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posted by martyb on Tuesday August 24, @11:03AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/covid-19-vaccine-cards-why-so-big/619707/

This spring, as New York City warmed up and the local vaccination rate surged, I met my best friend for our first restaurant meal together in months. As soon as we sat down, she began rifling through her purse. "I have something for you," she told me. From her bag came a rectangle of clear, thick, double-layered plastic—the kind of display pocket that often dangles at the end of a lanyard. My friend had swiped a handful from her office's supply closet. "It's for your vaccine card," she explained. But I already knew.

When I got my first shot, in late February, I sat in the mandatory waiting area, holding my new card in one hand and my wallet in the other, trying to understand why the two objects weren't compatible. I contemplated where I should put this brand-new golden ticket, ultimately sliding the thin piece of too-large card stock into an envelope I found in my tote. I'm going to either lose this or destroy it, I thought to myself.

Indeed, I lost it—at least for a little while. Despite dutifully sliding the card into its new protective pocket after lunch with my friend, I eventually found myself tearing my apartment apart searching for it, for exactly the reasons I had feared: It was the wrong size for the one place where most people keep all their important everyday documents, and of too nebulous a purpose to sit safely in a drawer with my birth certificate and passport. Could it unlock some sort of privileges at the airport? Were restaurants going to check it? Did I need to take it to medical appointments? My card had gotten shuffled into a sandwich baggie filled with extra masks, not to be rediscovered for six weeks.

With all due respect to our country's overworked and undersupported public-health apparatus: This is dumb. The card is dumb, and it's difficult to imagine a series of intentional decisions that could have reasonably led to it as the consensus best pick. Its strangeness had been a bit less important in the past seven months, when evidence of immunity was rarely necessary to do things within America. Now, as Delta-variant cases surge and more municipalities and private businesses begin to require proof of vaccination to patronize places such as restaurants and gyms, the rubber has met the road on this flimsy de facto verification apparatus. It's not the highest-stakes question of this stage of the pandemic, but it's one that's become quite common: How did we end up with these cards?

What size are the COVID-19 vaccine ID cards in other (non-USA) countries?


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  • (Score: 5, Funny) by PiMuNu on Tuesday August 24, @11:17AM (29 children)

    by PiMuNu (3823) on Tuesday August 24, @11:17AM (#1170256)

    While we are on the subject of moaning, my back aches. Also it's too cold at the moment. And too dry, it really does my sinuses in. Also I don't like the colour of the sky.

    • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Tuesday August 24, @11:41AM (28 children)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Tuesday August 24, @11:41AM (#1170270)

      That was my first thought. Truly a first world problem. Meanwhile people in Africa waiting for their vaccine doses would be happy to get the certificate in any format.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:00PM (21 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:00PM (#1170282)

        But why can't it be made correctly the first time? it's the same shit every time.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @12:21PM (10 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @12:21PM (#1170287)

          It's entirely intentional. Any idiot knows how to make a card easy to carry - it takes a certain kind of manipulative to make it harder to deal with and more likely to be lost. Motives for this manipulation may vary, but be assured, more than one person in the decision making process knew exactly what they were doing and the impacts it would have.

          Reminds me of right justified text, shown by widely reproduced research to be harder to read, comprehend, and reference for information. When somebody hands you a contract or other important document in right justified text, know that they are intentionally obfuscating the information they just gave you, made you responsible for while simultaneously, intentionally, making it just a bit harder for you to actually comprehend that information.

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 24, @03:57PM (3 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday August 24, @03:57PM (#1170363) Journal

            So one edge gets beat up a little but the damn thing fits fine in a wallet otherwise.

            Also, is it possible they simply needed to fit a certain amount of text and signature room on the card and it's not a conspiracy to sap and impurify your precious bodily fluids?

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @05:31PM (2 children)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @05:31PM (#1170417)

              Occalm's Razor after being applied to Government actions:

              Everything is a conspiracy to sap and impurify Our Purity of Essence / precious bodily fluids. It is the simplest and most often correct explanation, rivaled only by incompetence + apathy.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
              • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 24, @05:44PM (1 child)

                by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday August 24, @05:44PM (#1170432) Journal

                Or they placed all the information they needed into the smallest area possible to save taxpayer money on printing costs.

                • (Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @07:59PM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @07:59PM (#1170489)

                  Malicious Compliance:

                  placed all the information they needed into the smallest area possible to save taxpayer money on printing costs.

                  Law requires them to save taxpayer money AND provide the information... didn't say anything about making that information practical to access, durable, etc.

                  --
                  John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:00PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:00PM (#1170364)

            Reminds me of right justified text, shown by widely reproduced research to be harder to read, comprehend, and reference for information. When somebody hands you a contract or other important document in right justified text, know that they are intentionally obfuscating the information they just gave you, made you responsible for while simultaneously, intentionally, making it just a bit harder for you to actually comprehend that information.

            Are you sure you mean right justified (flush right, ragged left; the opposite of what you're used to) and not full justified (flush both left and right, with words and sometimes letters spaced out to fill the line)? I've never seen a contract or other important document right justified. Full justified, absolutely, and, annoyingly, SHOUTING ALL CAPS to make the text harder to read, but never right justified.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @08:02PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @08:02PM (#1170491)

              You're absolutely correct - I meant full justified, I was just focused on the right - shouldn't let that happen, there's a bigger picture to consider.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday August 24, @07:26PM (3 children)

            by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @07:26PM (#1170473)

            I think it was just lack of foresight. The card is Avery 5392 cardstock, which means it would be very easy to print, and also listed inside programs like Microsoft Word. The person putting together probably just searched for the first card that could fit all the fields. That might have been according to some rules about font size, etc. I'm betting that once the fields were decided, the standards for font-size applied, etc. that they found it fit on Avery 5392. Or a standard 4x3 name card which is readily available everywhere. You can load up the cardstock in a laser printer (or ugggh an ink jet) and print blank CDC cards at will. Meaning, that the vast majority of clinics, pharmacies, and vaccine outreach programs would've had access to equipment and materials to print one.

            If they were forward thinking, it would have been a nonstandard size that no cardstock company supports with official water marks, and fits inside a wallet folded. For truly evil government agenda points, they could've pushed it as an endorsement of some kind to put on a passport or new federal ID card. Instead, it was basic bitch office secretary hour.

            In this case I think it's better to assume incompetence instead of malice. Even that may not be fair because the person in charge wasn't thinking this was going to become a goddamn passport. They may have checked all the boxes they were given perfectly.

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @08:08PM (1 child)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @08:08PM (#1170492)

              all the boxes they were given

              The beauty of "need to know" information compartmentalization.

              Of course the decision makes sense to the person who made it. Considering the needs of the government workers and maybe health care providers before the needs of the citizens is definitely on-brand. And being on a standard Avery size is _probably_ a sign that they're not attempting to funnel money somewhere inappropriate, which certainly happens in government printing programs everywhere all the time.

              Anyone who didn't twig on the concept that this vaccine card was going to instantly become a virtual passport is certainly obtuse enough to qualify for civil service. I mean: what do you have to show to enroll your kids in school? What have the cruise ships been demanding for months? Not to mention Canada... if the oh-so-polite Canadians are insisting, it's going to become universal. My office announced last Friday that as of Sept. 30 we're going to have to show one to enter the building - I think I'll just hold any meetings I need in the parking lot, at safe distances, thank you.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday August 27, @04:28AM

                by dry (223) on Friday August 27, @04:28AM (#1171329) Journal

                I believe it is an app that Canada uses for the border, though I guess to get registered with the app means proving you're vaccinated so the card would be needed.
                While on the topic, my vaccination card is the usual wallet size, only used it so far for my 2nd shot and most of us are registered with our health number. My Province (BC) is bringing in a vaccine passport, sounds like a QR code on your phone with something else for those without a phone, combined with ID. Polling shows about 80% of Canadians are in favour of some kind of a vaccine passport to some degree.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @04:46AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @04:46AM (#1170672)

              The cards being an inconvenient size to carry (without the trivial work around of folding the card in half) probably doesn't matter since there is such a counterfeit problem across the country. We'll probably have to switch to a centralized db lookup system, or some sort of signed digital card. Because some folks would rather risk an $8000 fine*, possible jail sentence, and significantly higher risk of serious illness and death, than getting vaccinated.

              40% of eligible Americans are still refusing vaccination. We're back to over 1000 unvaccinated people per day dying preventable deaths, from COVID, in the US.

              * A family was just fined $8K for attempting to enter Hawaii from the mainland using forged vaccination documents. The article said the adults could have faced jail for the forgeries. The article didn't mention it, but they were either returned or they spent their vacation in Hawaii's mandatory quarantine for visitors without (valid) proof of vaccination.

        • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @01:22PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @01:22PM (#1170306)

          Are you referring to the vaccine or the card?

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday August 24, @01:41PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @01:41PM (#1170311) Journal

            If they both don't work, then they cancel each other out, so it's all okay.

            --
            I notice that for each booster shot, they use a fresh needle?!? Don't they know about re-usable boosters?
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Tuesday August 24, @01:40PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @01:40PM (#1170310) Journal

          why can't [the card] be made correctly the first time? it's the same shit every time.

          Good ol' American management and planning.

          Hey, I've got an idea! How about we outsource all lower, middle and upper management?

          --
          I notice that for each booster shot, they use a fresh needle?!? Don't they know about re-usable boosters?
          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:34PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:34PM (#1170457)

            That still leaves 4 layers intact.

        • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday August 25, @04:49AM (5 children)

          by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Wednesday August 25, @04:49AM (#1170675)

          the vaccine cards were never intended to be carried with you like a credit card or drivers license because you weren't supposed to need it for anything except international travel at worst.

          The vaccine was supposed to END COVID!! and the vac card would be left sitting in your drawer along with your passport and vaccination records for measles and yellow fever. Nobody thought about it's size beyond "will it fit in the envelope with the rest of the vaccination papers?".

          It wasn't until everyone else realized what the experts knew from day one. COVID was here to stay. And now we have proof or vaccination requirements popping up everywhere.

          --
          "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
          • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 26, @10:20AM (4 children)

            by hendrikboom (1125) on Thursday August 26, @10:20AM (#1171137) Homepage Journal

            Quebec is issuing QR codes as vaccine passports [radio-canada.ca], an app to display them on your phone, and an app that stores can use to check the for validity. A thousand-dollar penalty for trying to use one that isn't yours.

            • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday August 27, @04:37AM (3 children)

              by dry (223) on Friday August 27, @04:37AM (#1171331) Journal

              Sounds like BC is going the same way, details to come. The question is enforcement with some businesses already saying they'll refuse to ask for the passport and only bylaw officers to enforce. I think half the reason is to encourage the hesitant, with vaccine appointments already way up after the announcement. They'll be human rights claims as well as there is no out for the medically unable to get vaccinated or the religious nuts. It's also only for discriminatory stuff like sports, concerts and such.

              • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday August 30, @09:16PM (2 children)

                by hendrikboom (1125) on Monday August 30, @09:16PM (#1172529) Homepage Journal

                It looks like Quebec is dealing with the corner cases, such as people who can't be vaccinated for valid medical reasons. But it may take some time to work out the details, such as how to get certificates to homeless people.

                Although they make a big point about it working with cell phones, I've already found out what to do without a cell phone. Instead of the app, I can download and print a certificate with the QR code. I'll be testing that next time I get a chance to get checked. I'll be using the printout everywhere because my cell phone is too old to admit the Android app (requires Android 8.1; I've reached the limit of my upgrading with Android 6.something).

                And facilities that need to check QR codes and don't get severe fines too. There will likely be undercover inspectors, like there already are for sales tax, and they say they are also setting up a snitch line.

                Even if they don't actually do all that surveillance, the fact that they might is likely to get a lot of businesses to comply.

                • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday August 31, @02:02AM (1 child)

                  by dry (223) on Tuesday August 31, @02:02AM (#1172635) Journal

                  It's still up in the air here, though I'd assume a printout of the QR code will work, but that assumes access to a computer and printer, not something the homeless easily have, especially if they can't use the library until they get the pass. Lots of the homeless don't even have ID, which I understand is also a requirement so the QR code corresponds to the user.
                  For enforcement, at least for people freaking out at being denied entry, the Province suggested calling the cops, which got a very negative reaction from the cops about their shortage of resources. Will have to see how it works out. The majority does seem in favour as well as getting pissed off at the vaccine deniers.

                  • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday August 31, @03:10AM

                    by hendrikboom (1125) on Tuesday August 31, @03:10AM (#1172650) Homepage Journal

                    I heard a radio interview with someone who is working with homeless people. She said everything is still somewhat indefinite, but her organisation is working to make sure the homeless can get their vaccine passports.
                    Sounds like someone is trying to make things right, but I'd be happier knowing it had been planned for properly at the start.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:38PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:38PM (#1170295)

        Meanwhile people in Africa waiting for their vaccine doses

        yes, all those highly publicized african outbreaks they must have really upped their sanitation game and installed social distance markers just all over the place surly they are desperate for this particular vaccine card above all else

        • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday August 24, @08:31PM

          by Opportunist (5545) on Tuesday August 24, @08:31PM (#1170498)

          Probably not, but it's the only one we can be assed to give a shit about since the last thing we need is this virus having yet another incubation zone and human petri dish to successfully mutate into something worse, which will affect us over here again.

          You really think anyone cares about some Africans dying? Please, if we gave a shit about them, we'd have wanted to hand them some other vaccines that kill them, compared to other diseases that actually do threaten this continent, Covid doesn't even register.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:44PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:44PM (#1170569)

        God, I really hate F'ing idiots that say this. Yeah, I got first world problems. You know why? Because I live in the FIRST WORLD, numb nuts!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:48AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:48AM (#1170595)

          Now that is REALLY a 1st world problem (complaining about your problems being categorized as 1st world).

        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday August 25, @02:24AM (1 child)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday August 25, @02:24AM (#1170627) Journal

          Your accent sounds like you're from the new world. Technically the "first" world would be, Africa...

          --
          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @03:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @03:31PM (#1170843)

            First, second, and third world are NATO designations, idiot.

  • (Score: 2) by dltaylor on Tuesday August 24, @11:46AM (10 children)

    by dltaylor (4693) on Tuesday August 24, @11:46AM (#1170274)

    When I pull out my old yellow international vaccination multi-page document from the 60s, it is a lot of very cramped text. The current US one is easier for me to read, and for the providers to update for the Moderna 2nd and whatever booster I get (probably in late October or early November, depending on whether there is some kind of update for Delta variant protection or a very likely Epsilon, since so many Americans are apparently morons).

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @12:24PM (8 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @12:24PM (#1170290)

      Hey, Americans are indeed morons but it's not like we even have the majority of morons on the planet. Start with Brazil, then look around at the other outbreak centers like the UK, Iran, Mongolia, Malaysia - and then you can start reading between the lines of the countries that under report their case rates (more than the U.S. does.)

      --
      John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
      • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday August 24, @02:10PM (7 children)

        by HammeredGlass (12241) on Tuesday August 24, @02:10PM (#1170319)

        You sound pretty racist -> https://i.imgur.com/yJQ2cMY.jpg [imgur.com]

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @02:36PM (5 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @02:36PM (#1170330)

          My comment didn't single out races, your screen grab that lacks any kind of context captions is exclusively showing something high for Asians in a particular corner of the world.

          I'm going to assume you are saying something about Asians? Racist, but I'll play: (probably self reported) behavior of Asians living in the U.S. Northeast is a completely different thing than the actions of specific governments like China. I am sure there are many other governments around the world that deliberately under-, or simply inaccurately, report their COVID-19 status - China is just the biggest one that immediately comes to mind. Even the U.S. underreports COVID cases, at least from what I can tell from my local schools and their "dashboards" there's a severe disconnect between cases seen first and secondhand and what is being reported. But, overall, the U.S. does still seem to be reporting some significant subset of COVID cases.

          Another consideration is the granularity of reporting, China taken as a whole is going to look pretty COVID free as compared to specific areas of the cities where the outbreaks are happening / extreme shutdown measures are being reported again, even as the NYT map of global COVID shows China "in good shape."

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:52PM (#1170382)

          An image on imgr.com will settle any dispute!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @04:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @04:53AM (#1170677)

      I had the health dept. fill out my international vaccine (yellow) card as well as the vaccine cards they were giving everybody. I figured it was more likely to be accepted than some random card that was not standardized across countries. But, the yellow card is massive compared to the covid vaccine cards.

  • (Score: 2) by Taxi Dudinous on Tuesday August 24, @11:58AM (6 children)

    by Taxi Dudinous (8690) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @11:58AM (#1170278)

    Fold it in half and it's about credit card sized. Now, guess where you can put it?

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by driverless on Tuesday August 24, @12:58PM (3 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Tuesday August 24, @12:58PM (#1170300)

      Tried there, but even with plenty of lube it's still pretty damn painful.

      • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Tuesday August 24, @03:36PM

        by Subsentient (1111) on Tuesday August 24, @03:36PM (#1170354) Homepage Journal

        Ahh see there's your problem, you need to practice with horses, and work your way up to pineapples. Didn't they teach you this in elementary school?

        --
        Trying is the first step towards failure. -The Click
      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday August 24, @03:57PM (1 child)

        by Tork (3914) on Tuesday August 24, @03:57PM (#1170362)

        Tried there, but even with plenty of lube it's still pretty damn painful.

        Yeah I can't believe they actually used the expensive card stock for that.

        --
        Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @05:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @05:38PM (#1170426)

          You should see where they put the cheap ones.

    • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Tuesday August 24, @03:35PM (1 child)

      by Subsentient (1111) on Tuesday August 24, @03:35PM (#1170353) Homepage Journal

      I'm sure there are plenty of people who will object to folding them in half, but yup, that's what I did.

      --
      Trying is the first step towards failure. -The Click
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:50PM (#1170381)

        I'm sure you will feel superior when you get turned around and sent home on your first flight.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by KritonK on Tuesday August 24, @11:58AM (31 children)

    by KritonK (465) on Tuesday August 24, @11:58AM (#1170279)

    In the EU we don't have vaccination cards, but digital vaccination certificates [europa.eu]. These are single-page PDF documents with a QR code that can be scanned to verify the authenticity of the document. You can either print the document and carry the printout, or store it in your cell phone or tablet. If you lose the printout, you can print a new one. If you delete the file, you can download it again.

    In Greece the government has produced an app [covidfree.gov.gr] that scans the QR code, verifies that the URL in the QR code points to a valid vaccination certificate, and displays the name of the owner of the certificate and their vaccination status. This can be used by establishments to check their patrons' vaccination status. Presumably other countries have similar apps. I have no idea what happens with people with vaccination certificates from non-EU countries.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @12:28PM (22 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @12:28PM (#1170291)

      Something something HIPAA, something BS BS BS, incorrect interpretation, outright fabrication, HIPAA!!! our privacy, our RIGHTS, DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!!

      /s

      --
      John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday August 24, @01:50PM (10 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @01:50PM (#1170312) Journal

        I think HIPPA is just an excuse.

        The real reason we don't have secure vaccination cards in the US is for the express porpoise of allowing people to make fake cards.

        --
        I notice that for each booster shot, they use a fresh needle?!? Don't they know about re-usable boosters?
        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @01:58PM (9 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @01:58PM (#1170314)

          There's also the problem of requiring everyone to have a vaccine card, but to also argue that it's unfair and impossible to require everyone to have a Voter ID card.

          We can't do anything that would make it more difficult for the Dems to cheat on elections.

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday August 24, @02:15PM (7 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @02:15PM (#1170321) Journal

            I have a voter card. It seems to serve no porpoise. When I go to the polling place, what they actually want is ID like a driver license or passport. All the voter card means is that I am already on the voting rolls. They check my ID and confirm that (1) I am on the rolls, and (2) I am at the right place (so I can't vote at multiple places), and (3) that I have not already voted at this location today.

            --
            I notice that for each booster shot, they use a fresh needle?!? Don't they know about re-usable boosters?
            • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:37PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:37PM (#1170332)

              I've lived in 5 States since I've been old enough to vote. Four of those States never removed me from the registered voter rolls after I moved out of the State.

              In those States where they sent out ballots to every registered voter, someone got the ballot intended for me, and for all I know someone voted those ballots. And, although it's easy to find out that I was still a registered voter in those other States (at least it was before election integrity became a big issue), I have not found any way to see whether someone voted using my registrations in those States.

              The only reason to keep non-eligible voters on the voter rolls (in some of my examples, for decades) is to make it easier to insert fake ballots into the election without being caught.

              • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:53PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:53PM (#1170384)

                Yes that's the only reason - to commit a complex fraud involving unknown people that never gets found out. For decades, no less.

                • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @08:00PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @08:00PM (#1170490)

                  My family lived in Chicago for several generations. The Democrat Machine there has been cheating for at least 80 years. Back in the 1940s, while my grandfather was voting, a poll worker mentioned that his brother (my great-uncle) had just been in to vote. My grandfather pointed out to him that his brother had died years earlier. The poll worker just passed his paperwork to another poll worker and walked away.

                  And, the reason he didn't make a stink about it was because he didn't want the street in front of his house torn up and left unpassable for months or years (which has happened to others who made trouble).

                  People who never lived in Chicago think the stories about "graveyard voters" are just jokes. They aren't.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @10:24PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @10:24PM (#1170536)

                    Yet all investigations turn up little from dems and frequent cheating by reps. Either we liberals truly are that much smarter or your anecdotes are stupid. Which is it? While you're thinking about stuff why not share your thoughts on Trump's criminal activities?

                  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:55AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:55AM (#1170597)

                    My uncle swore blind that he saw a ghost vote. Extrapolate that by all uncles and you've got MASSIVE voter fraud.

            • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:44PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:44PM (#1170335)

              Note that in Democrat-controlled areas, they are fighting tooth and nail against any proof of eligibility before someone casts a vote. I'f you're being required to show your Driver's License or Passport to vote, you probably live in a Republican area.

              None of the safeguards you mention work in a mail-in voting situation (which the Democrats have been pushing hard). Here's an example of such fraud:

              https://presscalifornia.com/2021/08/19/video-gavin-groupies-caught-swiping-recall-ballots-from-mailbox/ [presscalifornia.com]

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:56PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:56PM (#1170386)

                Moar voters is betterer. Or less, I forget which way it is.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:26AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:26AM (#1170588)

            They gave me my card when I got vaccinated. Do they hand out voter ID when you vote?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Tuesday August 24, @02:07PM (3 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @02:07PM (#1170318) Journal

        HIPPA applies only to Medical or Official Staff disclosing the contents of Medical Records, if I understand it correctly. If you choose to show someone your QR code / paper certificate that is your choice, and not something that the medical staff are responsible for. You choose to enter a restaurant, event, workplace or whatever. In France there is similar legislation and I assume it is the same in most countries.

        And, in Europe at least, all the QR codes gives them is your name (to prove the code is yours), the number and dates of your vaccinations, and it checks that the QR code is itself valid. I can plaster my medical records or my QR code on a billboard. It would not be a breach of medical privacy.

        --
        It's always my fault...
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @02:27PM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @02:27PM (#1170327)

          I work in med devices, we protect health information while also making it accessible to legitimate users, we are exhaustively trained in HIPAA - and... out in the world, I hear HIPAA used as an excuse for things it has nothing to do with 10x more than I hear actual applications of the law. Like arguing with the TSA when your flight will be closing the boarding door in 60 minutes or less, there's no point in calling out these idiots and their BS, you're more likely to put yourself in a worse state than you already are. Or: like wrestling a pig in the mud, you both get dirty - but the pig enjoys it.

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:48PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:48PM (#1170337)

            The real problem is requiring people to surrender their HIPPA protected information to people who are not bound by HIPPA.

            If you want to release that information to the world, go right ahead. But it's wrong to allow companies to force you to release that information to them.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:20PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:20PM (#1170453)

              The real problem is requiring people to surrender their HIPPA protected information to people who are not bound by HIPPA.

              If you want to release that information to the world, go right ahead. But it's wrong to allow companies to force you to release that information to them.

              You seem to be a little confused here. Companies may choose who they will or will not do business with at their discretion (protected classes excepted). You don't have to show them that you are vaccinated but they don't have to do business with you either. And if you know they require proof of vaccination status and you go there anyway, you're just an asshole.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Tuesday August 24, @02:20PM (5 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @02:20PM (#1170325) Journal

        our RIGHTS, DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!!

        Try this one on for size.

        From Fox News:
        Mississippi orders coronavirus-infected individuals to isolate at home or face up to 5 years in prison [foxnews.com]
        Mississippi's daily new cases are the highest they've been during the pandemic

        But what about people's right to go out unvaccinated and unmasked so they can spread covid-19 to everyone else? It is their right! They should be permitted to cough, spit and sneeze on others deliberately with impunity. Don't tread on them!

        Can't they just say they aren't infected? With their dying breath they can say it's just the flu flue flew.

        --
        I notice that for each booster shot, they use a fresh needle?!? Don't they know about re-usable boosters?
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 24, @02:29PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 24, @02:29PM (#1170329)

          It aren't no flue - this here is allergies.

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @05:00PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @05:00PM (#1170391)

          Freedom ain't free, buddy. Ya gotta pay the price for my rights.

          • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Tuesday August 24, @07:33PM (1 child)

            by captain normal (2205) on Tuesday August 24, @07:33PM (#1170478)

            Right...and it's my right to go about my life without being infected with a deadly disease by some idiot who believes everything they see on the internet or hear on late night AM radio.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:01AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:01AM (#1170600)

              No, see that's the "not free" part you missed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:10PM (#1170555)

          But what about the vaccined faggots spreading coof at their gay orgies? Ever thing about them? I bet you have...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @07:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @07:43PM (#1170481)

        You know, don't comment with bullshit.

        1. EU certificates only store the data on the device in question -- THERE IS NO CENTRAL STORE
        2. public key crypto is used for verification and make it tamper proof. You know, since THERE IS NO CENTRAL STORE

        So, as long as you trust a given nation to have a process that signs only valid certificate data, to verify the certificate, all you need is the few public keys. And then you can compare the certificate data, like Name or DOB, with other piece of ID, without internet or central server or anything like that. And who inputs data to be signed?? you know, people like doctors and pharmacists, so if you can trust them to not be corrupt scum bags with drugs, you can probably trust them to keep the certificates about correct too.

        The certificates some states in US are trying are just bad bullshit. They may as well stick to WHO vaccination book and be done with it. You know,

        https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B07K1H8D3X [amazon.de]

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:08PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:08PM (#1170365)

      These are single-page PDF documents with a QR code that can be scanned to verify the authenticity of the document.

      That's a trap looking for suckers to fall for it. What kind of idiot blindly scans QR codes? What kind of government creates documents that rely on people blindly scanning QR codes? How can you know that it's not something malicious on a forged document? You might as well click on every link-shortened URL anyone sends you for all the difference it makes.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by lentilla on Tuesday August 24, @05:37PM (4 children)

        by lentilla (1770) on Tuesday August 24, @05:37PM (#1170425)

        What kind of idiot blindly scans QR codes?

        I scan QR random codes all the time.

        There is a vast difference between reading something and acting on it. Just scanning a random QR code isn't going to make your device dirty!

        (To be sure, QR code scanning applications should never blindly act on data - same as autorun.inf should never have been implemented the way it was - at some point you simply can't help people not to shoot themselves in the foot.)

        I am very much impressed by QR codes. There are a really elegant way to reliably transfer a small packet of data from one place to another in a human-friendly format. Children can use them. Older adults can use them. They are the digital equivalent of a handed-out flyer you can stick in your pocket.

        By themselves, QR codes are complete benign.

        link-shortened URL

        I agree with you completely here.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:25PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @06:25PM (#1170456)

          What kind of idiot blindly scans QR codes?

          I scan QR random codes all the time.

          There is a vast difference between reading something and acting on it. Just scanning a random QR code isn't going to make your device dirty!

          (To be sure, QR code scanning applications should never blindly act on data - same as autorun.inf should never have been implemented the way it was - at some point you simply can't help people not to shoot themselves in the foot.)

          I am very much impressed by QR codes. There are a really elegant way to reliably transfer a small packet of data from one place to another in a human-friendly format. Children can use them. Older adults can use them. They are the digital equivalent of a handed-out flyer you can stick in your pocket.

          By themselves, QR codes are complete benign.

          link-shortened URL

          I agree with you completely here.

          Interesting because I've written exploits for competitions that are delivered via QR codes with no action needed other than for the user to scan them. Any time an application accepts unsanitized input from an unknown source it's a possible vector for malicious code execution.

          • (Score: 2, Redundant) by lentilla on Tuesday August 24, @07:28PM (2 children)

            by lentilla (1770) on Tuesday August 24, @07:28PM (#1170475)

            Congratulations on finding a cool exploit!

            with no action needed other than for the user to scan them

            ... and an application to act on the data contained within (you missed the important part).

            Any time an application accepts unsanitized input from an unknown source

            Well, there's your problem!

            The reason I am posting this highly redundant reply is that it is critical that "normal people" understand the distinction between data and action in the realm of information technology. Like I said above, simply scanning a naughty QR code doesn't make your device "dirty". Given your ability to write exploits this will be self-evident to you, but it is also important that everyone else understands this too - such that they can apportion blame in the correct place - it's not the QR code at fault, it's either the application that processes it or a fundamental failure of the user to comprehend digital safety. "Digital safety" being as much a part of the modern survival toolkit as not walking down a dark alley in a bad neighbourhood. I would not want people to be misdirected to be scared of data. The salient issue is what what is done with that data. That is where we need to address our focus.

            • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:06AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:06AM (#1170602)

              Calling your own post redundant is just begging for the Shitheads to mod you... -1 Redundant. Yes, I did.

              • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:30AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @01:30AM (#1170610)

                Then own it, Mr. Coward.

    • (Score: 1) by LabRat on Tuesday August 24, @07:17PM

      by LabRat (14896) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @07:17PM (#1170470)
      Some [larger] vaccine providers in the US also issue these via SMART health cards [smarthealth.cards], and if you were lucky enough to be provided one by your vaccinator, it's easy to carry around digitally or print out on card stock.
      I still have my actual CDC card in a safe place, but I don't carry it with me; the QR code from the SMART card is easier.
    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 26, @10:26AM

      by hendrikboom (1125) on Thursday August 26, @10:26AM (#1171138) Homepage Journal

      Sounds like what they are doing in Quebec [radio-canada.ca]. Maybe the systems are even compatible!

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:00PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:00PM (#1170281)

    I just folded mine and put it in my wallet. Done.

    • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Tuesday August 24, @01:25PM

      by mhajicek (51) on Tuesday August 24, @01:25PM (#1170307)

      I took a picture with my phone.

      --
      The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:16PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:16PM (#1170285)

    No cards, two sheets of 8.5 x 11 inch paper.
    One for each shot.

    • (Score: 2) by RedGreen on Tuesday August 24, @01:03PM

      by RedGreen (888) on Tuesday August 24, @01:03PM (#1170303)

      Here in Nova Scotia they allow you to print out a single page from the website they have for that which contains both shots listed on it. Telling you it is the "official" confirmation document, the appointment paper that you describe that they give you is useless for that confirmation purpose which is what that is here.

      --
      "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @12:22PM (#1170288)

    I didn't realize this was actually a thing, and not just a bad idea politicians were thinking about in deep blue.

  • (Score: 4, Touché) by SomeGuy on Tuesday August 24, @01:15PM (10 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Tuesday August 24, @01:15PM (#1170304)

    <sarcasm>Didn't you see the advertisement? You are supposed to used your Apple iPhone(R)(TM) or Android(R)(TM) device to store and present your vaccine information. Unless you are some kind of evil, sick, paper loving bad-for-the-planet Luddite, you should be using your smart phone for every trivial little thing. Of course, you will need to buy a new one and happy greeen recycle the old one when they break compatiblity or something, but everyone is ok with that and you should be too. </sarcasm>

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday August 24, @02:21PM (8 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @02:21PM (#1170326) Journal

      You jest, I know, but here where I live my bank told me that they could not approve online purchases using a card unless I could provide a smart phone number that they could use to verify that it is actually me using the card. God knows what happens if somebody takes my card and my phone...

      I asked them to give me a suitable model - but no, of course, I would have to pay for it. I asked them about old folk, disabled people, and other corner cases, how do they afford such luxury devices?. They simply stared back at me with confused looks on their faces. Against my better judgement I bought myself a suitable, low end, smart phone. Turned off GPS, any tracking, and only switch it on when I want to use it, not so that people can call me when they want to.

      The use of digital vaccination certificates has actually made me concede the value of the smart phone. You can even set the QR code as your 'wallpaper' (probably the wrong term, but you know what I mean) so that it is always displayed even without unlocking the phone. I don't have to break stride to enter most places now.

      --
      It's always my fault...
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:27PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:27PM (#1170328)

        Question then becomes for how long will that work. When will the bank, or whomever, change or update their software in such as fashion that your low end old phone won't cope anymore. Then you need to get a new phone. That has already happened a few times up here in Sweden where phones just got "to old" (ie had to little memory) and could no longer run the apps or was found to insecure to view or host the various digital certificates. They always seem to rely on the latest OS and if your phone can't upgrade to it then you are out of luck. Time to get a new phone. So pretty much as often as Android or Apple make a new major version of the OS if you can't upgrade you are screwed.

        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 26, @10:28AM

          by hendrikboom (1125) on Thursday August 26, @10:28AM (#1171139) Homepage Journal

          Happened here. My phone can no longer run my bank's current app. I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars just to cash cheques.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:54PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:54PM (#1170340)

        I absolutely hate how so much of society now just assumes everyone has a smartphone. I only got a smartphone when it became nigh impossible to do certain things unless you had one, because everyone has one, right? Yes, I'm an old curmudgeon, don't I still get to buy food unless I'm letting Apple or Google track my every footstep?

        I wonder if they have smartphone QR codes for people who actually have fucking medical reasons not to take the damn vaccine. Probably not, since the people supposedly making all these systems never fucking think about the edge cases.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday August 24, @04:14PM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 24, @04:14PM (#1170368) Journal

          I agree with you 100% regarding the assumption that everybody has a smartphone. I just tell many people that I haven't and I certainly don't tell anyone the number unless I can see a benefit to myself rather than to the person asking.

          However, I do not agree with some of the assumptions that you make regarding people who have medical exemptions.

          They don't need QR codes for such people - here you only need to prove that you are vaccinated if you want to enter certain spaces, usually social, which are likely to be crowded (restaurants, festivals, big events etc). If you have a medical exemption there is no problem, you can still do all the essential things like get treatment, do your shopping, go out for exercise.

          But if you cannot be vaccinated then you shouldn't be going into crowded social events is the way most people here view it. If you have a weakened immune system for example, as my wife did, she was told to avoid such places for her own safety, not because she risked giving others a virus that she did not have. She could never have the annual flu vaccine either. She had to protect herself long before the CV-19 problem started. So she didn't have the CV-19 vaccine but she had to take measures to keep herself safe and healthy, and that meant staying away from places where she would be at particular risk

          --
          It's always my fault...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @07:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @07:41PM (#1170480)

          no smartphone here. wife doesn't have one, and neither do the kids. we manage without too much trouble

          also no wifi in the house until the kids needed to do remote for a year; wifi on a dedicated subnet is easier than running ethernet from the basement through the attic to their rooms. and the wifi routed is turned off at night

          did once have a credit card reject a transaction a month back because they couldn't text me a verification code - so i simply used a different card. called to ask why they needed to send me a text, and they said they wouldn't talk to me until i verified my identity - via text. "sure - go ahead and send me that text", followed by "we don't have a cell phone on record for the account, only a home phone. and i see you're calling from that phone, so we've verified your identity." at that point, they changed my 2fa method over to call-only, and we're all done with that

        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 26, @10:31AM

          by hendrikboom (1125) on Thursday August 26, @10:31AM (#1171140) Homepage Journal

          In quebec [radio-canada.ca], they will issue codes for people with valid medical reasons for not being able to take the vaccine.

      • (Score: 2) by linuxrocks123 on Wednesday August 25, @05:03AM (1 child)

        by linuxrocks123 (2557) on Wednesday August 25, @05:03AM (#1170680) Journal

        What country? What bank? What card?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:25PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 25, @12:25PM (#1170788)

          it was an american express; 371449635398431, expiring 1225. will you be able to help?

          thank you

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Tuesday August 24, @05:03PM

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Tuesday August 24, @05:03PM (#1170392)

      I wonder how many places are hung up on seeing the original card? Lots of copiers have reducing functions. A shrunk copy could fit in a wallet.

      Or any phone with a camera could carry a picture of both sides of the card.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:42PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @02:42PM (#1170334)

    Now give me my fuckin card.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @03:51PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @03:51PM (#1170360)

    Which was to tattoo the vax info on your forehead or right hand.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:11PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @04:11PM (#1170366)

      You've already got Donald Trump's fat face tattooed on your forehead and on your butt. Why is this so much harder?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:47PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:47PM (#1170572)

        NO, Roger Stone has a portrait of Nixon tattooed on his, um, "back".

    • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday August 24, @10:10PM (1 child)

      by darkfeline (1030) on Tuesday August 24, @10:10PM (#1170529) Homepage

      In case anyone is wondering, this is a reference to the mark of the beast in the Bible. The mark is placed on the forehead or hand of people who wished to engage in any business. For example, to eat at a restaurant or buy food, you needed to have the mark. This was intended to exclude people who did not worship the beast from society and "encourage" people to do so.

      People who are more familiar with the Bible can correct me.

      --
      Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @10:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @10:26PM (#1170538)

        Religious people are almost universally nuts, kind of required to believe their texts so literally. The more sane members get da boot!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 24, @11:02PM (#1170552)

      A 'tattoo on your forehead or right hand' is probably how the concept of Facial Recognition and Apple Watches could tried to be explained to anyone from 100AD...

(1) 2