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posted by martyb on Wednesday June 09, @04:08PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the Flip-a-coin-for-profit dept.

Bitcoin Price: Cryptocurrency Investors See Red As Market Value Drops:

Crypto investors are waking to sea of red this morning as the entire market took an absolute hammering overnight for the second time in just a few weeks.

The price of bitcoin fell sharply on overnight, approaching a dreaded $US30,000 ($A38,800) threshold it has not crossed since January and dragging other cryptocurrencies in its wake.

At around 2am, bitcoin fell 8.6 per cent to a value of $US31,501 ($A40,715), a level not seen since mid-May, when the volatile cryptocurrency temporarily lost 30 per cent in one session.

The second-largest cryptocurrency, ethereum, lost 11.2 per cent of its value, falling to $US2361 ($A3051).

Bitcoin's value has recovered slightly since the drop, rising to $US33,738 ($A43,606) at around 7am today – but, across the board, almost all of the smaller cryptos have been battered overnight.

[...] No concrete reason appeared to explain the price drop on Tuesday, but some analysts pointed to the seizure of $2.3 million ($A3 million) worth of bitcoin belonging to the Darkside hackers by US authorities as a possible factor.

[...] The US managed to recover almost all the bitcoin ransom paid to the perpetrators of the cyber attack on the Colonial Pipeline last month.

[...] It is being seen as a sign that law enforcement is capable of pursuing online criminals even when they operate outside the nation's borders – and, crucially, that crypto isn't beyond government control.


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Ingar on Wednesday June 09, @04:12PM (18 children)

    by Ingar (801) on Wednesday June 09, @04:12PM (#1143562) Homepage

    Now we wait for graphics card prices to come down.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:14PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:14PM (#1143565)
      Heh. You can still play your games RIGHT NOW, just a little less pretty.
    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday June 09, @04:33PM (1 child)

      by looorg (578) on Wednesday June 09, @04:33PM (#1143573)

      Waiting for a new batch of cryptobros to come around and invest, now that it's down it's ample opportunity to once again get in on the bandwagon to financial freedom ... or something.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:11PM (#1143616)

        Yep, that's pretty much what I plan to do.

    • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Wednesday June 09, @05:31PM (4 children)

      by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @05:31PM (#1143601)
      Too late, it bounced back already.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:09PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:09PM (#1143614)

        No, not yet. [coindesk.com] Hint: look at the 3 month and 1 year price histories.

        • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Wednesday June 09, @06:21PM (2 children)

          by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @06:21PM (#1143620)

          Crypto investors are waking to sea of red this morning as the entire market took an absolute hammering overnight for the second time in just a few weeks.

          The price of bitcoin fell sharply on overnight, approaching a dreaded $US30,000 ($A38,800) threshold it has not crossed since January and dragging other cryptocurrencies in its wake.

          At around 2am, bitcoin fell 8.6 per cent to a value of $US31,501 ($A40,715), a level not seen since mid-May, when the volatile cryptocurrency temporarily lost 30 per cent in one session.

          Your own link shows it's now at over 36K, up over 12% in the past day. So yes, it has bounced back from the overnight "bloodbath" the summary is talking about.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:17PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:17PM (#1143646)

            And you haven't been paying attention. Cryptocurrencies have been regularly bouncing up and down by 10% or more per day over the last few months (at least). This is not news.

    • (Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday June 09, @06:06PM (8 children)

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @06:06PM (#1143612) Journal

      I bought an Asus Phoenix GeForce GTX 1650 just over a year ago, and they've gone up in price since then!

      I don't do gambling as a rule, not in any serious way, but after the Bitcoin crash over a week ago I decided to buy some. I have an on-line bank account that I got a few years ago to convert from Sterling to Euros cheaply. It now lets you deal in commodities, crypto and stock. So I put in a limit order and got some Ethereum and some Bitcoin. I bought some more Bitcoin on the latest dip. I'm about 10% up after trading fees. It really is a small amount though. I can now afford to buy a beer in a pub with my profit. It's free money, so I thought I might as well have some.

      --
      Now I am become PHB, the destroyer of dreams.
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:22PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:22PM (#1143622)

        > I can now afford to buy a beer in a pub with my profit.

        Sounds like we have a similar level of interest in gambling.

        Some years back, stopping in Lost Wages (Los Vegas) with a friend, I threw a few quarters in a slot machine-and got back a few bucks. We had ice cream with the winnings.

        • (Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday June 09, @08:04PM (2 children)

          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @08:04PM (#1143680) Journal

          Excellent. Quit while you're ahead.

          --
          Now I am become PHB, the destroyer of dreams.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @10:32PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @10:32PM (#1143731)

            i won some lottery. bought a new vacuum cleaner ...

            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:57AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:57AM (#1143752)

              ...that sucks.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:17PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:17PM (#1143693)

        It's free money, so I thought I might as well have some.

        Did you report the profit as your income for tax purposes? Or are you dodging that?

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Wednesday June 09, @08:31PM (1 child)

          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @08:31PM (#1143704) Journal

          Technically, it's not profit yet because I haven't sold it, but yes when I am lucky enough to have made over £12,300 profit, I will pay Capital Gains Tax on the rest. Only £12,295 to go!

          --
          Now I am become PHB, the destroyer of dreams.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @09:22PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @09:22PM (#1143716)

            so you did not buy the beer from profit, more from promise. however that does mean you can get another beer when you actually cash out. well played sir.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Aegis on Thursday June 10, @01:22AM

        by Aegis (6714) on Thursday June 10, @01:22AM (#1143757)

        I bought an Asus Phoenix GeForce GTX 1650 just over a year ago, and they've gone up in price since then!

        When the gold rush comes you don't invest in gold. You invest in shovels!

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 09, @04:20PM (8 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 09, @04:20PM (#1143568)

    The collective delusion willing to pay for bitcoin decided it was worth less this morning... as far as inherent value in a bitcoin? That has always been worthless.

    If you want to trade public keys on a public ledger, there are so so many ways to do that that don't involve consuming more electricity than a mid-sized European country.

    --
    My karma ran over your dogma.
    • (Score: 2) by tizan on Wednesday June 09, @04:48PM (2 children)

      by tizan (3245) on Wednesday June 09, @04:48PM (#1143580)

      Indeed...I have a oval stone in my backyard...i value it at $10 ...I am sure if i get a few friends drunk they may be willing to buy it at $100.
      But who cares...But why should the world care...its not like somebody else will find it hard to buy food if the value of my stone goes up..it just the fool who is willing to give me the money for it that it affects.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:19PM (#1143619)

        I care because that same trick when applied to cryptocurrency means that people buy up all of the gaming cards in order to make money (as in, make it out of thin air) and make it impossible for me to get one at any reasonable price.

        cryptocurrency = fools gold.

      • (Score: 2) by Anti-aristarchus on Wednesday June 09, @09:54PM

        by Anti-aristarchus (14390) on Wednesday June 09, @09:54PM (#1143722) Journal

        I want to buy your stone. I bid $100.99, in DogeCoin.

        --
        More truth to be done.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:58PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:58PM (#1143587)

      This is one of the inevitable consequences of deciding to assess the value of something based purely on what people will pay for it. A much better system would be to value things roughly based on how many resources you needed to produce it or how much effort it saves you is a much better measure for many things. The problem, is that doing that doesn't encourage people to overspend and buy crap that they don't need or really even want, which is death for an economy that's based so heavily on customer spending.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 09, @05:24PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 09, @05:24PM (#1143598)

        A much better system would be to value things roughly based on how many resources you needed to produce it

        Ironically, bitcoin roughly follows this rule. Anytime I have analyzed the cost of efficient mining, I found it to be just slightly higher than the cost of obtaining BTC on the open market. When you factor in people with access to cheaper (or stolen) electricity and compute resources, that pretty well explains why the cost of mining tracks the cost of market purchase.

        --
        My karma ran over your dogma.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 09, @07:42PM (2 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 09, @07:42PM (#1143664)

      Cryptocurrency and NFTs are both functioning on Tom Sawyer economics: In order to make something act valuable in the marketplace, you just make it hard to obtain.

      Another major trigger in the drop in price is the IRS announcing efforts to make it harder to use cryptocurrency for tax evasion and money laundering purposes, which I think is worth mentioning. What I haven't seen, yet, is use cases in which cryptocurrency is superior to government-backed currency as a medium of exchange for non-criminal transactions, which makes the "currency" part of their name questionable as well.

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 09, @08:53PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 09, @08:53PM (#1143708)

        The fuzzy intersection is: most crypto-heads, particularly those who cling to proof of work schemes, espouse a deep distrust of government - making them want to conduct their normal business as a criminal would: out of sight and therefore out of control of the government. Funny how they also inherently depend, daily, on the government and police to defend their rights to privacy, property, etc.

        The laughable thing I have been mostly fruitlessly pointing out to these "gubbmint out my bidness" dweebs is that the very design of blockchain transactions makes them inherently the most traceable form of transaction ever conceived. There may be layers of obfuscation surrounding BTC exchange, but those could more easily be set up around any other form of exchange. The blockchain itself is irrefutable, otherwise you could spend your BTC multiple times.

        --
        My karma ran over your dogma.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 10, @04:54AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 10, @04:54AM (#1143810) Journal

        Cryptocurrency and NFTs are both functioning on Tom Sawyer economics: In order to make something act valuable in the marketplace, you just make it hard to obtain.

        Well, money can't act as money, if you don't control its scarcity. You'll end up with hyperinflation and a dead currency. So yes, something that acts valuable is necessary to have a currency.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:47PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:47PM (#1143578)

    For your mom.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday June 09, @04:49PM (49 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @04:49PM (#1143581) Journal

    Other than some novelty, and being able to buy a pizza with a digital currency, what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have. Please list some. Thank you.

    I can see that some people might want to anonymously transfer money to avoid it being taxed. But that is tax avoidance.

    I can see that some people want to anonymously transfer money for good and/or services that they don't want to talk about. Or that they don't want anyone to know they are purchasing. Generally something that is illegal. Drugs. Guns. Prostitution. Child exploitation photographs. Violence, Arson or Murder for hire.

    Are there any really good uses of anonymous currency? Something that promotes the life, health or betterment of anyone without harming anyone? (I'll take the position that drugs don't count because there is a reason they are illegal or prescription.)

    --
    A Digital stupidity meter can't get pegged like a mechanical meter always does.
    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday June 09, @04:51PM (5 children)

      by isostatic (365) on Wednesday June 09, @04:51PM (#1143582) Journal

      Buying porn? Or sex toys? Stuff that could be embarrassing but isn't illegal.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Wednesday June 09, @05:00PM (4 children)

        by looorg (578) on Wednesday June 09, @05:00PM (#1143589)

        Isn't this what cash is for? Pay on delivery. Still if you are ashamed of your gargantuan dildo collection perhaps you don't deserve it ...

        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday June 09, @06:46PM (1 child)

          by isostatic (365) on Wednesday June 09, @06:46PM (#1143636) Journal

          Not sure what couriers do cash-on-delivery. If you want a specific sex doll custom made to look like Aunt Petunia from Harry Potter and shipped to Hicksview Arizona, having an anonymous parcel delivered by USPS without it showing up on your bank statement?

          • (Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday June 09, @07:57PM

            by looorg (578) on Wednesday June 09, @07:57PM (#1143674)

            I do admit that I have not been ordering large quantities of sex dolls and drugs but I imagine that a lot of them accept cash if the order is just significant enough. Most of the big delivery companies have a few pickup points in town and they have so far been ok with me paying in cash when I pick up the package there, but then this has mostly been for dull things like books, clothing and hardware.

            I imagine, but I don't really want to, the Harry Potter Aunt Petunia sex doll is a very expensive piece of hardware. I'm sure they could be convinced to go for cash or a money order. Certainly so if you a valued repeat customer.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @01:45AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @01:45AM (#1143763)

          Isn't this what cash is for? Pay on delivery. Still if you are ashamed of your gargantuan dildo collection perhaps you don't deserve it ...

          Is that a gargantuan collection of dildos or a collection of gargantuan dildos?

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday June 09, @04:51PM (8 children)

      by Tork (3914) on Wednesday June 09, @04:51PM (#1143584)

      Other than some novelty, and being able to buy a pizza with a digital currency, what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have.

      Transactions are resolved immediately, 24-7. Ever tried purchasing stock over the weekend?

      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:02PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:02PM (#1143590)

        Yes, but these are supposed to be currencies, not betting discs. The only way that their value is supposed to fluctuate is based upon how many of them are being cashed out versus bought. People aren't supposed to be buying them in order to sell at a profit later on. That's not what currency is for. Currency is just supposed to be a store of value so that you don't need to take delivery of that pork belly at the same time that you're trying to unload your potatoes. You can sell the potatoes now and buy the pork belly later if you so choose. Or you can buy some of the pork belly and something else rather than having to figure out how to balance the number of pork bellies with the number of potatoes.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:12PM (#1143593)

          > Currency is just supposed to be a store of value

          Yes and the fewer people think the dollar has value, the more people think bitcoin has value and the better a hedge against fiat inflation it becomes.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday June 09, @05:15PM (5 children)

          by Tork (3914) on Wednesday June 09, @05:15PM (#1143594)

          Yes, but these are supposed to be currencies, not betting discs. The only way that their value is supposed to fluctuate is based upon how many of them are being cashed out versus bought.

          Can I please see the rule book on how currency exchanges work?

          --
          Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 09, @06:27PM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @06:27PM (#1143626) Homepage Journal

            I was thinking the same thing. Long before computers happened to the world, fortunes were made, and fortunes were lost on the currency exchanges.

            --
            "Trust the science" -- Tony Fauci and his army of psycophants
            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday June 09, @06:55PM (1 child)

              by Tork (3914) on Wednesday June 09, @06:55PM (#1143640)
              I'm curious if there are regulations that foreign currencies have to endure that digital currencies don't. But if I'm not allowed to buy currencies low and sell high because they're not 'betting discs' I'd like to see that in writing.
              --
              Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:37PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:37PM (#1143891)

            You're an idiot then. Currency is for temporary storage of value when you're buying and selling. If you want it for longer periods, you really should be properly investing it in something that engages in productive economic activity. Forex exists because you need some method of exchanging it and it's typically short term purchases. You don't typically having people buying up all the currency from one country or another as an investment strategy. If you want to make money buying and selling currency, you either did that or you loan people money to do so.

            Currency that fluctuates wildly is useless as a currency.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @04:48PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @04:48PM (#1143938)
              Your particular brand of self-confident misinformed numb-nuttery is amusing to read.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:28PM (#1143600)

      what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have. Please list some. Thank you.

      No problemo [reuters.com]

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday June 09, @07:34PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @07:34PM (#1143659) Journal

        I almost mentioned that article, but thanks!

        --
        A Digital stupidity meter can't get pegged like a mechanical meter always does.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:54PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @05:54PM (#1143606)

      Other than some novelty, and being able to buy a pizza with a digital currency, what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have. Please list some. Thank you.

      Digital currency has the same purposes as any other kind of money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#Functions [wikipedia.org]

      1. Medium of exchange
      2. Measure of value
      3. Store of value

      I think that you meant to ask: What advantages does digital currency have compared to alternative forms of money? The answer depends on the form of money you are talking about:

      • Cash: Digital currency doesn't require you to be in the same physical location.
      • Check: Digital currency doesn't take multiple days to process.
      • Credit card: Digital currency doesn't skim a large percentage off the top.
      • Wire transfer: Very few merchants accept wire transfer.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:18PM (#1143618)

        I will also add that some of us are buying cryptocurrencies as a hedge against fiat currencies. I predict if/when the US dollar collapses, crypto will shoot to the moon.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 09, @07:45PM (3 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 09, @07:45PM (#1143667)

        Credit card: Digital currency doesn't skim a large percentage off the top.

        I'm curious how you concluded that 2-3% is "a large percentage".

        --
        The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:23PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:23PM (#1143696)

          I'm curious how you concluded that 2-3% is "a large percentage".

          It's actually 0.5% or lower in many places these days

          https://www.valuepenguin.com/interchange-fees-na-vs-eu [valuepenguin.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:26PM (#1143903)

          I was thinking of pass-through transactions. Some goods pass through many hands on the way to market. If the bank gets a 2-3% cut every time the goods change hands, that is a large percentage.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:31PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:31PM (#1143627)

      If you're Elon, crypto is a great opportunity to pump and dump...so that Tesla can keep going for a little longer.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @11:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @11:25PM (#1143738)

        While Musk may be doing a bit of the pump and dump thing in the short term, I also think that he can't completely control the entire crypto market indefinitely. This juggernaut is now much too big for any one person to control. Hell, I think this is now much too big for even the coordinated actions of several governments working together to control.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by anotherblackhat on Wednesday June 09, @06:34PM (16 children)

      by anotherblackhat (4722) on Wednesday June 09, @06:34PM (#1143630)

      what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have

      Digital currencies are good for transacting online.

      Anonymous currencies are useful when there's a fear that some entity will attempt to regulate or prevent your transactions, or outright seize your currency.
      Naturally, the people who are most afraid of this are people engaged in business that the local government considers illegal, but it also includes any transaction which some other powerful entity considers bad.
      For example, in places where it's legal to pay for an abortion, there are people who will threaten you for doing so.
      Likewise, paying for sex, liquor, tobacco, chocolate and caffeine have detractors who will shun or threaten you for doing that too (legal or not).
      Even something as mundane as giving money to someone in your own family could put you at odds with others in your family.

      There is a right to privacy. Anonymous transactions protect that right.

      I'm curious, other than taxes (which is only dubiously legitimate IMO), is there a legitimate reason for non-anonymous currency?
      Seems to me nobody has a right to know other people's business.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 09, @08:02PM (15 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 09, @08:02PM (#1143679)

        Some entity will attempt to regulate or prevent your transactions

        So here's a partial list of stuff that falls under "some entity will attempt to regulate or prevent your transactions":
        - Human trafficking.
        - Money laundering.
        - Tax evasion.
        - Illegal weapons trade.
        - Funding terrorist groups.
        - Murder for hire.
        - Ransomware cyberattacks.
        - Buying / selling child pornography.
        - Illegal gambling.

        You're damn right I want to make those harder to do anonymously: Contrary to what you might believe, your blackjack, hookers and blow aren't victimless crimes - just because you don't see the victims yourself don't mean the victims don't exist. Now, I know as someone of a libertarian mindset you think the right solution is to legalize the blackjack, hookers and blow, but until that happens people are getting injured, imprisoned, or killed to make them happen.

        As for why I'm generally happy with non-anonymous currency: When I'm doing business with somebody, it helps a lot to know who I'm dealing with to provide appropriate customer service. For instance, retail returns become a lot easier to verify when you can see that you're talking to a particular John Smith, who bought a gadget for $34.99 last week before coming back to ask for a return. A receipt can work in theory, but John Smith may have forgotten it or thrown it out, or somebody else may have forged it or picked it up and is returning an old gadget that was lying around their garage.

        --
        The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:15PM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:15PM (#1143690)

          - Human trafficking.
          The current border crisis allowed to happen, and the organizations enabling it.
          - Money laundering.
          Funding to/from BLM and other Soros/globalist Democrat fundraising.
          - Tax evasion.
          Billionaires and multinationals don't pay taxes.
          - Illegal weapons trade.
          Eric Holder and Ted Lieu's gun-running.
          - Funding terrorist groups.
          Like McCain funding ISIS, or our funding of Al-Qaeda.
          - Murder for hire.
          Podesta's orchestrated murders of Scalia and Seth Rich
          - Ransomware cyberattacks.
          Which the FBI magically have the keys to, but "Russian Hackers" are still a bogus bogeyman
          - Buying / selling child pornography.
          Hunter Biden, Liddle Adam Schitt, the entire fucking Pentagon, everybody else associated with Epstein/Maxwell.
          - Illegal gambling.
          Silverstein betting on the WTC attacks, チews running pro sports with inside information.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Mykl on Wednesday June 09, @10:56PM (6 children)

            by Mykl (1112) on Wednesday June 09, @10:56PM (#1143733)

            They're not counter-arguments - they are just childish finger pointing and not even attempting to address the concerns outlined by GP.

            I can't resist one of your pokes though, so I'll get into the mud with you. You know who was very close friends with Epstein? Hint: he has an orange face, a comb-over and likes to cheat at golf.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:27AM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:27AM (#1143773)

              Can't you find enough to hate about orange-man-bad without making stuff up?

              Such good friends he banned Jeff from Mar-a-Lago.
              Such good friends that he never flew on Jeff's Kiddie Express and never went to Kiddie Island with Jeff and Bill and Andy.
              Such good friends that the only photo of them together was taken at a function they both attended back in the 90's.

              • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Thursday June 10, @03:22AM (3 children)

                by Mykl (1112) on Thursday June 10, @03:22AM (#1143789)

                They knew each other better than you'd like to admit [nzherald.co.nz]. Kind of appropriate that they really fell out over a Real Estate deal - that's definitely Orange Man's MO.

                You're right that there are not a lot of published pictures of the two of them together (but a simple Google Image search shows photos of them together in at least 3 different outfits) - not surprising really given the parties they liked to have together.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:21PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:21PM (#1143902)

                  If you could put aside your hatred of Trump and look at those stories objectively, you would see why half the population disregards them. They read like the sort of obnoxious propaganda that is used in the lead up to wars and other atrocities. "The Dirty Hun is Coming to Kill your Children and Rape your Women. JOIN UP NOW to Stop the Evil."

                  It is all feeling and kindergarten level circular rhetoric. You must hate Trump because he is evil. He must be evil because we all hate him. He must do bad things because evil people do bad things and he is evil.

                  In that story you cite, it is all hearsay and spin. Of course two high profile figures in the same city like Trump and Epstein were acquainted. Is Trump a sleazebag? Certainly, but their "falling out" was because Trump didn't like Epstein going after underage girls in his club. Trump liked young, pretty, women. Epstein liked kids. Look up who was willing to testify against Epstein at his first trial.

                  Funny how no lefty will admit that Bill Clinton and Epstein were much closer friends than Trump ever was, or that Bill took many flights with him to holiday on kiddie island.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 13, @02:16AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 13, @02:16AM (#1144736)

                    Funny how no lefty will admit that Bill Clinton and Epstein were much closer friends than Trump ever was, or that Bill took many flights with him to holiday on kiddie island.

                    Lefties hate social safety net-gutting Bill Clinton. You must be referring to liberals, or Blue MAGAs.

                    And yeah, I agree that Bill Clinton and Trump are both rapists.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 13, @05:11AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 13, @05:11AM (#1144758)

                      See, "lefty" is a relative position, in opposition to the side of "righty".
                      "Liberal" means advocating freedom and justice for all. I don't think liberal applies to any current party, with the possible exception of the Libertarians.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:05AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:05AM (#1143819)

                hahahahahha

                one little poke at your "god emperor" and you lose your shit

                thankfully stupid is not contagious, but maybe you nazi eugenecists have something right, sterilize the incels!

        • (Score: 2) by anotherblackhat on Wednesday June 09, @10:09PM (5 children)

          by anotherblackhat (4722) on Wednesday June 09, @10:09PM (#1143725)

          Money laundering.

          That's assuming the conclusion. Essentially claiming it's bad to allow anonymous cash transactions because that would allow for anonymous cash transactions.

          You're damn right I want to make those harder to do anonymously

          I presume you want to make those things harder to do non-anonymously too. I.e. what does being anonymous have to do with it?

          Your desire to make those things harder doesn't give you the right to monitor all transactions.
          The problem is, anyone who has the power to stop murder-for-hire transactions also has the power to stop donations to unpopular political parties.
          Historically, anyone with that much power has been corrupt -- maybe they didn't start that way, but they sure as hell ended up that way.

          The ends aren't sufficient justification for the means.
          Do you think the only way to prevent human trafficking is to monitor all transactions?
          That we should just roll over and accept this level of intrusion because "child porn" or "terrorists"?

          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday June 10, @03:01AM (4 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Thursday June 10, @03:01AM (#1143786)

            Money laundering is the process by which "dirty" (i.e. criminally obtained) money becomes "clean" (i.e. legitimate-business) money. This is a problem, because it makes it easier for organized crime such as international drug cartels and the various mafias to operate and easily spend their profits.

            And the reason I want them harder to do anonymously is that anonymity is one of the means by which people who are committing these crimes avoid getting caught.

            And your idea that the government monitors all transactions is simply false: Banks monitor the transactions involving their own institution so that they can avoid being accessories to these sorts of crimes. Governments only get a look if they have reason to believe something illegal is going on.

            But you've made your position quite clear: You don't care about any of that, so long as you can get your hookers and blow.

            --
            The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @04:07AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @04:07AM (#1143800)

              What do you have against hookers and blow? Independent enterprise is offensive to you or something? Unmarried women should stay indoors and keep their legs shut, amirite?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:34AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:34AM (#1143825)

                Oh, dear, my dear AC. Not saying that prostitution is a completely immoral enterprise, but how much would it take for your to fuck Matt Gaetz? That cannot be consensual by any stretch of the imagination, so it is a case of coercion, involuntary servitude under duress, much like your own sex life.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:16AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @06:16AM (#1143821)

              "But you've made your position quite clear: You don't care about any of that"

              That seems excessive. Some amount of anonymity is important for society. Living with a camera following you around 24/7 that streams to some watcher should be a simple mental exercise to understand the point. Even when doing nothing wrong it adds a layer of mental anxiety that is unhealthy for society. There are better alternatives than mass surveillance, but they cost a lot more.

            • (Score: 2) by anotherblackhat on Thursday June 10, @05:36PM

              by anotherblackhat (4722) on Thursday June 10, @05:36PM (#1143968)

              …You don't care about any of that.

              Pot, kettle, black.
              I could just as easily say you don't care about privacy.

              I do care about crime, I just don't think that making it impossible for everyone to spend cash anonymously is the appropriate response to criminals being able to do so.

              Making it easier for law enforcement to enforce the law isn't enough of a reason to do something.
              We don't mine houses so law enforcement can blow them up if they think it's necessary, and we wouldn't mine them, even if the law pinky swore not to blow them up without a court order.
              That kind of power is simply too ripe for abuse.
              Likewise, we wouldn't say a door that can't be opened with human-level force is illegal to make, even though kicking down a door is a standard police tactic.

              The power to track spending is huge.
              We only have a limited ability to do it now, and we've already seen gross abuse of that power happen.
              (Even in places with laws in place to prevent that exact sort of abuse in place.)
              Sure, law enforcement could do a better job of catching criminals if they had that power, but that's not enough of reason to give it to them.
              We need protection from criminals, but we also need protection from "the authorities".
              That's why there are things like the fourth amendment.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @05:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @05:02AM (#1143812)

          So here's a partial list of stuff that falls under "some entity will attempt to regulate or prevent your transactions":

          Um, can you point me to, say, a web site where one might be able to obtain some of those particular things? Asking for a friend. Yeah, that's it, a friend. For "research". Yeah, yeah, that's it, research.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Fnord666 on Wednesday June 09, @07:11PM (1 child)

      by Fnord666 (652) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @07:11PM (#1143645) Homepage

      Other than some novelty, and being able to buy a pizza with a digital currency, what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have. Please list some. Thank you.

      I can see that some people might want to anonymously transfer money to avoid it being taxed. But that is tax avoidance.

      I can see that some people want to anonymously transfer money for good and/or services that they don't want to talk about. Or that they don't want anyone to know they are purchasing. Generally something that is illegal. Drugs. Guns. Prostitution. Child exploitation photographs. Violence, Arson or Murder for hire.

      Are there any really good uses of anonymous currency? Something that promotes the life, health or betterment of anyone without harming anyone? (I'll take the position that drugs don't count because there is a reason they are illegal or prescription.)

      Online ecommerce is at the mercy of the credit card companies and a few other select companies such as PayPal. If those companies choose to not do business with merchants or other types of transaction acquirers, you as a consumer are out of luck. Want to donate to a cause or charity that Visa doesn't approve of? Too bad. Want to rent a VPS for personal use but don't necessarily want your name associated with it? Too bad. Want to sell goods or services online that Mastercard doesn't want to deal with? Too bad. Heck, maybe an online merchant is just tired of AmEx taking a 3% cut of every transaction! My point is that without usable crypto currencies there are a select few companies that can control what goods and services can or can't be sold online.

      "But they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them." - Morpheus

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:28PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:28PM (#1143702)

        Online ecommerce is at the mercy of the credit card companies and a few other select companies such as PayPal.

        I don't know. I can send money to another account in EU and it arrives there quickly. And there is no fee for that. No PayPal or whatever. Any account.

        https://www.valuepenguin.com/interchange-fees-na-vs-eu [valuepenguin.com]

        also that. But you can spend your life wasting money on a pyramid scheme.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bradley13 on Wednesday June 09, @07:18PM (1 child)

      by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 09, @07:18PM (#1143647) Homepage Journal

      I can see that some people want to anonymously transfer money for good and/or services that they don't want to talk about. Generally something that is illegal.

      Why do you think it has to be illegal? There are any number of products that someone might not want showing up on their credit card statement. Sex toys. Psychological therapy. Abortion counseling. Less serious stuff, like a birthday present, when your partner regularly sees all your financial stuff. For some of these, you might be able to pay cash. In other cases, it would be useful to have a (semi-)anonymous way to transfer funds.

      For that matter, simply reducing the dominance of fiat currencies. At present, the national banks have far too much political influence. Did you know that all Swift transactions are subject to interference from the US, even if both sender and receiver are outside the US? There was a famous example a few years ago of a Danish cigar shop paying for cigars from Cuba. The US stopped the transaction (and kept the money), because the US had an embargo on Cuba. A direct transfer, independent of national fiat currencies, would eliminate this kind of abuse of power.

      Of course, Bitcoin is not the solution. As the first cryptocurrency, it really should have been viewed as a prototype. In the meantime, there are other currencies out there that would be better at fulfilling these roles.

      --
      Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:14PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @08:14PM (#1143689)

        I remember that story. Do you have a link so I can archive it?

        Bigger problem of course was the fecklessness of his nation of citizenship. Like the neighborhood tough guy beating up the kid next door, and the kid's father being a complete pussy.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:32AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @02:32AM (#1143775)

      "I can see that some people might want to anonymously transfer money to avoid it being taxed. But that is tax avoidance."

      Tax avoidance is legal. You're even allowed to avoid sales taxes by not buying stuff. Totally legal.

      If anonymously transferring cash is legal, and results in avoided taxes, then that's legal (and even reasonable) however I think that what you intend to describe is tax evasion - which is illegal.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 10, @04:57AM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 10, @04:57AM (#1143811) Journal

      Other than some novelty, and being able to buy a pizza with a digital currency, what legitimate purposes do anonymous digital currencies have. Please list some. Thank you.

      I can see that some people might want to anonymously transfer money to avoid it being taxed. But that is tax avoidance.

      I see you already list one big one, tax avoidance. It's also great for places like Venezuela without a viable currency and/or oppressive controls on what you can purchase.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @07:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @07:16PM (#1144014)

      Drugs. Guns. Prostitution. Child exploitation photographs. Violence, Arson or Murder for hire.

      Guns don't belong with the others. All but guns are illegal, at least in the U.S. Guns can save lives. The others only destroy.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:52PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @04:52PM (#1143585)

    1) The feds can break non-quantum cryptography.

    2) The attackers are profoundly stupid and moved the funds into an exchange that responds to court orders, or directly into a wallet compromised by the feds.

    3) The feds WERE the attackers and staged this event to intimidate crypto users into using more conventional and easily controlled monetary systems.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:37PM (#1143632)

      #3 is probably not the case. There were real-world consequences for the attack. It made major headlines, and cost US citizens millions.

      Now it's not impossible that the US government would do a false-flag operation here. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident [wikipedia.org] shows that such things are not impossible... although in that case it seems like confusion and then intentional misrepresentation after the fact, rather than premeditated maliciousness.

      It would be quite the gutsy administrator who would sign off on this operation, especially for such a nebulous end-goal like "intimidate potential future attackers."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:39PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:39PM (#1143634)

      4) The funds moved into an account kept by a US-based entity like coinbase or whatever and the feds used their normal "we are seizing these assets" approach to get the private key of the account and put the 'thumbscrews' on that wallet-keeper.

      I think this one is the most probable.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Wednesday June 09, @06:05PM

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Wednesday June 09, @06:05PM (#1143611)

    Worthless stuff is worthless.

    Worthless film at 11. :P

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:16PM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @06:16PM (#1143617)

    Why is there so much hyperbole? Bitcoin dropped 8.6%. Okay. It's done it before, several times. That demonstrates once again how it is unstable and not a good currency or store of value... but also means it is not newsworthy.

    Likewise, is 8% a "bloodbath?" We see 10% and 25% discounts of goods all the time. Stocks in the US have "circuit breakers" which halt trading if they drop 7%, 13%, and 20%... which means it's uncommon but not a "bloodbath" rare.

    When I saw the title, I was expecting to see values dropped by 50%. So why the hyperbolic description? I can only assume clickbait, and the general trend for everything to be "MOAR EXTREME!" now-a-days.

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday June 09, @06:42PM (2 children)

      by isostatic (365) on Wednesday June 09, @06:42PM (#1143635) Journal

      Indeed, I don't follow crypto as I think it's completely worthless, but it seems that bitcoin today is up 10% and back at 36k. It had a dip yesterday to 30k which lasted a few hours. It's basically stuck at the level it was in January, 4 times higher than it was this time last year.

      " a level not seen since mid-May,"

      That was 3 weeks ago FCOL!

      Etherium - about where it was on Saturday, 11 times its value of last year

      Doge (literally built to be a worthless joke coin) - about the same level for the last 3 weeks, 135 times its value this time last year.

      UPS is down 5% today, that's far more concerning than the normal 10-20% volatility in crypto. Tesla down 10% in a month, Home Depot down 8%, Southern Copper down 10% in a month. Even the mighty Apple is down 4% on YTD. TAL education group has dropped 50% in about 3 months.

      Charitably, money media hasn't caught onto the idea of volatility yet, and how reporting on crypto as if it were a share with fundamentals like earnings and profit is ridiculous.

      • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Wednesday June 09, @06:58PM

        by Dr Spin (5239) on Wednesday June 09, @06:58PM (#1143641)

        money media hasn't caught onto the idea of volatility yet

        You have little experience of the media reporting money matters:

        drop < 0.5% = collapse

        drop < 2% = total collapse

        drop < 4% = complete meltdown

        drop > 4% = freefall

        Some media put the descriptions in a different order, which matters little, since, as you have seen in this case,
        by the time they have typed it, the movement is typically in the opposite direction anyway.

        Moral: financial reporting is for entertainment only. Financial reports may go up or down (or round and round).
        It is very unwise to rely on publicly available financial data for making decisions - reling on insider trading is
        the only reliable plan to get rich.

        --
        Guns don't kill thousands, presidents kill thousands.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:26PM (#1143655)

        Crypto isn't regulated. Elon can manipulate it in plain sight, so can the media...

    • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday June 09, @07:01PM (1 child)

      by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday June 09, @07:01PM (#1143643)

      Plus, you know, digital. Where's the blood? Do those nice cryptomining graphics cards render it better or something?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:08PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @07:08PM (#1143644)

      An 8% drop is an excuse for everyone who has been wrong for the last decade about cryptocurrency and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future to take an uninformed victory lap.

      Oh no, my portfolio is only up >400% year over year. What a bloodbath!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @09:04PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @09:04PM (#1143712)

        Of course people buying on margin using leverage might be wiped out by a 8% drop.

  • (Score: 2) by istartedi on Wednesday June 09, @08:57PM (1 child)

    by istartedi (123) on Wednesday June 09, @08:57PM (#1143710) Journal

    Let me tell you about our Lord and Savior. Literally--El Salvador which is "The Savior" in Spanish. BTC has recovered a lot of (all?) that loss since El Salvador announced it will be a complementary currency, and that a 3 BTC investment will grant permanent residency.

    Either that, or I am the one who is late on some other story and I just need to refresh my browser. That's how it is with crypto.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @11:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, @11:11PM (#1143736)

      3 BTC gets you permanent residency, 30 BTC gets you an exit visa.

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