Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Saturday February 20 2021, @02:01AM   Printer-friendly
from the data-hoover dept.

Valve gets dragged into Apple and Epic's legal fight over Fortnite:

Apple's bitter legal dispute with Epic Games over the distribution of Fortnite on iOS has now managed to rope in Valve. Apple has subpoenaed the Steam maker for a wide range of PC game sales data it says is crucial to its case. But Valve is fighting back against that subpoena, saying its information is proprietary, not relevant to Apple's case, and would be costly and difficult to generate.

As discussed in a joint letter from Apple and Valve filed with the Northern District of California court this week, Apple's November subpoena seeks two large categories of information that Valve is refusing to provide:

[...] Valve argues that Steam is an unrelated sideshow in the battle between Apple and Epic. "Valve does not make or sell phones, tablets, or video games for mobile devices, or otherwise compete in the mobile market," the company writes. "Fortnite is not available on Steam, and Epic has publicly and unequivocally stated it will not offer Fortnite on Steam unless Valve changes its business model."

[...] "Valve does not disclose its sales and revenue information and projections, and Valve derives a significant value and edge from the confidentiality of such information, including by keeping it out of the hands of companies like Epic who also sell PC games."


Original Submission

Related Stories

Apple Turns Post-Lawsuit Tables on Epic, Will Block Fortnite on iOS 10 comments

Apple turns post-lawsuit tables on Epic, will block Fortnite on iOS:

Weeks after Epic's apparent "win" against Apple in the Epic Games v. Apple case, Apple issued a letter denying Epic's request to have its developer license agreement reinstated until all legal options are exhausted. This effectively bans Fortnite and any other software from the game maker from returning to Apple's App Store for years.

Epic was handed an initial victory when the US District Court for Northern California issued an injunction on September 10 ordering Apple to open up in-game payment options for all developers. At the time, the injunction was something of a moral victory for Epic—allowing the developer to keep its in-game payment systems in its free-to-play Fortnite intact while avoiding paying Apple a 30 percent fee that had previously covered all in-app transactions.

But now Epic has faced a significant reversal of fortune.

The better thing would be to ban all micro-transactions. Instead this is more like a couple thieves divvying up the loot from the candy they stole from children. Sure, they didn't "steal anything", but kids aren't allowed to play the slot machines in Casinos, either.

Previously:
Apple Can No Longer Force Developers to Use In-App Purchasing, Judge Rules
Valve Gets Dragged into Apple and Epic’s Legal Fight Over Fortnite
Judge Dismisses Apple’s “Theft” Claims in Epic Games Lawsuit
Microsoft Thumbs its Nose at Apple With New “App Fairness” Policy
Your iPhone Copy of Fortnite is About to Become Out of Date [Updated]
Judge Issues Restraining Order Protecting Unreal Engine Development on iOS
Microsoft Issues Statement in Support of Epic Games to Remain on Apple Ecosystem
Epic-Apple Feud Could Also Affect Third-Party Unreal Engine Games
Fortnite Maker Sues Apple after Removal of Game From App Store


Original Submission

“You a—Holes”: Court Docs Reveal Epic CEO's Anger at Steam's 30% Fees 15 comments

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/03/you-a-holes-court-docs-reveal-epic-ceos-anger-at-steams-30-fees/

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney has long been an outspoken opponent of what he sees as Valve's unreasonable platform fees for listing games on Steam, which start at 30 percent of the total sale price. Now, though, new emails from before the launch of the competing Epic Games Store in 2018 show just how angry Sweeney was with the "assholes" at companies like Valve and Apple for squeezing "the little guy" with what he saw as inflated fees.

The emails, which came out this week as part of Wolfire's price-fixing case against Valve (as noticed by the GameDiscoverCo newsletter), confront Valve managers directly for platform fees Sweeney says are "no longer justifiable."
[...]
The first mostly unredacted email chain from the court documents, from August 2017, starts with Valve co-founder Gabe Newell asking Sweeney if there is "anything we [are] doing to annoy you?" That query was likely prompted by Sweeney's public tweets at the time questioning "why Steam is still taking 30% of gross [when] MasterCard and Visa charge 2-5% per transaction, and CDN bandwidth is around $0.002/GB." Later in the same thread, he laments that "the internet was supposed to obsolete the rent-seeking software distribution middlemen, but here's Facebook, Google, Apple, Valve, etc."
[...]
The second email chain revealed in the lawsuit started in November 2018, with Sweeney offering Valve a heads-up on the impending launch of the Epic Games Store that would come just weeks later. While that move was focused on PC and Mac games, Sweeney quickly pivots to a discussion of Apple's total control over iOS, the subject at the time of a lawsuit whose technicalities were being considered by the Supreme Court.
[...]
In a follow-up email on December 3, just days before the Epic Games Store launch, Sweeney took Valve to task more directly for its policy of offering lower platform fees for the largest developers on Steam.
[...]
After being forwarded the message by Valve's Erik Johnson, Valve COO Scott Lynch simply offered up a sardonic "You mad bro?"

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @02:20AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @02:20AM (#1115168)

    Time to smash the legal system

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @06:55AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @06:55AM (#1115219)

      Smash Bros. Legal System? Are we not still talking about games? Childish pursuits? Pastimes for the less intellectually inclined? World Wresting Entertainment, for those who do not realized that the Wheel of Fortune is fixed? Who is going to win? Trump, or non-Trump? Who will get fired from Celebrity Apprentice President? Amamandalorian? or Cara Done? Well, she wasn't wrong. Just mis-identified the Jews. It is not white Republicans. You will die, since all your base belong to us. Prepare to make your something.

      • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Sunday February 21 2021, @09:07PM

        by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Sunday February 21 2021, @09:07PM (#1115722)

        I think 'troll' is an incorrect mod for this post. It requires something new....like 'totally incomprehensible.'

        --
        Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
  • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by fakefuck39 on Saturday February 20 2021, @02:51AM (4 children)

    by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday February 20 2021, @02:51AM (#1115174)

    how annoying it is that i must reply w/ o reading that apple and valve joint letter. sounds like valve joined apple in something and now is regretting having to spend lawyer money fighting apple so their sales data isn't disclosed. boo fucking hoo. if you join an unethical bully, you'll get punched by your team mate.

    now as for the annoying part, when i click on a pdf in firefox, it shows it in the internal viewer. on mobile, i need to download it, open it in an external viewer, and then close it there so i can open the file manager, go to the downloads folder, and delete the file. don't no one have time for all that busywork.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @03:10AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @03:10AM (#1115179)

      If you have time to fart around with PDFs you have time to fart around doing all the other busywork associated with such a shitty file format.

      Same with other special formats like doc, oft, etc.

      And if you whine that you need it for work, well, that’s just part of what you’re getting paid for.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @06:57AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @06:57AM (#1115220)

        When I click on fakefuck69, I get a "432:fuck not given" message. I wonder, is that normal?

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday February 21 2021, @10:03PM (1 child)

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 21 2021, @10:03PM (#1115739) Homepage Journal

        I would much rather not use .pdf's at all. Unfortunately, most published mathematics papers, when they are available online, are in the form of .pdf's. Perhaps that's a result of the lack of adoption of MathML?
        Or maybe just because TeX is predisposed to make .pdf's?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 22 2021, @04:01AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 22 2021, @04:01AM (#1115873)

          TeX's formula formatting system is superior to MathML. Donald Knuth put a lot of work into getting it just right for his own professional publications, and it shows. The MathML team caught a lot of flak back in the day for not adopting the TeX layout engine when they had the chance.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @04:10AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @04:10AM (#1115191)

    (Yes, I read the joint letter.)

    I've been on the inside in analogous cases, and I don't believe Apple's position, and I do believe Valve's position. If I were the judge I would tell Apple to either show immediate clear cause why this information is vital to their case, or to promptly pay all Valve's expenses to date and then order them to stop hassling Valve without good reason. And then, even if there were some reason so unspeakably compelling that the very heavens themselves cry out for Valve's compliance, I would make it accessible only in strictly controlled, summarised format, and all costs of recovery, analysis and production to be paid for by Apple.

    Because this isn't Apple's opportunity to start throwing elbows.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 20 2021, @09:31AM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 20 2021, @09:31AM (#1115258) Journal

      so unspeakably compelling that the very heavens themselves cry out for Valve's compliance

      Fake tears.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @09:24PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @09:24PM (#1115397)

        bespoke, ai crafted in 4k

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday February 20 2021, @04:23AM (2 children)

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday February 20 2021, @04:23AM (#1115198)

    Just my US$.02 worth.

    From the article it reads like Apple is claiming they need information from Valve about Valve's share of the digital gaming market. Apple claims they will then use that information in their case against Epic over thier game Fortnight.on mobile platforms.

    Valve's counter claim and defense, and why I believe the judge in this case will trow the request out, is that Valve doesn't make or distribute anything in the mobile market, Steam is entirely on the PC desktop market, and is therefor COMPLETELY irrelevant to Apple's case against Epic..

    Most likely this is either Apple trying to do some hand wavy distraction/stall tactic to bog the case down while they argue against Epic and try to force them to give up or negotiate an out of court settlement OR get information about the desktop gaming market from one of the biggest players in that market which Apple will use later for their own desktop gaming platform offering. Even though any confidential data they get from Valve in this case will be protected from being used by laws against confidential information collected as evidence being used for by any parties involved in the case. Sort of like the secret formulae for Coke Cola being revealed in some court case and then Pepsi trying to use it in a new soda.

    Though it is probably both. Stall Epic and get info about Valve's game platform market to use later.

    I haven't taken any classes in business law yet so if anyone who has wants to chime in with clarifications/corrections it would be welcome.

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @07:53AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 20 2021, @07:53AM (#1115234)

      Apple cannot stall Epic with third-party discovery without cause, unless a list of exceptions is met from the FRCP/common law, because Apple is making their own problem here and not Epic. This strikes me as a backdoor attempt to get trade secret information from Valve. Valve has already attempted to comply with the subpoena and, unlike a party, enjoys much more protection under the law and Rule 45. In addition, the data is unduly burdensome due to its detail and seems unlikely to be reasonably calculated such that it will produce admissible evidence absent some other form of justification or relevance with Apple. No this strikes me as a way to get Apple info they need to compete on the Mac Store against Valve or some other purpose not related to litigation. Even if the data is confidential, some subject-matter expert at Apple will end up having to look at the data and Apple will end up getting the information it wants. Happens all the time because you can't delete people's memories.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 22 2021, @04:04AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 22 2021, @04:04AM (#1115874)

        God help us all when the PHBs finally figure out how to delete our memories. Because only He could. :(

(1)