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England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists:
Boris Johnson’s plan to lift virtually all of England’s pandemic restrictions on Monday is a threat to the world and provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants, international experts say.
Britain’s position as a global transport hub would mean any new variant here would rapidly spread around the world, scientists and physicians warned at an emergency summit. They also expressed grave concerns about Downing Street’s plans.
Government advisers in New Zealand, Israel and Italy were among those who sounded alarm bells about the policy, while more than 1,200 scientists backed a letter to the Lancet journal warning the strategy could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop.
[...] New coronavirus infections in the UK are at a six-month high, according to government figures, and the number of people in hospital and dying with Covid are at their highest level since March. Thursday’s data showed 3,786 people in hospital with Covid and another 63 virus-related deaths.
Downing Street, which has defended the lifting of all remaining legal restrictions on social gatherings in England on 19 July, is hoping the rapid rollout of vaccines will keep a lid on the number of people becoming seriously ill.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:08PM (3 children)
Spreading influence just like they said Brexit would do. Take that libs!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday July 26 2021, @06:10PM (2 children)
Millions dead so a few overdressed nonces can feel superior? It's just like the good old days of the empire.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:21PM
I'm sure fancy clothes look great on you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:14AM
Several million dead Pommies, would anyone care?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:16PM (8 children)
It's a small island. It shouldn't be too difficult to set up a naval blockade. Just bomb the runways to keep aircraft grounded, and shoot down anything that crosses the Channel. We can airdrop needed supplies since they can barely feed themselves
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:58PM
Why airdrop supplies? Just tell the news not to show the starving or dead kids on TV, like with Yemen and Syria.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday July 26 2021, @07:43PM
Like they said in Snowcrash, "It's not smart to declare war on a nuclear power".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday July 26 2021, @08:01PM (2 children)
Been there, tried that. Had a Heil of a time.
--A. HItler, H. Goering, K. Doenitz
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:30AM (1 child)
Hitler moved just a little too early. If he had delayed a couple of years he could have had the A bomb first.
Now that basically everybody has the A bomb, all we have to do is ensure that GB can't deliver theirs anywhere outside their island.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @04:04PM
You'd have to find all the submarines to do that. Good luck!
(Score: 2) by turgid on Monday July 26 2021, @09:18PM
I have a rubber dinghy, oars and a crate of beer.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Tuesday July 27 2021, @01:42AM (1 child)
Drop some Poles or others that work on low wages, the brits would rather starve and let their crops rot [euronews.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:35AM
Whinging that they can't get cheap Euro labour is not really much different to complaining that the darkies won't work since they abolished slavery.
I'd pick vegies for £20 an hour if I wasn't working, I won't pick them for £2 a day.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @05:21PM (7 children)
"lIsTeN tO tHe ExPeRtS" [dailymail.co.uk]
Positive cases are down over 20% in the last week [data.gov.uk] there's multiple reasons for that, a general explanation is people now accept the virus is endemic.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:02PM (5 children)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:29PM
Deaths trail hospital admissions which trail positive tests. The effect of removing restrictions for a week can only currently be seen in tests - which is why you need to look at the historical pattern to see the reduction in hospital admissions and deaths. When you do that, glance at the Vax rates and see if you suspect a correlation
(Score: 2) by turgid on Monday July 26 2021, @09:11PM (3 children)
Surely the parent was being ironic? It's a link to the Daily Mail after all, and look at the crazy way (s)he wrote "listen to the experts,"
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:07PM (2 children)
The crazy camel case shows that they think listening to the experts is a bad thing, unless the linked article is anti-science propaganda.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:17AM
What expertize do social workers, midwives and dentists have on the subject? There was not "more than 1,200 scientists" signing the letter, that claim is wrong, scientifically!
(Score: 4, Informative) by turgid on Tuesday July 27 2021, @07:24AM
The linked article is anti-science, anti-intellectual propaganda from the Daily Mail, a known and persistent apologist for and proponent of the far right.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @11:46AM
Rand Paul, Anthony Fauci and the witch-hunt against science [wsws.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Troublesome_Inheritance [wikipedia.org]
No wonder the D team needs CRT, and no wonder NYT needs the 1619 Project. Out of the other side of their mouths, they're rehabilitating "scientific" racism.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Opportunist on Monday July 26 2021, @05:34PM
With the numbers looking more and more like this is over, we sure need some way to invigorate the pandemic. I want to stay in my home office, for fuck's sake, get infected, idiots!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @05:40PM (2 children)
According to the New York Times, our North-East Florida counties are on-par with the UK as a whole for COVID infection rates. Yeah, we're a world menace as well. Today they're shutting down a WalMart for an all-day disinfection, not saying why exactly, but the fact that local hospitals are just about at-capacity again is a clue.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:35AM (1 child)
A clue that hospitals are not in the business of leaving resources underutilized.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday July 28 2021, @03:58AM
By design, hospitals typically don't operate at capacity. Because what happens when there's a big emergency, not just covid, that requires a bunch of hospital beds? You'd get a bunch of unnecessary deaths every time some large accident happened, for example.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @05:53PM (58 children)
2 + 2 + 2 = what?
The COVID is just a SARS virus, with a specialized hook. The vax sensitizes your immune system to the hook. Any SARS with the hook should be targeted by your immune system, once sensitized to the hook. Any SARS without the hook is no longer a COVID.
So, what is the real story here? Is the vax ineffective? Or, at least a lot less effective than anticipated? The whole strategy of targeting that hook is failing?
What is that claim based on, exactly?
I think I'm seeing a bunch of experts who have wielded unprecedented influence for 1 1/2 years, feeling threatened with a loss of influence. It's time to whip up public sentiment and hysteria, so that the masses remain compliant.
Bottom line is, you can't keep the world locked down indefinitely. If the vax is so very effective, get everyone vaccinated that you can. Then, sit back, lighten up, and let nature take it's course. If the vax isn't all that effective - well - you gave it your best shot. It's still time to sit back, lighten up, and let nature take it's course. Mankind is almost certainly not going extinct because of COVIDS.
The survivors will remember all of us who died - for awhile.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @06:05PM (46 children)
The Trump and DeSantis (Florida) COVID strategy seems to have been all along to allow it to spread throughout the population to gain herd immunity and wear some kind of fig leaf about vulnerable populations being protected by "measures."
The complaint I have had about this strategy all along, beyond the hundreds of thousands of younger people living with after-effects of a serious COVID infection, not to mention the thousands dying, is the millions infected who are acting as a breeding pool for variants. Mutations are random, but the more times you roll the dice the sooner you hit that magic combination that's something you wish the world never saw during your lifetime.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:23PM (19 children)
Every emergent human virus in history followed an evolutionary curve towards higher transmission and lower pathogenicity. If anything, the selection pressure of lockdowns and masks could have strongly selected for the former but not the latter. Fortunately, signs are the delta variant follows the standard curve. This pandemic is coming to an end!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @06:37PM (9 children)
Confidently spoken AC! Sadly, the infection rates say otherwise.
Bravo for the bravado! The walk is random, the evolutionary pressure is toward lower pathogenicity where said pathogenicity could kill or otherwise impair the host from spreading the virus, but that doesn't mean that random walks through nasty lifelong after-effects which don't prevent the host from spreading the disease are suppressed in any way.
Much like the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis fungus' effects on ants, I think some of our leaders have been infected by COVID and are driving the population toward perpetuation of the pandemic.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:57PM
infection rates for the week are down [soylentnews.org]. Compared to previous waves, hospital admissions and deaths are down. To the crux of your argument, why are you discounting a mutational anomaly in any of the other common human viruses? Are you locking yourself in perpetual bs4 containment because influenza kills thousands every year?
By relaxing restrictions in summer the UK prevents overwhelming the social healthcare system in winter. None of the "experts' recall that was the only justification for restrictions to begin with.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:05PM (7 children)
Ebola, smallpox, and polio would love to get up close and personal and have a chat with you if you're unvaccinated. And AIDS, untreated, is a death sentence.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @07:20PM
The common cold seasonal flu has fluctuated for decades, sometimes hitting 50-60,000 deaths in the U.S. alone, other seasons having a much lower death rate closer to 10,000.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:50PM (2 children)
Polio is fecal-oral transmission, AIDS and Ebola are transmitted in body fluids. Protective hygiene measures most humans practice act as effective barriers to evolutionary selection, as were the sores smallpox caused.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @10:18PM (1 child)
Your claim is mostly right. But, polio isn't restricted to spreading by slobs who never wash, either. In centuries gone by, raw sewerage was often dumped into rivers, for people downstream to get their drinking/cooking water from.
People with pretty good hygiene could get polio easily.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:28AM
Good hygiene is in the eye of the evaluator. As for "most people" most people on this planet live in conditions which polio spreads easily, even to those who have the highest standards of hygiene for their local region.
Does AC not recall the time when Polio was a disease which struck most often and most deadly in the countries with the "best" hygiene on the planet?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @09:32PM (2 children)
The more ignorant the faithful, the wilder the rants. Stop running your mouth for a bit, and let the light of knowledge shine into your eyes. Maybe it'll hit a neuron or two in that empty expanse beyond the lenses... a faint hope I know, but still.
The poliovirus is merely the hyped strain among the huge group of enteroviruses that all have the same quirk; usually asymptomatic (95% for polio), in some small percent of cases (less than 1% for polio, mostly in adults) they are able to attack the nervous system and cause a flaccid paralysis. Eradicating (as if!) this one strain, definitely does a big, fat lot of nothing to all those other enteroviruses out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliovirus#Pathogenesis [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis#Paralytic_polio [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio-like_syndrome [wikipedia.org]
"Polioviruses and other enteroviruses isolated from faecal samples of patients with acute flaccid paralysis in Australia, 1996-2004"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16737480/ [nih.gov]
The when, how, and why polio outbreaks started to happen, is also a bit revealing:
https://uh.edu/engines/epi1527.htm [uh.edu]
And then a little bit about the polio vaccine.
2019: "More polio cases now caused by vaccine than by wild virus as 4 African countries report them"
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/polio-cases-now-caused-vaccine-wild-virus-67287290 [go.com]
2020: "Vaccine-derived polio spreads in Africa after defeat of wild virus"
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus [theguardian.com]
Corollary: forget the word "polio", the thing is very definition of a counter to your propaganda work.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Myfyr on Tuesday July 27 2021, @07:35AM
I would encourage people to actually read those last two articles. Although they don't quite show what the parent poster thinks they show, they are interesting. Specifically, they highlight the difference between the more expensive vaccine used in the west (injected; inactivated virus; impossible to transmit/mutate), and the cheaper vaccine used in africa (oral; contains weakened virus; easier to administer; safe for the recipient, but the live virus can spread to others and mutate).
So we have the following section from the last article, which is directly relevant to the whole discussion about England opening up:
While the situations aren't exactly equivalent, maybe it's not a good idea for England to open up too early?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @08:24AM
from your link
So, I'm not sure what you are arguing about, but it sounds like you think that polio was not a major problem? Because the 1% got paralyzed that means it is not a problem? 1% is 3,000,000 paralyzed in USA alone. The cost of that is many times more than the cost to vaccinate the entire world. Think about it.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday July 26 2021, @07:50PM (8 children)
Lower pathogenicity?
Smallpox was still murderous with 30% fatalities after more than two thousand years preying on us.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:58PM (7 children)
WTF? What is *your* explanation then for why it got named "SMALLpox" as opposed to the "great pox" which was *syphilis*?
Hard facts (as opposed to "oral histories") look like a much more recent virulence gain event, instead.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38243108 [bbc.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @09:48PM (6 children)
Increased virulence due to selection pressure for immune breakthrough is what the scientists appear concerned about. Why that's a UK issue when international borders remain open and vaccination rates are lower in other countries is a mystery.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:03PM (5 children)
Isn't the peddling of leaky COVID vaccines the thing they REALLY should be concerned about, then?
The poliovirus, for one notable example, not ate the civilization as of this morning, despite all the selection pressure. As opposed to Marek's disease in chicken.
"The vaccine's inability to prevent infection and transmission allows the spread of highly virulent strains among vaccinated chickens."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease#Prevention [wikipedia.org]
Vaccine's inability. NOT the chicken violating lockdown. :)
They are locked down in their cages for most of their lives. A fat lot of good it has done with regard to the disease.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:37PM (4 children)
No, "leaky" vaccines inoculate without reducing transmission. Covid vaccines reduce viral load [medrxiv.org] (4 fold reduction) and PCR positivity [oup.com] (~80% lower in asymptomatic individuals). I understand the concern but there's nothing "leaky" whichever vaccine study you look at - they all indicate reduced transmission.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:16PM (3 children)
No, you are factually wrong.
"administration of the vaccine does not prevent an infected bird from shedding the virus,[3] though it does reduce the amount of virus shed in the dander, hence reducing horizontal spread of the disease."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease#Prevention [wikipedia.org]
Therefore, the "reduce viral load and PCR positivity" are feel-good words about nothing. The point very much stands.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:56PM (2 children)
Inoculation is not immunization. From your own link (p3 of the "prevention" sub-section):
The studies I already cited show both transmission and infection are reduced by COVID vaccines, they are not "leaky".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @01:29AM (1 child)
Could you please have read the words I specifically quoted for you, before arguing that black is somehow white if you squint hard enough?
Let me repeat them here, in case they were too unnoticeable for your weary eyes the last time:
"it does reduce the amount of virus shed in the dander, hence reducing horizontal spread of the disease."
Also it's very interesting in what version of logic and the English language your "are reduced" can be taken to violate the stated condition you quoted just above that, which is "not inhibited"?
Summarizing: this excuse won't fly, is there another one?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @09:26AM
The vaccine prevents symptoms such as formation of ulcers and legions around feather follicles which is why there's less virus in the dander. Again, birds are not immunized by the vaccine, their immune systems do not fight the virus. They are inoculated by the vaccine so that symptoms of disease do not develop.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @06:31PM (10 children)
Uhhhmmmm, maybe. But let's remember that all the vaxxes were developed under Trump's administration. The Biden administration has developed nothing new, alright? In effect, Biden is resting on Trump's laurels.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Tork on Monday July 26 2021, @06:39PM
Ummm... k. Except the reluctance to get vaccinated is a partisan thing and the unvaccinated are bearing the brunt of it all right now.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @06:40PM
In spite of the Trump administration's slash and burn of science funding before the pandemic hit.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:10PM (6 children)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:16PM (2 children)
Far better to trigger mass hysteria with prophecies of doom, right?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Tork on Monday July 26 2021, @07:30PM
It says a lot that you cannot find a middle-ground with him. 🙄
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:01PM
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday July 26 2021, @09:10PM
Was that before the Sputnik Vaccine [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:42AM
No, Moderna is better and Russian's Sputnik V is the best at this point.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @11:19AM
Take your Trump vaccine, bigot! [healthfeedback.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @09:05AM
As I recall, the Covid issue wasn't just something that happened in the USA. I know you have no love for Trump, but try not to turn this into Trump-Biden thing. That's just lazy.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Monday July 26 2021, @06:42PM (11 children)
You could also rephrase that approach as adjusting policy in response to the risk profile of the virus. The "measures" you scare quoted are pretty well understood (physical isolation, sanitization and testing) and the extent of those actions can be adjusted based on the level of risk and the costs of implementation (in terms of lost productivity in addition to the direct cost). Yes, doing so means that there's some increased risk of mutations and some are impacted by the disease that may have otherwise avoided it. Although, those saved lives come at the cost of livelihoods and lives of others. Maybe fewer die of COVID, but many more suffer from hunger or get behind in rent and eventually lose their homes. People who have built their own business can't keep their doors open and shut down or have to take on multiple jobs working 60+ hrs a week just to make ends meet. Is that really a better outcome? How many should suffer in order to save one life? These are the decisions our policy makers are having to make. There is no perfect answer that avoids all loss, just some potential strategies to help minimize it that no one knows will work before implementing them. So, I'm glad there are different jurisdictions handling things in different ways that represent the will of the people in that area.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @06:56PM (2 children)
When did malnutrition become an issue in the U.S.? During shutdown, friends of ours rode around on schoolbuses distributing "free school lunch" to families in need.
I agree with your points about balance, although I question how "inevitable" some of your enumerated consequences are, or should be since they are mostly social constructs which can be modified.
As for "will of the people" I look forward to the actual 2022 Florida Governor's race, I wonder how skewed the current polls are which show him with a ~5% lead.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by slinches on Monday July 26 2021, @07:52PM (1 child)
Based on how many stories I'd heard about food banks being out of essentials and needing donations, I'm sure it's been at least higher than normal during the peak of the lockdowns. I'm glad your friends were willing to donate their time and get food to those who needed it.
I guess we will see. I don't live in Florida, so I have no experience with the political tenor of the population there, but generally most politicians will do what is most likely to get them reelected. However, I'm guessing what happens between now and election day 2022 will be more important to that outcome than just the pandemic related policies to date.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday July 26 2021, @09:27PM
As am I, however disappointed I might be that we can't (won't) structure the economy in such a way that these forms of "emergency food for hungry children" aren't needed in the first place.
Generally, that is true, however... our Governor has been acting more like a candidate trying to run for President by emulating the style and populist appeals of the 2016 Presidential race winner than a Governor of his state. Losing the race in Florida would seem to be bad political strategy to me, but, then, so would inciting a riot and sending a mob to storm the Capitol building - so clearly I don't think like everyone involved in this process.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday July 26 2021, @07:53PM (7 children)
Want to reopen businesses?
Australia and New Zealand showed the way.
Knock it down hard and have testing where you can catch single cases, then isolate when and where there's a need, and you can have pubs and theaters open otherwise.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:49PM (4 children)
MWAHAHAHAHA! *snicker*
https://nypost.com/2021/07/21/australia-under-lockdown-sees-worrying-jump-in-covid-19-cases/ [nypost.com]
Update your preaching please, unless you aim to be a laughingstock.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Mykl on Monday July 26 2021, @10:28PM (3 children)
Your link is 6 days old.
Since then Melbourne has managed to record 2 days in a row with no 'in the wild' cases (11 new cases yesterday who were in isolation for their entire infectious period). We're back on top of it and are on track to ease restrictions again in the next day or two.
It should also be noted that we're super worried about 140 cases in a day in Sydney - most US states would be delighted for a number that small.
By all means feel free to criticize our vaccine rollout, which has been terrible (we're in last place of OECD countries). But as-needed lockdowns have managed to keep our infections and deaths much, much lower than the rest of the world despite our dreadfully low vaccination rate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:05PM (1 child)
When in my nice little European country it is 37 cases in a day with no such thing as a lockdown, I can only look at you the super crazied with a mix of pity and apprehension; the latter for if the persistent raving madness is in some way contagious.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @02:34AM
37 cases probably puts you in Moldova or Slovenia, with 1/2 to 1/4 of NSW's 8 million population respectively. They also have around 260,000 cases each and 5000 to 6000 deaths. Australia as a whole with its 25.5 million population only has 33,000 cases and 920 deaths for the whole period. Super crazed it may be, but it works and then they can open up like nothing happened instead of watching dozens die a day like you did and we are.
(Score: 2) by boltronics on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:34AM
Yep I'm in Melbourne and back in the office today. Lockdown is over. Still some restrictions such as mask requirements and limits on gathering.
It's GNU/Linux dammit!
(Score: 2) by slinches on Monday July 26 2021, @10:16PM (1 child)
Quite, but you missed step 1. "be an island nation"
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:28PM
Not being "island nations" must be very worrying for Canada and Mexico.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:07PM (1 child)
There is a world of difference between herd immunity (from vaccination) and a mass infection event (from deliberate mismanagement).
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:43PM
Tell that to the Swedes, please. Seems the virus in their country failed to get the memo. ;)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ [worldometers.info]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:37PM
Everyone shall die. Yes, that includes you. No, locking yourself into a cell won't make you immortal. No, locking up everyone else won't do that either.
A "horrible disease" that is detectable in mere 10% of yearly crop of corpses killed by whatever, is disease of the minds that are incapable to disbelieve the media. Nothing else.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:21PM (2 children)
That's because your news sources paint you wonderful little pictures of guys in lab-coats trying to protect their yachts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @04:14AM (1 child)
Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under the omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-cs Lewis
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @03:17PM
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday July 26 2021, @07:21PM
2 dozen + 2 baker's dozen + 2 pounds = Someone else's headache.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday July 26 2021, @07:47PM (3 children)
There's more than one way to make a spike protein, and some of them are more or less sticky with vaccine-produced antibodies.
So far the vaccines have kept most of their effectiveness against all the variants. Whether that's guaranteed to go on, outside what I know.
It is hard to imagine a variant that could evade any possible vaccine and we can win arms races given how quick the turnaround of a new mRNA vaccine is.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 26 2021, @08:21PM
Something like that has crossed my mind. OK, so I'm curious - how many ways are there to make a spike protein that binds specifically to the human ACE2 receptor? Apparently, that isn't something that happens commonly in nature. A quick off-the-cuff search for pathogens that target the ACE2 gives me nothing except the COVID in the first 3 pages of results.
Do you know enough to narrow down the search with meaningful terms?
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:45PM (1 child)
BZZT WRONG!
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/israel-sees-decline-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-rate-due-to-delta-variant [straitstimes.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 27 2021, @08:58AM
So instead "BZZT WRONG!" you should have had "YOU'RE RIGHT!". Words clearly have different meanings on planet CT-woowoo.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday July 27 2021, @01:56AM
Or you can try to develop a better vaccine, you already have the productions lines ready.
Or you can invest in your hospitals capacity to avoid being overwhelmed and forced to ration the heath care capacity.
Or you can cancel Runaway spouting his false dilemmas, his poor imagination is a handicap but he's too dunning-kruegerd to see it. How about we suggest him take a vacation in the wilds of La Plata/c0lorado, I hear [soylentnews.org] the insect life there is marvelous this time of the year.
Or all the above and many more on top, nothing of which is or needs to be perfect by itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @07:32PM (1 child)
Dear SN,
You lost me at "vaccine resistant COVIDS (Score: 5, Insightful) -- by Runaway1956 (2926) ".
Good luck clearing out the infestation.
Ciao baby!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @09:00PM
That appears to be an admission that you are incapable of arguing your position against some dumb old senile fool. We probably won't miss you.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:17PM (4 children)
Yeah, and this is upstart's 49,995th
The other five are takyon's AMD stories
(Score: 4, Touché) by takyon on Monday July 26 2021, @06:18PM (1 child)
^This is the 1 millionth dumb AC comment.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:14PM
does that make it 160,088 smart comments overall, averaging 3.2 smart comments per submission?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:26PM (1 child)
If we had accepted aristarchus submissions, this milestone would have been reached long ago! Just saying.
--aristarchus
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @08:40PM
Unfortunately aristarchus submissions are so deficient in quality that not even the BDSM community will accept them.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:26PM (3 children)
"England’s Covid Unlocking is Threat to World, Say 1,200 Scientists"
Jeeze - if 1,200 scientists say it's true then it must be true....
(Pro Tip - it's just as easy to buy scientists as it is to buy politicians. It's even easier to pull "facts" out of your arses).
Stay scared of your own shadows, weaklings!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @07:20PM (2 children)
The anti-intellectualism is strong with this one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:22PM (1 child)
Chanting "Science!!!" at top of your voice does not magically make you an intellectual.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:13AM
But it could get you employed at Aperture Science!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Barenflimski on Monday July 26 2021, @06:29PM (14 children)
How long does everyone scream "COVID Variants! Lockdown!"?? We will have variants for the rest of time. Its fairly clear that thinking one is going to vaccinate the entire planet every time one needs a booster is not happening now, nor ever.
It seems that it is time to get to a more nuanced strategy. I have zero interest in "the public good" if you've got me locked in a cage for the rest of my life. I'll take my chances being vaxxed and living out my days until whenever my time is up. I'd rather die amongst friends than alone in my house.
How about this.... We set aside Tuesday and Saturday mornings for those that are, or think they are so immune-compromised that even us vaccinated folks are an issue. On Tuesday and Thursday mornings, us (98% or more of the population) pond scum can "lockdown" while that subset gets to feel safe and normal for four hours.
Honestly, how dare I think about anything nuanced and different? Clearly I'm a troll.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @06:34PM
" I'll take my chances being vaxxed and living out my days until whenever my time is up. I'd rather die amongst friends than alone in my house."
what a fucking slave. just be around friends and family anyways. be a fucking man.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday July 26 2021, @08:02PM (4 children)
One that I like is a Harvard epidemiologist's idea to saturate the country with rapid antigen test kits, so many that people can test themselves at home twice a week. That way an infected person will have spent at most a few days around others before finding out and isolating. Not a cure, but a risk reduction. The case for it is made at https://www.rapidtests.org/. [rapidtests.org]
Do enough risk reductions, masking and testing and tracing and vaccination and whatnot, and eventually you can push the virus into decline. They add up (well, they multiply, but you know what I mean).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:08PM (2 children)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @11:42PM (1 child)
The shots are shit and you would not want to bet your life on them.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/israel-sees-decline-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-rate-due-to-delta-variant [straitstimes.com]
Take 2 grams of vitamin C a day whenever you feel the symptoms of a viral infection, and neither The Dread COVID nor the recently-forgotten flu nor any other cold virus will be able to more than inconvenience you. Worked every time for me and my family for a number of years. Yes, worked against COVID too.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @05:58AM
Hope no one listens to that ^ jackass and gets themselves killed!
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Wednesday July 28 2021, @05:18AM
UK Prime Minister Johnson also set his eyes on this goal, calling it a "Moonshot" operation last year.
These rapid, "lateral flow" tests, have some downsides in their accuracy (false positives, false negatives), which means that any rapid positive needs to be backed-up by a confirmatory "proper" PCR test.
I've heard them described as a good test to take before doing something you'd be doing anyway (heading off to work), but a bad test to use to decide whether you can do something optional (attend a crowded concert).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Monday July 26 2021, @08:36PM (7 children)
If the COVIDiots would get their vaccine, we wouldn't need a lockdown.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @09:48PM (2 children)
Would you bet your house on that empty promise?
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/government-israel/holiday-lockdown-looms-with-israels-climbing-covid-numbers/2021/07/15/ [jewishpress.com]
A more realist solution: if the politicians and their pet propagandists would be held responsible for their lying promises and the damage they cause, the "pandemic" would fizzle in a week.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:10PM (1 child)
I hope you get correctly diagnosed someday, please post a journal about it when you finally get the help you need.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26 2021, @10:32PM
Isn't it pathetic how you guys try reenacting the USSR?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union [wikipedia.org]
The Soviet leaders promised communism, of all things. Your leaders promise only lockdowns, taxes, and prohibitions. And everyone is expected to happily fall in line, yes?
This farce is what happens when inbred morons elect more inbred morons to rule them.
(Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:19AM (3 children)
The (over)simple formula for herd immunity is that the immune people have to outnumber the non-immune people by a factor of at least the virus's reproductive number.
With a plausible estimate of delta's reproductive number around 6, with 100% of the population vaccinated we'd need the vaccines to be at least 83% effective at preventing transmission. That looks to be over-optimistic.
But you're right, we might not need lockdowns. There are lots of other interventions: masks, UV-C, HEPA filters, contact tracing, saturation testing like South Korea did, and so on. On top of a mostly vaccinated population that might be enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @12:50AM (1 child)
The vaccines reduce deaths, hospitalization and transmission. That is optimism. Covid-zero people are living in fantasy land.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 27 2021, @09:59PM
A fantasy land where most of the pubs and restaurants have been open lmost of the time. And very popular they have been too. Sounds like quite a pleasurable fantasy to me, not a hardship at all.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday July 27 2021, @05:51PM
Yes, there is no magic bullet, but it gets a lot worse when we have one hand tied behind our backs.