Monkey-Human hybrids are real (at least as short-lived embryos). While interesting to see what would have become of it, this is also quite scary. Not quite sure this is the direction I want science to go in.
First Monkey–Human Embryos Reignite Debate Over Hybrid Animals[1]:
Scientists have successfully grown monkey embryos containing human cells for the first time — the latest milestone in a rapidly advancing field that has drawn ethical questions.
In the work, published on 15 April in Cell, the team injected monkey embryos with human stem cells and watched them develop. They observed human and monkey cells divide and grow together in a dish, with at least 3 embryos surviving to 19 days after fertilization. “The overall message is that every embryo contained human cells that proliferate and differentiate to a different extent,” says Juan Carlos Izpisua Belmonte, a developmental biologist at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, and one of the researchers who led the work.
Researchers hope that some human–animal hybrids — known as chimaeras — could provide better models in which to test drugs, and be used to grow human organs for transplants. Members of this research team were the first to show in 2019 that they could grow monkey embryos in a dish for up to 20 days after fertilization. In 2017, they reported a series of other hybrids: pig embryos grown with human cells, cow embryos grown with human cells, and rat embryos grown with mouse cells.
[...] But the latest work has divided developmental biologists. Some question the need for such experiments using closely related primates — these animals are not likely to be used as model animals in the way that mice and rodents are. Non-human primates are protected by stricter research ethics rules than are rodents, and they worry such work is likely to stoke public opposition.
“There are much more sensible experiments in this area of chimaeras as a source of organs and tissues,” says Alfonso Martinez Arias, a developmental biologist at Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, Spain. Experiments with livestock animals, such as pigs and cows, are “more promising and do not risk challenging ethical boundaries”, he says. “There is a whole field of organoids, which can hopefully do away with animal research.”
Journal Reference:
Nidhi Subbaraman. First monkey–human embryos reignite debate over hybrid animals, (DOI: 10.1038/d41586-021-01001-2)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by crafoo on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:00AM (6 children)
"Researchers hope that some human–animal hybrids — known as chimaeras — could provide better models in which to test drugs, and be used to grow human organs for transplants."
Well I'm glad I'm not a monkey or a hybrid.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:10AM (1 child)
I'm about to start aquaculture at home, and I too glad that I am not a Nile tilapia raised in a crowded container as food. Where is the line? Calamari comes from a nearly alien species, but giant squid and octopus demonstrate high intelligence in many ways. Do we have to be able to have a conversation with an animal before they are off the menu? Is it the animals' fault that we are incapable of conversation with them?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:28AM
Squid show no compunction towards devouring other animals or even their own kind. Fuck 'em! Get on my plate, you rubbery little guy.
(Score: 3, Touché) by driverless on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:31PM (2 children)
Human-monkey hybrids have been around for quite some time. You ever been to Florida?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @04:11PM (1 child)
Don't be racist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @07:04PM
So geography is racist now? Oh me oh my, what will conservatives think of next?
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Thursday June 17 2021, @04:40PM
One question, at least regarding the latter is: how do you know you aren't?
There are plenty of human-human chimeras (not "chimaeras", as in TFS, which are actually fish), they occur naturally, and mosaics (which are slightly different - split cell line vs. merged cell lines). We don't in fact know how many there are because full testing is complex and usually only happens when other tests show up weird results that can't be explained. Most of the people who are will never know it.
And that's before we get onto the chimeras we create, and have been creating for decades (since 60s I think at least), with xenografts.
Would I be glad to be a hybrid? - depends on the choice really, if it's pig-heart-valve vs. being dead...
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:02AM (12 children)
I believe most people who need an organ transplant would accept one grown in an animal donor.
Anybody here willing to die rather than continue a good quality of life with a heart grown in a donor farm? I have certainly eaten my weight in farm raised meat several times over by now.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @12:57PM (1 child)
horse penis is on order.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @02:58PM
Why would I want to downgrade?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday June 17 2021, @02:22PM (7 children)
I'm not sure that is ethically the same. Naturally if you need something you need it and a lot of people would do almost anything to get it. That is not the same thing as it being right or it should be done.
While not entirely the same this is already a thing, and there is serious experimentation on it. But they are not creating Pig-Men to harvest them. They are still pigs. Some organs can be replaced by machine, not all can (yet). We are not at sci-fi levels of grown organs and biotech yet. As far as I know there is as an example no implantable kidney machine yet, if you need a kidney you will require a kidney (which can come from animals, but humans are preferred) but until that time you are stuck in dialysis, which is a lot more horrific then most people imagine. Hours on end, multiple times per week until you either die or get a new organ that matches and sticks. There is no stopping or substitute.
Not to mention that if we just got our collective shit together there should be enough human organs from humans to cover us but for various reasons a lot of organs are just wasted, or never harvested for one reason or another. A simple change as having opt-out instead of require opt-in for organ donation would be a massive step in the right direction. If you don't want to donate blood and organs to others then quite frankly you deserve neither back or should be put at the end of the waiting list. You'll get the spare once when we have it or them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:02PM
China has no problem getting organs. The government opts you in if you cross them. I'll take that WELL-EXERCISED pair of lungs from that Falun Gong guy, please! They are a STEAL!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:05PM
You are not entitled to my body. Likewise, I am not entitled to yours.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:22PM (1 child)
10+ years ago, a company that reprocesses bovine tissue for transplantation in ligaments and other orthopedic applications ramped up production and is still going strong today. They also process human cadavers as a tissue source, as you say: they tend to work better, but the cow tissue can work too, and GM cows would no doubt work better than normal cows.
What is "sci-fi levels"? They are already doing limited animal organ transplants - as you say: kidneys and other - and I don't think I'd ever prefer a machine kidney over a functional grown one - regardless of the source.
Thus, and always: the human condition. Natural ecosystems are even more chaotic, application of intelligence could solve many unfortunate situations, but that's not how the real world works.
Opt-out is a good idea, but I am more than slightly paranoid that an "organ donor: yes" on my drivers' license is a counter-incentive to effectively treat me in certain massive trauma scenarios. Dramatically improve transparency in medical practice, politics and finance and I'll voluntarily opt-in. With the opacity of today's world I'll remain paranoid, thank you, and sign over my organs while I am of sound mind but not body, if that ever becomes my reality.
Back to the poor suffering animals being raised as organ donors... obviously this story shows how that can be taken too far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Let_Me_Go_(2010_film) [wikipedia.org] but, if it's o.k. to raise pigs for bacon, is it any different if they happen to donate kidneys on their way to the butchers?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday June 17 2021, @04:24PM
I would consider "sci-fi", I guess what is sci-fi is one of those things that just constantly moves -- sort of like what we do was sci-fi a few decades ago, levels as you walk (or get brought) into the hospital, bring up your bio-profile / genome on the machine and hit print for a new kidney and a few minutes later you have a new kidney perfectly matched to you ready to be inserted. Or some injected of nano-bots get injected and they just create or fix what is already there.
I donate blood and so far they have not drained me to death, nor have any vampires come around asking for seconds. They can have my organs when I am gone and don't need them anymore. So far they have not killed me to jump the queue but they should have had ample opportunities I gather if they really wanted or needed some. Perhaps I'm just not a match for the mega-rich bastards in need. That said I live in an opt-in country. I know enough healthcare professionals to be fairly certain they always do their best to save all life and they wouldn't start to murder people left and right for some organs. Perhaps I wouldn't be so sure in some other countries but then I don't live there. I guess one can never rule out that single angel of death type individual but I figure those are quite rare.
In some regard I don't think it matters. The "poor animals" are already food so we might as well harvest them all to minimize the waste. As far as I know, having talked to a few scientists in the field, now the main reason we don't harvest more from them for transplant are a matter of logistics and cleaning. You can't grow pigs normally if you want surgical level organs. As in you can't pump the pigs full of antibiotics and growth hormones to make them grow big and fat etc. So it would require a separate line of breeding. But it's one of those things that doesn't really make sense, it's ok (if you are not a militant vegan) to harvest piggy for all the bacon and pork in the world but it's a bit of an outrage if we also take its kidneys and not turn them into pate.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:26AM (2 children)
Or we could "not get our collective shit together" and get better organs from pigs or whatever. Once again, a moral dilemma can be solved by technology making the dilemma go away.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:39AM (1 child)
I'm a big believer in that technology will change, and/or fix, most of our current problems, from medical to environmental and beyond. In this case tho we are not quite there just yet. So we kind of need to fill the gap with something and what we are currently doing is a massive waste of resources and options. It would probably be the easiest fix for the issue.
One of the issues with the pig replacements is that as it is now the pigs are either food or medical supplies. They won't be both. Simply due to food pigs get fed, injections and are raised in an environment that is not suited for medical pigs. Medical pigs are raised and injected with things that might not make them suitable to become pork chops and bacon. So we better ramp up the pig production then. Or we could stop wasting human organs. Perhaps even both.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 21 2021, @05:45AM
Are we to suppose that would be hard compared to say modern health care systems?
(Score: 2) by srobert on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:05PM (1 child)
"I believe most people who need an organ transplant would accept one grown in an animal donor."
I believe most people who need an organ transplant would accept one grown in a human whom they had paid to have whacked.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:26PM
I know those people exist, I like to think that "most" people would choose not to cut short another's life to extend their own - it's a comforting thought, regardless of how true it is or isn't.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:26AM (2 children)
The monkey-human animals would make very cute pets. I can see them on Instagram alongside their yoga pants wearing influencer owners.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:39AM (1 child)
Skip it and go straight to yoga pants wearing influencer monkey-human animals?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @12:01PM
If a large chunk of the population find this creature "hot", it could work.
However, red, swollen, estrous baboon ass might be too much even for an ass man like me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @12:38PM
From the late show a couple of days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtTvXZ5lby8 [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Thursday June 17 2021, @12:45PM
Or is it the other way round?
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @01:13PM (2 children)
Garbage reporting from Nature of all places.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday June 17 2021, @01:52PM
Wiktionary [wiktionary.org] would disagree with you, or at least extend your view on what is included and what isn't:
chimera (plural chimeras)
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:38PM
A good point, but you should explain the distinction:
Chimera: a mixture of cells with different genomes.
Hybrid: A mixture of cells with essentially identical genomes, but where the genomes are pastiches from different sources.
Note that this is the way hybrid is used in agriculture, and has been for a very long time. Chimera is a newer term in this use, and has only been used that way for a few decades.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @01:37PM
It's already planet of the apes...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @02:57PM (1 child)
Damn you, damn you all.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday June 17 2021, @10:39PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:33PM
Because his existence sure challenges some ethical boundaries.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @03:42PM
Was disappointed -1
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @04:47PM
They grow up to be cops.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 17 2021, @11:32PM
Planet of the Apes was a warning about blacks.
https://abatehate.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]