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posted by martyb on Sunday September 26 2021, @03:14AM   Printer-friendly
from the and-also-made-a-return-trip dept.

"Marckalada" mentioned by 14th century Italian monk

Genoan friar knew about America 150 years before Christopher Columbus

Sailors in Christopher Columbus's home town knew about North America more than a century before the explorer discovered the continent, Italian researchers have claimed.

An account by Genoan sailors of a verdant land beyond Greenland "where giants live" has been found in a history of the world written around 1340 by an Italian friar — 152 years before Columbus set foot in the Americas in 1492.

"This astonishing find is the first known report to circulate in the Mediterranean of the American continent, and if Columbus was aware of what these sailors knew it might have helped convince him make his voyage," said Paolo Chiesa, who led the research at the University of Milan.

Journal Reference:
Paolo Chiesa. Marckalada: The First Mention of America in the Mediterranean Area (c. 1340), Terrae Incognitae (DOI: 10.1080/00822884.2021.1943792)

A Monk in 14th-century Italy Wrote About the Americas

A monk in 14th-century Italy wrote about the Americas:

In 2015 Mr Chiesa traced to a private collection in New York the only known copy of the Cronica universalis, originally written by a Dominican, Galvano Fiamma, between around 1339 and 1345. The book once belonged to the library of the basilica of Sant'Ambrogio in Milan. In Napoleonic times, the monastery was suppressed and its contents scattered. The owner of the Cronica let Mr Chiesa photograph the entire book and, on his return to Milan, the professor gave the photographs to his graduate students to transcribe. Towards the end of the project one of the students, Giulia Greco, found a passage in which Galvano, after describing Iceland and Greenland, writes: "Farther westwards there is another land, named Marckalada, where giants live; in this land, there are buildings with such huge slabs of stone that nobody could build them, except huge giants. There are also green trees, animals and a great quantity of birds."

Mr Chiesa says that giants were a standard embellishment of faraway places in Norse folklore and, indeed, Galvano cautioned that "no sailor was ever able to know anything for sure about this land or about its features." The Dominican was scrupulous in citing his sources. Most were literary. But, unusually, he ascribed his description of Marckalada to the oral testimony of "sailors who frequent the seas of Denmark and Norway".

Mr Chiesa believes their accounts were probably passed on to Galvano by seafarers in Genoa, the nearest port to Milan and the city in which the Dominican monk is most likely to have studied for his doctorate.

Columbus a Genoese.


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

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  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @03:34AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @03:34AM (#1181502)

    Look,

    Columbus discovered America

    Washington chopped down the cherry tree

    Armstrong landed on the moon

    After that not much happened

    Let's just leave it at that, okay?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:04AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:04AM (#1181507)

      It's unclear if this should be modded funny or troll :/

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:01AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:01AM (#1181514)

        Lt. Columbo discovered the north valley... (Ahhh.. Van Nuys!)

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:27PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:27PM (#1181597) Journal

          And Armstrong is well known to have been doping when he went to the moon!

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:13PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:13PM (#1181616)

        Dude, that's practically the entire history syllabus. Just add in a couple conservative heros saving Western civilization - Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter - and it's complete.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:30AM (#1181511)

      Runaway saved the 2nd Agumendament with his journal posts on SoylentNews? Do try to keep up!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @10:12PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @10:12PM (#1182019)

      Troll? Offtopic?

      Moderators are being such assholes! Fuck off!

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:15AM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:15AM (#1181509)

    Interesting, because prior to the 19th century, passenger pigeons would create some truly enormous flocks.

    But I can't think of anything that might have inspired the "buildings with huge slabs of stone." Sure, there were pyramids in South America, but Viking sailors probably never got that far south. And the mound builders used dirt, not stone.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:38PM (2 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:38PM (#1181599) Journal

      When i saw "buildings with huge slabs of stone.", i thought of Stonehenge, but then saw this:

      http://nativestones.com/index.htm [nativestones.com]

      Hmmmmm.....

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @03:02AM

        by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @03:02AM (#1181739) Homepage

        Wondering if it might refer to a formation of natural basalt slabs and pillars that if one does not know their origin, can be mistaken for artificial constructions.

        Eg. the Giants Causeway:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant's_Causeway [wikipedia.org]

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday September 27 2021, @11:01AM

        by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday September 27 2021, @11:01AM (#1181816)

        "Optimized for Internet Explorer 6.0"

        *snerg*

        Every one of those stones is smaller than your average standing stones and tomb stones in Northern Europe.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:59PM (#1181627)

      Is it possible they saw igloos and thought they were made of stone, not ice and perhaps assumed blocks had been carved or naturally shaped that way, rather than actually being either ice moved there, or water cast into larger shapes than could have been carried individually? Because that could certainly have given rise to the stones, and the far north outfits might have given rise to the 'giants' even if they weren't as tall, because the necessary insulation to keep them warm made them look much bigger than normal people at that time...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:18PM (#1181630)

      there are megaliths in the USA

  • (Score: 2) by Barenflimski on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:16AM (3 children)

    by Barenflimski (6836) on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:16AM (#1181510)

    Discovered? I s'pose, if you are the King, then your peeps can "discover" something that you haven't pillaged.

    Sailors have been on the seas forever. The Vikings were on the sea from at least 800AD, and probably earlier then that. They didn't just stop at Greenland one afternoon and say to each other... "Well boys, if we go any farther, either we'll fall off the end of the earth or the dragons will get us. Lets just turn around."

    One would think that among sailors, stories of land beyond Greenland had been told for 500 years before the King funded Columbus's trip.

    People knew it was there, but there wasn't much point in going there as everyone had what they needed. But, Kings gotta invest, and who writes the history we all learned?

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:01AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:01AM (#1181525)

      And those Aryan blue-eyed super-race humans got to India. Or vice-versa. Or something.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:17PM (#1181617)

        > And those Aryan blue-eyed super-race humans got to discovered India.

        FTFY (and don't forget saved civilization - thanks for that)

      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:23PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:23PM (#1181634)

        Whites went all over the world and engineered all the pyramids, had advanced tech, etc. Mongoloid "natives" histories say as much and call them White Gods. You probably ascribe to that beady-eyed Jew Diamond's excuse for Whites creating nearly every thing in the modern world as luck and evil (Guns, Germs and Steel). Fuck you, get off the white man's internet.

  • (Score: 2) by ChrisMaple on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:08AM (2 children)

    by ChrisMaple (6964) on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:08AM (#1181515)

    There's evidence in North America of European presence anywhere from 1500 to 3200 years ago. It's difficult to date because it consists of letters in stone.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:15AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:15AM (#1181516)

      Well, yeah. The Vikings were contracted to bolt the northern half of the western hemisphere onto the Old World back then. Hence, the "New World". The Spaniards got the contract for the southern half a few centuries later.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:47AM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:47AM (#1181528)

    Probably not - it's pretty well established that Columbus thought he was going to get to Asia. He thought the world was smaller than it is.

    As for the buildings with huge slabs of stone, it's possible that the Vikings actually did get that far south. https://snr.org.uk/snr-forum/topic/the-danish-viking-presence-in-south-america-1000-c-1250/ [snr.org.uk]

    Even if they only got as far as Virginia or so, stories could have made it there from Mexico.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:24AM (3 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:24AM (#1181530)

      Also, the monk was describing a mythical land inhabited by giants, you can make this non-description of reality fit anything you like. Why not have him describe Antarctica, or Papua New Guinea, or Australia? This just seems like another entry in the collection of pseudohistorical nonsense where you take some vague fuzzy sketch and map it onto what we know today. Piri Reis' map is another example of this, it's supposed to show land areas that weren't known at the time, unless you actually look at the map and see it was just the cartographer making things up as he went along, and if you ignore all the stuff that isn't anything close to what's actually there you can see a few bits where, if you squint just right, might possibly correspond to somewhere where real land exists.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Mockingbird on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:16AM

        by Mockingbird (15239) on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:16AM (#1181532) Journal

        Umberto Eco's Baudolino [amazon.com] points the other direction, towards the east, and the White Huns, but is equally an historical chronicle. Care to purchase a For Sale: Head of John the Baptist. Box of 7. [nytimes.com] Accept no substitutes! Beware of fakes and copies!

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:26PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:26PM (#1181556)
        it's a typical clickbait bullshit story. There should be a way to mod such stories to oblivion with a 'nothing to see here, move along'.
        • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:26PM (#1181636)

          no, it's Jew-suppressed White history.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:21PM (#1181550)

      That's a detail that's routinely screwed up. The best maps of the day had Japan being the most eastern most point of the known world, and Eurpeans had been doing business with the Chinese for centuries by that point. All but the most incompetent captain would have been aware of China being east of India by the 15th century. And they knew for thousands of years that the world was roughly spherical.

      As you say, the real question was whether the world was small enough to reach land again after sailing off into the west before running out of supplies.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bradley13 on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:30AM (3 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:30AM (#1181534) Homepage Journal

    This could also be the hallucinations of someone who ate some funny mushrooms. Or who was just a raving lunatic. Monasteries were not always pleasant places, and they were where some misfits were sent.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:43AM (#1181541)

      Nice timing, the current fortune cookie is:

      QOTD: "It's hard to tell whether he has an ace up his sleeve or if the ace is missing from his deck altogether."

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Mockingbird on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:53AM (1 child)

      by Mockingbird (15239) on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:53AM (#1181543) Journal

      Much like modern academia?

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:22PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:22PM (#1181620)

        Nah, modern academia is more like a Chinese slave colony.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:12AM (10 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:12AM (#1181545)

    The monk wrote that there was a "verdant land where giants live" beyond Greenland. That's not very specific is it? I mean he might have imagined something beyond Greenland just as plausibly as he knew of an actual land there. I'd be more impressed if he had described something that could be reliably connected to North America in some way or other. But the thing about giants screams fantasy more than it does facts.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:23PM (#1181553)

      Yes, a lot of maps from early on had things like sea monsters drawn into the margins to fill out space. Most of them don't have any known real world counterparts. A few, like the sea serpents and mermaids, do at least somewhat resemble actual animals. And up until much more recently, it wasn't practical to camp out in a section of ocean and see if they'd come back to be seen again.

    • (Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:25PM (6 children)

      by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:25PM (#1181567)

      It was the "there are buildings with such huge slabs of stone that nobody could build them" part that totally excluded North America, aside from the Mexican isthmus, as being an actual account of the land there.

      • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @03:10AM (5 children)

        by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @03:10AM (#1181741) Homepage

        Natural basalt structures, perhaps, like the Giants Causeway.

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
        • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday September 27 2021, @10:45AM (4 children)

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday September 27 2021, @10:45AM (#1181809)

          Those are in Ireland. We've had centuries to find others like that in North America. Where are they?

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @02:27PM (3 children)

            by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @02:27PM (#1181868) Homepage

            All over the Pacific Northwest, tho mostly covered in detritus from the post-ice-age floods. (Which floods were considered to be merely Indian legends until geologists sank their hooks into the evidence. Mighty persistent legend.)

            I don't mean something that spectacular, but there are big-ass basalt flows all across eastern Canada, and who knows what a large swath of exposed rock would look like to someone not expecting it. The roof to a giant's buried house? Imagination is not just a modern thing.

            His account is doubtless very confused (and he makes the point that it's hearsay), but if there's anything we should have learned from legends of all sorts, it's that generally there's some grain of truth behind 'em, even if thoroughly distorted. Might just be someone on a boat saw a jutting outcropping along the shore, went "Holy crap, look at that giant's roof!" and here we are today, wondering where the heck it could have been.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
            • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday September 27 2021, @04:17PM (2 children)

              by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday September 27 2021, @04:17PM (#1181896)

              Now the Vikings made it to the Pacific Northwest?

              • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @04:52PM (1 child)

                by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @04:52PM (#1181908) Homepage

                No, was just an example. But who knows, maybe someone else made it there that we don't know about!

                --
                And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @02:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @02:13PM (#1181577)

      But the thing about giants screams fantasy more than it does facts.

      It just comes with the territory when you get your geography rumors from Viking descendants.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:28PM (#1181637)

      no, fucktard. there were likely White giants here. look it up.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:22PM (12 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:22PM (#1181566) Journal

    It's possible that the Italians were relating whispers from the Norse, who had regular contact with the Americas a thousand years ago.

    We know the vikings were at L'Anse aux Meadows, but there's more evidence that they ranged beyond that site to other places in the Americas. First, there's the Nanook site [archaeology-world.com] on Baffin Island where there are signs of Norse presence; the footprint of the buildings there match those of Viking dwellings on Greenland, Iceland, and the Shetlands, as well as artifacts that more closely map to the Norse than to the native Dorset people. Further, they have found elm wood at the site, which does not grow, and never has grown, on Baffin Island or anywhere close.

    At L'Anse aux Meadows they found shells from butternuts, which are not found in Newfoundland. The Vikings had to have sailed further south to find them and bring them back.

    In other words, we know for sure Columbus didn't discover America and that the Norse preceded them by centuries. So it's not all that shocking that after a few centuries the news percolated out to the Italians, and that later on Columbus heard the rumors.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by HammeredGlass on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:27PM (8 children)

      by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:27PM (#1181569)

      It was Columbus' actions that precipitated who came after, not the Norse. That's the difference. Quit obsessing over Viking fishing trips which only inspired tall tales of the big one that got away.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:18PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:18PM (#1181618) Journal

        I agree that's the key difference.

        The archaeologist running the site on Baffin Island reckons the Norse didn't just come out a couple times but had a presence because the walrus ivory, polar bear pelts, and other resources from the area were incredibly valuable, as in, gifts-fit-for-emperors valuable. It makes sense that they wouldn't have wanted to share that by blabbing about it.

        Personally, I think diseases introduced by the Norse to the Americas at that point played a role in the collapse of major civilizations like the Mississippians and their robust populations at that time, but the direct archaeological evidence hasn't turned up yet. That is, they have estimated that Cahokia [wikipedia.org] had a population greater than London's at that time, 14-18,000 inhabitants, but they haven't found the remains of those people.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:38PM (#1181643)

          These civilizations were founded and engineered by Whites, just like ancient Egypt. Mongoloid hunter gatherers only lived there as an underclass until they took over through breeding, slaughter or disease and then couldn't keep the civ functioning without White DNA. Just look at all the formerly-white, now black cities in the USA. Haiti, etc. Same story all over the world, through all time:

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:26PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:26PM (#1181623)

        Hah! Yes, only the official King's voyage is allowed to discover things. No matter that it was already known, and probably common knowledge. All hail King Elon!

        • (Score: 2, Funny) by HammeredGlass on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:23PM

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:23PM (#1181649)

          "common knowledge"

          There must surely be many references you can produce to demonstrate this common knowledge.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:36PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:36PM (#1181653)

        which only inspired tall tales of the big one that got away.

        You mean the Sagas? Not some sagas, The Sagas?

        That's be like saying all Shakespeare did was spin some play-acting lines.

        Maybe they're not part of your culture - do you know the stories of the bodhissatvas either? - but the Sagas are culturally of the first importance, and historically their seafaring successes led to them taking to the sea more, and pillaging and ravishing much of Europe's seaboard.

        If their cultural heroes hadn't come back from halfway around the literal world (not the known world) history would've played out very differently.

        • (Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:32PM (2 children)

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:32PM (#1181665)

          What came of them? Anything on par with what came from the tales told by the Spanish explorers?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:23PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:23PM (#1181703)

            Greenland and Iceland were settled.

    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @02:31PM (2 children)

      by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @02:31PM (#1181869) Homepage

      Butternut hardiness tops out at USDA Zone 3. So there's your exploration boundary, considerably south of Baffin Island.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday September 27 2021, @08:22PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday September 27 2021, @08:22PM (#1181977) Journal

        That probably means they did cross the Gulf of St. Lawrence, which puts them within reach of the St. Lawrence River, Nova Scotia, and the rest of the eastern seaboard.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday September 27 2021, @08:42PM

          by Reziac (2489) on Monday September 27 2021, @08:42PM (#1181985) Homepage

          Not sure where the Zone 3 boundary is, but that sounds about right. American beechnut used to be very common, before canker got most of 'em, so at the time not something worth trading for. More likely they went and found their own.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ilPapa on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:05PM (3 children)

    by ilPapa (2366) on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:05PM (#1181613) Journal

    Coincidentally, they're having a Sopranos marathon on HBO and I just came from watching the episode in season 4 where Silvio gets all bent out of shape because Native Americans are protesting the Columbus Day parade and what the fuck, blacks got MLK Day, and whadda we got? So, they go up to one of the New Jersey indian casinos to ask the chief to intervene and on the way back, Tony does this soliloquy about how fucking Gary Cooper was a real American, strong and silent, and never had to differentiate himself by race or ethnicity or whether he was gay. Christopher, in the back seat, says, "Gary Cooper was gay?"

    Man, that fucking show was funny as hell, but as a proud Italian-American, I have to wonder how an Italian actually discovered America. I mean, jesus, those fucking guys. Think about it: After Da Vinci, Armani, and maybe DiMaggio, who they got? Michelangelo was OK, but he might have been a little light in the loafers, capisce?

    Maybe it's time to lay off the Sopranos marathon for a little while.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:28PM (#1181624)

      Isn't Kim Kardashian an Italian? I mean, that's something.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday September 27 2021, @06:52AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday September 27 2021, @06:52AM (#1181790) Homepage
        -sian is a very Armenian name ending. (E.g. chess GM Petrosian, wailer Sarkisian, and whiner Sarkeesian)
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2) by quietus on Monday September 27 2021, @11:34AM

      by quietus (6328) on Monday September 27 2021, @11:34AM (#1181822) Journal

      Ofcourse, in modern terms he was -- but back in the day, he would be identified as a Genoan.

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