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posted by martyb on Monday July 26 2021, @02:15PM   Printer-friendly

The Moon Tricks Tesla's Full Self-Driving Feature Into Thinking It's a Yellow Light:

Tesla recently announced that any Tesla user can subscribe to Autopilot’s Full Self-Driving feature for $99 to $199 per month, but it seems the new feature still comes with its fair share of kinks. Recently a Tesla driver took to Twitter to share an entertaining little problem with the system.

It turns out that the feature mistakes the full moon for a yellow light and slows down the vehicle. It should be noted that this is an extremely yellow and quite low moon.

Hey @elonmusk you might want to have your team look into the moon tricking the autopilot system. The car thinks the moon is a yellow traffic light and wanted to keep slowing down. 🤦🏼 @Teslarati @teslaownersSV @TeslaJoy pic.twitter.com/6iPEsLAudD

— Jordan Nelson (@JordanTeslaTech) July 23, 2021


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @02:24PM (27 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 26 2021, @02:24PM (#1159999) Journal

    subscribe to Autopilot’s Full Self-Driving feature for $99 to $199 per month,

    That is just so very wrong. I buy my thingy, I expect to be able to use it, with all of it's features, without limit. I most certainly do not expect to pay someone $200/month to use my property as it is intended to be used.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @02:35PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @02:35PM (#1160005)

      The alternative would be a 24000$ uptick in the sales price (calculated to a reasonable 10 years of usage). 200 is obviously cheaper than 24000, so more people will buy that. Nobody ever said that owning a Tesla made you either smart or better than the rest of humanity *eyeroll*.

      Don't like it? The alternative makes less money for Tesla, so please kindly just go away, will ya?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:48PM (#1160071)

        > Nobody ever said that owning a Tesla made you either smart or better than the rest of humanity *eyeroll*.

        While I second your sentiment... *someone* must have been saying that, or else the many Tesla customers must inherently believe (or want us to believe) that they are smarter/better/richer/greener than the rest of us.

        ...in the same way that Beemer & Audi drivers believe that the rest of us are rolling roadblocks that must move over when they drive up our ass.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @02:50PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @02:50PM (#1160008)

      You're renting a half-finished product that is still in development. As much as we'd like to see our vehicles being immutable, we've allowed our politicians the leeway to create vehicles as a server as a viable businessplan, and the corporate world has taken to the intentional oversight with glee.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Monday July 26 2021, @04:32PM (5 children)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday July 26 2021, @04:32PM (#1160040) Journal

        I've worked on enough antique cars to see that development is never finished. Every year of a model's run of a decade or so brings new tweaks.

        For example, one car I know started with a 4 speed manual transmission in which 1st gear was not synchronized, and there wasn't a front seal, instead using packing and an Archimedes screw incised into the shaft to carry oil back inside. Saved a very little money. The Archimedes screw works, but there's a caveat. It only works when the shaft is spinning. Therefore, you must not leave the car parked facing downhill for long periods of time, or the transmission will lose a lot of oil. As for unsynchronized 1st gear, the problem with that is you have to come to a complete stop before moving the shift from neutral to 1st, or you'll grind the gears. You might think that because you're approaching a stop sign or red light, that's no big deal, but actually it turns out that costs you a few seconds. You can't have the shifter already in 1st gear as you are slowing to a stop, ready to go again the second you've stopped. And, no, double clutching doesn't really work, not for 1st gear, as you will have rolled to a stop anyway before you can finish the double clutch maneuver. And so, 2 years later, they added a synchronizer to 1st, and also at some point switched to a proper front seal. That's just the transmission. For the engine, lots more tweaks. Like, the radiator used straight fins and a tiny little fan, and so, the engine would overheat if you were stuck in traffic on a hot day. Changing the fins from straight to wavy was done sometime during its near decade long production run. Another was the exhaust and intake manifolds. The first year, they were simple straight pipes with 90 degree bends. Back in those days, manufacturers didn't appreciate how much drag that added to the engine, robbing it of power.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:16PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:16PM (#1160084)

          Really? They retroactively made those changes to every car they sold the year before? Or are you saying there were differences between model years of the "same" car?

          Renting features shouldn't be a thing, in my opinion, but its been around at least as long as OnStar. But Tesla's in particular are an odd "car" - with purchasable feature's that aren't yet ready, continuous software updates, and other oddities that don't fit the "I bought it, it's mine and will never change unless I change it" mentality.

        • (Score: 0, Redundant) by aristarchus on Monday July 26 2021, @09:20PM (2 children)

          by aristarchus (2645) on Monday July 26 2021, @09:20PM (#1160163) Journal

          And, no, double clutching doesn't really work, not for 1st gear, as you will have rolled to a stop anyway before you can finish the double clutch maneuver.

          Actually, it does, if you know how to drive an unsyncho'ed tranny. I remember when none of the gears were synchro'ed! Had to listen to your engine, feel your shifter, and plan ahead when driving, instead of being fooled by a moon.

          • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:29AM

            by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:29AM (#1160224) Journal

            Sure, double clutching works on most gears in most manual transmissions, but in this case, 1st gear is a granny gear. No, double clutching doesn't really work, not on a granny gear. In some vehicles, the granny gear is only used if you are towing a trailer. When there is no trailer hitched up, you don't even use 1st, you start out in 2nd gear.

            But the car I'm speaking of has what is known as an over-square engine, and is British. I don't know why, but on their low end cars, the Brits liked to seriously underpower them. I have heard there was an engine tax, and suppose it must have increased rapidly as engine size increased. Their engines are always a few cc under some round number of liters. Yeah, Teslas do 0 to 60 mph in under 3 seconds. Electric is that crazy fast. A 12 second 0 to 60 time is considered slow. This car needs 30 seconds to reach 60 mph, and its top speed is only 80 mph, that's how underpowered it was. Over-square engines generally operate at high RPMs, and have such low torque that starting out in 2nd gear is out of the question-- the car can't do it. You _could_ start out in 2nd, if you're willing to burn up your clutch slipping it like mad until the car is rolling fast enough to fully engage without making the engine stall, but I'm not in the least interested in using that sort of destructive driving technique.

            You also can't spare your brake foot, if you need to rev the engine a bit, because you may be rolling up to the stop too fast and must use the brake. The trick of using the emergency brake as a hand brake is also no good for this, as you will not have a free hand to work the gear shift if it's occupied working the emergency brake.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:54AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:54AM (#1160271) Journal

            I also remember unsynchronized transmissions. Bearing in mind that many of those were 3-on-the-tree shifters, how did that speed shifting work out? You would be replacing bushings regularly, I think.

            While I can't exactly vouch for bzipitidoo's experience with any specific vehicle, I can vouch that not all cars and trucks are equally cooperative when double clutching and/or speed shifting. Some are very forgiving, and will fall into gear easily. Others, not so much. I've driven a small number of pickup trucks that would not shift into first and/or granny and/or low and/or creeper gear until the vehicle came to a complete stop. Not to mention that some heavy duty class 8 trucks have crazy idiosyncrasies.

            Of course, when you get pretty good at all that double clutching nonsense, you discover that you can shift most engines without even using the clutch, if you're patient enough to work the throttle alone.

        • (Score: 2) by dltaylor on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:34AM

          by dltaylor (4693) on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:34AM (#1160530)

          Had a 52 Chevy pickup with 54 GMC engine and a non-synchro 1st. Not really difficult to "sync" the engine to the trans. Many years later, despite U-Haul's advertizing, we ended up with a truck that not only didn't have an automatic, but 1st wasn't synchro in it. Got diverted into a winding, up-and-down residential neighborhood due to a nasty accident on the main road. Appreciated the earlier experience while navigating that.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 26 2021, @04:09PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 26 2021, @04:09PM (#1160032) Journal

      That is just so very wrong. I buy my thingy, I expect to be able to use it, with all of it's features, without limit

      My thingy came pre-installed. I did not have to buy it. Nobody in blue states have imposed any limits on how often I use my thingy. I have not yet worn it out. All features still work.

      I most certainly do not expect to pay someone $200/month to use my property as it is intended to be used.

      Using my thingy is definitely much better when it doesn't cost me money.

      Well . . . other than Amazon packages keep arriving at front door which I did not order.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by EvilSS on Monday July 26 2021, @06:45PM

      by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 26 2021, @06:45PM (#1160107)
      This. When you drive it home, you should own it. If you then want updates, you just pay individually for them, like they used to do for on board GPS maps back in the day.
    • (Score: 2) by beernutz on Monday July 26 2021, @08:02PM

      by beernutz (4365) on Monday July 26 2021, @08:02PM (#1160137)

      Then buy it! This is just an option for people who don't want to pay up front.

    • (Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Monday July 26 2021, @08:54PM (6 children)

      by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday July 26 2021, @08:54PM (#1160156)

      >That is just so very wrong
      indeed, you are just so very wrong.

      You absolutely can avoid paying the monthly feature lease, and have always been able to. It costs $10k. Do you complain that your carrier lets you pay for a new phone $40/month instead of charging you a grand at purchase time?

      >use my property as it is intended to be used
      it's not your property unless you pay for it, which is an option. if you lease it for $200/month, it's their property.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @09:49PM (5 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 26 2021, @09:49PM (#1160171) Journal

        That's my point. I don't lease, I don't rent, and I'm not about to subscribe to some stupid "service" that was built into the vehicle to start with.

        • (Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:15AM (4 children)

          by fakefuck39 (6620) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:15AM (#1160215)

          yes, I get it - when people are born, they should buy a house - no apartments. Everyone should buy phones and cars. When you get a cable box, you should pay $10k and get free tv for the rest of your life, because you already have all the needed decoding hardware. Your point is, the only option for people should be to pay $10k upfront, and if they only plan on having the car for 3 years, they should just eat the huge extra cost. They should have no other choice, because if everyone only has the same retarded choice you make in life, your choice no longer looks so retarded. It's the same reason Christians try to preach to everyone else.

          Actually, your real point, which is blatantly obvious, is you didn't know the traditional 10k purchase up front option was there, and you commented on a subject you know zero about with anger, to make yourself feel superior. Instead you made yourself look like the retard you are.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:36AM (3 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:36AM (#1160227) Journal

            *yawn*

            Thanks for being ridiculous. Meanwhile, renting a home sucks ass - you pay, and pay, and pay, and never own anything. You know that, I know that, and anyone with a lick of sense knows that. That is why you rent only until you can scrape up enough to purchase. You'll still get raped with the mortgage, but at least you start to earn equity after just a few years.

            The same principal applies with renting or leasing a service such as mentioned above. Buy the hardware outright, or your purse will be raped indefinitely.

            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:01AM (2 children)

              by fakefuck39 (6620) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:01AM (#1160259)

              The financial genius of a retard. Renting for most people is cheaper than buying a home. By the time repairs, property taxes, and interest on the loan add up, you're actually throwing away more money than if you had put the downpayment into vigax or my favorite, t rowe price blue chip.

              >you rent only until you can scrape up enough to purchase
              I don't. I buy apartment buildings, rent them out, depreciate them and write expenses off of taxes. I then rent myself. This makes me extra money vs buying a home, and increases my income by being geographically mobile in the job market.

              You do rent till you can purchase, because you are a retard and don't know how to manage money.

              >The same principal applies with renting or leasing a service such as mentioned above.
              Most people who buy those cars keep them about 3 years, and want something new after that. In fact, lots of people lease complete cars for that exact reason. So to most people, the option to lease a service instead of paying $10k, leaves them with more money.

              I get it - you're an idiot, you let feelings about things control your decisions instead of a spreadsheet, and you feel your decisions make you big and manly. In reality, they just make you give money you've earned to others - from banks, to car companies, to employers.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:26AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:26AM (#1160263)

                I buy apartment buildings, rent them out, depreciate them and write expenses off of taxes.

                Ahhh, the epitome of privileged white upper class Americans.

                • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @04:47AM

                  by fakefuck39 (6620) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @04:47AM (#1160284)

                  yes, that privilege of only paying taxes on profit. when your building gets older, it loses value - it's the land that usually goes up. just like you can write off capital losses when stock goes down, and losses to gambling, you write off.

                  but i get it. for people who have nothing, like yourself, you want companies to pay taxes on gains, but not save taxes on losses. thankfully, because you are literally an ant, nothing you do, nor your retarded opinions on anything, are even heard by anyone. and then you'll die, old, sick, living on social security, and it will have been like you never existed.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:42PM (3 children)

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:42PM (#1160359)

      so, software engineers, hardware engineers dont deserve to be paid for their 40 hours (plus) a week?

      ignore the profit for now; there is actual cost in developing this tech and not every owner needs/wants it, so its an optional add-on.

      what's so hard to understand?

      you arguing the number itself or that there IS a number? I'll argue the number (should be smaller) but the idea makes perfect sense. in fact, better than perfect sense; why pay for something that WILL NOT TRANSFER to your next car (if it ever touches tesla corp. and they always strip software options like fsd and may buyers of the used car re-buy it!)

      given how that works, I'd rather rent it for the current car (btw, I wont even though I do own a model 3) than pay $10k and lose all of that when I sell the car or trade it in.

      tesla wont get level 5 with this sensor array. I'm 100% sure of that but its quite ok as a level 2 car and for that, its worth the money for the base AP package (comes included these days). EAP is the next middle level up and they stopped selling that, so its just basic AP which is included or FSD which is way too expensive for what it currently gives and wont ever transfer to your next tesla, if you are dumb enough to buy your 2nd tesla after being 'elon'd on the first one.

      yeah, I kind of hate the company at this point and dont like the direction they are going. I held my updates back from before december and there has been nothing of value in the update stream since then (the UI actually went backwards in usability so I held back taking the ota updates).

      they have clearly reached their peak. the good ones have left the company and they mostly hire young/cheap entry level people there.

      the other vendors are going to be the ones to watch. lucid, rivian (if you like trucks) and maybe some others are coming up on tesla; and that's just in the US. china has a lot more cars being developed, as well.

      when tesla was the only game in town, we put up with a lot from that elon character. but soon, we'll have choices and that will force tesla to start to behave a bit better. at least we hope.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:54PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:54PM (#1160366)

        Yes, the features aren't ready for primetime, so people shouldn't be paying. These aren't just a little but off, people have been killed by the unfinished work. If Tesla wants to pay fur the work, fine, but it shouldn't be owners paying directly.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:11AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:11AM (#1160524)

          People pay for beta releases all the time, sometimes even alpha. They are called "early adopters" and they help fund the development of many products and services.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:56PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:56PM (#1160368) Journal

        Who said anything about not paying the people who built it?

        My point is, when I buy a book, it's mine. I don't have to pay the author again every time I read it.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:38PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:38PM (#1160378)

      If I need to run someone over due to their standing in the middle of the road religious sermon about how I should give my hard earned wealth to them, then I expect to run them down like the scum they are and not to have my vehicle come to a dead stop allowing them to carjack me.

      I speak from experience.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:57PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:57PM (#1160382) Journal

        Siri-like voice:

        I see that you are trying to escape a crazed carjacker. You might wish to purchase the Mad Max addon package. If you wish to go Mad Max, please answer in the affirmative, and wave your credit card or cell phone in front of the sensor now.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:31AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:31AM (#1160581)

      Well they're not selling to you outright, they're leasing a subscription. I'd say they have a right to monetize their product however they want. You shouldn't sign on the dotted line if you don't like it and bring your money elsewhere.

      If you did and expect to have to be able to utilize the product beyond that said agreement, joke's on you.

      No I don't agree with the way their doing business hence I'm not given them my money - but I don't begrudge them how they like to peddle their services and product and I'm glad I live in a society that allows for this.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Opportunist on Monday July 26 2021, @02:57PM (4 children)

    by Opportunist (5545) on Monday July 26 2021, @02:57PM (#1160009)

    If position correctly, you could flash a red light at a Tesla and get it to a screeching halt.

    The fun you could have with that...

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday July 26 2021, @04:12PM (2 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 26 2021, @04:12PM (#1160034) Journal

      Imagine if red haze made the sun look red and tricked your Tesla to stop while you're trying to flee the half of the country that is burning to get to the other half that is flooding.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:26PM (#1160094)

        Imagine if red haze made the sun look red and tricked your Tesla to stop

        Or when Mars [wikipedia.org] is low in the sky.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:12PM (#1160116)

        Can't we just tilt the planet a little to the left?

    • (Score: 2) by arslan on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:33AM

      by arslan (3462) on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:33AM (#1160583)

      Not as funny or devastating as flashing a green light when one shouldn't be flashing...

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by FatPhil on Monday July 26 2021, @03:11PM (2 children)

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 26 2021, @03:11PM (#1160012) Homepage
    At what distance did the onboard cameras think the "traffic lights" were placed? It ought to conclude they're hundreds of thousands of kilometres away, so any slowing down really wouldn't need to be done any time soon anyway, even if they were traffic lights. Of course, knowing what the Tesla thinks is the size of the bulbs, and the power would they be dissipating, could be amusing too.
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Monday July 26 2021, @03:38PM (1 child)

      by mhajicek (51) on Monday July 26 2021, @03:38PM (#1160020)

      Unless it's going by diameter, in which case it would appear very close.

      --
      The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:12PM (#1160051)

        It's going by AI.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @04:05PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @04:05PM (#1160030)

    Just like nuclear fusion is only 20 years away, or the cure for cancer, or peace on Earth...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:26PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:26PM (#1160062)

      Full self driving has been available for limited access rail (aka subway) at least since 1904, if not earlier. Rocketry has had it since the 1960's. Surface rail has had it for around 25 years, mostly limited by unions. Aircraft have mostly had it for about twenty years now, the biggest holdup left being automated air traffic control. Cars...are going to take a while.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:26PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:26PM (#1160124)

        Aircraft have mostly had it for about twenty years now

        And yet, there still isn't a single country in the world that allows full self driving airliners to fly in their airspace without having at least two fully qualified pilots in the cockpit at all times.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:27PM (#1160205)

          That is due to the almost complete lack of autopilot friendly ATC. There have been a few small pushes in that direction in the form of long distance queuing but all of the important traffic management is still human-pilot-centric.

          Numerous accidents over the last few years have shown that "fully qualified" isn't what it used to be.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:36PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:36PM (#1160209)

    So if it sees a green bush will it confuse it for a green light and go

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 28 2021, @01:13AM (#1160526)

      Bushes don't normally glow like lights do

  • (Score: 2) by jb on Tuesday July 27 2021, @06:54AM (1 child)

    by jb (338) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @06:54AM (#1160300)

    I wonder whether that would qualify the designers as true lunatics?

    • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:45PM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:45PM (#1160360)

      well, they have been seen drinking pina coladas at trader nicks...

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
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