from the anybody-notice-any-pointy-ears? dept.
https://science-news.co/a-new-model-for-a-real-warp-drive-that-doesnt-break-the-laws-of-physics/
In science fiction literature a warp drive is a technology that allows travel faster than the speed of light by warping space-time to beat the speed of light barrier. This is also not entirely impossible in reality. Einstein’s theory of general relativity says you can’t accelerate objects from below to above the speed of light, because that would take an infinite amount of energy, however this restriction only applies to objects in space-time not to space-time itself. Space-time can bend expand or warp at any speed and even physicists think, that the universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So on the spectrum from fiction to science, warp drives are on the more scientific end.
Recently two researchers at Applied Physics have created a new model for a warp drive. They describe it as a model for a space craft that could travel faster than the speed of light, without breaking the laws of physics. The researchers Alexey Bobrick, and Gianni Martire say, that this is the first general model for a real warp drive.
[...] In this new effort to develop a working warp drive, the researchers have taken previous ideas based on warping space-time a step further. Bobrick and Martire created a model which they believe could be feasible in the future. Based on the Alcubierre warp drive idea, both scientists suggest that instead a massive gravitational force could be used to bend space time. The trick to accomplish this is to find a way to compress a planet-sized mass to a much smaller spaceship size to use its gravity. These problems still make it impossible to construct a working warp drive today, however the model is not impossible and suggest that someday in the future it might be possible to create a working drive.
This is entirely separate from the Alcubierre drive.
Journal Reference [*]:
Alexey Bobrick, Gianni Martire. Introducing physical warp drives - IOPscience, Classical and Quantum Gravity (DOI: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6e)
[*] Was not available at time of posting.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:07PM (8 children)
So, a TARDIS?
(Score: 4, Funny) by Tork on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:20PM (1 child)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:39PM
You live on a giant trampoline too?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:28PM (1 child)
Sounds Klingon to me.
(Score: 1) by NPC-131072 on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:48PM
Sounds more like that *cough* other [wikipedia.org] Roddenberry show.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:46PM (3 children)
I'm sorry.
The Doctor is currently reversing the polarity of a neutron stream.
Would you like to leave a message?
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday September 22 2021, @07:27AM (2 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDaCMhKPGys
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday September 22 2021, @07:29AM (1 child)
it's been a very long time since last I watched that episode.
thanks for the correction and link :)
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday September 22 2021, @08:25AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:21PM
DOI Prefix [https:] Not Found
try instead https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6e [iop.org] or arxiv [arxiv.org]
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday September 21 2021, @11:49PM
https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2020/11/warp-drive-news-seriously.html [blogspot.com]
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday September 22 2021, @12:08AM (16 children)
One of the things that never gets mentioned in these articles is HOW the "FTL" drive was wroked out.
They create a metric defining the conditions where FLT could happen and the work backwards to see if it violates General Relativity.
Along the line of "Given; 42= 136 / $X. Solve for $X".
All Alcubierre, these guys, and others like them have done was find out that the conditions they could define that allows FTL don't break GR. Not that the rest of GR actually allows it to happen, or has a mechanism where it can.
So the math works but you have to use values for some of the variables that can't actually happen. That is how these FLT methods end up needing negative energy and matter.
Turns out some other really cool things in physics are like that.
It was very depressing to learn about that part of it :(
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday September 22 2021, @02:32AM (12 children)
If it were found to be possible to build, the Fermi paradox would really bother me.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday September 22 2021, @03:27AM (11 children)
It should bother you anyway. Galactic colonization doesn't rely on FTL.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Wednesday September 22 2021, @08:17AM (3 children)
It's a dark forest out there...
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Wednesday September 22 2021, @12:20PM (2 children)
Stay on the path...
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:42PM (1 child)
stay in your spacetime lane
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:48PM
Along the way, don't pick up stuff off the sidewalk and eat it.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:40PM (6 children)
It does worry me, but I'd be a lot more worried if FTL looked plausible.
I've got this theory that after a group spends several lifetimes getting somewhere, they won't want to leave their vehicle. So if FTL is impossible, that could explain much of the "great filter".
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @06:53PM (1 child)
Kind of like a trip to Disney in the family station wagon?
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Wednesday September 22 2021, @08:09PM
I believe they refer to that as Stockholm Syndrome. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday September 23 2021, @01:52PM (3 children)
I don't think there would be very many generation ships. More likely uploads and AIs which can go into a hibernation mode.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday September 23 2021, @05:41PM (2 children)
The uploads and the AI would, however, probably not be noticable with current tech. A generation ship might well stop by in the Oort cloud to do some mining, and leave traces that could, in principle, be detectable even now.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday September 24 2021, @06:52AM (1 child)
Why wouldn't uploads and AIs do the same thing, mine for resources and use them? Get radioactive materials for deep space power, build more ships and computers, and replicate themselves?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday September 24 2021, @01:34PM
They would, but not the predictable elements. We probably wouldn't recognize the signs that they'd been mining. (E.g., I'd expect them to eat entire asteroids rather than just pieces of them.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday September 22 2021, @08:43AM
Have some physically possible initial conditions set up just right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHTcSKkUU8U
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:09PM
why the fuck would this be depressing?
refrigerators came about exactly from "what if we reversed this equation?", along with other cool inventions.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @02:46PM
Fairly certain that there are some designs that don't depend on negative mass objects.
Some even allow for spaceships as "small" as Jupiter. Infeasible yes, but not impossible.
https://newatlas.com/physics/ftl-warp-drive-no-negative-energy/ [newatlas.com]
I didn't see the "mass of Jupiter" thing in that article, that was from a SciShow video.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:18AM (2 children)
Expand space behind your ship and you shoot off in the other direction. This is why the universe is expanding, millions of alien ships using this drive and expanding space, with no care of the consequences.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Opportunist on Wednesday September 22 2021, @05:09AM (1 child)
So the universe expanding is some kind of interstellar AGW?
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday September 22 2021, @06:11AM
More AGC, as the universe cools down as it expands.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22 2021, @01:45AM (2 children)
A journal link that doesn't exist, researchers at an unknown non-university research center and physics that doesn't seem to make sense?
In particular, compressing a planet down to spacecraft size, while it doesn't violate any laws of physics, seems like it would just be an ordinary (if very small) neutron star. That would sure be interesting, but it wouldn't create a warp drive.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Wednesday September 22 2021, @06:18AM (1 child)
More importantly, even if you would build a warp drive this way, thanks to the large gravitation there's no way you could enter the ship safely. Or even put equipment there without destroying it. So at best it could be used as interstellar weapon.
Having said that, I'm sure the hope is to get down the mass requirements. Just as for the original Alcubierre drive the mass requirement was reduced from more than the universe to about Jupiter mass.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Wednesday September 22 2021, @08:13PM
Don't you just need another mass on the other side that exerts 1G less of force? :) Definitely keep your arms and hands inside the ride at all times!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by deathlyslow on Wednesday September 22 2021, @12:41PM
So the Romulans have/had it right. Just use a singularity drive.