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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:03PM   Printer-friendly
from the I-*used*-to-be-indecisive-but-now-I'm-not-so-sure! dept.

The rise of never-ending job interviews:

Some companies are asking candidates to attend multiple interviews. But too many rounds could be a red flag – and even drive candidates away.

Every jobseeker welcomes an invitation to a second interview, because it signals a company's interest. A third interview might feel even more positive, or even be the precursor to an offer. But what happens when the process drags on to a fourth, fifth or sixth round – and it's not even clear how close you are to the 'final' interview?

That's a question Mike Conley, 49, grappled with earlier this year. The software engineering manager, based in Indiana, US, had been seeking a new role after losing his job during the pandemic. Five companies told him they had to delay hiring because of Covid-19 – but only after he'd done the final round of interviews. Another three invited him for several rounds of interviews until it was time to make an offer, at which point they decided to promote internally. Then, he made it through three rounds of interviews for a director-level position at a company he really liked, only to receive an email to co-ordinate six more rounds.

"When I responded to the internal HR, I even asked, 'Are these the final rounds?'," he says. "The answer I got back was: 'We don't know yet'."

That's when Conley made the tough decision to pull out. He shared his experience in a LinkedIn post that's touched a nerve with fellow job-seekers, who've viewed it 2.6 million times as of this writing. Conley says he's received about 4,000 public comments of support, and "four times that in private comments" from those who feared being tracked by current or prospective employers.

"So many people told me that, when they found out it was going to be six or seven interviews, they pulled out, so it was a bigger thing than I ever thought it was," he says. Of course, Conley never expected his post would go viral, "but I thought that for people who had been on similar paths, it was good to put it out there and let them know that they're not alone".

In fact, the internet is awash with similar stories jobseekers who've become frustrated with companies – particularly in the tech, finance and energy sectors – turning the interview process into a marathon. That poses the question: how many rounds of interviews should it take for an employer to reasonably assess a candidate before the process veers into excess? And how long should candidates stick it out if there's no clear information on exactly how many hoops they'll have to jump through to stay in the running for a role?

[...] "They're really worried about picking the right candidates, but in building in that worry, they're building a process that doesn't allow them to get to the candidates they thought they were going after," [Conley] says. "These complicated processes are actually making quality candidates go elsewhere."


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  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:13PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:13PM (#1163471)

    Imagine having to wait two weeks to find out if you got a work from home job while waiting two weeks to find out if it's safe to go be a human again.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:18PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:18PM (#1163476)

      I really wish I was in school during covid. Remote learning from home would have been my dream. I hated getting up early and school in general. To this day I still don't like working for a living and would much rather spend time on my hobbies or pursuits.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:39PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:39PM (#1163484)

        The sentiment that can never be expressed out loud with your name on it: tech is ok as a hobby, but it sucks as a job, and no, I don't "live and breathe" tech. I am a human, not a meatbag computer peripheral.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:42PM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:42PM (#1163485)

        You make it sound like most people wouldn't prefer their hobbies to work or that it's somehow connected to having to get up early for school.

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:54PM (6 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:54PM (#1163494)

          Most people don't have hobbies, because they aren't nerds.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:09PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:09PM (#1163502)

            If you have kids, your hobbies tend to fall by the wayside as well unless you can involve your kids in them.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Tork on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:37PM

            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:37PM (#1163532)

            Most people don't have hobbies, because they aren't nerds.

            I can think of one person who definitely isn't a nerd. Heh.

            --
            🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:47PM (3 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:47PM (#1163591) Journal

            Sounds like a dumb claim. Do you have any citations that most people don't have hobbies? Did you notice all the:

            bicyclists (and a variety of subcategories)
            dirt motorcycle enthusiasts
            street motorcycle riders
            scuba divers
            sky divers
            pilots
            ham radio
            coin and currency collectors
            stamp collectors
            joggers and runners
            hunters &
            hikers &
            campers
            survivalists
            competition shooters
            swimmers
            ball sports nuts of various types
            fighters (boxers, jiu jitusu, MMA, etc)
            rodeo
            gardeners
            automotive kooks
            tool kooks
            4-wheeler/ATV riders
            4-wheeler trucks & SUVs
            drone kooks
            computer kooks (hackers, etc)
            software maintainers
            painters (the people with faux canvas and easels)
            painters (urban graffiti types)
            photographers
            video kooks (youtubers who aren't commecialized, for example)

            Anyone can feel free to add to this list - it's probably endless.

            • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:37PM (2 children)

              by Gaaark (41) on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:37PM (#1163713) Journal

              You forgot the people who masturbate in mom's basement: seems like a lot of people here have that hobby. :)

              --
              --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @05:32PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @05:32PM (#1164109)

                You forgot the people who masturbate in mom's basement: seems like a lot of people here have that hobby. :)

                Speak for yourself. I own my basement you inconsiderate clod!

              • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday August 06 2021, @10:22PM

                by krishnoid (1156) on Friday August 06 2021, @10:22PM (#1164198)

                Yeah, but .... [fowllanguagecomics.com] See need, create industry, profit?

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:30PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:30PM (#1163530)
          One of the problems of working at your hobby is what do you do as a hobby if you burn out? A good way to ruin a hobby is to do it for a living. Most of us have done it, and the tech environment is so toxic that it can't help but diminish the fun.

          And then you get assholes who are doing make-work like scheduling multiple interviews because if they don't, they can't justify THEIR job. 3 interviews max, then "Sorry, you obviously don't have the ability to set clear requirements and goals in hiring, I can only imagine how much of a clusterfuck your project management is."

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:29PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:29PM (#1163549)

            It's possible all the d-bags can't co-ordinate themselves to be in the same place at the same time. No problem, they can have you show up multiple times - externalize that cost, everyone gets their own interview. All egos satisfied.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @02:51AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @02:51AM (#1163849)
              "all the douchebags" need to learn to delegate so you don't have 10 people who have to interview a candidate before a decision can be made. IOW, they need to learn to do a better job of doing their job: not make-work. Poor management and lack of trust at the hiring stage is a symptom of greater problems.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:33PM (#1164065)

            One of the problems of working at your hobby is what do you do as a hobby if you burn out?

            Find a new hobby?

      • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:02PM

        by Opportunist (5545) on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:02PM (#1163499)

        I've been living that dream for a year now. Work, not school, granted, but nothing is perfect.

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by epitaxial on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:14PM (3 children)

    by epitaxial (3165) on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:14PM (#1163473)

    I've had interviews that took an entire day because you spend an hour talking to each department head. They even sent me an itinerary beforehand. The company with the full day interview ultimately didn't hire me but asked me to come back again a year later for the same position. I told them my vacation time was limited and could only spare a few hours. They're still advertising the job on and off a few years later.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:46PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:46PM (#1163489)

      I made the mistake of going out of town on a job interview one time. I got there and the guy giving the interview wouldn't even look me in the eye. Then later in the evening they couldn't be bothered to let me know that I hadn't gotten the job. Sadly, this level of professionalism is only slightly lower than normal where nobody ever gets back to you about whether or not a job application is even still live. And employers wonder why nobody is super enthusiastic about applying to some of these positions.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:59PM (#1163497)

        How much would it cost the company to send a form letter email saying you didn't get the job. Jesus, some basic courtesy. This is why I don't count on anything until I have the written job offer. They could've made up their minds days ago that you would never be hired and they would just leaving you hanging.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:07PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:07PM (#1163546)

      The all day interview has been the norm for me since I had 10+ years of experience. Better than 50% of those all day interviews translated into offers, and I've accepted more than 50% of those offers. The shorter 30 minute to 2 hour interviews tended to not translate into offers, even when overnight travel was involved - regardless of who paid for the travel. I guess that first job (which ran for 12 years) did have a 1 hour interview, the only other short interview jobs I've had were when the company and I already knew each other well and the interview was just an establishment of the scope / expectations of the position for both sides. I suppose you could say there were "exploratory" 15-30 minute interviews before the overnight travel / all day interviews, but they seem to hardly count any more than the resume screening process.

      What's scary today is the remote interview - very much lower investment for both sides, I'm afraid that it will lead to interview inflation - kind of like documentation ballooned when it went electronic instead of printed on paper and filed. When a company paid for overnight travel just to get an interview, you had a sense that they weren't likely wasting your time. Today with a garbly audio voice call?

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:19PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:19PM (#1163477)

    If it's HR related and it's patently stupid, there's a pink-hair behind it.

    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:06PM

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:06PM (#1163518) Journal

      Blame is rarely very useful, and your attitude is less useful than most. There are worse, of course.

      Note that you *may* occasionally be correct. Even so it's not useful.

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:45PM (#1163535)

      Trump lost. Get over it. You native english-speaking christian heterosexual white male conservatards had your chance four years ago. You wasted it on this trainwreck shitstain of a man. Now crawl back under your rock where you belong.

    • (Score: 2) by OrugTor on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:27PM (1 child)

      by OrugTor (5147) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:27PM (#1163548)
      It is HR-related, it is patently stupid but no need to blame your favorite hate target, HR itself has been responsible for this kind of BS since whenever.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:53PM (#1163593)

        Well, TBH, HR and pink hairs just sorta go together.

        Who else misses the days when there was a Personnel Manager(s) who were mostly assholes but were mostly honest.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:45PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:45PM (#1163589) Journal

      Raise your hand if you want to spend you days dealing with people's dopey complaints about their manager, their fucked up health insurance claims and whatever other people-problems they get to deal with all day.

      No? No takers? We would all prefer SOMEONE ELSE do that stuff?

      Hmmm.....sounds like we like the HR department.....

  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:34PM (6 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:34PM (#1163482) Journal

    You want to stay far from them. They will be liabilities, not only to the company, but to all subordinates working for them. Three interviews max, if they ask for more, just walk away.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:52PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:52PM (#1163493)

      I say a brief phone screen (does this guy even want the job, are his skills remotely a match, describe the job duties and environment), followed by a max of 2 real interviews should be the absolute limit. If a company can't know enough about you after two interviews, they are fucking clueless.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:59PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:59PM (#1163559)

        It's basically impossible to know about someone in N interviews for any N. It takes actually working with them -- could be 1 month or 1 year. Not to mention, being part of the home team for endless interviews is also a boring chore. Nobody knows what they're doing so it's just painful social awkwardness for the most part scraping the barrel for things to talk about.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:08PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:08PM (#1163628)

          If what you say is true, then no interviews should be held at all. You should just hire the first person who applies. Are you seriously saying this is true? I would say that interviews DO tell you about a candidate, but you quickly reach a limit in how much info you can glean. This is why I say a quick phone screen (to quickly weed out obvious mismatches) followed by a max of two interviews is best for most jobs.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:09PM (2 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:09PM (#1163547)

      My second job interviewed for the position for 9 months before hiring me. It's hard to say if I would have gotten the job if I had been their first interview, but by the time 9 months and 12 candidates had gone through before me, they decided just about instantly to hire me.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Friday August 06 2021, @01:54AM (1 child)

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Friday August 06 2021, @01:54AM (#1163815)

        my goal is to find the company that got worn down (thanks for that effort, btw) and is now ready to hire someone realistic ;)

        its not stealing. stop saying that. its not.

        lol

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 06 2021, @11:14AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday August 06 2021, @11:14AM (#1164001)

          It's like hanging out in a casino watching the slots - when one has been pumped full and everybody else has given up on it, it's time...

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:44PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:44PM (#1163487)

    Reading the summary and the article, the context of what "interview rounds" means is important. For example, in pre-Covid, a standard practice was a phone screen, followed by an on-site loop of 4-6 interviews. So, two days. Or, two rounds. And between 5-7 interviews. Post-covid, because of WFH, each "interview" is scheduled separately, and depending on the candidate's schedule can be over several days. So, that same 5-7 interviews previously, could be over 5-7 days. Or longer depending on availability. Which works for many candidates as they don't want to take a full day off, and would rather spend a couple hours a day over a few days to meet with everyone.

    Now, if this is companies who schedule and do an interview, and then come back and scheduled another one. And then come back and schedule another one. Yes, that gets irritating fast. Google, I'm look at you - you've been known to do this a lot, even pre-Covid.

    How much of this is flexibility given WFH for everyone involved? And how much of this is companies being idiots and not being able to make decisions?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:10PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:10PM (#1163503)

      I have never had more than two interviews (i.e. meetings talking to people) and two tests (a personality test like Briggs-Meyers and an IQ test).

      Anything more than three interview would be a no-no from me!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @02:56AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @02:56AM (#1163852)
        Never did more than 1 interview, and only did the IQ test after being hired as a pro forma (and beat out all my future co-workers). But I'm the exception.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:46PM (6 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:46PM (#1163488)

    do it to identify those desperate for a job who can't find elsewhere and are willing to jump through the hoops. Those are the easiest employees to shaft later on.

    • (Score: 2) by gznork26 on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:20PM (4 children)

      by gznork26 (1159) on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:20PM (#1163506) Homepage Journal

      Is it possible that this tactic filters out both those not experienced or confident enough to make it through several interviews, AND people who would be most expensive because they mnow their worth, leaving the middle ground desperate and controllable people?

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:50PM

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:50PM (#1163514)

        Yes, but when the number and length of the interviews becomes ridiculous and surreal, those that stick with the process mark themselves are suckers.

        I've had quite a few job interviews like that. At the third pointless interview, I'd point-blank tell them to get lost, that my time was valuable and they were wasting it, even if I had nothing else lined up. At least in one case, one company called me back and apologized for the trouble, and finally offered me the job (which, to be honest, I really wanted, but I made damn sure not to tell them that) and I stayed there for 7 years :)

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:38PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:38PM (#1163533)
        First class people hire first class people. Second class people hire third class people. It's a false econony to pay for a dozen 3rd raters when you really need 3-4 top flight people. But if you're a lett then confident and competent manager, having clueless people working for you is okay because they won't intimidate you, challenge your bullshit, and give you a continuous supply of cannon fodder to fire to CYA.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:17PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:17PM (#1163568)

          All of that is nonsense because 1st class, 2nd class and 3rd class are totally dependent on task at hand and (realistically) who you are working with. Team spirit and importance of the task can turn even your 3rd class "loser" into an absolute gem. Meanwhile the 1st class heros are pontificating about how they did this or that or won some prize or some bullshit.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:58PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:58PM (#1163596) Journal

            Meanwhile the 1st class heros are pontificating about how they did this or that or won some prize or some bullshit.

            Actually, no. First class people are constantly bragging on their people - as individuals, and as a team. The pontificator you mention is fourth or fifth class, at best. Or - - - did I just miss the sarcasm?

    • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Friday August 06 2021, @01:57AM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Friday August 06 2021, @01:57AM (#1163817)

      dont kid yourself, everyone is easy to shaft (and will be) later on.

      what, you think you're special? right.

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by SomeGuy on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:51PM (18 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:51PM (#1163491)

    This is part of the epidemic of "fake jobs".

    If you have that many rounds of interviews, then they are interviewing just to keep themselves busy.

    They are also likely fishing for the absolute "perfect" person who has proven experience in CognalExpl Cloud Doop, MSJ Drek Enerprise, Vaguatronics, Asura Obscura, their one of a kind internal FCluster software, and 9000 years of experience with Microsoft Windows 13. Not to mention Merpederp Professional certification that costs only $100,000. And no, you are not allowed to learn anything on the job. All the while, the project they are supposedly hiring for is just spinning its wheels keeping people busy with pre-pre-pre-pre planning meetings, and all of this will eventually be used as documentation to "prove" they can not find a qualified individual in the US so they can hire some drooling Indian who only knows how to lie on their resume.

    Unless your real expertise lies in buzzword bulshitting, corporate politics, or sitting on manager's dicks, you probably don't want to work there.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:56PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @01:56PM (#1163495)

      Agreed. If you have had 3 interviews and they want another, tell them to fuck off. This is a sign of how they will treat you later.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:40PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:40PM (#1163513)

      wow, i have been out of the loop, have not heard about any of those products, are these opensource tools?

      would make a great first interview question:

      what are the main drawbacks to Asura Obscura v11.3?

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DECbot on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:53PM

        by DECbot (832) on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:53PM (#1163538) Journal

        Main drawbacks? lack of documentation and available source code.

        --
        cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:01PM (12 children)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:01PM (#1163517)

      9000 years of experience

      You jest, but get a load of this: one day a workmate and I spotted a funny job offer on some website. The company wanted an engineer with 5 years experience in C#, when C# had only been released 2 years before.

      He applied for shits and giiggles, and got an interview. He actually went and strung them along, telling them he actually had 8 years of experience, but he didn't want to boast because he had taught himself on MSDOS or some similar sillyness. They swallowed his bullshift line, hook and sinker and offered him the job right there and then. That's when he got up, told them to get lost, that he'd never work for such a clueless company and he left. I wish I had been there to see their faces :)

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by HiThere on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:15PM (9 children)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:15PM (#1163520) Journal

        Those "5 years of experience" ads also came out shortly after Java was initially released. They probably also come out for things I don't notice. I think someone in HR just copies boilerplate, and you can't really expect them to know what they're talking about, even if it *is* supposed to be their job. Probably the tech management is not nearly as clueless (about tech). I attribute this to MBA schools that teach that a good manager doesn't need to know anything about what they're managing. A lot of managers seem to end up believing this...and so it affects their other policies.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:39PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:39PM (#1163550)

          I assume it's something like a project manager tells HR they need a mid-level programmer for a Java project. HR then checks their tables and sees that a mid-level programmer should have 5 years of experience. Thus the job ad asks for "5 years of Java". All completely reasonable yet still completly wrong.

          • (Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:47PM (2 children)

            by sjames (2882) on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:47PM (#1163646) Journal

            Of course, they're missing the fundamental truth that experience programming in other languages is transferable. If HR doesn't know that, then they suck at their job.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:03AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:03AM (#1163857)

              Of course, they're missing the fundamental truth that experience programming in other languages is transferable.

              Just keep telling yourself that. java programmers with no experience with proper memory management make shit c programmers, whereas decent c programmers can more easily adapt to a language like java with its training wheels.

              • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday August 06 2021, @04:08AM

                by sjames (2882) on Friday August 06 2021, @04:08AM (#1163883) Journal

                First, I was talking about experience in other languages (most often C at that time) being transferable TO Java. Do try to keep up. Second, even though a Java programmer moving to C would have some learning curve WRT freeing the mallocs, they would still pick it up faster than a beginning programmer. So on average, the person with 5 years of Java followed by a year of C will do better than someone with just a year of C.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:53PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:53PM (#1163556)

          Both the absurd reality that managers can last 10+ years with literally no functional clue about their own jobs.

          But also that if you are a SMART AND EFFECTIVE manager, you don't need to know much/anything about the job... *IF* you can assess your subordinates sufficiently to get the first few skilled and honest ones, and then DELEGATE THE REQUIRED INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO THEM. If you can do this, you focus on the people skill and project management side of things while having those who know the minutae of field providing you what you need to know to help them maximize their productivity.

          Unfortunately management and employees have had too large of a divide since the MBAs wormed their way in and set themselves up as a corporate aristocrat class, leading to the current issue of management that is both personally uneducated in the field, and unable to effectively delegate to subordinates who have the skills necessary to make the project/company success in spite of themselves.

          Good leaders delegate, bad leaders micromanage.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:24PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:24PM (#1163572)

            > Good leaders delegate, bad leaders micromanage.

            BZZZT. Bullshit.

            Bad leaders talk about what good manager/bad managers do, while trying to shine the glory on themselves. Everything else is bullshit.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:02PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:02PM (#1163597)

              You sound like a bitter micromanager trying to make excuses for failure.

        • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday August 06 2021, @04:55AM

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday August 06 2021, @04:55AM (#1163916) Journal

          It gets really bad when the year is right there in the name. How lazy does a company have to be, to demand 10 years of experience with Windows Server 2016, and refuses to count experience with Windows Server 2012? Even an HR weenie should spot that one.

          When a potential employer keeps erecting more hoops to jump through, and has already screened out the frauds, they probably have something like 100 candidates all trying for 1 position, and have to winnow the numbers somehow. I've been told bull that a particular experience doesn't count, because it was in a school. Teaching a C/C++ programming class at a uni somehow doesn't count as experience in C/C++. But if it's one of those professional seminars, maybe it does count. Such a display of nitpicking, rank carelessness, and dithering is a giant red flag.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 06 2021, @11:17AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday August 06 2021, @11:17AM (#1164004)

          There's another way to interpret: Java programmer with 5 years experience. Parse that: "Java programmer" + "programmer with 5 years experience." Classified ads were costly per word.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @08:20PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @08:20PM (#1163666)

        I've seen job posts where they wanted more years of experience in software that hasn't been around half that long so, no, I don't think the original comment is really joking. I've seen it quite a few times though after it's been blasted on various Youtube channels enough times I think the trend has mostly (though probably not entirely) been corrected.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @08:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @08:27PM (#1163671)

          (oh, and I've seen these job postings posted by some pretty big prominent companies as well, not just smaller ones. Then they can turn around and say that no one meets the qualifications. It's hilarious. As I'm reading through the comments the reason is probably as stated by others. Some department wants a moderately experienced programmer in x language or user in x software. HR doesn't know what this language or software is but their tables says that this level of experience requires x number of years. So they post it and the language or software hasn't even been around that long).

    • (Score: 2) by Lester on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:06PM

      by Lester (6231) on Thursday August 05 2021, @04:06PM (#1163545) Journal

      I read an offer that demanded 8 years of experience in the language Swift, a language that back then had been created three years ago.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:16PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:16PM (#1163602)

      So many "fake jobs" out there. Required to interview N candidates even though they know who they are going to hire already. Advertising a high level position, but actually hiring more junior positions instead. I even had one guy ask me to drive 400+ miles to interview because he wanted to ask me how/why I stayed with my first job for 12 years, but, hey, I got a chicken sandwich lunch out of the deal...

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Opportunist on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:04PM

    by Opportunist (5545) on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:04PM (#1163500)

    Seriously, if they want more than 2-3 interviews from you, run as far and fast as you can. Very obviously their managers don't do their job and instead squander their time in useless meetings, like these interviews, so they can pretend to work while you're supposed to do their work.

    I need a manager that does his job. I don't have time to do it. I have my job to do.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:20PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:20PM (#1163505)

    Sound like a complete waste of money: lost shareholders profit.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Tork on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:43PM (8 children)

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @03:43PM (#1163534)
      The whole idea is to keep your employees nice and swappable so none of them have the power to do things like say: "I ain't working on your facial recognition project."
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:21PM (7 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @06:21PM (#1163606)

        McDonalds pioneered the "fungible employee" business model. Sure, some guys can flip burgers 3x better than others, but if you're going to have a successful franchise you need a business model that works with the lowest common denominator employee - and as a bonus you never have to give any of them raises, if they're better than you need you just let them quit and replace them with the next on queue at the unemployment office.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:23PM (5 children)

          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:23PM (#1163632)
          You're not wrong but I did want to mention that's less about employee swapability and more about consistency. McDonalds wants you to have the same burger at every location, the time from getting from the grill to the heating cabinet to the bun is tightly controlled. Those numbers they leave in the bin correspond to a nearby clock to let the grill know when it's time to toss the unused product. Although I cannot really think of a realistic scenario where 'flipping the burger' too fast would affect those times I have seen where employees stepping outside the script (like smashing the grease out of the meat while it's cooking) cause food quality/consistency to suffer. That time the meat sits in the cabinet actually matters because the meat's not done cooking. I'll be honest, I was surprised at how well the process was laid out. EVERYTHING that is plugged into a wall has a countdown timer on it, not like you're using appliances from a department store.

          Having said that, you are right that employee training is all about anybody being cast to operate anywhere in the store. I'm just being a little nitpicky. (sorry!) They don't teach you how to make a burger they teach you how to read a chart to assemble whatever the current recipe is. So when, say, the McRib comes along you don't get pulled aside and trained you're just directed to look at an Ikea-esque graphic on the wall. You can easily be replaced at McDonalds but you can also easily find someone to cover your shift.

          Oh and you CAN get ahead by being better than other employees, unless something happened in the last decade or two every employee has their own individual rate. If certain managers like working with you you'll get better access to hours you'd prefer and you can get raises that way. You're not gonna pull ahead by a LOT tho because the reason that works is every minute after-hours it takes to close is counting against their margins. If you being there means closing happens an hour earlier, well let's just say they'll respond to that if it makes sense to and you can score a raise. Unfortunately the rates are low enough that you're not gonna win big, here.
          --
          🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:45PM (4 children)

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:45PM (#1163643)

            Yeah, we stopped in a McDonalds in Dublin GA this past Monday (1st McDonalds we've been in in about 5 years), and ordered 4 sundaes to go. Just before us was a pretty standard burgers and fries order and then nothing... 15 minutes later, we get our sundaes and the burgers and fries looks like it's almost ready. At least a dozen worker bees visible in the kitchen area... how that took 15 minutes is beyond all comprehension.

            For contrast, there's a Wendy's on US 27 around lake Okeechobee, I've been in the drivethrough there with 8 cars in line in front of me and they move through like clockwork: 20 seconds per customer and your order is hot, fresh and ready to hand to you when you get to the window. The big red timer clock on their wall actually means something.

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
            • (Score: 2) by stormreaver on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:18PM (1 child)

              by stormreaver (5101) on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:18PM (#1163698)

              I would rather work at that McDonald's than that Wendy's because the Wendy's drives their employees like robots. I'd also rather eat at that Wendy's than that McDonald's for the same reason.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:28PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:28PM (#1163704)

                Do you have any personal knowledge of what it's like to work there, or are you just replying to the grandparent comment where he states the Wendy's workers hustled? Personally, I would rather patronize a joint where the workers actually worked. that business deserves to get rewarded with money. More money flowing into the business means more money available to pay workers as well. Snark if you want, but that's generally how it works.

            • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:40PM (1 child)

              by Freeman (732) on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:40PM (#1163716) Journal

              That seems like standard per customer service for Jack in the Box. Only time or two I've gone to our local one, it's taken a good 10 minutes just for my order of Jalapeno Poppers.

              --
              Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
              • (Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 05 2021, @10:26PM

                by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 05 2021, @10:26PM (#1163743)

                At least poppers need to be cooked for some time... sundaes literally take 15 seconds a piece to dispense.

                --
                🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07 2021, @04:50AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07 2021, @04:50AM (#1164302)

          Wrong. Armies pioneered the fungible employee model.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:21PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @02:21PM (#1163508)

    If it was a hot market they'd snatch up people before some other company did.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:30PM (#1163576)

      Unless there is a "long game" in process. The long game is to lower the average wages of all employees. If most companies do this (even subconsciously) then the employees have nowhere to go and have to accept whatever is on offer. We have been here before as a society - the bourgoise and the proletariat. Don't get frightened by the boogie word! Just historical fact - if you are a lowly worker, historically speaking nobody hiring you gives a shit if you live or die. A living wage, decent conditions were won not granted.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:25PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:25PM (#1163633)

      If it was a hot market they'd snatch up people before some other company did.

      Eh... only if the work is available. If you're dependent on clients/customers you can't really hire until they're ready to start paying you for work. This is why you can have lotsa companies demanding particular types of workers BUT not ready to hire them yet. I actually wonder how many projects are falling through because they CAN'T secure those workers.

      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:04PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:04PM (#1163563)

    I finally told Google I wasn't interested in interviewing with them until they fixed their process. This was after multiple occasions of their ridiculous loops taking so long that I'd already taken other positions before they could even finish finding new people for me to talk to. Not just once, but multiple times over the course of a decade. And then six months or so after that, they called me again, and I had to explain to them what the problem was. Again.

    That time it seemed to have stuck, but I've had other companies try to pull the same crap, and I just moved on to other people with an interest in actually employing people.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:33PM (#1163578)

      That's why your next interviews will be with an AI. Dozens of interviews. Thank you for training the AI.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by darkfeline on Thursday August 05 2021, @11:52PM (2 children)

      by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday August 05 2021, @11:52PM (#1163780) Homepage

      Google takes the stance that it's better to turn away many good people if it means not hiring one bad person. A bad hire can do an unimaginable amount of damage. If they need N interviews until they're certain and that means many good people will get frustrated from the number of interviews, so be it.

      I don't know whether the equation balances out to a net positive, but as a company obsessed with data I imagine they have some idea about what they're doing.

      --
      Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:12AM (#1163862)
        That bad hire? If you empower your employees, they'll takecare of getting rid of that problem hire in short order. Competent teams really really know how to make life impossible for an asshole that's making evertlook incompetent. They recognize the difference between those who just need mentoring and coasters.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @07:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @07:32PM (#1164153)

        I would lend that more credence if their actual publically reported experience on employee relations weren't such a jaw-dropping, eye-rolling shitshow.

        Google has the HR equivalent of security theatre. "We try so hard we can't fathom that we could possibly have done any better! What, you want us to spin our wheels EVEN LONGER?"

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by looorg on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:14PM (3 children)

    by looorg (578) on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:14PM (#1163566)

    I have not had many of these endless job interviews. I have had one. It was for a job I really wanted (at the time), so I was willing to put up with a fair amount of crap. But everything has their limit. The interviewing, phone calls and various online tests had gone on for about four-five months. I had started to grumble a bit over how long the process was, there was always one more test or one more interview.

    What really took the price was the last interview where some recruitment psychologists tells me how bad I am, wondering why I even applied for this position and how much better all other applicants was compared to me. Either this was some weird test to see how one would react to bad news or this was a one giant miscalculation on their part as I had already been shown the test results previously and told I was one of the top candidates as far as test results was concerned.

    I guess I snapped there, there was a fair amount of profanity involved on my part. I questioned how stupid they had to be if it took them this long to figure out that everyone else was better then me and I wondered why the hell they had begged me to come to this interview just days ago. It went on for a bit and then I told him this process was over, stood up and asked to be escorted from the building. It was one of those places. We said nothing as we walked out and I did not say goodbye or shake his hand as I left the building. I was furious.

    On the train ride home I wrote a fairly long and extensive letter, by hand, and mailed to them as I stepped off the train. I shared my experience regarding their recruitment process, told them I would never apply to them again and I would never recommend them to anyone ever. A promise that I still hold to today and this was almost 20 years ago now.

    It took about a week and the recruitment psychologist called me back and apologized and groveled a bit, I'm sure it was very insincere and he was forced to by someone higher up the food chain. They did want me to come back again and take more tests and I just recall asking why if I was the worst candidate and then I hung up and never heard from them again.

    These days anything more then two-three interviews and I decline the position. I quite reluctantly will take some online tests, mostly cause I believe they are complete bullshit and they don't actually tell them anything. I strongly suspect that a lot of these endless interviews are just there to train the HR department at your expense.

    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday August 06 2021, @05:07AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Friday August 06 2021, @05:07AM (#1163923) Homepage

      ..or, as I cynically opine below, to keep the HR department employed; after all, most of them are otherwise unemployable, so they have to look necessary.

      Someone elsewhere grumbled that HR departments are a jobs program for people with degrees in Useless Studies.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 2) by Username on Friday August 06 2021, @10:22AM

      by Username (4557) on Friday August 06 2021, @10:22AM (#1163980)

      Yeah, I've had one company make me drive to another city to attend some 4th round interview that was a psychiatric evaluation entailing iq and emotional response tests. Scantrons and everythings. After the first hour I just started making shit up since it started to seem like some kind of study disguised as a job offer. How do they know I don't talk to satan at 7pm every other saturday? Or the horrors of indiscriminately dropping loads of bombs from helicopter onto asians in rice fields. Anyway, I didn't get the "job."

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 06 2021, @11:32AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday August 06 2021, @11:32AM (#1164007)

      What really took the price was the last interview where some recruitment psychologists tells me how bad I am, wondering why I even applied for this position and how much better all other applicants was compared to me. Either this was some weird test to see how one would react to bad news or this was a one giant miscalculation on their part as I had already been shown the test results previously and told I was one of the top candidates as far as test results was concerned.

      That reminds me of what I've filed away in my experience as "the Manhattan employment agent method." 1988 I did a few weeks of job hunting while visiting a friend who lived in Manhattan. All the ads in the paper were from employment agencies, not actual employers, even though the ads were written as if they were direct placement for a specific job. The agencies were collecting resumes to have on hand in case an opening came up. Several of the agents gave me that "you're just a piece of shit, this degree means nothing, you have no experience, you're worthless" bullshit line, although they also did tend to dispense a crumb or two of genuinely valuable advice/tips on the way out the door. Then there was the one with the glass table, I had just gotten my shoes shined, had a fresh $50 in-vogue (ridiculous looking) haircut, was wearing my navy blue graduation suit with a $2 bright red tie from a street vendor. She glanced at my resume, stared at my shoes for a moment and then came out with "oh, you are so Kidder Peabody... you do computers, right? I'll get you an interview with Kidder Peabody, I'm sure they'll take you." I had barely said two words, and she was going to get me a job in IT with an investment banking firm based on my appearance. Those hard-ass "you are worthless" agencies also stared at my shoes, but I hadn't gotten them shined yet.

      Oh, there was one direct-hire job, Kepco power supplies in Flushing, wanted someone with "database experience" in some specific package. I showed them my resume, explained how it demonstrates that I am a fast learner of software technology and should be "up to speed" with their database needs in a matter of a week or less. They declined, didn't want to "risk" hiring somebody for $12/hr when they had to learn something on the job. Called them back 3 weeks later, they still hadn't filled the position... must not have needed that person very much, I certainly could have had their database project going within less than 3 weeks - not that I wanted to try to live in NYC on $12/hr.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by istartedi on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:48PM (1 child)

    by istartedi (123) on Thursday August 05 2021, @05:48PM (#1163592) Journal

    Do they ask you to do a lot of white-board coding of unusual problems? Just to make sure you aren't being exploited, you should start using unusual variable names in your solutions. If possible, code in security flaws that would allow you to pass the test, yet not be caught by the interviewer. Tell friends in your area who might get hired to BOLO for the unusual variable name in the company's repository.

    If these extended interviews are just a way to get their software written for free, make them pay in the long run.

    Ha-ha, only serious.

    --
    Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:14AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:14AM (#1163864)
      Show them code you've already written. You want new code? Pay me. I'm a mercenary for hire, not a slave begging for a break.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:01PM (3 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Thursday August 05 2021, @07:01PM (#1163627)

    These companies don't see hiring as a 2-way negotiation, they see it as 1 side begging for a break. So of course they make people jump through as many hoops as possible to make sure they are willing to grovel for it.

    That's coupled with the fact that there's usually little if any penalty for not hiring anybody and just making your existing staff work harder instead. But with a pool of applicants, you can also tell those existing staff that they can be replaced easily if need be.

    I've always thought Friedrich Engels was onto something with his concept of the "reserve army of labor": The pool of long-term unemployed people whose desperation for money pushes them to be willing to accept low pay, dangerous working conditions, lousy hours, and numerous humiliations to get a job. And the threat of becoming one of those desperate people convinces those who have jobs to also be willing to accept all that mistreatment.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:33PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05 2021, @09:33PM (#1163709)

      Yes, that's called high unemployment. When unemployment figures are low, the advantage goes to the employee. Why do you think the politicians until TRUMP (and after him) have done NOTHING about out of control legal and illegal especially immigration? They've got to keep thar hungry labor pool UP. Trump stopped the massive influx of immigrants and unemployment FELL for workers at the lower end of the payscale. Simple supply and demand. Keeping the labor pool up is the same reason for the scandalous H1-B visa program, only that is for white-collar jobs.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:21AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @03:21AM (#1163866)
        High unemployment? Where? Even traditional wage slave restaurant jobs are offering higher wages and hiring bonuses as they struggle to reopen . Too many people found new jobs at higher pay and are only willing to help out their former employer with a few shits at higher pay than their new job pays to ease the tax penalty. Or outright refusing since they can probably picknup extra hours at their new jobs.

        Employers are complaining they can't find people to hire, but they don't want to pay what the market now demands. Because supply and demand is now in the workers favour, and if tou won't pay, you'll close, and your competitor who will pay more is making money off your former clients to help fill the extra wage costs, so they are good.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07 2021, @04:59AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 07 2021, @04:59AM (#1164304)

          Even traditional wage slave restaurant jobs are offering higher wages and hiring bonuses as they struggle to reopen

          Maybe that's because it was below a living wage, before. Around here, they're still having problems hiring. Why? Because their new, higher wages... are still lower than the municipal estimated living wage.

          PS - the group that estimates that living wage is packed with pro-business interests. It's not an inflated number.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Mykl on Thursday August 05 2021, @10:54PM (1 child)

    by Mykl (1112) on Thursday August 05 2021, @10:54PM (#1163761)

    My role involves a lot of hiring - I interview about 2-3 people every week (Developers, Testers, Data & Analytics specialists, Architects) to join our company. I'm the final interview.

    The market for _good_ candidates is hot, and you can't afford to muck around. Our turnaround is less than a week.

    • Candidate applies - Recruitment Manager reviews CV to see if it looks potentially suitable. If it's borderline, they call me and ask if they should put the person through the interview process
    • Recruitment Manager calls the candidate for a brief chat, works out interview availability etc. Technical interview is generally organised for 1-2 days' time
    • Technical Interview is with a peer at the company. Not run by Management or HR - this is a fellow worker who knows their stuff
    • If that goes OK, I run the final interview - usually the next day. I'm looking for people skills, reasons for changing roles, why they want to join us, career aspirations, team dynamic etc. I also use the time to explain how our business works to make sure that they are picking us for the right reasons
    • If I am OK with them then the offer goes out that day

    For particularly strong candidates, we understand that they probably have a few jobs going through the process. Sometimes we get people who accept an offer, then withdraw the next week when a different job comes through. We stay in touch with candidates before Day 1 and ensure that we have the right onboarding to keep them happy.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @07:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @07:38PM (#1164156)

      This is pretty much how my last job interview went, with some flavour changes around my particular discipline. It wasn't quite same day, but it was pretty close. They knew they wanted my knowledge, experience and skillset, and they wanted it yesterday. Offer made, acceptable, done.

      I could have had more money elsewhere, but I was impressed by their focus on making shit happen. And I wasn't wrong - it's a pleasure to work here.

  • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday August 06 2021, @05:02AM (1 child)

    by Reziac (2489) on Friday August 06 2021, @05:02AM (#1163920) Homepage

    ...for the HR department.

    The more interviews they perform, the more necessary they seem.

    --
    And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @11:39AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 06 2021, @11:39AM (#1164009)
      Maybe they should ask themselves how businesses did it before they had an HR department? After all, atsome point the business didn't yet have an HR department, and they were able to hire and grow to the point where they felt the need to hire one.

      Maybe instead of an HR department that has zero knowledge of what the job entails, have individual departments have hiring circles, where job applicants ate interviewed by the top people actually doing the work? The interview will be much shorter, both in terms of time it takes (because people have work to do and will cut to the chase) and there won't be any follow up interviews - it's go/no go, after which there's a probationary period.

      If you don't trust your department heads to make good decisions, maybe it's time to fire whoever hired them in the first place? Probably the HR droud and upper management?

(1)