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posted by janrinok on Monday September 13, @11:43PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]

Toyota, Honda oppose U.S. House electric vehicle tax plan:

Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and Honda Motor Co (7267.T) on Saturday sharply criticized a proposal by Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives to give union-made electric vehicles in the United States an additional $4,500 tax incentive.

Toyota said in a statement that the plan unveiled late Friday discriminates "against American autoworkers based on their choice not to unionize."

The bill, set to be voted on Tuesday by the Democratic-led House Ways and Means Committee as part of a proposed $3.5 trillion spending bill, would benefit Detroit's Big Three automakers, which have union-represented auto plants. read more

The proposal, estimated to cost $33 billion to $34 billion over 10 years, would boost to up to $12,500 the maximum tax credit for electric vehicles, up from the current $7,500. The $12,500 figure includes a $500 credit for using U.S.-produced batteries.


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 13, @11:46PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 13, @11:46PM (#1177543)

    money for my homies! screw the others! command economy!

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by fustakrakich on Monday September 13, @11:55PM (1 child)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday September 13, @11:55PM (#1177546) Journal

      :-) Well, if democrat homies are American, who are the republican homies?

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:28AM (#1177570)

        No matter who, all the cars are made (or at least assembled) here.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:43AM (#1177660)

      They're just "owning the dips."

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Tuesday September 14, @12:01AM (2 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday September 14, @12:01AM (#1177549) Journal

    You might get 1 trillion, depends what Joe says...

    This bill will have to be tacked on to a defense appropriations bill during one of those midnight sessions

    Why can't we just remove the tax incentives given for overseas labor?

    --
    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:25AM (#1177551)

      Oh goodness no, because then you'd have to remove the tax penalty for repatriating profits, and that would ... result in ... something-something-something corporate vampire squid death cult ... uh, something dreadful.

      The law of unintended consequences is the one law that the US congress rabidly applies (mostly to itself, really).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @08:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @08:04PM (#1177829)

      Because that would start a tariff war most likely...

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:35AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:35AM (#1177555)

    That's almost enough to get me to buy a Big Three union made shitbox. Not quite enough, since I have some self-respect, but almost enough.

  • (Score: 2) by stretch611 on Tuesday September 14, @01:02AM (4 children)

    by stretch611 (6199) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @01:02AM (#1177561)

    I would expect to hear from Elon Musk about a tax break like this.

    iirc, Tesla does not use union labor and he likely is not too happy to be excluded either.

    --
    I think; therefore, I am vaccinated.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @05:35AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @05:35AM (#1177618)

      His Martian kingdom won't be subject to American labor laws.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:46AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:46AM (#1177661)

      Indeed, I hang on his every word too, my Lord and Savior. Though he's probably busy working on the draft of his cryptocurrency tweets: is he buying or selling right now? I guess we'll have to wait and see!

      I wonder what brand of toilet paper he uses, 'cause I want to buy a pallet of that too.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday September 14, @03:29PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday September 14, @03:29PM (#1177724) Journal

      I think we're all just sick of hearing Musk's dopey thoughts on anything!

      But as you predicted, he's opposed. [businessinsider.com]

    • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday September 15, @12:58AM

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Wednesday September 15, @12:58AM (#1177914)

      I can think of at least one way he could fix it.

      but he's a spherical bastard; a bastard any way you look at him. he wont do what's right for the employees. he's an awful person when it comes right down to it (his vision be damned; he's just another rich asshole, nothing more)

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 14, @01:24AM (27 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @01:24AM (#1177567) Homepage Journal

    Tax breaks should be aimed at small businesses and startups. Better to see 3,000 or 5,000 smaller businesses benefit from a money giveaway, than the huge established corporations. Oh, but, Establishment figures like Establishment Joe don't want to see that happen. They prefer to keep the clique small, outsiders need not apply.

    --
    alles in Ordnung
    • (Score: 2) by optotronic on Tuesday September 14, @01:32AM (3 children)

      by optotronic (4285) on Tuesday September 14, @01:32AM (#1177572)

      Tax breaks should be aimed at small businesses and startups.

      The big companies are the ones lobbying congress the most for the tax breaks.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:40AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:40AM (#1177573)

        While true, that does not remove the burden of crafting good policy from the shoulders of government.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:50AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @01:50AM (#1177576)

          You're precious.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:37AM (#1177585)
      Then you'll have a bunch of scammers starting small businesses just to collect the tax breaks while doing as little actual work as possible. And they would get away with it because there would be too many to individually monitor. At least with the big guys you know they're actually producing something, and there are far fewer to monitor compliance.

      Just look at all those crazy startups that took investors money and turned out to be frauds.

    • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday September 14, @03:04AM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday September 14, @03:04AM (#1177590)

      Sure seems like smaller businesses are struggling while bigger ones' stocks are rallying, during a pandemic of all things. If there was an indicator that small/mid-sized businesses could use disproportionately more financial assistance in general, this would seem to be the smoking gun.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday September 14, @03:10AM (4 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday September 14, @03:10AM (#1177591)

      Better to see 3,000 or 5,000 smaller businesses benefit from a money giveaway, than the huge established corporations.

      And I'm just so guessing that you either own or work for a smaller business, making this argument mostly a thinly disguised self-interest, which doesn't impress me when discussing public policy. If my guess is correct, what you're doing is no different than what Toyota and Honda are doing, namely "Waaa, you were supposed to give that government cash to me, not them."

      Even if you're not just trying to promote your self-interest here, be assured that large businesses have a knack for finding a way to turn themselves into small businesses when it's legally advantageous to be a small business.

      The thing is, there are legitimate reasons for a government to want businesses to do something that might not be good for the next quarterly report but are good for longer-term purposes or for people other than the shareholders. And if you're going to nudge businesses to do those things, tax breaks are far less coercive than other means available to the government. So instead of trying to invent blanket rules that don't work, I suggest asking these two questions:
      1. Is the thing being incentivized a good idea? If it's useless, or something you actively oppose, of course you're going to oppose the incentive.
      2. Assuming it is a good idea, is the incentive going to give us a good bang for the public buck? If not, then look for other ways to make that thing happen.

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 14, @03:33AM (3 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @03:33AM (#1177598) Homepage Journal

        And I'm just so guessing that you either own or work for a smaller business,

        I was a small business for a few years. And, I've worked for businesses large and small. Maybe you're right, my views are skewed a little bit. Whether that be so or not, I'll point out that small businesses create jobs, big business eliminates jobs. I get so frustrated with those who claim otherwise.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/who-actually-creates-jobs-start-ups-small-businesses-or-big-corporations/2013/04/24/d373ef08-ac2b-11e2-a8b9-2a63d75b5459_story.html [washingtonpost.com]

        That page shows how complicated it is to figure out who creates the most jobs - but I'll point out that the megacorps don't create ANY jobs in flyover country. Small businesses do that - and I use the broader definition to include companies with 500 employees or less.

        All of that said, we routinely read about how little the major corporations pay in taxes, with their offshore banking, offshore investment, and hiding money in places like Ireland that don't charge equivalent taxes. Meanwhile, Joe Schmoe pays his taxes - ALL of his taxes, regularly, or he's hauled off to court, and then jail.

        I can't understand giving incentives to large corporations that often times pay no taxes, even more often cheat on the taxes, and almost always use unintended loopholes in the law to get out of paying taxes.

        --
        alles in Ordnung
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday September 14, @02:48PM (1 child)

          by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday September 14, @02:48PM (#1177705)

          If I concede that everything you wrote is completely true (and I agree with a lot of it): That doesn't answer the question of whether the proposed policy here is a good one.

          The simple fact is that there is no such thing as a small car manufacturer. Repair, sure. Some guy in your neighborhood who can restore a '57 Ford like nobody else, absolutely. But neither of those are making new cars. Even relative newcomers like Tesla are giant businesses, because the economies of scale are too huge to not do that, and there's no hipster-funded artisanal car industry or something like that because the mass-manufactured cars are better. So if the government is intending any policy affecting the manufacture of cars, they're going to target big businesses.

          All of which is a separate issue from closing tax loopholes and doing something about the tax evasion industry which makes it so rich people and big businesses frequently pay less than poor people and small businesses.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @06:38PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @06:38PM (#1177788)

            There is a sort of hipster, artisanal car business, it's just so underground that a lot of normies never hear about it.

            You think I'm joking, but I'm really not.

            It takes many forms. There are the customisation crew, who will take a donor vehicle and turn it into something completely different. There are the ground-up one-off guys who will build things like complete new sandrails with freshly-welded tube spaceframe chassis. There are the kit car guys who will build all sorts of weird replicas of varying degrees of desirability and authenticity. Then there are the tiny boutique manufacturers who mostly just have a few homologation vehicles because every other one they build is destined to die a messy death on a track somewhere.

            It's not as simple as all that.

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday September 14, @03:35PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday September 14, @03:35PM (#1177727) Journal

          This isn't a jobs bill it's an electric car bill.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:54AM (13 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @11:54AM (#1177662)

      What are you talking about, "Establishment Joe"?? You guys were screaming at me he was a radical leftist that will lead this country into a socialist hell within the first year! How can he be a middle of the road establishmentist? Tell me you weren't lying all that time!

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 14, @12:11PM (12 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @12:11PM (#1177666) Homepage Journal

        You'll have to define "you guys" for starters. I don't think I'm one of "you guys". But, "Establishment Joe" is most definitely "Establishment". He's been in Washington longer than most Soylentils have been alive. In fact, I was still in high school when he first went to Washington, in 1972. Joe has had his fingers in ever major piece of legislation passed in the last 49 years. Joe was instrumental in Clinton's war on the "super predators" which sent millions of young black men to prison. Joe voted for the Patriot Act. I could go on, but Joe is very much Establishment, one of the Ruling Class who is above the law. Joe feeds that evil Military Industrial Complex, then feeds off of it. Do I need to go on?

        All of that said, the Establishment is fucked. That is why Trump won. And, that is why half of the country believes that the election was stolen. The Establishment did whatever it took to make sure Trump was defeated, and seated one of their own. But, the Establishment is fucked.

        --
        alles in Ordnung
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ilsa on Tuesday September 14, @01:32PM (8 children)

          by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @01:32PM (#1177682)

          Yes, it was "The Establishment" that defeated Trump. It couldn't possibly have been the fact that Trump is a racist narcissistic Nazi, and that literally any option would have been better than him. Joe won because of record voter turnout.

          Joe is no golden boy but Republicans are outright psychotically evil. They don't even hide it anymore. And until they're replaced with a viable 2nd party that aren't a bunch of assholes, Democrats are the only option.

          • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 14, @01:51PM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @01:51PM (#1177690) Homepage Journal

            “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”

            --
            alles in Ordnung
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @03:53PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @03:53PM (#1177739)

              You really want to put Trump up toe-to-toe with race related quotes against anybody? We can even give you an advantage by keeping context out of it, like in the one that you present. I think even David Duke would come out better than Trump.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @06:48PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @06:48PM (#1177792)

            Trump: racist.

            Enh. Maybe. Didn't really push racism in office. The times everyone screech RACISM!!! as if they were warning about the coming of the vampire plague, I went to read his executive orders and came away with more nuanced impressions, starting from his "MUSLIM BAN" that didn't ban a lot of muslims, and did ban a lot of other people, going forward. So not all that effective at racism, y'know.

            Trump: narcissistic.

            I'll believe that might be relevant when you show me a US president who wasn't.

            Trump: nazi.

            I have not seen one crumb of actual evidence (screeched hearsay doesn't become evidence by virtue of having been screeched) that he supported the policies of the national socialist workers' party of Germany, even translated into the US context. I have seen him push for policies that would have been absolute anathema to them, for example by way of preferring private enterprise to a command economy, and pushing for reductions and simplifications in regulations.

            So, did you have actual specific evidence to support your allegations, or was this just a ritualistic twenty seconds' hate session?

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @07:52PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @07:52PM (#1177824)

              It is merely the millionth time Republican hypocrisy is being pointed out. Joe Biden is a filthy socialist, and a corporate hack. Which is it?

              Don't worry, rhetorical question, we all know conservatives change their tune to suit the issue at hand. They have lost their integrity, morality, and sanity. Nazi is just the slur for fascists, and Trump was definitely a fascist though not necessarily a Nazi.

              https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-hitler-mein-kampf/ [snopes.com]

              Did Donald Trump Say ‘Mein Kampf’ Had a ‘Profound Effect’ on Him?
              The same internet meme quoted Trump as saying he has 'tremendous respect' for Adolf Hitler.

              So yes people made up some claims, but there is a little truth there and you can tell a nerve is hit when Trump says something is "the worst thing ever". So while there is no real proof he is a Nazi doughboy it certainly seems likely he is at least a fan of Hitler.

              "A friend of mine sent me a book. A man who I think is Jewish, although I don’t know, sent me a book."

              Hahaha, wow, even throws in a "my friend is Jewish" to try and counter the obvious implications. He only ever gets really mad when unfavorable facts about him surface, otherwise he just whines like a spoiled brat. There, happy with the tangent into Trump's fascist nature?

              As for his racism? "Enh. Maybe. Didn't really push racism in office. " Lawl, he said so much racist shit as president, mainly tied to illegal immigration. No need to give you citations, some simple web searches will find what you're looking for. Might need to use a private browsing window so your searches are less biased.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @09:58PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @09:58PM (#1177872)

                *sigh* this horseshit again, delivered fresh and fly-covered from the people who have trouble with tough concepts.

                No, Donald Trump's policies did not resemble those of Mussolini. You remember the italian dude Mussolini? The Fascist OG? Donald Trump's policies did not resemble Franco (Spain), Hitler (Germany), or even Verwoerd (South Africa). All of the above were fascists in important policy facets relating to everything from their treatment of the media, nationalisation and indirect management/control of business and industrial policy, authoritarianism and abrogation of the rule of law.

                Words have definitions, and those definitions matter. "Fascist" isn't just a nasty word that tells us all that someone made you wet yourself while crying in the closet, it's a class of policies and structures that define a government philosophy, which had very little in common to do with what Donald Trump either espoused or enacted.

                So, if you want to come up with the claim that Donald Trump was a big, bad, mean, doodoohead FASCIST - be specific on actual policies. Start with increasing and encroaching industrial policy and regulations, and removal of civil liberties. Specifics, not ill-defined whinings about how he might have had a jewish friend (or family member). Because (spoiler alert) if he wasn't interested in removing civil liberties? Not a fascist, go back to square 1.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 15, @01:38AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 15, @01:38AM (#1177934)

                  So you're a braindead moron, thanks for clearing that up!

                • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Thursday September 16, @06:57PM

                  by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 16, @06:57PM (#1178360)

                  At this point you aren't fooling anyone with your dishonest answer. Just because he was _blocked_ from instituting draconian policies doesn't mean he didn't try. Just cause his insurrection attempt failed doesn't mean he didn't try.

                  His fake news thing was a direct pull from Hitler's playbook.

                  The only way you can possibly say he isn't fascist is if you intentionally ignored the landslide of evidence in front of your eyes.

        • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday September 14, @07:12PM (2 children)

          by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @07:12PM (#1177809)

          In what universe is Trump not part of "The Establishment"? Joe Biden is certainly a member, as is pretty much any high ranked member of the Fed and State Govs. You can also include pretty much anyone considered to be part of the 0.1% wealthy.

          Don't delude yourself into thinking that Trump was somehow not an Establishment candidate.

          --
          Dealing out the agony within
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @07:43PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @07:43PM (#1177819)

            If you want to have that broad a concept of the Establishment, then sure. Everyone who runs for an elected park attendant is part of the Establishment. Everyone who runs a business on their local town's main drag is part of the Establishment.

            But if we're talking the governing establishment? They accepted him for one reason, and one reason only: a large number of really angry voters plugged their nose, forced their jaws apart with a stick, and crammed him down their gullet while tears leaked from the corners of their eyes. They couldn't kick him out with undermining the whole myth of their legitimacy - not that they didn't try, within the squirmy wriggles that their wriggleroom afforded them.

            No wonder Hillary had a breakdown when she didn't get elected; she was supposed to win.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @08:15PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @08:15PM (#1177835)

              LOL

              "No wonder Hillary had a breakdown when she didn't get elected; she was supposed to win."

              buttery males buttery males! Don't get excited now, it is just a meme for "but her emails"

              Such projection, and the primary source was an asshole from infowars? Just cracks me up you're still screeching about Hillary Rodham Clinton while your fat conman is busy having a yearlong meltdown about being the biggest loser.

              "They couldn't kick him out with undermining the whole myth of their legitimacy"

              Funny how just 4+ years ago everything was great, the deep state vanquished, the government "establishment" unable to contain the mighty power of Trump! lololol then suddenly they are totally in control AFTER 4 years of your uber manchild.

              More like the Republican shithead Comey threw Clinton under the bus. Hillary would have won if the leftwing wasn't so apathetic due to Democrat corruption. Trump lost 2020 because he was an unpopular fascist pig, not for any other reason.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday September 14, @03:33PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday September 14, @03:33PM (#1177726) Journal

      Yeah, it's a shame how their plan to encourage electric vehicles passed over all those mom and pop auto manufacturers!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @05:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @05:38PM (#1177768)

      Oh, but, Establishment figures like Establishment Joe don't want to see that happen.

      Who do you think Trump would have given the money to?

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Acabatag on Tuesday September 14, @01:48AM (1 child)

    by Acabatag (2885) on Tuesday September 14, @01:48AM (#1177575)

    Which three is that?

    There is Ford, there is General Motors.

    Then there's that Fiat outfit that makes all the fake Jeeps (if it doesn't have a frame it's a Fiat, not matter how they disguise it).

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:25AM (#1177581)

      Got to keep up with current merger & acquisitions-- https://www.stellantis.com/en [stellantis.com]

      Dose Wops merged wit' some Frogs.

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday September 14, @03:25AM (6 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @03:25AM (#1177595) Journal

    This is the Big Three's bid to help them compete with Tesla while they desperately try to catch up in the EV market. But there's so much more they'd have to fundamentally change to do it. First, the ICE model programs have their defenders within those companies, and they will fight to deny or slow down the EVs until their dying breath. Second, they suck at the software to do what Tesla does. Third, their dealership networks hate EVs, will not sell them, and will do everything they can to sabotage EVs because they know those vehicles don't require the maintenance that are the dealerships' bread-and-butter.

    That said, for the USA it would be a very good thing to encourage the transformation of the transportation sector from fossil-fuel driver to EV. The US sends something like $350 billion overseas every year to buy oil. With EVs, all that money stays in America and does its good here.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @09:24AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @09:24AM (#1177646)

      Under Trump, America became the world's #1 oil producer. That hadn't been true for DECADES.
      We produced more oil than Saudi Arabia. Think about that for a minute. Energy security of course could not be tolerated, so the Biden administration shut down as much oil and gas production as it could the minute it took office. 🤡 🌎

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:10PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @12:10PM (#1177665)

        Geeze it is pathetic how you guys will buy anything spoon fed to you and believe it without question. If you want to be strictly pedantic about it, it was during Obama's term [wikipedia.org] that happened (ooh, I know, he HATES it when he can't hold a candle to Obama!). If you want to take a more nuanced approach and look at it regionally, it is true it happened in 2019 [eia.gov], but if you look at those plots, please show me the strong "Trump effect" that you suggest?

        It is like those unemployment numbers where pre-2020 he was taking credit for the lowest unemployment in decades, but the rate had been dropping for more than a decade with the same slope [stlouisfed.org], and he just happened to be the guy in office when he made the claim. (However, it is true that those numbers jumped dramatically up while he was in office, but for some reason it's justified to say he's the cause when riding on the slope, but not his fault when a discontinuous jump happens on his watch--look at that curve from 2010 on: it is a beautiful downward decline when BAM! Look at that jump!).

        • (Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday September 14, @12:19PM (2 children)

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Tuesday September 14, @12:19PM (#1177669)

          That unemployment bump was covid. It wasn't natural at all.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @03:55PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @03:55PM (#1177741)

            That's the point. We're not supposed to count that one, which was directly on his watch AND one he denied was even happening, but we're supposed to give him all sorts of economic credit for riding down the continuous slope as if he had anything to do with that?

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday September 14, @03:12PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday September 14, @03:12PM (#1177712)

        We didn't produce oil, we extracted oil. Those aren't the same thing.

        As for energy security: You back a strong push towards solar and wind and hydroelectric power, right? Because there's absolutely no way for the Saudis, Venezuelans, Russians, Iranians, Chinese, or any other country to shut down the sun shining on the US without also shutting down their own economies too.

        --
        The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:11PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, @02:11PM (#1177693)

    On the one hand, Unions, on the other hand foreign companies...

    Who do they hate more?

  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 14, @03:45PM

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 14, @03:45PM (#1177734) Journal

    Get Robot workers, and let them unionize and demand longer hours and lower pay with no personal time off.

    --
    Biden needs to mandate an official static TCP port for running 'finger' with TLS 1.3.
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