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posted by martyb on Thursday June 10, @07:35AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the [bit]coin-of-the-realm? dept.

Bitcoin now legal tender in El Salvador, first nation to adopt cryptocurrency:

On Wednesday, El Salvador’s president signed into law a proposal to adopt bitcoin as legal tender, making the Central American nation the first in the world to officially use the cryptocurrency.

The new law says that companies must accept bitcoin as a form of payment, and the government will allow people to pay taxes with it as well. The exchange rate with the dollar will be set by the market, and exchanges from dollars to bitcoin won’t be subject to capital gains tax. The law was passed by a supermajority vote of the legislature, with 62 of 84 deputies assenting.


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:05AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:05AM (#1143829)

    idiots.
    credit cards are cheaper, faster and safer than bitcoin.
    safer because they are backed up by larger international communities and legal frameworks.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:40AM (#1143835)

      This is true if you are a mostly normal person.

      It is absolutely wrong if you are interested in moving large amounts of shady (a.k.a. criminal) money.

      Do you really think that El Salvador, of all nations, makes laws to benefit normal people??

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 11, @07:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 11, @07:16PM (#1144353)

      lmao! what a stupid fag. go suck a jew banker, you dumb bitch.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday June 10, @08:06AM (10 children)

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Thursday June 10, @08:06AM (#1143830)

    This will be rescinded by the current government or there will be a revolution or coupe in El Salvador within the next 6-9 months and then it will be rescinded by the new government..

    The banks hates currencies they don't control.

    biased and some climas can be argued but has some interesting information about banks [youtube.com]

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by crafoo on Thursday June 10, @10:50AM (1 child)

      by crafoo (6639) on Thursday June 10, @10:50AM (#1143844)

      Yeah. The "international bankers" are going to come down on this hard and punish those responsible. Probably through some proxy state action.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 10, @11:46AM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 10, @11:46AM (#1143850) Journal
      The vast majority of banks by assets controlled don't control any currency. And perhaps this will help us get past the myth that countries will get invaded for not using the petrodollar.
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:57PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:57PM (#1143864)

        Get past the myth of bankers (Jews) being behind the invasions at least. Banks and monetary policy are just another tool, they can be used to make war as well as peace. The petrodollar stuff is just another political delineation, a financial signal of alignment.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday June 10, @04:43PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday June 10, @04:43PM (#1143935) Homepage Journal

        The vast majority of banks by assets controlled don't control any currency.

        I could not parse that sentence, could you reword it?

        --
        Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by TheRaven on Thursday June 10, @12:09PM (1 child)

      by TheRaven (270) on Thursday June 10, @12:09PM (#1143852) Journal

      I doubt the banks need to do anything. At present, the BitCon network can handle about five transactions per second and the way that the system is designed means that the computational cost of transactions increases over time. Five transactions per second *might* be enough for El Salvador, especially if it's a publicity stunt and hardly anyone actually bothers. If it gets any kind of traction then people are going to complain that it doesn't work when they try to use it.

      That's ignoring the fact that the volatility of the exchange rate means that any merchant who accepts BitCon will want to put the BitCon price at about double the fiat-currency price to avoid making a loss. If the law doesn't allow this then as soon as businesses start suffering from accidentally selling things at below cost because the value of the 'money' that was spent dropped significantly between the sale and conversion then you'll see mass protests from shopkeepers.

      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:16PM (#1143856)

        These problems have already been solved, do a bit of research into this story. Look up strike. The level of dunning kruger in this thread is stunning.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Cyrix6x86 on Thursday June 10, @12:52PM (2 children)

      by Cyrix6x86 (13569) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 10, @12:52PM (#1143862)

      A government that makes a sudden crypto or e-currency move like this, is a government that was already on the ropes. This is a way for the regime to funnel money (typically stolen from taxpayers) into their nest eggs before they leave, or are forced out.

      It is likely the authoritarian government is setting up golden parachutes so they can make their escape to small chateaus in Western Europe. This law makes it possible to move millions without a conversion rate or capital gains taxes. Those stipulations make it fairly obvious to see who it will benefit and protect. Wealthy people who have no intention of staying.

      This isn't the first time that a corrupt government has set up a crypto or r-currency for the purpose of escaping the hell hole they created. It is just the first time that Bitcoin was chosen as that method of laundering. Lessons learned from the last time it happened (Ecuador 2017), when the outgoing President set up his own crypto currency and then millions were stolen from the wallet overnight by savvy hackers. It's newsworthy in that it's Bitcoin being used this time, and more people are paying attention because they are still riding the bubble, but the end result will be the same. There is nothing revolutionary happening here. The only revolution will come when the people of El Salvador overthrow the current regime.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:58PM (#1143865)

        Careful, someone will mod you troll.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 10, @04:16PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 10, @04:16PM (#1143919)

        A government that makes a sudden crypto or e-currency move like this, is a government that was already on the ropes.

        Like the city of Miami?

        They say BTC gains won't be taxed as capital gains, I guess that also means that BTC losses will not be deductable?

        --
        My karma ran over your dogma.
  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:27AM (#1143832)

    The new law says that companies must accept bitcoin as a form of payment

    I think maybe some politicians in El Salvador got some 'donations'. But they are known for passing laws that make sense for the nation, making it ever more shithole in the process. And then you wonder why people are fleeing that cesspool?

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/14/the-abortion-cases-that-could-force-el-salvador-to-loosen-its-ban [aljazeera.com]
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24532694 [bbc.com]

    Earlier this year, the plight of lupus sufferer Beatriz, 22, attracted international condemnation after the Supreme Court refused to authorise an abortion, even though her life was at risk and the foetus too deformed to be viable.
    Beatriz's health deteriorated while the court deliberated for several months. She gave birth at 27 weeks. The baby died within hours.

    But fuck that, they have bitcoins. Those politicians should be put up against a wall. Literally. They deserve it.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:36AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @08:36AM (#1143834)

    Yes, I really do believe that they thought this through. "They" as in "people with power" which does not neccessarily coincide with "people forming the government".

    While bitcoin is not really anonymous (as we know here), it's still a lot cheaper, safer, more resilient(!) and convenient than moving your money through the banking system.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Thursday June 10, @08:56AM (11 children)

    by maxwell demon (1608) on Thursday June 10, @08:56AM (#1143836) Journal

    Given that it is now a legal tender in a country, does that affect how other countries have to treat it? For example, is it allowed (e.g. by international treaties) for one country to forbid use of the legal tender of another country? Do they have to allow trading it at the official currency trading markets? Are they now subject to any regulations they weren't subject to before?

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @09:21AM (8 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @09:21AM (#1143839)

      No. Yes. No. No.

      Which means that everything is just like before, except for banks, businesses (and presumably people?) in El Salvador. Well duh, it's a Salvadorean law, go figure.

      I'd really like to know the "official" and the "real" reasons for this move ...

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by crafoo on Thursday June 10, @10:54AM (7 children)

        by crafoo (6639) on Thursday June 10, @10:54AM (#1143845)

        Everyone knows USD double digit inflation is coming. USD as the de-facto international currency is a real, open question for the first time in decades.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 10, @04:21PM (6 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 10, @04:21PM (#1143921)

          Everyone knows USD double digit inflation is coming.

          Depending on your time-frame, USD double digit inflation has already happened. According to this graph [quickchart.io], from this site, you only need to go back 5 years (from 2021 to 2016) to see a 10% inflation in buying power. More interesting to me is the relatively linear nature of inflation since the first oil crisis - roughly 1972.

          --
          My karma ran over your dogma.
          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 10, @04:24PM (4 children)

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 10, @04:24PM (#1143922)

            Links above are FUBAR, here at least is a naked link to the site:

            https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1800?amount=1#:~:text=Value%20of%20%241%20from%201800,cumulative%20price%20increase%20of%202%2C019.48%25.

            The graph I'm referring to is the green one. Interesting note: on the 1800-present scale, as "bad" as US inflation appears, UK inflation is 4x worse.

            --
            My karma ran over your dogma.
            • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday June 11, @06:29AM (3 children)

              by maxwell demon (1608) on Friday June 11, @06:29AM (#1144191) Journal

              You still quoted far too much. Here's the clean link:

              https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1800?amount=1 [officialdata.org]

              --
              The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
              • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 11, @12:15PM (2 children)

                by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday June 11, @12:15PM (#1144225)

                Thanks, and if you change the start date to 1972 you can see the linear trend I was referring to pretty clearly:

                https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1972?amount=1 [officialdata.org]

                A suspicious mind would think that the trend is intentional.

                --
                My karma ran over your dogma.
                • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday June 12, @12:17AM (1 child)

                  by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday June 12, @12:17AM (#1144419) Journal

                  No need to be suspicious, you can just read their official policy: [federalreserve.gov]

                  The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) judges that inflation of 2 percent over the longer run, as measured by the annual change in the price index for personal consumption expenditures, is most consistent with the Federal Reserve’s mandate for maximum employment and price stability.

                  So yes, this trend is absolutely intentional.

                  --
                  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
                  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 12, @03:55AM

                    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday June 12, @03:55AM (#1144485)

                    They're manipulating our money, and have been ever since they took the silver out of coins... say it isn't so!!!

                    Also, spoiler alert for every worker drone who gets 2% annual raises and less than 2% interest in your savings accounts... you can do the math, can't you?

                    --
                    My karma ran over your dogma.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 11, @05:58PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 11, @05:58PM (#1144318)

            Well if you pick suitable dates/time frames you'd see some cryptocurrencies having a high inflation rates too... Maybe even higher than double digit. LOL.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @09:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @09:21AM (#1143840)

      I doubt it. This is purely for the internal market and to attract some "bitcoin enthousiasts". Anything abroad it's USD that's used (which is also still a valid currency within the country).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:54PM (#1143863)

      No. Yes. No. No.

      It affects El Salvador and entities doing business there. El Salvadorian law doesn't reach outside of the country otherwise.

      Like, if I have some British Pounds, there is nothing forcing anyone in Germany to accept it. Even banks can refuse it and they often do (try depositing some coins). Official currency doesn't mean it's traded on currency markets.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:12PM (#1143853)

    Quite a lovely country, if they could just find a way to get rid of the El Salvadorans.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:12PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @12:12PM (#1143854)

    Bitcoin still has a long way to go up.

    One day you'll be buying bitcoin for 100x the current price from people who took the time to understand what is going on.# If not you directly, your government will be taxing you to do it.

    # It is a net capturing the cantillon effect money.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:34PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:34PM (#1143907)

      bitcoin botherer can't imagine that someone able to understand the math could also understand the inherent scam of the system behind it

      • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @03:45PM (#1143912)

        The scam is printing currency and giving 90% of it to rich people/companies.

        Btc just siphons off some of that to whoever is informed enough to take advantage.

  • (Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday June 10, @12:13PM (2 children)

    by looorg (578) on Thursday June 10, @12:13PM (#1143855)

    I don't think this will turn El Salvador into some bitcoin paradise, I doubt anyone from the western world would be willing to move down there and build their bitcoin mansion. But who knows perhaps some of those bitcoin super-evangelists will put their digital wallet to the test. But I very much doubt it.

    I wonder if some drug cartel made a sizeable donation or two or however many it takes. Must make it a lot easier to wallet your drug money home if the currency of choice has been made the legal tender of the nation. Now they can hide it among all the remittances from normal people. Cause overall from the article this seems to be more about making it easier for El Salvadorians abroad to send money home to the people that are still stuck there, it's a basic source of income for a lot of countries in their situation. This way they are trying to cut all the fees etc that comes from international banking or money transfers ala Western Union etc. Still considering how volatile the bitcoin market appears to be I'm not sure this is what I would like to use if sending home money to parents and siblings -- it's almost like gambling, you could be sending enough, or enough could turn into a pittance or a megajackpot win. You never know. This could happen with normally currency to but perhaps somewhat less so and often.

    I guess a lot of El Salvadorians are about to be bitcoin scammed.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @01:44PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 10, @01:44PM (#1143879)

      How does one shutdown a mixer if it is also a whole country?

      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday June 12, @12:24AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday June 12, @12:24AM (#1144423) Journal

        By installing a new government there. Would not be the first time for the US to do such a thing.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
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