Johnson & Johnson vaccine linked to rare cases of autoimmune disorder:
The Food and Drug Administration announced a change to the fact sheet on Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine Monday, warning of an increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a neurological disorder that damages the nerves and can lead to paralysis.
"Based on an analysis of Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting (VAERS) data, there have been 100 preliminary reports following vaccination with the Janssen vaccine after approximately 12.5 million doses administered," an FDA spokesperson said in a statement to CNET. Ninety-five of the cases were serious and required hospitalization, with one reported death, according to the FDA.
The cases of Guillain-Barré usually occurred about two weeks after vaccination and were typically found in males aged 50 and older, according to a statement by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC said it will discuss the link between the US's only single-dose COVID vaccine and the autoimmune disorder at an upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. It also said that most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré syndrome.
The known benefits of Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine continue to outweigh the known risks, the FDA said. But those who got a Johnson & Johnson shot should seek medical attention if they develop the following symptoms, per the FDA: weakness or tingling sensations, especially in the legs or arms, that's worsening and spreading to other parts of the body; difficulty walking; difficulty with facial movements, including speaking, chewing or swallowing; double vision or inability to move eyes; or difficulty with bladder control or bowel function.
[...] Guillain-Barré can occur after infections with viruses such as the flu, Epstein Barr or Zika, the CDC reports. Guillain-Barré also occurs after infection with Campylobacter bacteria, which is the most common bacterial cause of diarrhea. It has also been been associated with other vaccines, such as those for the flu and shingles, according to the FDA. Although most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré syndrome, it can lead to severe nerve damage and paralysis. It's also most common in men and people over age 50.
Also at CNN.
Wikipedia entry on Guillain-Barré.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:46AM (25 children)
Meanwhile GBS is one of the risks of a live case of COVID-19, along with the part where you die on a ventilator.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20362793 [mayoclinic.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:39AM
So it's not lupus?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @05:17AM (16 children)
You trying to "shill" for the vaccines at every opportunity is getting kind of weird. This is serious stuff. Among all the other confirmed major side effects (blood clots, heart disorders, etc) we're now also looking at 1 in 120k developing autoimmune disease. The odds of developing serious medical conditions following vaccination are rapidly increasing, and are likely to only further increase.
I found the paper linking this autoimmune disorder to COVID here [nih.gov]. In the 180 million people who have had COVID (undercount due to the fact COVID most frequently has no symptoms and thus no diagnosis) they found it in 220 people, a rate of 1.2 per million instead of the vaccine caused rate of 8.3 per million. But something even interesting here is also the fact that the paper does not seem to have considered the possibility that the autoimmune disorder may have been caused by the vaccines and not by COVID. And Captain Obvious would point out the fact that this is going to be, in part at least, because right now there is an immense amount of pressure on everybody involved in the "public" face of COVID (ranging from healthcare professionals to researchers) to not speak negatively of the vaccines.
Anybody who thinks the increasingly absurd VAERS [openvaers.com] reports (vaccine adverse effect reporting system - a US government reporting database for adverse effects) are all just random coincidences is becoming increasingly out of touch with reality. I put "shill" in quotes, because I have literally never once in my life accused somebody of being a shill, in a time where such claims are tossed about so casually. But I'm having increasing difficulty imagining somebody behaving in an organic fashion, regardless of their background of ideology, and coming to your endless defense of the these experimental vaccines.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:00AM
What's weird about it? Getting more people to take the vaccines when the vaccine is available would save a lot of lives.
Notice that the paper has a cutoff time of December 2020. Vaccination would not have been a significant factor by then.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by https on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:25PM (11 children)
This is "serious stuff", as opposed to the one in fifty chance of dying, or the one in five chance of developing permanent heart damage, from covid, and long term neurological shit that is still being figured out? I'd say fuck off and die, but you want to take us out alongside you. So just fuck off.
No, the vaccines are not without risk. But neither is covid, and I can do the math well enough to figure out what's better for me. And I can bet money on what's better for you. Because of assholes like yourself, I'm more likely to be exposed to the virus than not in my lifetime, and I'd like to be vaccinated then. Because I'd rather bet money than my life.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Socrastotle on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:16PM (9 children)
You need to consider the data when weighing risk, because COVID risks are extremely biased in various ways such as age. You can find the latest data available here [cdc.gov] under the "Sex and age" heading. To my knowledge the CDC is no longer publishing the average, but in various regional/state calculations it is frequently upwards of 80 years. Currently 16.5% [census.gov] of the US is over the age of 65, yet this age group makes up 79.4% of all COVID deaths. This is made even more notable by the fact that their overall exposure to COVID has probably been substantially less than the age groups below them. It was not (on average) the 65+ crowd going out in massive crowds to join protests last year. People under the age of 50 make up the vast majority of Americans (and a likely even further disproportionate rate of exposure to COVID), yet this age group only accounts for 4.7% of all COVID deaths.
Of course you might suggest that well 4.7% is still a lot of people. This is where we get into the other factor of risk for COVID - preexisting conditions. You can find those on the same page under the "Comorbidities and other conditions" section. Fortunately there they are maintaining averages, and so we can see that the *average* COVID mortality had 4 additional causes of death (besides COVID) on the death certificate. Some of those cormorbidities will likely have been caused or greatly exasperated by COVID, such as respiratory failure. But many of the causes of death were obviously not caused by COVID: diabetes, cancer (malignant neoplasm), heart disease, etc, etc. Where things get interesting is when you combine the tables. Unfortunately they inexplicably use different age ranges so we can't do this perfectly, but we can at least see general trends. So for instance if you look at the age group of 0-17 year olds there have been a total of 331 deaths where COVID was listed as a factor (and 49,407 deaths from all other causes). How about comorbidities? Of these 331 people who "died of COVID" up to 75 head cancer, 117 had diabetes, etc.
Your chances of having a poor outcome COVID depend heavily on your age and health. If you're young and healthy, your chances of dying from COVID are completely negligible. And this is on top of the fact that in the US last year, with rampant disregard for mitigation efforts and widespread group gatherings, less than 10% of Americans ended up infected. And so you also need to factor in the chance of not getting the virus into the risk calculation here. For instance let's say you had a 10% chance of a negative effect from a vaccine, and a 20% chance of a negative effect from a virus. It seems obvious that the vaccine is less harmful than the virus. But if you only stand a 10% chance of catching the virus then suddenly the weighting is a 10% chance of a negative effect from a vaccine versus a 2% chance of a negative effect from a virus after that weighting is considered.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:22PM (4 children)
TL/DR:
- Vaccines make perfect sense if you're old and ill.
- Vaccines make 0 sense if you're young and healthy.
The important question is where people who tend to fall between the two extremes meet. And, in my opinion, that should be a personal decision. As Israel has now become a great example of, this virus isn't going to go away just with mass vaccination. And if you do choose to get a vaccination it will likely entail multiple more booster shots over the next year or two before this virus becomes endemic and fades but never really disappears. Each shot further increasing the risk of facing one of the ever mounting number of side effects.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:12PM (3 children)
I just posted another response to GP that talks about actual incidence of side effects from COVID vs. from the vaccine. In most types of side effects, the incidence from COVID is orders of magnitude higher than from the vaccine, so that's a risk you need to consider, even if you're "young and healthy."
Also, one needs to consider what sort of gamble you're taking by delaying vaccination, in terms of effects on the population and future COVID risks. COVID already has a lot of nasty side effects beyond death. The more it is in circulation, the greater the risk of mutations that lead to more problems, worse side effects, and perhaps greater ability to punch through protection from the vaccine and infect more people. (Thus enhancing the aforementioned bad effects.)
Viruses are a moving target. Without herd immunity and with large outbreaks continuing to happen, we run increased risk of worse strains developing, including ones that the vaccines may not be able to guard against. Which puts everyone at greater risk.
So, as a young healthy person, you can take the risk of getting COVID and potentially getting some nasty side effects, while contributing to the potential future evolution of the virus that will make it even more likely you'll be infected in the future and perhaps have even worse effects... or you can get the vaccine, take some much lower risks, likely avoid most of potential nasty side effects of COVID itself, and help stop the spread and evolution.
I'm NOT saying everyone should blindly just get the vaccine. But portraying it as though there's "zero sense" in a young person getting it is disingenuous at best -- there are broader implications to young people not being vaccinated, both personally and for society at large.
(Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:13PM (2 children)
I believe Israel has demonstrated that herd immunity is not really viable. Israel had remarkable success with a coercive vaccination campaign and managed to vaccinate more than 80% of their adult population. And for some time it seemed to be paying dividends. They brought their *total* caseload down to below 200 with new cases trending towards zero. Then? One guy brought in a variant (this is rhetorical, but perhaps not - all it takes is one individual), and now they have active cases in the thousands, and just hit 1,198 new cases in one day. Scaled to America's population (for comparison/context), that would be 42,776 new cases. Big Pharma is cooking up another shot though, ready to market with the utmost urgency. I will make the bold prediction that this will not be the last time this cycle repeats.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @09:54PM (1 child)
You're overlooking the fact that vaccination is only one part of the solution while simultaneously pointing out that it's an incomplete solution. SMH.
Compare with the handling of industrial safety - how you protect workers from hazards on job sites The most effective thing to do is to eliminate a hazard from a worksite. If it or something like it absolutely has to be there, it is often possible to substitute something less hazardous. Less effective are engineering controls, namely changing industrial processes to isolate workers from the hazard. If that can't be done, you apply administrative controls, eg. "do not cross yellow line". Least effective is personal protective equipment.
Higher on the list is generally harder to do but also generally more effective in ensuring worker safety. Hardhats are fine, but better is telling the steelworkers to put a tarp under the doodad they are riveting, best is assembling the damn thing on the ground and figure out how to not break it when the crane lifts it up.
Travel restrictions, lockdowns, vaccination induced herd immunity, ventilation controls, and masking have analogues in industrial safety design. I leave it as an excercise for the reader to determine their relative ordering. No analogy is perfect.
Herd immunity is absolutely viable, if you understand that it is only a part of the solution. Without it, and other protective measures you've just got mass infection.
(Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Wednesday July 14 2021, @01:33PM
When a population reaches herd immunity against a disease the idea is that that population becomes effectively immune as a whole, even if some subset ends up infected it will be unable to effectively spread. We do not need to engage in "other protective measures" to ward off polio, because we have achieved genuine herd immunity. Of course this only works when you have robust and effective vaccines. The efficacy against the latest strains, which are not even an immune escape incident and evolved from a non-immunized population, are quite poor.
And so in this sort of scenario herd immunity has no real meaning, and the both politicians and the media are overtly lying about this. They continue to suggest that once we achieve herd immunity, life can return to normal. But of course it won't, because, as you've acknowledged here - herd immunity, as it applies to COVID, no longer really has any meaning. A society with no protection and a society with herd immunity will, if they seek to prevent future outbreaks, be obligated to behave in pretty much the same way.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:00PM (3 children)
Indeed, you do. Your post might be an interesting comparison of death rates, but you do realize that death is not the only bad side effect of COVID, right?
If that were actually the gamble most people are dealing with, I'd probably agree with you. Unfortunately, in the case of COVID, for most serious side effects (even those that show up in young people), you're often talking about more of an order of magnitude different in risk from vaccine vs. COVID, and sometimes several orders of magnitude.
Just to take a couple that have hit the news in recent months (and were mentioned by GP in the rant about the "serious" situation):
1. Rare types of blood clots. These have been enough to derail vaccine rollout, despite being only a few per million risk. But the chances of these specific complications from COVID is likely to be 8 to 10 times higher [bmj.com] for the most common vaccines in the U.S.:
2. Even more recently, the concern about myocarditis has been raising concerns around the vaccines. The situation there is even worse news for those who actually contract COVID, even among your young age groups that you focus on. The incidence (of myocarditis and pericarditis) so far measured seems to be about 19.8 per million in people aged 30 or younger for Moderna, and about 8 per million for Pfizer. But the incidence in young people of these complications for COVID infections is somewhere between 100 and 1000 times higher [jamanetwork.com]. The study linked there showed an incidence of myocarditis of 23,000 per million in college athletes with COVID. (That's not a typo.) That study scanned people who had no other clinical symptoms that would indicate a heart issue, though -- but still, 0.31% (3,100 per million) actually displayed clinically significant symptoms that would have led to a myocarditis diagnosis even if not participating in the study. There have been other studies of myocarditis in young people -- as heart inflammation is a serious risk for people like college athletes -- and the average rate across studies seems at least 0.5%... again, vs. a rate of 0.0008% to 0.002% for the vaccine. So, roughly 250 to 500 times greater risk from COVID itself.
Now, most young and healthy people -- as you note -- will likely recover from some of these complications, at least immediately. But things like heart inflammation can cause permanent damage t the heart that may not show up as problematic immediately, but may make you more at risk of a heart attack or other complications years or decades down the line.
I know a very healthy and fit couple in the 40s who got COVID very early on during the pandemic, one ended up in the hospital, and now both have signs of permanent organ damage. I just found out a few weeks ago that a spouse of another friend not only lost his sense of taste from COVID, but when it came back, everything is wrong. His favorite foods now taste awful, and he's lost over 20 pounds in recent months (that he didn't need to lose) just because eating has become disgusting to him.
When you start looking into the stats, you start finding that a surprising number of people -- including many younger people -- have these serious side effects from COVID that may be permanent and create significant future risks or change quality of life.
So yeah, I agree with you that you should consider the data when evaluating the need for a vaccine. Just be sure to be comparing ALL of the data, including serious side effects. Not just death.
(Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Tuesday July 13 2021, @05:17PM (2 children)
Your #1 example fits the exact hypothetical I was offering. If you have 25 "units" chance for an event from the virus, but only 4 "units" chance for an event from the vaccine, then it seems reasonable to say you're more likely to get it from the virus than the vaccine. But you need to factor in the chance of getting the virus. That is going to vary based upon your own personal behaviors, but the one datum we have is that about 10% of America has been diagnosed* with COVID.
So if we assume your personal behaviors are about average for America, then we'll say you have a 10% chance of infection. So your weighted chance (in "units") of the event happening from the virus becomes 25 * 0.1 = 2.5 while it remains 4 for the vaccine. In other words, an unvaccinated individual is less likely to suffer said effect than a vaccinated individual. And when we're speaking of vaccines, this should not be even close which brings us to your second point.
And as for your second point, sample size is critical. It was based on a sample of 1,597 individuals and has a confidence interval that goes all the way down to 0% (as well as up to extremely high levels). That is complete and utter noise. I am almost certain that this paper would never have been published if it was using similar evidence to suggest a problem with the vaccines.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14 2021, @12:35AM (1 child)
I love how you tacitly and conveniently pick the lowest number from the confidence interval to try to make your point. The ratio is more likely to be around 8-10, not 4. You need to take into account the range for the CI of the vaccine too... and yes, that creates a wider potential range of potential risk ratios, but don't be a jerk and silently manipulate the numbers to your favor.
If you actually use the more likely estimate for the ratio, your argument doesn't actually work. You'd need to play with your own made-up numerical scenario and "for instance" nonsense to make the numbers work out.
Wow. You just made an argument just literally made up out of BS numbers you pulled out of your ass about likely chances of getting the virus in the long-term, but now you're critiquing a published study with 1600 participants and 37 actual cases of COVID coupled with heart inflammation?
I think you misread the study. The only place 0% seems to be mentioned is here: "Thirty-seven (including 27 men) were diagnosed with COVID-19 myocarditis (overall 2.3%; range per program, 0%-7.6%)" -- that 0% indicates some sports programs at some schools had a rate as low as 0%. It's not a confidence interval. It's just the range seen in programs at different schools, which also had vastly different experiences with COVID, so we'd expect some variation.
The confidence interval is stated elsewhere: "The prevalence of myocarditis per program ranged from 0% to 7.6% (overall, 2.3% [95% CI, 1.6%-3.2%]; model-based estimate, 2.1% [95% CI 1.1%-4.4%])"
Thus, again, a level a few orders of magnitude greater than such a side effect from the vaccine.
Well, if you actually understand what the paper says (or are you deliberately misrepresenting the paper and lying to try to argue your point?), the confidence interval shows likely evidence that COVID cases have a risk several orders of magnitude higher than the vaccine. Or are you suggesting that all of these cases (37 cases of myocarditis out of ~1600) among athletes with COVID are seriously just a coincidence?? The prevalence is a LOT greater than observed in random young people of that age who don't have a serious illness.
(Score: 2) by Socrastotle on Wednesday July 14 2021, @02:02PM
The point remains exactly the same with 39. It was the result of skimming your post. If you haven't realized yet, the audience for posts once we start to getting into actual numbers instead of sensationalism, emotionalism, and drama in general - approaches zero. We are mostly just talking to one another.
And as for the study, no I was not suggesting coincidence - I was suggesting p-hacking. It's a rather specifically selective sample where the outlier data was likely known ahead of time, with inexplicable variation even in your sample groups, seemingly zero effort to have a control group (such as testing a sample of non-COVID athletes from each sample, and that further inflated its figures by carrying out atypical operations. The paper acknowledges medical assessment based on symptoms alone would have resulted in a detection of only 0.31%. It was only inflated by carrying out a slew of tests, including cardiac MRIs on completely asymptomatic individuals. And you're now comparing that figure against the population at large, when needless to say a figure very close to 0% have undergone any sort of testing for myocarditis, let alone completely asymptomatic individuals having cardiac MRIs.
Put another way, imagine you test only people with red hair using a sophisticated detection method to determine whether or not they have somethingitis. And, lo and behold, you find far more cases of somethingitis among your sample than among the general population. Is this now because redheads genuinely have a higher rate of somethingitis, or is it because the general population has not been tested using your sophisticated somethingitis detection methods? This is where a control group comes in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:03PM
both the disease and the vaccine are made by the same people. it's about control and population control. dumb slaves funding it all.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Tork on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:53PM (2 children)
Is it? Cos a circus of idiotic performers are bouncing up and down behind you drowning you out with meme-fueled 'alternative science' about how vaccines work. Are you sure you're wagging your finger in the right direction?
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:48PM (1 child)
I do not derive my views by what other people think. I derive my views by what I personally find most compelling. And this is something that all people should strive for.
Society has never had issue for sake of two many people thinking for themselves. It is instead invariably when society does choose to adopt the views of some establishment or individual, and that establishment or individual directs society down a path it never would (or should) have tread on its own.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:53PM
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:14AM (5 children)
That's eight per million diagnosed and confirmed.
Meanwhile, my 69 year old neighbor who had COVID in November / December, the Phizer vaccine doses in March, was feeling "off" in late June, had a spasm out of his shoes while fishing on a dock alone in early July, wasn't breathing when he hit the water, and is not listed as a COVID related death.
Is the economic impact of quarantine responsible for the recent drop in US life expectancy? I don't think so.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:19PM (3 children)
How does anyone know "he had a spasm out of his shoes" if he died alone?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:48PM
Presumably his shoes were left on the dock.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:28PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:44PM
For whatever reason, he was wearing his shoes, then his shoes were sitting on the dock and he was in the water not breathing. I'd assume he had a cardio or pulmonary or both event. His wife was watching him from the house, saw him go in the water. Neighbors are fire fighters, they had him out of the water within a minute or two, did CPR, but he was already gone - reportedly no water in his lungs.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:03PM
Four months? Do you have any idea what can happen or what you can be exposed to in four months? Totally the vaccines fault and nothing else before or after. I got a raise two months after my vaccine. Should I be thanking BioNTech for that too?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:00PM
shut up, you dumb bitch ass whore! enjoy dying of your death jab, you stupid slave!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:53AM (5 children)
I sought out Good Ol' Murcan vaccine - Moderna and Pfizer (ok, with bit of sourkraut on this one).
Remember, stick with hamburger and weiswurst vaccines, don't stray to lomein or borshit vaccines.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:49AM (4 children)
Damn right, I mean, the Germans really had an edge in pharma research since WW2... dunno why. And there has never been anything bad coming out of this.
What? Thalidowhatnow?
Oh c'mon, nobody remembers that one.
(Score: 3, Funny) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:22PM (2 children)
Thalidomide was quite safe for anyone who wasn't pregnant. And there are a substantial fraction of the world's population who will never be pregnant.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:30PM (1 child)
It's also still on the WHO list of essential medicines for its utility in treating various skin conditions and cancers.
In addition, at the time it was developed it wasn't known that drugs could pass the placental barrier, which meant that at some point some drug was going to come along and show that it could. If it wasn't thalidomide it would have been something else, thalidomide just happened to be the first one along.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @07:08PM
That's consistent with what I know.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @01:59PM
Actually, everyone seems to remember that one. Unfortunately, it's much harder to remember the people who died because of a drug that didn't get approved.
Frankly, no vaccine that's passed phase 2 trials has ever had side effects near as deadly as COVID. If the bureaucracies were actually interested in saving lives rather than amassing power and covering asses they would have let people who wanted the mRNA vaccines start getting them last summer.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:15AM (17 children)
Experimental drugs and treatments linked to bad side effects! Who'da thunk it?
We should count ourselves fortunate that we aren't getting Sinovac. Less effective, and I've read a couple rumors the side effects are more frequent. Ehhhh . . .
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:39AM (5 children)
Thankfully we're doing the experiments now so the people who get the approved (or not) vaccines will know what long term side effects are present.
All of you who participated have my thanks, since I'll probably have to get it sooner or later. Worst case I'll have a few months advance notice when any long term side effects hit half the population. I hope it doesn't turn out as bad as the blue pill.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:11AM (1 child)
Hahahaha, good to see another Jew's mask slipping, finally an honest user posting under username. They're probably stopping the mass-killing/crippling vaccine program early because too many Jewish Boksheviks and not enough rednecks and minorities were gettin' it.
In other words, the Jews tried to Jew and only Jewed themselves...unless Big Pharma is run by Zionist Jews rather than Bolshevik Jews. Those Bolshevik Jews are getting too noisy and starting to tippietoe on the Zionists' turf, so the needles had to come out and the masks had to come on. Now put your fuckin' masks on, ya Bolsheviks and Shabbos Goy degenerates!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:56AM
No, it's actually coming along nicely. We have almost all our people protected while at the same time bullshitting the idiot rednecks into thinking they shouldn't get it, so they'll eventually die out from the disease.
I originally thought the plan was insane, I thought nobody would be THAT stupid to fall for it, but hey, what can I say, it worked.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:23PM (2 children)
What blue pill? And what turned out to be bad about it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:28PM
"Have you suffered an erection for more than 4 years? You should see a woman to discuss the situation." I'm pretty sure he meant THAT blue pill.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:44PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_mass [wikipedia.org]
The fact that it contained a lot of mercury. Things are safe until we find out that they are not.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:48AM (4 children)
You act all smug, but look at the low number of new cases in China... sometimes even zero. That Sinovac must be working really well!
As for side effects -- being forcibly welded into your home happens all the time, everywhere.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:30PM (3 children)
Smug? If you say so.
And, if you accept the CCP's storyline without question, maybe you'd be interested in a nice bridge too.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:07PM (2 children)
Whoosh.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:39PM (1 child)
Now you're talking about Smaug. Your face looks medium well done.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14 2021, @05:25AM
Probably from the welding flash.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by choose another one on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:21PM
> Experimental drugs and treatments linked to bad side effects! Who'da thunk it?
GBS also linked to flu vaccine, and some other vaccines, and has been for many years... and yet we are still dishing out flu vaccines, usually new ones each year.
Turns out that GBS is also associated with getting the actual flu, just as it is with getting the actual covid.
It remains very rare after vaccination or disease, and from what I've seen so far the disease is still a lot higher risk. Now of course the risk of getting the vaccination is 100% if you choose to get it, whereas the risk of getting the disease is probably close to 100% (given latest variants) if no one gets vaccinated. Lowest personal risk, as always with everything, is to let others face the risks for you - i.e. get everyone else vaccinated until disease is gone and you don't need to risk the vaccination. Some people step up to act for the good of all, others hide behind them, plus ca change.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:32PM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:39PM (1 child)
Except such a thing doesn't even exist. Might as well call NIH with same whacko theories.
Or maybe it's a British thing since they also have a virus lab.
https://www.gla.ac.uk/researchinstitutes/iii/cvr/virologytraining/ [gla.ac.uk]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 14 2021, @07:57AM
Don't you mean "also don't have"?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @05:43PM
"I'm just gonna ridicule this conspiracy theory for failing to be supported by reality."
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday July 14 2021, @04:26AM
Fortunately, Sinovac comes with a warning label: "Made in China"
There have been reports of Sinovac vials that contained nothing but saline, which naturally did not have the desired effect (whatever that may be). Given that, who knows what some batches have been made of.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:47AM (7 children)
All you microchipped sheep will be begging for Win11.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:04AM (2 children)
Counter example -- vax back in April/May, still happy with Win7!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:08AM
That's because you were already chipped. When you weren't looking. Probably some Tuesday.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:25PM
Vaxxed in March/June, and still happy with Devuan Linux. No Windows in sight, except for the triple-pane glass ones in the walls of my apartment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:33AM
At least I'll have better 5G reception.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:52AM (2 children)
Please tell me you're kidding.
I mean, that this kind of bullshit grows like weed on sites where the average IQ is below room temperature like Reddit is a given, but so far I was under the impression that at a page that at least nominally pretends to be catering to an audience that at least pretends to have two brain cells to bang together, people should at least have a passing knowledge on how NFT and/or biology works and statements like this could only be either ironic or being mercilessly laughed out the door.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @07:29AM (1 child)
Why you being dopey and conversationalizing with the ivan?
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 13 2021, @07:57AM
I'm in a meeting and the markedroid is droning on about how great we are, I need some entertaining distractions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:08AM
I can still hear him laughing while inside me.
(Score: 5, Informative) by linkdude64 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @05:59AM (24 children)
...after taking the Pfizer vaccine. So it's surprising to see that this was from the J&J - however, doctors refused to list the cause of death as the vaccine, so you have to wonder how many people are actually dying from the vaccines. Now, if you're emotionally reacting to the question, you're going to be assuming that's a right-wing talking point. But I only mean for the sake of science that we need to be aware of how many people die, let's say, in ANY clinical trial for ANY drug. Right now, they are NOT collecting accurate data, and the government-media complex is running coverage for the pharmaceutical industry, which seems to be factually - not just politically - accurate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @06:50AM (3 children)
Male [way] over fifty here. Got the J&J one-and-done four months ago. No clots. No new auto-immunities. Kind of disappointed that I didn't get a ticket into the next world. Oh well.
Only vaxxed to set my kids minds at ease.
And OBTW, causes of auto-immune disease are still unknown, but tons of cases have been showing up over the past twenty years. Something is rotten in our environment. Twelve years ago I suddenly became allergic to every form of milk product, and suffered for a year with "chronic urticaria" from head to toe. I eventually traced it to the butter and cheese I loved so much. On the first of every month, try a piece of pizza to see if the allergy has miraculously healed - no luck so far. Avoiding milk products, I am healthy as an ox.
Given my experience, I would not be hasty in concluding that the correlation is causation in the case of the vaccine. Oh, and also the news blurb I heard noted that only one person (out of 12 million) has died of this, and TFS above notes that most people will recover from the malady. I still will not hesitate to recommend J&J.
As ever, YMMV. Maybe you'll be a lucky lotto winner. Odds are [way] against it.
(Score: 4, Funny) by hendrikboom on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:30PM (1 child)
Quick! Apply for a patent on time travel!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:33PM
We time lords never need hurry.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:42PM
It's a complex OS, and the software still has bugs.
Chatting to a friend just earlier today about hair and she mentioned that someone she knows just had a baby, and she "caught" partial alopecia from the pregnancy.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Username on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:03AM (6 children)
Dying with covid is a covid death. Dying with covid vaccine is just coincidence. Amazing how counting methods change when liability is involved.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Common Joe on Tuesday July 13 2021, @09:38AM (5 children)
This.
I have someone close to me who was diagnosed with being permanently dizzy (purposely withholding the diagnosis) shortly after vaccination and they strongly suspect it was the Pfizer vaccine. The sad part is that no doctor wants to touch that one with a ten foot pole. Now, I'll admit that they are a little bit conspiracy happy, so it's hard for me to know if it's just this person going off on nothing or if there is something there. The problem is that I've seen many doctors who don't give a crap or who are overworked. If we don't gather symptoms and run some stats, how do we know what's vaccine related and what isn't?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:25AM (4 children)
Semi permanent vertigo was already quite common before COVID came around, my wife did therapy for hers for months in her mid 50s and eventually just learned to live with it. I was lucky, got an acute case of vertigo around age 48 that completely resolved in days. When you mention yours, other people will share their own similar experiences, some diagnosed, fewer treated, by medical professionals, many not.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @01:26PM (2 children)
Vertigo? Try the eply maneuver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtT2PDJVXlk [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:26PM (1 child)
Won't work in this case, but I wanted to thank you because I wanted a good video of this for a while now. I'd heard about it but never seen it. The lady explains it really well. And the Eply maneuver can help someone else I do know.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:51PM
Used it on my wife several times - improved but did not cure her symptoms. Eventually quit improving the symptoms too.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:29PM
Oof. No fun. I'm glad it turned out ok for you and your wife. For the person I have in mind, they will also have to just learn to live with it, but they're feeling pretty bummed about it because of the other health issues they are dealing with. (Death by a thousand paper cuts kind of thing.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:17AM (4 children)
332 million people in the US. The background rate in the US generally increases with age, but medians around 1.11 per 100,000. Right now they are well within the expectations, even with all the fake VAERS reports being added. And they are collecting data in the actual trials. But if you are worried about deaths outside the trials, then report it to VAERS yourself.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:49AM (3 children)
The difference is that there is a temporal connection between vaccination and onset of Guillain-Barré syndrome, making it more likely to be a causal relationship. The comparison to background rates is usually inappropriate. Statistically, associations can usually not be proven due to small number of events (with 100 events it might be possible). The decision to suggest an adverse drug reaction (ADR) is made informally, by a committee weighing the evidence (e.g. a DSMB).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @09:34AM (2 children)
Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Absent other evidence and given the fact that adverse events can happen just due the randomness of life, saying it is the vaccine's fault requires evidence. In the Janssen vaccine, they have some evidence, likely because of the type of vaccine it is or because of the trial data allowing further insight, that they are going to discuss at the ACIP meeting. A random person on the Internet with no apparent expertise or understanding saying "this happened and then that happened" isn't.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @11:56AM (1 child)
Your philosophy will severely undercount the side effects. You realize this, don't you? Hypothetical: "Hey, I took the vaccine 3 days ago, healthy as an ox, and now I'm so dizzy, I can't walk straight!" "Pure coincidence. Proves nothing!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @10:32PM
The problem with being right for a bad reason is that you cannot tell it apart from being wrong for a bad reason without a good reason. If we allow temporal antecedence alone to determine causality, then literally every event caused all of those that followed. Getting vaccinated caused you to get hit by a bus walking to work. A butterfly flapping its wings in Nepal caused a man to trip in Mexico five minutes later. Shutting your finger in a drawer is why your mom called seconds after. That sharp and unexpected turn they took as a passenger in traffic caused your neighbor's cat's stroke. All of those are just as valid, that is completely invalid and weak.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:36PM (6 children)
That exactly. We knew a year ago that deaths were being attributed to the COVIDS pointlessly. Dude came down the road at 180 mph on his motorcycle, and embedded his skull into a Mack Truck engine compartment. Cause of death was COVIDS. Doctors have a lot of discretion in determining cause of death.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:04PM (5 children)
You believed a meme that said that and when the eggheads came out and properly explained you lost interest.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:13PM (4 children)
Nonsense. You go ahead and tell yourself that, if it helps you to keep faith in the talking heads. Right here in Backwoods, Nowhere, deaths were attributed to COVID after they died of various causes. Those causes ranged from long term terminal diseases to auto accidents. There were financial incentives for hospitals to report COVID deaths, and at least some of those hospitals took advantage of those incentives.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 13 2021, @04:17PM (3 children)
Your news sources keep ya coming back to re-arm for more debates.
Slashdolt Logic: "25 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday July 14 2021, @01:11AM (2 children)
Not to comment on your particular spat, but mid last year, a close friend's aunt was an elderly lady in the hospital on what was likely to be her death bed. She had stage 4 pancreatic cancer, and was too weak to perform further chemotherapy - She fell out of her hospital bed and hit her head on the hospital floor, which caused a large brain hemorrhage, so she was transferred to the ICU, where she died the next day. Guess what was listed as the cause of death on her certificate? COVID-19. You can say things like, "This doesn't happen anywhere, ever, no matter what." But that's tribalism, rather than science which is supposed to acknowledge the complexity of reality by going to such lengths to control it, but of course that more existential notion has been lost on many.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14 2021, @03:18PM
So, we are now offering anecdotes of what happened to the aunt of a "close friend" of some random person posting under a pseudonym on the internet as evidence? Seriously?!?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 15 2021, @12:19AM
Ah yes, I forgot about the widespread memo to all doctors telling them to list the cause of deat as COVID whenever they felt they could get away with it! You cracked the case!
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:55PM
When it's death with COVID and the agenda is to get people to take COVID seriously, it's recorded as death from COVID.
When it's death after vaccination, well sir, can you prove that your family is eligible for compensation from the vaccine injury recovery fund? No? I thought not. Death by natural causes it is, then.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @12:29PM
is ALWAYS right
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rich on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:33PM
No discussion about the causes of any of the observed effects?
It was reported early on that GBS is seen among COVID patients. This would lead me to the assumption that there is something about both the virus and the J&J vaccine that triggers the condition. It would be interesting to see whether the other vaccines, particularly the mRNAs on one side, and the other vector-based ones (particularly Sputnik Light, which uses the same Ad26 carrier) also have a risk of triggering GBS.
I have the (unquantified) impression that the CoV2 spike protein is seriously nasty stuff, and any exposure to it is a lottery, because depending on how the body reacts, the body reaction may cause all kinds of damaging side effects. There are also the findings that the mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis; it would be interesting to know if that happens with live infections as well, and lo and behold, I found a number of 2.3% (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2780548 [jamanetwork.com].
Conclusion would be that, yes, the vaccines do damage, but to a lower extent, by magnitudes, than an actual infection. Eventually, nearly everyone will be exposed to some variant of the virus, so taking part in the lottery via any of the vaccines seems like a rather good proposition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 13 2021, @08:08PM
Normally, the "vaccines" are just supposed to give you long term autoimmune diseases (MS, etc) to make sure you don't stick around long enough to get your pension, Social Security, insurance benefits, etc. GB is just what happens when they work too well on some people.