106063) Journal

      I can do the same for myself with a USB drive for laptops and desktops. Portable devices? I can sit in front of my desktop, and sync the phone to it, without Google's help.

      If doing it yourself involves manual use of file managers with USB storage between desktop or laptop computers or MTP on phones, I can think of two drawbacks to that.

      1. A cloud sync daemon is less likely to accidentally replace a newer version of a file with an older version than dragging and dropping folders in the operating system's stock file manager. It can also detect when a file has been modified separately on two separate machines and prompt the user to merge them.
      2. Web browsers and mobile applications tend to store site-specific data in a database file rather than in discrete files in the file system. This is because file systems tend to round each file's size up to a 4096-byte cluster, which is quite wasteful for (say) a 100-byte cookie identifying your most recent session on a site, a 100-byte URL in your bookmarks, or a 100-byte saved password. The operating system's stock file manager doesn't know the semantics of this database file in order to perform a line-item merge.

      What local sync method have you settled on? Can it work across devices running X11/Linux, Windows, macOS, and Android?

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:39PM (35 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:39PM (#1105493)

    Eagerly adopted whatever Google spat out. Guess those same people were dopes.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by ikanreed on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:18PM (32 children)

      by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:18PM (#1105514) Journal

      It was easy to get into techno-optimism before the IPO, and before the adsense monopoly. Google was always doing experiments and "crazy" ideas, spun off of their original academic origin. If you remember those days, the web wasn't 5 websites, 10 apps, and a bunch of people trying to get "engagement" from those places. It was still a land of making your own site and having a subdomain for a forum for your users and it was hard to envision it becoming what it has. Hell, remember slashdotting?

      Certainly, I also remember the posts concerned about gmail and the implications of "Spy on you to advertise to you" that it entailed. We should have listened to those paranoid fools.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:46PM (30 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:46PM (#1105527)

        I remember in the 90s that electronics companies kept trying to create an equivalent to updated cable TV network: flashier technology, but still the same control over content and connectivity that media companies had always enjoyed before the internet. Then companies like Yahoo came, and everyone wanted to be your "portal" to the internet: you load up the company homepage and get your news and other info services there. The portal industry failed in its first incarnation, but succeeded in its second with Facebook and Twitter and Google. Now we are back to a few media companies controlling content and connectivity. The early internet was an aberration: a frontier that would be conquered, settled, and brought into the giant corporatist/governmental fold. It was just a matter of time, and anyone who didn't see it coming 25 years ago was a fool. Freedom for any Joe Schmoe to possibly counter the ironclad control of the ruling class was not going to be allowed to stand.

        *Twitter has flagged this post as misinformation.*

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:58PM (29 children)

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:58PM (#1105568)

          This isn't quite true. You can still create your own website, completely independent of Google or Facebook or Cloudflare or AWS. No one is stopping you. You can also create your own social network: Diaspora exists, and I presume someone actually uses it. The internet's underlying protocols have not changed, and there's nothing stopping you from doing the exact same stuff now that you did 20 years ago.

          The only problem is popularity: create your own Diaspora node, because you hate Facebook, and then get all your friends to join up and ditch FB too. Haha... good luck with that. So you'll have this great decentralized social network that you can use... by yourself. Meanwhile, all your friends complain about FB, but refuse to leave it, because all their other friends are still on there posting pictures of their grandkids or whatever. Though to be fair, from what I've read FB is much less popular with GenZ; it seems like it mostly gets used these days by grandparents keeping up with their kids, or by Boomers in a far-right-wing echo chamber.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ikanreed on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:04PM (3 children)

            by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:04PM (#1105572) Journal

            So, I feel like in all the talk of breaking up facebook, we haven't collectively come up with any plausible solutions to the perverse incentives created by the network effect.

            How do you make a platform not automatically better "because that's where your friends are"?

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:11PM (1 child)

              by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:11PM (#1105575)

              I have no idea. So far, I prefer to just bash people for being stupid, and say things like "if you hate it so much, then why are you still using it? How stupid."

              Seriously, it's not like people can't change: go back to ~2000, and the dominant social network then was MySpace. Facebook was some upstart that only some college kids used. Well, that "that's where all my friends are" factor sure didn't save MySpace from becoming completely irrelevant while Facebook became the dominant network and one of the highest valued corporations in the world. So ultimately, this is due to the people: they give FB its power by continuing to use it, and refusing to use anything else. But as I said before, this may be temporary: from what I've read, the GenZers hate FB and only have (inactive) accounts on there because their grandparents insist on using it to keep tabs on them, and they use other things to communicate.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by ikanreed on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:49PM

                by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:49PM (#1105601) Journal

                That's the hope, but the reality... well, it's grim [statista.com]

                Especially since where the fleers fled to was instagram, a facebook app.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 29 2021, @03:02PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 29 2021, @03:02PM (#1106592)

              I think the idea with Diaspora was to create a method for the networks to network. That is, basically make social networking like email.

              Sure, everyone is using hotmail as it is the best, but if google wanted to make a competing service, they could try.

              If they did, it would be able to communicate with users of hotmail because they share a common communication protocol underneath.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:18PM (9 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:18PM (#1105580)

            Parent said:
            "You can still create your own website, completely independent of Google or Facebook or Cloudflare or AWS. No one is stopping you. You can also create your own social network..."

            Have you been asleep the last couple of years?

            The ruling class shut down Gab a few years back and Parler some months ago because they were new competitor social media websites to our current social oligarchy. They also attack competitors at the DNS level and the financial level: pressure domain name registrars to drop your domain and for payment processors to drop you or not take your business irrespective of your creditworthiness.

            Gab is back because they got canceled before and understand what they are up against. They are going old school with their own hosting and everything. DNS registrars and credit card companies though really should not be allowed to discriminate based on political basis. That's common infrastructure and economic access that in a free country is accessible to everyone.

            Of course a success story like Gab's against political suppression is not to be tolerated and now the ruling class is bringing out the big guns, the government, to threaten Gab with shutdown for any legal excuse they can concoct. This is why the CEO of Gab says illegal activity will not be tolerated and he cooperates with police in shutting it down. Meanwhile, Facebook and Twitter, sites that enabled organizing of riots and out of control protests, child porn, and child trafficking face no calls to be disbanded. The ruling class owes them as partners in power.

            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:05PM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:05PM (#1105643)

              But why don't Gab and Parler federate with the fediverse?

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:15PM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:15PM (#1105698)

                Gab tried, most of it banned them. Being free speech extremists and super tolerant folk, it was the only option. Then Gab realized Mastodon was rubbish and killed federation so they could excise the mastodon code and replace it with something that can scale to keep up with their explosive growth. Twitter's banhammer is the best thing that ever happened to Gab.

                • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:17AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:17AM (#1105844)

                  Mastodon has a surprisingly high portion of trans people, so when Gab started setting up their own Mastodon instances and connecting with the existing community, it did not go well. I don't blame site admins for blocking servers with a user base spamming 10% of their own users with death threats.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:40PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:40PM (#1106240)

                    oh bs. the trannys and neo bolsheviks were wanting to block gab as soon as they heard gab was getting on the fediverse. they are authoritarian, censorious retards.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @12:47PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @12:47PM (#1106038)

                  I thought it was the other way around. Gab blocked freespeechextremist.com which is still well and alive on the fediverse.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 29 2021, @05:00AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 29 2021, @05:00AM (#1106479)

                    They didn't want to lose their members to the competition. But they like to keep pretending that Gab is the only one that is being treated that way, it fits their narrative better. Then again, its not like hypocrisy was invented yesterday.

            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:38PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:38PM (#1105669)

              "The ruling class shut down Gab a few years back and Parler some months ago because they were new competitor social media websites to our current social oligarchy. They also attack competitors at the DNS level and the financial level: pressure domain name registrars to drop your domain and for payment processors to drop you or not take your business irrespective of your creditworthiness."

              and? quit using and supporting centralized, controlled shit. Is everything perfect and finished? no, but that doesn't mean people can't use what's available. host you own sites, or use p2p software or build new stuff. stuff like handshake for dns and monero (and other privacy coins) for currency. if you use the international criminal bankster cartels' "money" and host your shit on amazon, you're a dumb ass slave.

              • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:28PM (1 child)

                by Pino P (4721) on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:28PM (#1106075) Journal

                that doesn't mean people can't use what's available. host you own sites

                Doing this from a PC in your home is likely to either technically not work (because your home ISP applies carrier-grade NAT or otherwise blocks incoming TCP connections) or cause your home ISP to stop carrying your traffic in either direction (because the home plan's acceptable use policy bans publicly accessible servers). This can cause harm to people who live in an area where only one or two wired home ISPs offer service.

                Doing this using your own domain name and a virtual private server (which doesn't have to be Amazon's) is called the IndieWeb route [indieweb.org]. Say I make articles and videos and host them on my own site. What steps should I go about taking to get my first dozen viewers now that I no longer have the recommendation engines of the big silos [indieweb.org] behind me? And now that RSS/Atom/h-feed readers are no longer widely used nor included with web browsers, how would I go about notifying viewers that a new article is available to read?

                or use p2p software or build new stuff.

                What steps should I go about taking to get prospective viewers to install software capable of viewing said "new stuff"?

                and monero (and other privacy coins) for currency. if you use the international criminal bankster cartels' "money" and host your shit on amazon, you're [worthy of derision]

                How does one go about buying Monero, or buying home Internet access with Monero, other than by exchanging "the international criminal bankster cartels' 'money'"?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:46PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:46PM (#1106245)

                  i don't have time for all these reasonable questions! :)

                  1). yes, you would generally require a commercial internet connection or self host in a mom and pop-ish datacenter.
                  2). manual web/traditional marketing and self-built and run mailing lists.
                  3) marketing
                  4) sure, it;'s problematic but you can mine monero and you may be able to find debit/cc cards that can be "loaded" with crypto currency. The gatekeepers are a problem but if people would just start using and accepting it we could get tpo a critical mass and force the issue with our governments or route around governments completely with smart contracts, web 3.0, etc. Of course this is all much more difficult than just being a slave.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:21PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:21PM (#1105581)

            The only problem is popularity: create your own Diaspora node, because you hate Facebook, and then get all your friends to join up and ditch FB too. Haha... good luck with that.

            The other problem is popularity: if you actually manage to create something that gets popular, it can be difficult to keep up with the popularity. You can make a service that scales up without Cloudflare or AWS or whatever... but nobody wants to put in the time or effort to do so.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:08PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:08PM (#1105645)

              Without DDOS protection, you get noticed by the wrong people, and your site is screwed.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:42PM (9 children)

            by slinches (5049) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:42PM (#1105628)

            You can still create your own website, completely independent of Google or Facebook or Cloudflare or AWS. No one is stopping you.

            And as I have mentioned to you before. There absolutely is someone stopping you from doing that. Namely being delisted by domain registrars, removed from DNS services and blocked by ISPs. So, no. You cannot create your own website without the support of private companies who have the right to exclude you simply because they don't like what you have to say. There is no public right of way and no enforced common carriers that would be obligated to provide such access to the internet. If we want to protect free speech as a fundamental principle, we will need to change that.

            • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:15PM (2 children)

              by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:15PM (#1105649)

              Bullshit.

              Proof: stormfront.org still exists. Go look for yourself.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:35PM

                by slinches (5049) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:35PM (#1105666)

                That doesn't change the fact that any site could be removed (including that one) at any time on the whims of private entities with no accountability. That some companies are still willing to host all sites regardless of political views, especially objectionable ones, is encouraging in terms of free speech. Although, being reliant on the good will of for profit companies isn't a highly stable arrangement as it could be made unprofitable rather quickly.

                My point still stands.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:20PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:20PM (#1105701)

                Stormfront is a Fed honeypot. Of course it hasn't been bothered much. Did have to move DNS to Epik. Now try Dailystormer, Used to be .com until Google seized their DNS record and, against every norm, refused to release it to them to move it to another registrar. After a doze or so such forced name changes they seem to have finally found one that is sticking. Lord only knows how they keep a website up, without Weev it is certain they wouldn't.

                The dark day of censorship has come, it crept up a couple of years ago and the so called civil libertarians who were supposed to be manning the ramparts against it were seen cheering with wild abandon.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:42PM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:42PM (#1105671)

              this is only true if you don't use free alternatives, like tor, loki.network, freenet, etc

              • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:27AM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:27AM (#1105778)

                The goal is freedom of speech, as in, you are allowed to say things in the public square.
                Saying it in some hidden corner where 0.0001% of humanity can hear you is admission of defeat.

                • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:41AM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:41AM (#1105836)

                  ..unless you're alt-rig nazi, in which case, being afraid to speak counts as a win for humanity.

                  Nazis aren't interested in free speech. They're interested in death for everyone who isn't them; their support for free speech has murder as its motivation and fades to zero or less whenever some darkie (or jew or trade unionist or slut or...) tries to insist that they are, in fact, a human being deserving of human rights.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:38AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:38AM (#1105858)

                    ...

                  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:53PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @07:53PM (#1106250)

                    You're just regurgitating Jew propaganda that has been burned into your head since birth. Even the word Nazi is just a Jew slur against any Whites who stand up for themselves. The fact is, the Jews are terrified of the internet letting out the truth about WW2 and this is why there is a huge push for censorship, along with other established power being threatened by the truth.

                  • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday January 29 2021, @05:52AM

                    by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 29 2021, @05:52AM (#1106488)

                    Ah, those "alt rig" people, always drilling for oil in unconventional locations...

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:01PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:01PM (#1105641)

            Diaspora still exists and has users, but my understanding is that the current most successful federated social network is Mastodon. Supposedly they have 4 million users now. I used it for a while and met all kinds of interesting people worldwide, but none of my friends and family I knew before using Mastodon adopted it. I didn't mind that, I just quit because I found it nearly as addictive as Facebook even without researchers pouring limitless cash into fostering user addictions to the site.

            Side note - the Boomers in my Facebook network have a right-wing echo chamber and a left-wing echo chamber, and the two sides scream at each other a lot. It's the reason I only login to the site once a month. I should have quit because their business model is corrupt and because fuck privacy invasions and double fuck advertisers. But mostly I quit because the stream of political lies put my blood pressure into 'imminent stroke' territory. Let's see, most recently... California legalized pedophilia (no), Trump paid off eight families whose children he raped (no), the media covered up that Antifa staged the Capitol riots (no), Putin controls Trump (no)... I would continue but I feel my pulse pounding again.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:59PM (#1105692)

              All that is GREAT for site engagement!

          • (Score: 2) by Lester on Sunday January 31 2021, @11:41AM

            by Lester (6231) on Sunday January 31 2021, @11:41AM (#1107188) Journal

            This isn't quite true. You can still create your own website, completely independent of Google or Facebook or Cloudflare or AWS. No one is stopping you.

            Yes, you can. But if you don't care being irrelevant. As long as you don't care to be part of an underground group that doesn't affect the rest of the world you can create your even your own internet with your top level domain.

            But if you want a service with high traffic, 24/7 service 99% uptime, and not devoting hours of your time to maintenance (keeping system up to date with last attacks, exploits, updating software etc) or paying expensive technician to do so, you will have to go to one of those services.

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:39PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:39PM (#1105687) Journal

        Along with their experiments and "crazy ideas" was also their "Do no harm" ideology: they were something different and fun and "They use linux! Cool!"

        Then they went tits up corporate and changed....not cool.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:21PM (1 child)

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:21PM (#1105544)

      What happened to Google is the same thing that happens to a lot of companies, namely that they lost track of what made them good in the first place. Somebody has a good technical innovation or improvement, starts a company to sell it, builds it up into a business, and sooner or later the MBA types take over, the founder(s) stop doing the day-to-day management, and before long it's just another fossilized MBA company making all the same short-sighted decisions that the company existed to rebel against.

      To use a completely different company as an example: Ben and Jerry's started out as a couple of hippie guys who liked making ice cream opening up a shop in Vermont. They did well enough that they were able to take on a few employees, and eventually expanded into a few shops. They were routinely innovating flavors, because they did all this because they liked making ice cream. They started their take-home pints business as an add-on to that, which proved immensely popular, then they started selling it in local stores, and eventually needed a factory to serve that need. They had some interesting policies, like for a long time Ben and Jerry had a policy of a remarkable level of pay equity, and it was generally considered a very good place to work. Then Ben got older and decided he wanted to cash out. Jerry ran the company on his own for a while, then he decided he was done too, so they got together and in the mid-1990's broke their pay equity rules to hire a CEO to run the place. And as soon as that happened, in a few years the suits took over, and despite their hippie aesthetics it's now really just another brand of Unilever, the employees aren't treated as well, the ice cream isn't as good and definitely not as innovative as they once were, and the "pints" aren't full pints anymore.

      And if you want to stick to tech stuff, look at Apple, who lost a lot of its technical mojo when Woz decided to call it quits, because he was the guy in the boardroom who cared the most about engineering greatness and had the chops to know what that looked like. Or Red Hat, who started with the purpose of making Linux something ordinary people could use but is now firmly transitioned towards suits trying to impress other suits (especially with their recent dumping of CentOS).

      Google, like many others, started out with a genuinely great idea of how to build a search engine that was much much much better than its competitors, as anyone who had to deal with early web search engines like Altavista can tell you, but eventually the suits took over and the innovation petered out for anything other than soaking its users more.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:38PM (#1105590)

        Woz's only influence with Apple was the Apple 8-bit computer line.
        Apple Computer's amazing rise came with the Macintosh computer in the 80s and the new Macintosh line in the 90s based on Steve Jobs' NeXT computer company when Steve was invited back to Apple to save it after the CEO had given him the boot years ago and proceeded to drive the company into the ground. The iPad, iPhone, iPod, all had zip to do with Woz who didn't do anything at Apple after the Apple II series. (Unsure about the flop Apple III.) Don't get me wrong, Woz was the engineer that Jobs needed so that together they could start Apple in the 70s, but his contributions were only useful during the 8-bit era. He hasn't done anything since in computers. Jobs >> Woz in the tech world.

        As for Google, it wasn't the CEO who turned it evil. The original founders did that and returned to run the company after leaving day to day management to a business type for a while. It's more evil than ever under their management. Their moral character (one of them at least) is pretty bad in personal matters at Google as well, with screwing all the female underlings in the office as possible in those early days. I don't think there was ever any aversion to getting huge and rich and doing whatever was necessary to achieve it. Now, managing perceptions so that they seemed unmotivated by money and power? They managed that successfully for a long time until their results and methods could no longer be reconciled with the PR.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:43PM (19 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:43PM (#1105496) Homepage Journal

    Moz is shitting the bed in nearly every possible way, Google is covering the remaining ways with Evil, and none of the non-Chrome/Firefox-based browsers see enough development to make them even halfassed viable. Fuck em, I'm going back to lynx.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:44PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:44PM (#1105526)

      Can't even use Palemoon on the BSDs because the browser devs got into a similar spat with some package managers, took their ball, and went home.

      Open source is so pervasive now that you can't do anything with the source. And somehow the final product isn't open.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:31PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:31PM (#1105551)

        AFAIK they couldn't call it palemoon if it wasn't completely the upstream dick's code.

        I forked my own version and they threatened me about it.

        But since it is under a free license, they could have called it icemoon or something. What was the result of that spat?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:47PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:47PM (#1105599)

          Package maintainers don't want to maintain it after the kerfuffule, and something about the build system is nonobvious enough that it's not straightforward to build from source.

          's part of why when my work laptop died I just gave up and installed the corporate Windows image. So few tolerable browsers out there, and getting fewer by the month.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:44PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:44PM (#1105673)

            windows! lmao.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @12:25AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @12:25AM (#1105757)

            Package maintainers don't want to maintain it after the kerfuffule, and something about the build system is nonobvious enough that it's not straightforward to build from source.

            And there is NOT ONE interested user in the whole BSD world, capable of taking a buildscript from BEFORE "the kerfuffule" and changing the version number inside?

            If so, I entirely understand Moonchild's not caring about such an useless segment of his userbase.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:53PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:53PM (#1105564)

        Open source is so pervasive now that you can't do anything with the source. And somehow the final product isn't open.

        Well, people should have listened to Richard Stallman. He warned us of this exact thing, and it's why he invented the GNU license. But all the open-source lovers complained, saying "it's not really free if some company can't take my code, add some proprietary stuff to it, and then use that to monopolize!"

    • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:26PM (12 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @08:26PM (#1105660)

      "Fuck em, I'm going back to lynx".

      Not sure if that is a /j, or your actually shilling lynx. If so stop it. Not because it doesn't work well, it does. It is just badly exploitable. Really Lynx needs to be rewritten in RUST, and allow that to provide a basis for developing a native RUST rendering engine. There is a fledgling RUST browser project out there on github. I haven't tried it yet, but it is on my TODO list.

      Most modern browsers are pimpware. Chrome your exploited by google. safari, Apple. firefox.. everybody else. You can't run everything over one tcp port and expect to have a small enough footprint that exploit vectors are reasonably detectable in a source code audit. People may like it that way, but people also like driving convertables at high speed with no seat belts. Right up until they roll one.

      • (Score: 1) by Eratosthenes on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:36PM (1 child)

        by Eratosthenes (13959) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @09:36PM (#1105686) Journal

        Shilling lynx? Do you know what lynx is? This is a very strange comments.

        • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:05PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @10:05PM (#1105694)

          Who WOULDN'T shill for lynx? With all that corporate backing, there's a fortune to be made... somewhere...
          Biggest thing holding back lynx: mainstream porn sites are a letdown.
          I've memorized all the ASCII porn out there, and it doesn't work for me like it used to.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:08AM (8 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:08AM (#1105806) Homepage Journal

        A Rust engine is going to be shit. Rust executables and libraries take up a lot more ram than comparable C/C++ libraries/executables and browsers are already enormous ram hogs. There are plenty of places for Rust code to shine but the core of a web browser is not one of them.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:25AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:25AM (#1105847)

          Firefox's memory usage has gone down, not up, since they started rewriting components in Rust.

          But more importantly, it does nobody anywhere any good for The Rust Evangelism Task Force to drop into every discussion and interject, "They should rewrite that in Rust!" It's gone past interesting, past funny, past annoying, deep into trolling territory. If all of the people saying, "They should rewrite it in Rust!" Actually spent 15 minutes a week writing Rust code, all software everywhere would be in Rust by now.

          I say this as a Rust fan: Rust fans, shut your fucking mouth and write the damn Rust code.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:33PM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:33PM (#1106055) Homepage Journal

            Components are not the core though. They can be loaded and unloaded on demand.

            I'm also saying this as a Rust fan. It's a very good language for people who can't (or can't be arsed to) write good C/C++ code. But you should not be hiring people who don't write good C/C++ code to build something that's notoriously been a terrible memory hog.

            MrPlow is an IRC bot written in Rust. I quite enjoy coding it and it's extremely well suited to that type of task. He takes up a damn sight more ram on the server than his C version did though, even considering the memory leaks the C version of him had. But he's still a whole lot smaller than the Perl version of him was, so I consider it a well placed sweet spot for this application.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday January 29 2021, @05:57AM

              by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 29 2021, @05:57AM (#1106489)

              MrPlow is an IRC bot written in Rust. I quite enjoy coding it

              Really? I'd have guessed "MrPlow" would have been written by a Mighty Blizzard.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:26AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @03:26AM (#1105849)

          "There are plenty of places for Rust code to shine..."

          And what would those be? I haven't found any.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:37PM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 28 2021, @01:37PM (#1106058) Homepage Journal

            Anywhere your needs are faster development than C and a smaller footprint than interpreted languages.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:04PM

              by Pino P (4721) on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:04PM (#1106070) Journal

              And when it runs on an instruction set that has a bunch of money behind it.

              Rust targets only those instruction sets that LLVM targets. In particular LLVM does not target m68k (aka Motorola Freescale NXP MC68000), the instruction set of a few popular retro computing platforms such as Amiga and Sega Genesis. This is because there isn't enough money behind those platforms to support hiring someone to maintain a back end for ten years. From a May 2019 post to the mailing list [llvm.org]:

              AFAICT the problem has always been code ownership - we would need people with some knowledge of both m68k and llvm to be willing to actively support the target: steering it through the setup/experimental target stages, providing (and maintaining) test/buildbot coverage, managing reported bugs, and handling any changes to the llvm APIs that require changes in the backend.

              Even if there's a demand for it (and AFAICT from the amiga community alone there definitely is), without real code owners I don't think this will go anywhere.

              Thus developers of software for m68k platforms [spritesmind.net] are stuck with GCC and those languages it supports.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @06:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @06:54PM (#1106212)

            Well, librsvg was rewritten in rust for a minor version bump, pulling in an exciting new build dependency as something of a happy little surprise.
            And while this may not have been appreciated by those running anything GTK-related on non-LLVM (and thus non-Rust) platforms, as they get stuck with no security patches and no upgrade path, for me it merely added an extra 8+ hours of compile time for Rust, and I assume also a longer build for librsvg itself. As a masochist (and I wouldn't be running Gentoo on a dinky netbook CPU if I weren't), that was obviously the good kind of surprise.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:33PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:33PM (#1106076)

          Actually there is a rust TK that renders directly to the video card, bypassing system memory entirely. This is probably a superior architecture if you think about it.

          Not that it matters, since... Which would you rather? Perpetually exploitable browser code, or higher RAM utilization?

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday January 30 2021, @12:27AM

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 30 2021, @12:27AM (#1106751) Homepage Journal

        There is a fledgling RUST browser project out there on github.

        Do you mean Servo [servo.org]? It seems to be a Firefox associate, if not actually a Firefox derivative.

        Or is there another such project?

  • (Score: 5, Touché) by Marand on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:56PM (7 children)

    by Marand (1081) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @03:56PM (#1105502) Journal

    Google got what it wanted from letting distros package a functioning Chromium: devs and users accustomed to living in and working on Google's ecosystem for free, making it easier to slowly starve the competition of their users and resources. Now that all the competition is essentially gone (with everyone either using Google's browser as a base or completely reliant on its monetary handouts to survive) they no longer need that support or goodwill, so fuck you, they own the internet now and they're altering the deal. It's the IE5/6 dark age all over again, except Google's arguably more hostile to users and developers than Microsoft has ever been.

    Whenever something like this happens I'm reminded of this article [medium.com] about Google's habit of deprecating and killing things with no respect for anyone else. Especially this bit:

    Dear RECIPIENT,

    Fuck yooooouuuuuuuu. Fuck you, fuck you, Fuck You. Drop whatever you are doing because it’s not important. What is important is OUR time. It’s costing us time and money to support our shit, and we’re tired of it, so we’re not going to support it anymore. So drop your fucking plans and go start digging through our shitty documentation, begging for scraps on forums, and oh by the way, our new shit is COMPLETELY different from the old shit, because well, we fucked that design up pretty bad, heh, but hey, that’s YOUR problem, not our problem.
    We remain committed as always to ensuring everything you write will be unusable within 1 year.
    Please go fuck yourself,

    Google Cloud Platform

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:33PM

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:33PM (#1105522)

      I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:50PM (5 children)

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:50PM (#1105561)

      so fuck you, they own the internet now and they're altering the deal. It's the IE5/6 dark age all over again, except Google's arguably more hostile to users and developers than Microsoft has ever been.

      I completely disagree.

      There's one really, really huge difference between a Chrome monopoly, and the IE6 dark ages: back in those horrible times, countless websites simply did not work for me, because I was using Linux. There was no way to get IE6 working on Linux: it forced you to use Windows OS on your computer, just to use some website.

      At least with a Chrome monopoly, I can use the OS of my choice. Maybe not on a Rasberry Pi, but for typical use-cases (i.e., a typical Intel/AMD desktop/laptop), I can use Linux (or Windows, or Mac). Google has no interest in pushing a Microsoft OS monopoly.

      Microsoft was NEVER friendly to developers. It was only friendly to developers if they used Microsoft OSes. Use anything else, and you just got a big FU. Again, Google may have crappy dev resources compared to what MS offered Windows devs, but at least they don't force you to use Windows. I'll happily take a Google monopoly over a Microsoft monopoly for this 1 reason alone.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:37PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:37PM (#1105589)

        At least with a Chrome monopoly, I can use the OS of my choice.

        For now. It's not hard to imagine a world where the only useful build of Chrome, that supports all the shiny APIs that everyone cares about, comes from the Play Store. So you better have an Android device and a Google account in good standing else you'll be a second-class outcast, just like we were on Linux with Netscape 4 when so many things were dependent on IE.

        There are at least several steps between this world and that world. But with Chrome's market share and Google's forays into being evil, it's no longer completely unimaginable.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @09:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @09:02AM (#1105979)

          There already exist HTTPS-only APIs in both Chrome and Firefox. Can't see why they can't depend on something else arbitrary chosen.

      • (Score: 2) by Marand on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:24AM (1 child)

        by Marand (1081) on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:24AM (#1105818) Journal

        At least with a Chrome monopoly, I can use the OS of my choice.

        Like the AC already said, "for now". The IE dark age didn't happen all at once either; when MS was taking over browser market share it made IE4 (and 5 I think?) available for Unix, then dropped it when it was no longer useful. Just like Google's doing now. Names and some details differ, but history still seems to be repeating here.

        Microsoft was NEVER friendly to developers. It was only friendly to developers if they used Microsoft OSes. Use anything else, and you just got a big FU.

        That's not really so different from Google, except that to Google the browser is the OS. They really only care about advertising, ChromeOS, and Android. Everything else is irrelevant and they only support other OSes because they still need them for now. But this shows that they're starting to not see the need any more; they're now turning the screws and saying "use Chrome or GTFO", at least to the smaller platforms.

        It's also concerning that they've begun dictating the terms of how the internet works for everyone, regardless of browser. That's far worse than what MS did to the internet with IE. They say use AMP and people use AMP, because otherwise they might not show up high enough in search rankings. They say use HTTP3 or SPDY or whatever the flavour of the month is now and people use it because it's SEO suicide to not do what Google wants. They decided to neuter ad-blocking extensions with changes to their extension manifest and all the Chromium-based browsers fall into step because they have no choice, they're built on Google's code and Google doesn't have to listen to anyone. And so on.

        Microsoft at its worst controlled people's entry point to the web (the browser), but Google has undue influence on everything, including that.

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday January 28 2021, @04:07AM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday January 28 2021, @04:07AM (#1105869)

          Like the AC already said, "for now".

          It's extremely unlikely, considering SO many companies (including Google I'm sure) internally use Linux for development. Google isn't an OS vendor (for the desktop), and this doesn't look likely to change any time soon. It also doesn't make sense given how they make money: they profit from people using their software so they can spy on them. How is limiting OS choice going to help them here?

          MS did it because it profited from a Windows monopoly, so they wanted everyone on Windows and would do things to push people to the Windows platform, so they could sell more Windows licenses. Google doesn't have that. The entire business model is different. The only reason Google would stop support for some platforms is because the userbase is too small and they're too lazy to maintain those ports. amd64 Linux is not *that* small a userbase.

          That's not really so different from Google, except that to Google the browser is the OS. They really only care about advertising, ChromeOS, and Android. Everything else is irrelevant and they only support other OSes because they still need them for now.

          No, they need them forever, unless they plan to start pushing ChromeOS as a general-purpose OS (which it is not). And this would get them into major antitrust trouble, much worse than MS. Not going to happen.

          They say use HTTP3 or SPDY or whatever the flavour of the month is now

          I can't speak to HTTP3 (never heard of it), but SPDY was made because the standard internet protocols actually kinda suck for what we're using them for. There's a reason people are using UDP with reliability features bolted on top instead of just using TCP: TCP is ridiculously inefficient. Someone needs to come up with better protocols.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @11:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 28 2021, @11:37AM (#1106010)

        The browser has become the most important piece of software on your computer. So Google doesn't have to care what operating system is running Chromium/Chrome, as long as you're using their browser they're getting what they want from you.

        Further, the browser's importance keeps growing. So while you're running Chromium on Linux on the Raspberry Pi or Chrome on *BSD, Google's power increases.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:01PM (#1105503)

    Google is good people. They cried when trump won and cheered when biden won.

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:04PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:04PM (#1105505)

    With that simple change, anyone using a distribution-specific build of Chromium just became persona non grata.

    What does that mean? They'll be banned from Youtube?

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by RamiK on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:00PM

      by RamiK (1813) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:00PM (#1105534)

      ToS violations can lead to account termination. i.e. if you try logging in to your Google account using unauthorized-for-that-use API keys, google could close your account permanently and without prior notice and without a possibility to recover your data.

      It happened to people who tried using alternative google play store clients which is why Aurora store put together a whole server infrastructure that automatically generates and rotates accounts and API keys. Unfortunately that's not viable for cloud backups.

      --
      compiling...
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by meustrus on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:09PM (3 children)

    by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:09PM (#1105510)

    Apparently, [subject].

    All this hullaballoo over a feature that freedom-oriented hackers should have already been suspicious of. Why should anyone expect to use Google's cloud services for free? Why would you want to? Do you think multi-billion corporations just like giving away free stuff for no reason?

    Access to Google's sync APIs should only have ever been a stopgap while other syncing solutions were developed. But as others have pointed out, there's no market for other syncing solutions when Google's is free.

    Oh well. It's not the end of the world. I really hope chromium doesn't get pulled from repos because of this. It would send a really bad signal that the open source world isn't interested in Chromium being open anymore.

    --
    If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:42PM

      by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:42PM (#1105593)

      All this hullabaloo over a feature that freedom-oriented hackers should have already been suspicious of. Why should anyone expect to use Google's cloud services for free? Why would you want to? Do you think multi-billion corporations just like giving away free stuff for no reason?

      Even if Google was the "do no evil" corporation they once claimed themselves to be, giving stuff away for "free" will always hinge on whether or not they still want to support the technology involved. If one was to base a large proportion of what they do on using such a service, they will never get a guarantee that said service wouldn't suddenly be dropped or changed one day to attract a growing market with different needs. If one's data is essential and important, one had better come up with a better way rather than bank on the whims of someone else. You won't find such free for long.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:30PM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:30PM (#1105619) Journal

      Access to Google's sync APIs should only have ever been a stopgap while other syncing solutions were developed.

      I have a vague memory of an addon for Firefox, that did syncing, years ago. The memory is vague, I believe it was even before Chrome existed. It was something I glanced at, played with for a day or six, then trashed it from my system. The ability to run a synching system certainly doesn't depend on Google's API. The problem is, the two rival giants in the browser market have taken the idea and run with it, and drowned out the early developer(s).

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:49PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:49PM (#1105635)

        I have a vague memory of an addon for Firefox, that did syncing, years ago. The memory is vague, I believe it was even before Chrome existed. It was something I glanced at, played with for a day or six, then trashed it from my system.

        Then good news, they implemented it into the browser as a core feature! #hahaonlyserious

        Because it's not like Firefox is supposed to be a stripped-down version of the Mozilla Suite or anything.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:18PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:18PM (#1105513)

    Google is blocking third party builds from things like Google's sync servers by revoking these api keys. Does this really matter?

    Debian has recently been teaming up with the ungoogled chromium project which makes it seem their plan is to extricate all the hooks back to Google in the Debian chromium package anyway.

    Personally, I'd rather run a de-googled chromium than the advertising company spyware version.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @04:57PM (#1105532)

      -nomsg

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:06PM (6 children)

      by RamiK (1813) on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:06PM (#1105573)

      Personally, I'd rather run a de-googled chromium than the advertising company spyware version.

      The relevant ungoogled-chromium discussion brings up all the alternative solutions like floccus and xbrowsersync: https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium/issues/667 [github.com]

      They each have their own cons and pros, especially on Android. Personally I would have liked to see xBrowserSync support some p2p solution... But for now I'm sticking to the tried and true text file and editor over syncthing share :D

      --
      compiling...
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by boltronics on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:23AM (5 children)

        by boltronics (580) on Thursday January 28 2021, @02:23AM (#1105817) Homepage Journal

        I use xBrowserSync, just for bookmarks (I wouldn't trust any sync service with passwords). It works fine. Occasionally when it refreshes it momentarily clears all bookmarks and re-adds them - you can see them all vanish and re-appear on occasion, maybe once ever few days, or when you update bookmarks on a different browser that you're syncing with. It's great having the same bookmarks in Firefox and Chromium, so I'm quite happy with it.

        I just wish I could completely turn off the Firefox Sync and Google Sync built-in browser options, because it's annoying getting messages asking me to switch them on when I have no intention of doing so (and xBrowserSync isn't compatible with the built-in sync options and they must be disabled).

        --
        It's GNU/Linux dammit!
        • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday January 28 2021, @04:36PM (4 children)

          by RamiK (1813) on Thursday January 28 2021, @04:36PM (#1106143)

          xBrowserSync isn't compatible with the built-in sync options and they must be disabled

          If chromium could allow redirecting to a self-hosted server, xBrowserSync could implement the protocol and let you run it localhost on your phone. Well, the option exists for firefox and no one bothered as of yet so maybe not... Still, it will sort out both the requests and the syncing issues where the bookmarks disappear for a few seconds.

          I wouldn't trust any sync service with passwords

          You can self-host with syncthing to e2e p2p share your ~/.password-store [passwordstore.org] and Android-Password-Store [f-droid.org] for the rest of the song & dance.

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          compiling...
          • (Score: 2) by boltronics on Friday January 29 2021, @04:36AM (2 children)

            by boltronics (580) on Friday January 29 2021, @04:36AM (#1106474) Homepage Journal

            > Well, the option exists for firefox and no one bothered as of yet so maybe not...

            For years I was using the ownCloud add-on called mozilla-sync [github.com] and then they went and completely replaced the protocol with a new mechanism which was *much* more complex, and removed support for the old when Mozilla started to push Firefox Accounts hard.

            It's no surprise nobody bothered. Who knows when Mozilla will go and change it all again? xBrowserSync is independent of whatever browser vendors comes up with next, but works with all browsers. It's a much better solution, although browser vendors must hate it and probably will try to break it somehow if it becomes more popular.

            For passwords, I already use pass. I just copy/paste into the browser using its built-in clipboard integration (which automatically reverts after a few seconds) - no browser plugins required. I don't sync anything with my phone, quite deliberately so - I don't trust phones to be secure, what with all the proprietary components they run. I suppose I could have a separate password store for syncing unimportant things with my phone... but I'm not such a heavy phone user that not having synced passwords bothers me. Just having bookmarks there is sufficient for my use case.

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            It's GNU/Linux dammit!
            • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Friday January 29 2021, @08:15PM (1 child)

              by RamiK (1813) on Friday January 29 2021, @08:15PM (#1106686)

              It's no surprise nobody bothered. Who knows when Mozilla will go and change it all again?

              They iterated 2 breaking protocol changes over the course of 2 decades and explained how those changes were necessary due to security concerns.

              xBrowserSync...[i]s a much better solution

              Implementing a shim around the browsers' own protocols will eliminate those sync issues. Whether it's worth the extra maintenance burden is for the developer to decide and the users to accept/reject. Personally I'm not using xBrowserSync over those issues. But your mileage may vary...

              For passwords, I already use pass. I just copy/paste into the browser using its built-in clipboard integration (which automatically reverts after a few seconds) - no browser plugins required.

              On the desktop I prefer passff [github.com]. Again, mileage may vary...

              I don't sync anything with my phone, quite deliberately so - I don't trust phones to be secure, what with all the proprietary components they run...I don't want my password manager to be stored/synced on the same device I use for 2FA. I think that's asking for trouble, and I also don't particularly want to use dedicated 2FA hardware.

              Fair enough. I used it on and off with a 2nd store dedicated for "low-security" passwords made out of linking only the passwords I need to the phone. That way when I need to change/add a password it syncs. But if/when you can avoid it...

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              • (Score: 2) by boltronics on Monday February 01 2021, @03:40AM

                by boltronics (580) on Monday February 01 2021, @03:40AM (#1107389) Homepage Journal

                > They iterated 2 breaking protocol changes over the course of 2 decades and explained how those changes were necessary due to security concerns.

                I don't believe "security" is the concern - it's just an excuse. The new sync has known security issues and last I checked they don't care. They don't want to change the way it works because it would be problematic due to their integration with Pocket (a proprietary service - it still blows my mind that Firefox added this integration). There's an open bug report about it somewhere that I was reading last year, and it wasn't a new issue either. That was one of the big disincentives I saw regarding Firefox Sync specifically.

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                It's GNU/Linux dammit!
          • (Score: 2) by boltronics on Friday January 29 2021, @04:40AM

            by boltronics (580) on Friday January 29 2021, @04:40AM (#1106475) Homepage Journal

            Also, I don't want my password manager to be stored/syncedon the same device I use for 2FA. I think that's asking for trouble, and I also don't particularly want to use dedicated 2FA hardware.

            --
            It's GNU/Linux dammit!
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:07PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:07PM (#1105537)

    Chromium is for people who want the Chrome browser but without the proprietary Google things. I use Chromium but never touch any Google features.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @05:52PM (#1105563)

      Yeah, but even Chromium reaches out to the mothership and communicates who-knows-what.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 27 2021, @06:46PM (#1105598)

      That is what people want to believe, but chromium have several (uniq) google keys and it is always talking to google. Most of those features can't be disabled and even trying to compile chrome without then simply fail.
      You have to patch several parts to be able to compile it, but then you lose several features. IIRC, even videos will stop working

      What is happening here is that those keys in debian chromium are always the same for many users, decreasing the google ID potential (they aren't the only ways google have to track you, even after a profile cleanup, but do increase the user id collisions). By enforcing their own build, they can push new ids on each download and keep their tracking at 100%

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:39PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 27 2021, @07:39PM (#1105625) Journal

      Chromium is half-ungoogled, at best. IMO, the best ungoogled Chrome-like is SRWare Iron. https://www.srware.net/iron/ [srware.net]

      The home page has changed a lot since I last visited, it's less informative now. Iron forum here - https://www.srware.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=21 [srware.net]

      For those who may demand deprecated features, old version archive here - http://download1.srware.net/old/ [srware.net]

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