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posted by Fnord666 on Monday May 03, @05:05PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the Why-would-you-want-to? dept.

https://betanews.com/2021/05/01/vmware-has-no-plans-to-support-windows-10-on-m1-macs-windows-is-second-priority-behind-linux/

VMware product line manager Michael Roy has penned a lengthy blog post in which he reveals that "running x86 operating systems on Apple silicon is not something we are planning to deliver with this project". One of the reasons he gives for this is his personal belief that "this platform will be one to more rapidly introduce new experiences at the expense of cutting away from the past. Where we're headed is anyone's guess, but I am confident the direction we're moving isn't backwards".

But this is not the reason for VMware taking the position that "Windows is second priority behind Linux". Writing about the licensing terms for Windows on ARM, Roy says:

[...] The Insider Preview program says: "To install Windows 10 Insider Preview Builds, you must be running a licensed version of Windows 10 on your device." And as far as we are aware, there is no way to buy a Windows 10 ARM license for a Mac with Apple silicon. There have been plenty of discussions on the topic from users and the media, and from the Insider Download Page, it reads: [...]

(Emphasis in original retained.)


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday May 03, @05:26PM (3 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday May 03, @05:26PM (#1145733) Journal

    It's like that giant Monty Python foot squashing all human progress

    --
    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday May 03, @05:35PM (2 children)

      by ikanreed (3164) on Monday May 03, @05:35PM (#1145738) Journal

      Please, for the last decade, human progress has been exceptionally fast in the following areas:
      *Insane conspiracy theories
      *Improving google rankings for shitty e-stores
      *Targeting ads to hispanic long-haul truck drivers who take thursdays off
      *Getting angry at strangers
      *Making hour-long videos analyzing 10 minute cartoon shows from 20 years ago
      *Varieties of non-dairy milk

      How can you say that?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday May 03, @05:58PM (2 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 03, @05:58PM (#1145745) Journal

    Even Microsoft has embraced Linux.

    Microsoft seems to have difficulty maintaining Windows. Imagine that. I don't even want to have nightmares about what might be hiding inside Windows code base. Biding its time. Watching. Waiting to come out.

    --
    The opposite of Pro is Con. The opposite of Progress is ___gress.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by theluggage on Monday May 03, @06:15PM (4 children)

    by theluggage (1797) on Monday May 03, @06:15PM (#1145755)

    And as far as we are aware, there is no way to buy a Windows 10 ARM license for a Mac with Apple silicon

    As far as I'm aware, Microsoft doesn't sell retail copies of Windows for ARM, full stop. They license it to OEMs who want to make ARM PCs...

    So Parallels & VMWare need to go and ask Microsoft if they can have an OEM license to resell Windows for ARM bundled with their hypervisor. That's what used to happen in the god old days of SoftWindows etc. on PPC Mac. In fact, the copy of x86 Windows 10 I'm currently running on my Mac came (legitimately) bundled with Parallels at a bargain price.

    Maybe they have and MS won't play ball, or want unreasonable terms - but that hasn't been reported (TFA says "We have reached out to Microsoft for comment and clarification on the matter." not "We asked MS how much for an OEM license and they said 'go fish'")

    Also, the WoA version that currently runs (quite well, apparently) on Parallels for M1 Macs is an insider's preview which wouldn't be available for retail yet anyway... and last I heard some of the lesser-used Windows utilities were still ARM32 binaries which flat out won't run on Apple Silicon, so there isn't a shrink-wrapped product ready for the big time yet. The version of Parallels for Apple Silicon was only released properly in the last few weeks (before that it was a 'tech preview').

    ...so it's a bit early to say "never".

    Meanwhile, QEMU and a Mac fork called "UTM" are running (slowly) on Apple Silicon, so you could install your legit copy of Windows 10 (x86) on that and then "you are running a licensed version of Windows 10 on your device". Well, waiting for it to load Minesweeper. I somehow doubt that MS are going to go after individuals over this (there are plenty of sites describing how to install those insider's builds on Raspberry Pis and Apple Silicon that haven't been C&D's yet...). OK, so that sort of license smart-assery isn't very professional, but neither is using an "insider's preview" for production work, so it's back to waiting for an official solution.

    It comes down to whether Microsoft want to be awkward about Apple Silicon. If they want Windows for ARM to gain traction, they'd be a bit dumb to ignore Apple Silicon (if M1 Macs don't already outnumber Surface X and other Windows-on-ARM devices, they still will). If they're planning "Microsoft Silicon", though, and are embarrassed about the reports of Windows on M1 (via Parallels) running rings around the Surface X then they may not want to encourage a competitor.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by agr on Monday May 03, @07:56PM (2 children)

      by agr (7134) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 03, @07:56PM (#1145792)

      Microsoft refusing to support Apple silicon would be like a heroin dealer refusing to sell to people in rehab. It’s a bad business decision. You want to keep people hooked on your product as long a possible.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @08:29PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @08:29PM (#1145808)

        Perhaps Microsoft would prefer more folks spinning up Windows VMs in Azure, and skip the middleman. Not saying this is any way a preferred solution (for anyone other than Microsoft that is).

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @09:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @09:41PM (#1145823)
          Or maybe they’ll come out with a version that will run on the M2 (why yes, the M1 is already obsolete).
    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday May 04, @03:00AM

      by driverless (4770) on Tuesday May 04, @03:00AM (#1145939)

      So Parallels & VMWare need to go and ask Microsoft if they can have an OEM license to resell Windows for ARM bundled with their hypervisor.

      Bwahahahahaha!

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Monday May 03, @06:18PM

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Monday May 03, @06:18PM (#1145757)

    (I work for Microsoft as a customer engineer (PFE)and have very little internal visibility into this topic.)

    I have two customers that have asked about I've asked about support for M1 macs. One of them got it working and it's super-zippy. I hope we support it in the future.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @06:39PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, @06:39PM (#1145763)

    Does anyone use one? I would like to know whether virtualbox can run x86 virtual machines on it.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by vux984 on Tuesday May 04, @12:31AM (1 child)

      by vux984 (5045) on Tuesday May 04, @12:31AM (#1145873)

      From what I'm aware of VirtualBox is strictly virtualization, and won't do cpu emulation.

      I ended up buying a new surface laptop 4; moving from a macbook pro. Didn't really want to be on the bleeding edge for M1 compatibility issues with virtualization/emulation/docker containers/etc.
      I've been pretty impressed by WSL2, and everything I want to virtualize, containerize, or otherwise mess with will work. The only thing I give up is macOS which I find pretty much equally annoying to windows 10; so that's a wash.

      And hey, the surface laptop has a USB-A port, which is something I actually still need pretty regularly.

      The M1 is pretty cool, but when i looked at buying one it was more tradeoffs and compromises than i was really interested in. At this stage, the only thing I'd buy mac hardware for is to develop for macs/iphones which I'm not currently doing, and if I were to, I'd probably just add a mac mini to my home office.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @09:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @09:50PM (#1146299)

        Perhaps Rosetta 2 can run amd64 virtualbox until a native version exists with the required CPU emulation.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @02:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 04, @02:14AM (#1145921)

    https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/05/03/2037237/bill-gates-and-melinda-gates-end-their-marriage-after-27-years [slashdot.org]

    Those female things with lumps on the front are the work of the devil, which means the Windows operating system stands a chance at not only surviving, but evolving into a first-class operating system.

  • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Tuesday May 04, @04:13PM

    by shrewdsheep (5215) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 04, @04:13PM (#1146206)

    Running an ARM version would not allow most software to run. Or has Windows Rosetta-like functionality I'm not aware of? Or does VMWare support Qemu-like dynamic translation to run a x86 version of Windows? What would be the purpose? I'm always surprised to see people boasting a Mac only to see them make every effort to run Windows applications.

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