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posted by mrpg on Monday July 19, @02:00AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the hydrogen,-why-not dept.

Siemens Mobility to test hydrogen train on Bavarian rail route:

Siemens Mobility has signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to test a hydrogen-powered train in the German state of Bavaria.

The company signed the MoU with the state government of Bavaria and local railway company Bayerische Regiobahn (BRB) to conduct the trial.

The two-car train will begin test runs from mid-2023 on the Augsburg – Füssen route and will enter passenger services in January 2024.

The pilot operations will initially run for 30 months. During this period, the train will be stationed in Augsburg.

The train is being developed on the basis of Siemens Mobility's Mireo Plus H platform. The vehicle will have a range of up to 800km and will be capable of running on non-electrified rail lines.

As primary modules of the hydrogen traction drive, two fuel cells will be placed on the train's roof. The system will utilise the newest generation of batteries from the Saft company that will be deployed beneath the floor.


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Monday July 19, @03:17AM (11 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Monday July 19, @03:17AM (#1157778)

    What is this? The United States?

    They'd be better off investing in the infrastructure instead of coming up with atrociously inefficient hare-brained hydrogen locos. Hydrogen is stupid: it's all but impractical to generator from hydrolysis, so most of it comes from natural gas. They'd be better off running regular diesels on natural gas directly then.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @03:37AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @03:37AM (#1157779)

      Jews create new markets whether or not they are needed, then convince the populace (sometimes at gunpoint) that they need this new electric car, or this new vaccine, or this new medicine which treats vaccine complications, or this mustache curler, or this new weapon, or this donation to Antifa and BLM, or this new IMF loan, or this new "diversity," or this new multistory "affordable" housing building in the middle of your nice walkable neighborhood in a drought-ridden state, or those new Pixar movies geared towards illiterate Mexicans and Chinese kids, etc. etc.

      There are some who can't be convinced that they need any of that crap when what they already have is comfortable, but the joke's on them because Jews in Congress and Industry make them pay with their tax dollars anyway.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @06:16AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @06:16AM (#1157796)

        ... or this mustache curler...

        So that's why the Jews don't like Hitler. With a mustache like that you don't need a curler!

    • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Monday July 19, @03:53AM (3 children)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Monday July 19, @03:53AM (#1157781)

      How is this a troll?

      Facts:

      - The US is backwards when it comes to railways. Like, way backwards. Germany isn't supposed to be in that respect.
      - Hydrogen as an energy vector is incredibly inefficient
      - Hydrogen today is mostly extracted from non-renewable energy sources
      - Running diesels on natural gas at 35% efficiency is more efficient than turning natural gas into hydrogen at 70% efficiency, then creating electricity out of it in a fuel cell at 60% efficiency and running a electric motor at 85% efficiency - and those are best case figures. Not to mention the cost of developing the hydrogen locomotives when there are plenty of diesels around that could be converted easily

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday July 19, @06:11AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 19, @06:11AM (#1157795) Journal

        Hydrogen as an energy vector is incredibly inefficient

        At high pressure, there are complications (diffusion, metal embrittlement).

        At moderate pressures, not so much - it all depends on the hydrogen distribution pipeline and Europe is growing one [gasforclimate2050.eu]

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Monday July 19, @07:52AM

        by shrewdsheep (5215) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 19, @07:52AM (#1157808)

        It's pure market forces, not inability or lack of foresight. In Germany, the railway system is being held publicly, but run privately (as in a publicly traded company). This implies that electrification of a line is a pure business decision: maintenance of electricity infrastructure vs. additional cost for running diesel engines. For quite some lines, diesel is more efficient (rural, passengers only).

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @03:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @03:08PM (#1157887)

        i think it's a "half-assed" problem. ofc it gets mathematically when comparing infinities but if you have a infinite energy SOURCE (and infra to gather it, duh) then storing it and releasing it again even at crazy bad efficiencies of say ... oh ... ah ... 1% is still infinite.
        the problem is that germany might not have natural gas or lithium but has potential to gather from an infinite source and use a abundant available storage medium, that is water.
        ofc, methinks "just stringing" a overhead wire would be the simplest way?

        then again, and here i am on limb, yes, maybe if you add the two together, that is the train had accesd to an overhead line AND a tank of water with an electrolyzer it could, maybe, "go faster then the wind"?

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 19, @06:06AM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 19, @06:06AM (#1157794) Journal

      it's all but impractical to generator from hydrolysis

      [Citation needed]

      ---
      Meanwhile

      Methanol water hydrolysis [sciencedirect.com]

      The electrical energy needed in methanol–water solution electrolysis was less than 60% of that required in water electrolysis.

      Electrolytic synthesis of methanol from water and CO2 [google.com] - patent since 1975.

      The combination can function as renewable energy storage.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday July 19, @06:31AM (1 child)

        by deimtee (3272) on Monday July 19, @06:31AM (#1157799) Journal

        They've got CO2 in the output, so they are breaking down the methanol. You might get H2 at 60% of the energy usage of H2O hydrolysis but you'll make it up replacing the methanol.

        --
        No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 19, @06:35AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 19, @06:35AM (#1157800) Journal

          Carbon neutral energy storage, yes. Is this not good enough for you?

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Monday July 19, @10:03AM

      by driverless (4770) on Monday July 19, @10:03AM (#1157821)

      Yeah, but it's going from Daglfing to Freilassing via Lampferding so you can pick up your Weißbräu. Doesn't matter how it's powered, as long as it gets there. Prost!

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Monday July 19, @03:15PM

      by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 19, @03:15PM (#1157889) Homepage Journal

      This is a technology demonstrator. Electric overhead lines work well for within city or inter city services, but trains exist around the world in locations without easy access to electricity.

      From the article, it actually appears to me that the train has provisions to integrate with the electric network. If you have a rail line with partial electrical coverage, you could pull from the grid to drive the wheels and generate hydrogen when the power is available, then make some water to drive without electricity.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @12:00PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, @12:00PM (#1157849)

    The Hindenburg Express. This might not end well.

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