NASA likely to move some astronauts off Starliner due to extended delays:
NASA will not make an official announcement for weeks or months, but two sources say the space agency is moving several astronauts from Boeing's Starliner spacecraft onto SpaceX's Crew Dragon vehicle for upcoming missions to the International Space Station.
The assignments are not final—they have yet to go through the formal approval process of the Multilateral Crew Operations Panel, which includes all international partners—but sources say NASA's rookie astronauts who have not yet flown to space will move off the Boeing vehicle due to its ongoing delays.
The most likely scenario is that Nicole Mann, Josh Cassada, and Jeannette Epps will now fly on the SpaceX Crew-5 mission, targeted for launch no earlier than August 2022 on a Falcon 9 rocket. They are likely to be joined by an international partner astronaut, probably Japan's Koichi Wakata, for the mission.
These represent substantial changes for NASA and its astronauts. Mann has been assigned to the Crew Flight Test for Starliner since August 2018. This is the pivotal flight that will take place after Boeing's upcoming uncrewed test flight of Starliner, Orbital Flight Test-2, or OFT-2. At the time of Mann's assignment, Cassada was assigned to the first operational flight of Starliner, a regular rotation mission to the space station called "Starliner-1." Epps was added to the Starliner-1 mission a year ago.
A NASA spokesperson, Kyle Herring, declined to confirm any information about the new assignments.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @07:51AM (17 children)
At this point, Boeing/etc are becoming national embarrassments. Continuing to give them contracts will only hurt NASA's prestige, Old Space needs to be given the Old Yeller treatment before they bring NASA down with them.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Frosty Piss on Wednesday October 06 2021, @09:26AM (3 children)
Boeing is dead, they just don’t know it yet.
(Score: 3, Informative) by isostatic on Wednesday October 06 2021, @10:17AM
If it's Boeing, I aint going
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by PiMuNu on Wednesday October 06 2021, @11:44AM (1 child)
Note they slipped into loss in 2019 i.e. before covid.
https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYSE-BA/financials-income-statement/ [tradingview.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 06 2021, @12:08PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @09:47AM (12 children)
Aren't they banking on the Vulcan Centaur to be the new workhorse rocket? If that gets delayed, it could be a problem for them.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @10:03AM
Don't you mean Rocinante?
https://screenrant.com/expanse-rocinante-name-miller-holden-don-quixote/ [screenrant.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @01:03PM
About that...
Vulcan is already behind schedule because the engines they're trying to buy from Jeff Bezos are vaporware...
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 06 2021, @03:25PM (9 children)
Probably.
The problem with ULA, through little[1] fault of their own, is that ULA stupidly bet on "suborbital Jeff's" BE-4 engines. Since Blue Origin has lost its weigh and is now focused exclusively on suborbital joyrides, ULA is unlikely to ever see a fright certified BE-4 engine from Blue. ULA might be able to redesign their Vulcan Centaur [wikipedia.org] to work with 1st stage engines from Aerojet Rocketdyne.
National Security launches require at least three successful launches of a rocket before it can be approved for national security payloads. I doubt suborbital-Jeff can deliver a certified BE-4 in 2021. So it isn't until at least sometime in 2022, if that, before ULA could launch any national security payload. At end of 2022, ULA congress has mandated that ULA can't use their Russian RD-180 engines on their older Atlas rocket for national security payloads. Note: all Atlas rockets have been sold, ULA has received their final shipment of RD-180 engines from the Russians. So no new Atlas rockets are likely to be constructed even in 2022. Thus ULA could
loseloose its certification for national security payloads, leaving only SpaceX who is certified for national security payloads, but without the ability to squeeze taxpayers for more money.Chain of events:
* suborbital-Jeff fails to deliver on grandiose promises of BE-4 engine
* ULA loses national security license, scrambles for alternate engine, redesigns Vulcan Centaur, ultimately fails
* Boeing is left with only SpaceX (or SLS, or Russia?) as potential ride to orbit for their Starliner
coffinscapsules* SpaceX laughs
[1] on a properly calibrated meter, somewhat above zero
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @07:19PM (7 children)
I find it very fascinating how the many ardent SpaceX fans who have roundly criticized the ULA monopoly on rockets for so long, are now so gleeful and bursting with excitement to exchange one monopoly for another, all because it's "their guy" who is "winning."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @08:09PM
Their guy is selling launches for cheap, and is promising to make them even cheaper.
Global competition is inevitable, although it may be state-funded.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 06 2021, @08:36PM (1 child)
I for one, do NOT want to see ULA fail.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 06 2021, @11:46PM
A rocket company without an engine is a dead company.. Tory has played his hand well, but there is only so much he can do when he isn't allowed to fix the root problems, and that is entirely on Boeing. If SpaceX is to have a competitor it will need to come from NewSpace. Rocket Lab, Astra, and Firefly seem to be the most likely candidates.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 07 2021, @12:02AM
There are many valid reasons to criticize ULA. Most, if not all, of those reasons are spelled 'Boeing'.
Musk is "our guy" because he delivers. As long as he continues to deliver he will retain that position. The moment he stops delivering we'll drop him like a hot potato. There are others, such as Beck (Rocket Lab), Kemp (Astra), and Markusic (Firefly) who are attempting to deliver. We support them in those efforts, and look forward to their success, because we don't care who "wins", as long as they deliver.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 07 2021, @03:45AM
I'm not gleeful, I'm ANGRY. Stop pigeon-holing people by trying to reduce every matter into 1-dimensional tribal conflicts.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday October 07 2021, @09:47AM (1 child)
The sooner the paper tigers fail, the sooner room opens up in the ecosystem for real competition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 07 2021, @05:11PM
This. The sickening part is just how much time, effort, money, and political capital, is being consumed to keep those paper tigers on life support because they keep the gravy train moving. This is why we can't have nice things. :(
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 07 2021, @01:08AM
A "fright certified" engine is a scary thing to see, even for Halloween.
Rockets are built around their engines like the Warthog [wikipedia.org] was built around the Avenger [wikipedia.org], but with tighter margins. AR doesn't have a methalox engine, let alone a drop-in replacement for the BE-4. While the RS-68 is powerful enough, redesigning a methane rocket for hydrogen means starting over from scratch. A more likely replacement would be the Raptor, and frankly I'd be surprised if they haven't been working on it in secret, but it would still be a lot of work and retooling cost, especially this late in the game, while still only providing lackluster performance due to engine mismatch.
ULA can sustain themselves until the rockets they currently have in inventory have all flown. That is at least five years out, but I don't think it is enough time to recover if BE-4 fails, even if they can get Raptors.
SLS has severe availability restrictions. Even high priority NASA deep space missions can't book flights before 2030 at the soonest, assuming they apply now. Starliner is twice too big for Soyuz, Antares, Neutron, or Beta. That leaves Ariane 5/6 or Falcon 9.
(Score: 1) by FuzzyTheBear on Wednesday October 06 2021, @06:24PM (3 children)
After the last 2 failed attempts .. i mean .. would anyone really want to go and try that wreck ?
might be patched up .. but still the confidence necessary , as far as im concerned just aint there.
Hope NASA ditches the whole Boeing contract.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 06 2021, @08:32PM (2 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Program [wikipedia.org]
Both companies were contracted to do six crewed flights each, not counting the crewed demo mission. SpaceX has launched two, has a launch planned for October 30, and two more for April/October 2022 (or August according to TFA, is that the opposite of a delay?). A year from now, SpaceX could be close to finished. Boeing's first is NET (No Earlier Than) 2022.
I doubt Boeing will get ditched. Even SpaceX was years late to launching crew in the first place. More stuff has to go wrong for Starliner to be kicked to the curb. I guess it could happen if the next uncrewed test is catastrophic.
Too bad Sierra Nevada was kicked out. If there is another round of awards, it would be nice to see them get a spot instead of Boeing.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 06 2021, @08:37PM
True. So true.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 07 2021, @02:17AM
TFA is mistaken. August 2021 was the Starliner flight that scrubbed due to valve issues. Crew 5 is scheduled for October 2022.
It all depends on how badly Boeing continues to screw up and how willing Kathy Leuders is to annoy Congress. That it is taking this long to diagnose the valve issue suggests serious issues with Boeing's process control and record keeping, in addition to the problems uncovered after the previous failed flight test. There has also been no word about the safety culture review, which is worrisome on its own. While SpaceX and Boeing were both late, SpaceX's delays weren't due to incompetence.
If there is anyone who deserves a seat at the table, it is SNC.