Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by Fnord666 on Friday April 30, @07:36PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the outta-this-world dept.

China, Russia open moon base project to international partners, early details emerge - SpaceNews:

HELSINKI — Russia and China have formally invited countries and international organizations to join the International Lunar Research Station (ILRS) project being developed by the two nations.

China National Space Administration (CNSA) and Russia's Roscosmos said the ILRS project would be open to participation at all stages and levels. This includes planning, design, research, development, implementation and operations.

CNSA and Roscosmos will promote extensive cooperation for the development of human space science and technology and socio-economic progress, said CNSA deputy director Wu Yanhua.

The announcement was made at a sideline event of the 58th session of the Scientific and Technical Subcommittee of the United Nations' Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (COPUOS) April 23.

Russia and China signed a memorandum of understanding on the ILRS in March.

The development also follows Russia backing away from NASA's Gateway project. Roscosmos also recently indicated it was considering withdrawing from the International Space Station partnership in 2025.


Original Submission

Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Reply to Article Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:11PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:11PM (#1144860)

    Which partners will that be? Everyone on ISS will join the Lunar Gateway project already so I guess no one?

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday April 30, @09:02PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday April 30, @09:02PM (#1144881)

      When it turns into a game of "us and them" that's when the bullets start flying.

      --
      My karma ran over your dogma.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:31PM (#1144901)

      Literally wrong, since Russia is on the ISS but is not joining Lunar Gateway.

    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday May 01, @12:00AM (2 children)

      by looorg (578) on Saturday May 01, @12:00AM (#1144942)

      The offer might be empty, but it's an offer. So they'll probably bring someone along from some former USSR republic and such so they can have their own space heroes, or yet another one. Then you have the various BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) since they seem to be working together on other issues. They are not really down with the EU or USA so somewhere in between. It's not that they don't have issues between them etc but that might be besides the point.

      ISS/Lunar Gateway appear to be more of a USA, Japan, EU (or ESA) project. Plus at noted previously it seems that if you are not in that group you can be denied access or banned at the drop of a hat. So perhaps they consider it time to make some new space friends.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by driverless on Saturday May 01, @12:05PM (1 child)

        by driverless (4770) on Saturday May 01, @12:05PM (#1145082)

        Roscosmos has no money, so it's more like they'd like to do it but need funding, which possibly the Chinese will provide, but then again they don't have much incentive to outsource what they can do themselves unless it's a case of buying basic elements like boosters off Roscosmos. I can't really see it going anywhere since Roscosmos really can't bring much to the table.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:21AM (#1145944)

          Ouch! For the Chinese. Anyone giving money to the Russians is a fool. The Ruskies are the masters of trickle down to nothing economics.

          To be clear, nothing against the Ruskies, its their so called "leaders" that have cultivated a culture of extreme money grab at all levels of government - to the very detriment of their own population unfortunately. As a nation of people, they have such potential.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:28PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:28PM (#1144867)

    Hong Kong, Uighurs, and Tibetans have signed up, reports CCP's Global Times. Taiwan is in "negotiation," it said.

    • (Score: 2) by NateMich on Friday April 30, @08:49PM (2 children)

      by NateMich (6662) on Friday April 30, @08:49PM (#1144872)

      What about Iran?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @08:53PM (#1144874)

        You mean Ukraine?

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:06PM (#1144884)

        Bit of difficulty with Iran. Iran says they should build up mosque and halal ranch.

        At first, China says no problem, but after a while, they changed to "no, not gonna happen."

        Though not reported by the Global Times, an insider said she heard the Uighurs pumped their fist shouting "oh yea, baby, allah akbar motherfuckers!" at Iran's suggestion. At that point, CCP reconsidered the whole thing and said "hell, no, bitches. Don't need that allah crap." The insider asked not to be identified.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:23PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:23PM (#1144894)
    We saw the same with the ISS. Why should it be different with China and Russia?
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:46PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:46PM (#1144908)

    Yeah, well I'm going to go build my own moon base! With Blackjack, and hookers!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, @09:55PM (#1144910)

      What are you doing here, Elon?

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by istartedi on Friday April 30, @09:55PM (5 children)

    by istartedi (123) on Friday April 30, @09:55PM (#1144909) Journal

    My first thought was that they haven't even landed. Then my 2nd thought was that since it's been almost 50 years since we landed, from a technology standpoint it's almost like we never landed either. I mean, we're certainly not going back to the Moon with the original Apollo Guidance Computer. I'm sure that's not the only piece of tech from the original program that would be pointless to recreate. Even the people who actually participated in the program as junior technicians are at or near retirement, so institutional knowledge of a lunar landing program is long, long gone.

    We should assume we're all on a clean slate. It's like a whole new Moon race at this point.

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by driverless on Saturday May 01, @12:07PM

      by driverless (4770) on Saturday May 01, @12:07PM (#1145083)

      I mean, we're certainly not going back to the Moon with the original Apollo Guidance Computer.

      Definitely not! I mean, it's not skinnable, you can't run Javascript on it, and the cloud support is nonexistant, how can you possibly run a moon mission without that?

    • (Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Saturday May 01, @05:03PM

      by Socrastotle (13446) on Saturday May 01, @05:03PM (#1145153) Journal

      Something that's easy to forget given the state of NASA today is that Kennedy gave his 'we chose to go to the moon speech' in September 1962. We'd only just sent the first man into a brief orbit around the Earth in February, and that very nearly ended in catastrophe. We got really lucky. Nonetheless, less than 7 years later Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin would walk on the moon. And it went perfectly. And we did that with 0 experience, 0 directly-relevant knowledge, an average annual budget half of NASA's today (inflation adjusted), and 'super computers' a fraction as powerful as your phone.

      The point I make with this is that getting to, landing on, and even colonizing other planets (and bodies) is not nearly as an inherently challenging a notion as it might seem. The problem is extrinsic: politics and money.

      Media such as this [youtube.com] was released shortly after the moon landing - 'Whitey on the Moon'. Essentially, 'Everything on Earth isn't perfect yet, so so why are we flying people to the moon (alongside lots of racial stuff tossed in).' The myopia of such sentiment is exceeded only by its prevalence in the minds of those who would examine the finger when a great man points to the moon. Today such notions would be amplified, in the United States, exponentially - even if just for low effort clickbaiting. We achieved victory during the Cold Era war because the landing was a proxy of a war, except one where we do great things instead of killing each other. But of course once we achieved victory we, remaining true to the war analogy, claimed our spoils, ran a few victory laps, and then shut it all down.

      I do not expect to see China/Russia run into many, if any obstacles. They both have the political will/power, China has the money, and Russia has the expertise. By contrast I would be extremely surprised if we get back to the moon anytime in the near future. We have major social political obstacles, and also corruption issues. Boeing is going to want in, owns congress, and is set to play a key role - yet they seem to have lost any and all ability as a aerospace company, and arguably even as an aviation company. And there will also be money issues. Handing out trillions of dollars when it's going towards kickbacks is signed off without a hitch, but directing what may be a tiny fraction of that to get to the moon? That's going to face major and regular opposition at every step of the process.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Socrastotle on Saturday May 01, @07:22PM (2 children)

      by Socrastotle (13446) on Saturday May 01, @07:22PM (#1145200) Journal

      One random aside I also just considered and decided to look up. It hasn't been almost 50 years. We landed in 1969, it's been 52 years. And the Apollo program itself started in 1961, 60 years ago. The life expectancy [cdc.gov] of an American born in 1950 was 68 years - 2018. So somebody who got hired at NASA as a junior tech, on the year of the landing, in 1969 at the age of 19, would have been expected to have died 3 years ago. I don't think you meant *that* "retire".

      Those data are really kind of mind boggling in another way. We're reaching the age where most of everybody who got to experience the moon landing as an adult, full aware of the implications, hope, and meaning of it all - are dead. What a travesty for somebody to be born at the end of the era of great and awful wars, live through the culmination of hyper-rapid progress in space to witness that in their twenties, and only to die 50 years later still looking back to the past for mankind's greatest achievement.

      • (Score: 2) by istartedi on Sunday May 02, @01:07AM (1 child)

        by istartedi (123) on Sunday May 02, @01:07AM (#1145248) Journal

        By "since we landed", I was referring to the last mission, Apollo 17 in 1972. I was assuming that a 23 year old junior tech fresh out of college might have been sitting at some console and might still be working NASA simply because they love the job even at 70. I didn't want to get in to the very strong likelihood of mortality simply because it's not fun; but I do indeed think it's a strong possibility that most people who sat in the control room for the Apollo missions are dead. This is especially true when you consider that life expectancy wasn't quite as long back then, and it was a high stress job.

        Now I really, really want to hear from that person that was in NASA (or even at contractors to cast a wider net) at the age of 30 and is still plugging away at 80, doing some other related job. While it's not common it is possible. Katherine Johnson [wikipedia.org] was already pushing 50 during the Apollo launches, and she just passed away last year at the age of 101.

        • (Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Sunday May 02, @02:30PM

          by Socrastotle (13446) on Sunday May 02, @02:30PM (#1145392) Journal

          Yeah agreed, it'd be extremely interesting to hear from somebody who lived through the change and could describe what/how things changed from an inside perspective over the decades.

  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 30, @11:54PM

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 30, @11:54PM (#1144939) Journal

    We'll have... LunarMax!

    --
    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by HammeredGlass on Saturday May 01, @12:05AM

    by HammeredGlass (12241) on Saturday May 01, @12:05AM (#1144944)

    China is laughing all the way to Davos at how their puppet hands them more and more power.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @12:16PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @12:16PM (#1145091)

    Is that *really* a good idea?

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by looorg on Saturday May 01, @12:33PM (1 child)

      by looorg (578) on Saturday May 01, @12:33PM (#1145096)

      How are you going to stop them? Declare war? A harshly worded letter? A debate in the UN?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:32AM (#1145951)

        Exactly this! We can't even stop them from building fake islands in the South China Sea and claim sovereignty over that plastic land and the surrounding waters.

        At the very slightest of criticism from anyone, they'll cry havoc and bring the full force of their political vehicle, which is backed by substantial economic assets, down to bear against whoever it is without the slightest hesitation - both from the legal and highly illegal front.

        They're playing a game they can't lose at this point - whereas the rest of the world is still caught up trying to play the politically correct game with them, such fools!

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @05:31PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @05:31PM (#1145160)

      Thinking about your question explains an immense amount about the world, and even society.

      The United States has been one of the most dangerous forces acting against world peace for decades. Think about the fact that we literally have preemptively invaded and destroyed numerous countries around the world including Libya and Iraq. We have staged violent uprisings in many other places around the world and installed deeply unpopular, and often fascist leaders, including in Iran, Chile, and elsewhere. And we have attempted (or are attempting) to do so in even more countries including Venezuela, Syria, and elsewhere. Why did anybody "allow" us to do this? Because nobody "allows" anybody to do anything except when they control them. And nobody controls us.

      This is also why people who want to destroy the United States, from within, are idiots. I despise our foreign policy (and our 'modern' domestic policy alongside), but there's also no room for visions of unique ethical superiority from any other country should they have been in our shoes. It is only when a nation (or person) has complete superiority that one can finally observe their real character. And history has shown - it's rarely a pretty sight. This is why China is also becoming increasingly blatant with their pursuits that run contrary to Western notions. China is no longer controlled by anybody. Far from it, they are rapidly moving to supplant our role as world leader - primarily through economic growth.

      Many of the largest and most powerful corporations in the world, which is to say US corporations, are becoming obsequious to China. It's not because they support or endorse China, in most cases I suspect they despise them, but because China's already the world's largest economy and is becoming bigger faster than the rest of the world. Play ball with China, or your corporation has no future. And so China, in effect, ends up controlling these corporations - even when they are nominally 'American.' These corporations, in turn, effectively control governments of their respective countries (including ours) and you will see the world gradually beginning to kowtow towards a Chinese perspective.

      And should the United States ever fall, or become hopelessly mired in internal corruption and infighting, then this will all simply come to be far faster than otherwise.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @03:41AM (#1145959)

        The only difference between China and the US is China considers no one an ally and everyone to be subjugated. There's no nation, small or big, resourceful or not, it will not try to subjugate.

        At least with the US, it will try to keep an arms length with its allies and not meddle as directly as it does. Also, it will leave folks that it has no interest in alone to some extent.

        Overall as a whole between the 2 evils, one is clearly a better than the other.

        Practically, it can go either way depending on where you're from - i.e. a lot of folks from the middle east might consider the US a lot worse only due to direct exposure to the US and none to the China; the Uighurs, Tibetans, Nepalese would be the flip side of that.

(1)