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posted by janrinok on Sunday October 10, @11:04PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the I-feel-the-need-for-speed! dept.

People in the U.S. pay more for slower internet than European, Canadian, and Asian counterparts, according to the Open Technology Institute:

A survey conducted earlier this year by the Pew Research Center found that 7% of Americans lack access to reliable broadband. One reason for this may be how expensive internet access is in the U.S.

"People in the U.S. pay more for slower internet than people abroad," Open Technology Institute policy analyst Claire Park said. "For many consumers, the cost of getting online right now is simply too high and also too complicated."

The Open Technology Institute has been studying the price and speed of internet services advertised within the United States as well as abroad. Its 2020 Cost of Connectivity Report found that the average advertised monthly cost of internet in the U.S. is $68.38, which is higher than the average price of internet access for all of North America, Europe and Asia.

Outdated infrastructure in the U.S. may also be impeding internet access to millions of Americans, and lawmakers have been debating how to increase internet availability and performance.


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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @11:15PM (12 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @11:15PM (#1186012)

    We gave a ton of money to the telecommunications companies to build infrastructure and they gave it to share holders. That should have received a damn hard smack down from the government, but we let them get away with it. Time to push through a Federal law allowing localities to complete with Municipal Internet. That will lower prices really fast.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday October 11, @12:15AM (2 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday October 11, @12:15AM (#1186018) Journal

      Because they can buy our politicians cheaply

      It would be elitist to vote for more expensive politicians

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @06:15AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @06:15AM (#1186080)

        If the last year taught us anything, it is that you need to be a billionaire Internet or media conglomerate to get representation in government.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday October 11, @03:52PM

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday October 11, @03:52PM (#1186172) Journal

          No different from any other year.. Vote for billionaires, you get billionaires

          --
          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:31AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:31AM (#1186023)

      》 Time to push through a Federal law allowing localities to compete with Municipal Internet

      Better yet: pass law allowing Native Americans to compete with Turtle Island Internet. Faster than a speeding eagle, more bandwidth than a mighty buffalo, and cheaper than the glass trinkets used to pay for Manhattan. Turtle Island Internet... expensive, but we owe them for all the atrocities and whatnot.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:56AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:56AM (#1186026)

      They didn't just "get away with it", they were given billions more in subsidies to pay for the work that they still haven't done, while suing anyone who actually tried to provide service.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday October 11, @01:40AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday October 11, @01:40AM (#1186035) Journal

      Time to push through a Federal law...

      Who's gonna do it? Not this congress... House needs sweeping

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday October 11, @01:11PM (5 children)

      by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday October 11, @01:11PM (#1186118)

      Averaging out people in the U.S. and comparing them to places like Europe is an apples to oranges comparison if ever there was one considering how so much more of the U.S. is rural in comparison which has exponentially higher infrastructure costs for more recent technologies. Also why the U.S. will never be the railroad utopia that railfans and authoritarian lefties wish it would become.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:42PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:42PM (#1186144)

        Bullshit. We have less rural population than France, Germany, or Spain. Sure, we have lots of unpopulated void, but the carriers aren’t even bothering with them. The problem of price differential is in the urban centers where they actually provide service.

        • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday October 11, @05:13PM (3 children)

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday October 11, @05:13PM (#1186207)

          Europe - https://i.imgur.com/FwkBPMZ.jpg [imgur.com]

          vs.

          America - https://i.imgur.com/6IJ45F9.jpg [imgur.com]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @05:17PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @05:17PM (#1186208)

            Thank you for conceding the point so succinctly.

            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by HammeredGlass on Monday October 11, @05:36PM (1 child)

              by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday October 11, @05:36PM (#1186212)

              Put your color blind glasses on, you cowardly dog.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @10:32PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @10:32PM (#1186304)

                Uhm… so you think that by having larger areas of lesser density means we have a proportionally greater population of rural residents? Spoiler: WE DON’T. The bottom line is that 85% of this country live in urban centers. It really doesn’t matter if that remaining fifteen percent have 0bps at $infinity for purposes of the comparison at hand.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:30AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:30AM (#1186021)

    Well, you know, as is easily forgotten, capitalism (in all its many forms), always requires a homo economicus to be at work. If you have some of those, then it more or less works. Exhibit A: the other countries.

    Nobody ever said it would also work with homo stultus.

    And don't come around now with our politicians, and corruption, and two-party system, and regulatory capture, and ......... this stuff exists just the same everywhere! Or do you honestly think there's no public/private revolving door in other places? Yet somehow these peoples' system works better for the end user! Do your root cause analysis, and be amazed. Or apalled.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:30AM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:30AM (#1186030)

    Just wait until you see The comparisons for Heathcare and education

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @04:00AM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @04:00AM (#1186064)

      We are the most powerful country, and at the same time, we are a third-world country losers.

      I wonder if the dying days of Roman Empire was like this.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @04:12AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @04:12AM (#1186065)

        I wonder if the dying days of Roman Empire was like this.

        I wonder if the dying days of Roman Empire were like this.

        Sheesh. No wander you're innernet sux. You cain't even use werds proper.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:51AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:51AM (#1186086)

        we are a third-world country losers

        That would be called a shithole country.

      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Monday October 11, @07:52AM (4 children)

        by driverless (4770) on Monday October 11, @07:52AM (#1186087)

        We are the most powerful country, and at the same time, we are a third-world country losers.

        I wonder if the dying days of Roman Empire was like this.

        Not entirely. Rome had bread and circuses, the US has Netflix and Pornhub.

        • (Score: 4, Touché) by Opportunist on Monday October 11, @08:57AM (1 child)

          by Opportunist (5545) on Monday October 11, @08:57AM (#1186094)

          The US has fast food and Netflix.

          So yes, entirely.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday October 11, @12:21PM (1 child)

          by Thexalon (636) on Monday October 11, @12:21PM (#1186109)

          I'm not seeing any massive difference between chariot races and NASCAR, nor between gladiator games and the NFL. And as for the bread, I'd think that's best exemplified by the McDonald's dollar menu, which is usually more accessible to poor people than anything resembling healthy food.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 12, @12:20AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 12, @12:20AM (#1186324)

            You could probably fly a Confederate flag at a chariot race. If anyone complained, shove a sword through 'em.

      • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday October 11, @01:28PM

        by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Monday October 11, @01:28PM (#1186122)

        Bullshit. We have some problems, but that doesn't by any means make us a third world country. 7% of people answering No to the question "Do you use the internet or email, at least occasionally?" is a long way from that.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Monday October 11, @05:12PM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @05:12PM (#1186206) Journal

        Byzantium was infamous for bureaucracy and corruption. America isn't quite that bad, not yet. More like, we've replaced Caligula with Claudius. I hope the correspondence doesn't continue, as Claudius' successor was Nero.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 11, @04:07PM (1 child)

      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @04:07PM (#1186177) Journal

      It's not that simple. Doctors from around the world train in the US. Doctors in the US don't, generally speaking, go to, say, Congo to train in their field.

      Students from around the world clamor to go to US universities. They don't clamor to go to college in North Korea.

      If you can afford healthcare in the US, it is high quality. If you can afford to go to college, it is high quality.

      Then, of course, you have the questions of whether it's better to have low quality healthcare for everyone or what the US has, or if college is the right sort of secondary education for everyone vs., say, a good trade school.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @11:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @11:10PM (#1186310)

        "Then, of course, you have the questions of whether it's better to have low quality healthcare for everyone or what the US has, or if college is the right sort of secondary education for everyone vs., say, a good trade school."

        Universal healthcare wouldn't lower the quality of healthcare, that is a typical red herring. Secondary education should be whatever the student wants, college or trade school. Why do you make such negative assumptions?

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by srobert on Monday October 11, @02:05AM (23 children)

    by srobert (4803) on Monday October 11, @02:05AM (#1186042)

    Converts dollars to yen, yuan, rupees and euros, according to current exchange rates, then does a comparison of costs elsewhere with the "average advertised monthly cost in the U.S.". This is too confusing to be enlightening.

    Some of the currencies are used in countries where, according to the official exchange rates, 1 U.S dollar will buy a man's labor for half the day. Moreover, ISP's in the U.S. advertise the special introductory price, not the monthly price you actually pay after you've been with them for a while.

    Perhaps a more useful metric would be, "In your country how many hours does a typical working class person work to make enough money buy a month of internet service at the regular price?".
    I'm in the U.S. I'd say it's in the ballpark about 2 to 4 hours.
    So you guys in other parts of the world, how much time does someone work in your country to get a month of internet service?

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Coligny on Monday October 11, @02:25AM

      by Coligny (2200) on Monday October 11, @02:25AM (#1186047)

      I -in all seriousness- think that’s why the “Big Mac index” is for.
      Created by the economist to compare purchasing power between countries.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday October 11, @02:58AM (3 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday October 11, @02:58AM (#1186058) Journal

      I price my labor in beer. In most countries about a case an hour oughta do it.

      Internet should be like the roads, common carrier dumb pipe paid for by taxes

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 2) by srobert on Monday October 11, @01:54PM (1 child)

        by srobert (4803) on Monday October 11, @01:54PM (#1186130)

        Beer is as good an index as any. So, how many cases of beer for a month of internet service?

        • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday October 11, @11:59PM

          by krishnoid (1156) on Monday October 11, @11:59PM (#1186316)

          Sure, but I'd prefer the metric of, "If you drink beer while using the Internet in your country, what quality beer would it be for the beer-to-internet cost to be in parity? Please specify a price per bottle, or a brand if you prefer."

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @03:44PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @03:44PM (#1186166) Journal

        I price my labor according to number of tasks which can be avoided or delayed.

        --
        Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by deimtee on Monday October 11, @04:20AM (4 children)

      by deimtee (3272) on Monday October 11, @04:20AM (#1186066) Journal

      In Oz, four hours of minimum wage would easily get you a month of 100Mb(down) / 20Mb(up) internet. Two hours of the average wage, or an hour or so of a professional salary.

      --
      No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
      • (Score: 2) by srobert on Monday October 11, @02:08PM (3 children)

        by srobert (4803) on Monday October 11, @02:08PM (#1186134)

        I don't know where Oz is, but I pay $70 for 25 Mbps. In Las Vegas, minimum wage is $9.75 an hour. So for someone on minimum wage that would be over 7 hours. I imagine they'd want a slower speed. And the average wage is on the order of $23 / hr, so about 3 hours work for a month of internet.

        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday October 11, @03:02PM (1 child)

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday October 11, @03:02PM (#1186152) Homepage Journal

          Oz is Australia. Here in Springfield, IL I'm paying AT&T $60/month for 100 mbps. Could have gigabit for an extra ten bucks, but since I'm no longer a gamer I just don't need it.

          As to the minimum wage, that is the root of most of the US's problems. Why is it legal to pay so little that someone working full time is eligible for LINK (formerly Food Stamps), housing assistance, and child care? Food, clothing, shelter, child care should be the employer's responsibility, not the government's. Those benefits benefit employers, not employees.

          --
          Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
        • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday October 11, @11:29PM

          by deimtee (3272) on Monday October 11, @11:29PM (#1186313) Journal

          Australia.
          25 Mbps would be a cheaper plan. 2 hours of minimum wage per month. AUD $40, about US $28.

          https://www.whistleout.com.au/Broadband/Cheapest-Internet-Plans [whistleout.com.au]
          Typical internet comparison site for AU plans. Note that all of these plans are mostly available anywhere. The infrastructure is owned by the NBN, who charge ISP's, but not the end customers.

          --
          No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
    • (Score: 1) by mjrider on Monday October 11, @06:14AM

      by mjrider (5489) on Monday October 11, @06:14AM (#1186079)

      That would be 1,5 to 2 hours of work(depending on the chart i use for the average income), and that gives me a 1 gigabit symmetrical.
      If i would go the 'yeah, but i also want tv and a mobile subscription and buying them all at the same provider makes it cheaper' route, 1 hour of work

      both offers are unlimited in gigabytes per month

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @08:39AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @08:39AM (#1186093)

      OK - for me, a month of internet at 60.6Mbps down/22.4Mbps up, unlimited data, including VOIP phone and a DTV box (tested just then) is under an hour of my time, or about 10 minutes of my wife's time.

      What does that do to your comparisons?

      • (Score: 2) by srobert on Monday October 11, @02:15PM

        by srobert (4803) on Monday October 11, @02:15PM (#1186135)

        It makes me ask, where are you? and is your wage an average one there?

    • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Monday October 11, @09:04AM (6 children)

      by Opportunist (5545) on Monday October 11, @09:04AM (#1186095)

      Minimum wage is about 1600 a month here (which means about 9 bucks an hour), with 100/20 Internet costing approximately 30-40 bucks, depending on what ISP you prefer.

      If you're happy with less, you can get it for as little as 12 bucks a month, but who'd want to exist on 10mbit down, 1mbit up internet?

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday October 11, @03:10PM (2 children)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday October 11, @03:10PM (#1186153) Homepage Journal

        I was happy with it until I got a 4k TV. 4k needs 25 megs.

        --
        Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
        • (Score: 5, Funny) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @03:51PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @03:51PM (#1186171) Journal

          If you would like to be notified when internet service will be offered in your area, please enter your email address in the box below.

          --
          Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
          • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday October 12, @12:12AM

            by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday October 12, @12:12AM (#1186319)

            Funny you say that, but you can imagine that in a lot of developing nations (and poorer neighborhoods), cellular data service is the primary/only Internet service feasible for many families. A few obvious cases would be homeless people or nomadic types.

      • (Score: 2) by SDRefugee on Monday October 11, @05:01PM (2 children)

        by SDRefugee (4477) on Monday October 11, @05:01PM (#1186198)

        Shit.. I live in Las Vegas, and I have a choice of Cox, CenturyLink or LVNet. With Cox I get 150/10 for $87/mo, with CL, I get 10mbps for $49/mo, and I forget the rate at LVNet, but as I recall its wireless, and costs more than Cox for less speed. The fun part of this equation, is a friend of mine, who lives a whopping 4 whole blocks from me, who WAS on Cox, is now on CL WITH A FIBER CONNECTION at 100/100 and to twist the knife a bit more, he gets that for their $49/mo "Lifetime" plan.. Here I am 4 blocks from him and all I can get from CL is 10mbps for the same $49/mo "lifetime", so I keep feeding the "Three Letter Monster" otherwise known as Cox their $88/mo.

        --
        America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
        • (Score: 2) by srobert on Monday October 11, @10:32PM (1 child)

          by srobert (4803) on Monday October 11, @10:32PM (#1186305)

          Well now I feel ripped off. I'm in Vegas paying Centurylink $70 / mo. for 25 Mbps from a fiber optic. How'd did he get the $49 deal?

          • (Score: 2) by SDRefugee on Tuesday October 12, @04:18PM

            by SDRefugee (4477) on Tuesday October 12, @04:18PM (#1186447)

            I don't know.. He called me up one day to tell me to check with CenturyLink as he'd just dumped Cox. He's not a techie like me, so I had to read between the
            lines to figure out he'd gotten fiber. I asked him how much it was costing, and turns out he had been on the same Cox tier as me, that being their "preferred" at 150/10 and $88/mo. He then said he was paying $49/mo on their "lifetime" plan. I IMMEDIATELY called CL and was told the most I could get was 10mpbs DSL. Yeah, right, I'm going to dump 150/10 for 10mbps??? Not in this lifetime, Sparky.. I guess that whopping 4 blocks is the difference between 100/100 fiber and 10mbps DSL.. So damn sick and tired of Cox..

            --
            America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday October 11, @12:28PM (2 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Monday October 11, @12:28PM (#1186111)

      I think your estimate is quite low for the US, at least in my area: Regularly-priced Internet service in my area of the USA goes for $75 a month. For a tipped minimum-wage employee such as a restaurant waiter, that could be as much as 30 hours if their boss is stealing their tips or the customers are assholes who don't tip. For a minimum-wage employee such as fast food and many agricultural workers, that's 10 hours of labor. For somebody working retail, that's typically 6-8 hours. Highly educated professionals make that in about 0.5-1 hours. But there are a lot more people at the lower end of the pay scale than the high end, so I'd pin it at roughly 7 hours of labor to pay for Internet.

      --
      The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday October 11, @01:45PM (1 child)

        by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Monday October 11, @01:45PM (#1186128)

        Does your area still, today, have jobs that pay minimum wage? ... and they are still in business?

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday October 11, @02:26PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Monday October 11, @02:26PM (#1186138)

          Yes: Agricultural and landscaping work mostly in my rural area. Where I used to live in a major city, it was even more common.

          The cost of living is low enough that approximately 120 minimum wage hours per month is enough to eke out rent, food, and utilities. Not easy, but possible.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Coligny on Monday October 11, @02:21AM (7 children)

    by Coligny (2200) on Monday October 11, @02:21AM (#1186045)

    Yes, we know, everything is better with capitalism thaks to the magic or the free market.
    We all remember the speech from that retarded mouthbreathing actor turned political sockpuppet.
    Stop making us all jealous please…

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:57AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:57AM (#1186057)

      that retarded mouthbreathing actor turned political sockpuppet

      Reagan? You're going way back to Reagan?

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:29PM (#1186112)

        Reagan was the most destructive President since Pierce and Buchanan. The only reason he wasn't worse is that we didn't get a civil war after he left office.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @03:47PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @03:47PM (#1186168) Journal

        Would you rather have Regan or Ayn Randy?

        --
        Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:30AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:30AM (#1186084)

      Telecommunications hasn't been a free market since Alexander Graham Bell was still alive. That is a big part of what's wrong with it. It either needs to be a government operated utility or fully open to competition, none of this government mandated monopoly garbage.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by sjames on Monday October 11, @09:21AM

        by sjames (2882) on Monday October 11, @09:21AM (#1186097) Journal

        Actually, free competition was tried briefly. The result was a rats nest of phone wires and you had to have 3 phones on your desk (with 3 different numbers) because companies A,B, and C had no agreement to route calls between them. Also, there were problems like the one Strowger finally solved where local operators would be paid off to route business calls meant for A to company B instead.

        Strong regulation will always be necessary to stop that crap from returning.

    • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Monday October 11, @09:09AM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Monday October 11, @09:09AM (#1186096)

      Well, it is! You should try it instead of your corporate welfare state where you prop up your failed businesses with taxpayer money.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by mcgrew on Monday October 11, @03:18PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday October 11, @03:18PM (#1186158) Homepage Journal

      His "a rising tide lifts all boats" was a truthful lie. A rising tide does indeed lift all boats, but his capital cains tax cut was in no way a rising tide; my hours were cut by 30% because somebody wanted to buy up Disney and carve it up for real estate. Reagan was a shitty president.

      --
      Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:25AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @02:25AM (#1186046)

    If you are in an area with coverage from Verizon, they have a wholly owned subsidiary, Visible with reasonably priced unlimited data.

    There is a subreddit where folks advertise their "friends and family" groups, that you can join and get unlimited voice, text, and data for $25/mo (prepaid). Visible bills each member of the group separately, there is no financial liability etc. for other group members.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/VisiblePartyPay/ [reddit.com]

    Visible throttles tethered traffic to 5Mb/s. You can bypass the throttle by using a ROM that allows you to tunnel tethered traffic through the vpn connection on the phone (e.g., LineageOS or CalyxOS), and use Cloudflare's Warp VPN (which is fast, free, and no more of a privacy risk than allowing Verizon/Visible to snoop on your traffic). This setup will get you 75Mb/s down and 25Mb/s up on your tethered traffic. Latency is quite a bit higher than your typical cable Internet, though. But, perfectly acceptable for regular ssh (no need to use mosh). But, if you play video games, maybe not up to snuff? I don't play video games, so can't say.

    Or, if you are capable of doing a custom build of AOSP or your rom of choice, you can edit the APN list to allow tethering on Visible's main APN, and they no longer identify the traffic as tethered. If you do this, you might want to adjust packet TTL for traffic from tethered box (so before it exits phone, it is 255) to make it non-obvious that it is tethered, in case they ever check. Or, if your phone is rooted, just set TTL to 255 for tethered traffic, with iptables rules right on the phone. Same speeds as with the VPN solution, though.

    Visible breaks your ability to edit APNs on the running device as soon as the sim is installed. This is why they claim you need to use only a few compatible phones. But, if you can install a very recent e.g., CalyxOS or LineageOS on your device, it should include Visible's APN (may identify on phone as Verizon, though), and work as long as LTE bands etc. match between phone and Visible/Verizon.

    I run a home made AP/router (hostapd on vanilla Debian), and tether to it over usb which provides power to the phone. But, you may be able to rig something up with one of those usb-c power and data splitter thingies that supposedly allow you to attach a usb device to the phone, and still provide power. With that power thing and a usb-ethernet dongle, you could probably use a commercial router/ap. Or, if the area you want to provide service to is small, just use the phone's wireless tethering to provide the AP.

    If you live in an area where Verizon's infrastructure already has too many users, this might not be a great solution for you. Visible traffic will be deprioritized if capacity is needed for full charge Verizon customers. I haven't seen it with Visible in my area, but when I used Mint (which used T-Mobile towers), deprioritization by T-Mobile could be brutal when it occurred.

    One last thing. The last time I checked, Verizon 5G was slower than Verizon 4G. And, verizon/visible is reported to break unlocking boot loader on some google phones they sell. But, you can bring you own phone.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:01AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:01AM (#1186060)

      CalyxOS enables Ethernet tethering. I haven't seen it elsewhere.

      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday October 11, @07:31AM (2 children)

        by RS3 (6367) on Monday October 11, @07:31AM (#1186085)

        From the too dumb to know better dept: I often use my phone as "hotspot" (cell data <-> WiFi), then Windows 7 machine with "Internet Connection Sharing" from Wifi <-> Ethernet. I dunno, it works.

        And this is all because I don't want to deal with the myriad contract and cost games and shenanigans of the Verizons, Comcasts, etc. So I'm using my cell and although I'd love to have a fast land-based line, I surely don't need it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:42PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:42PM (#1186113)

          I did this for a few years. Lived on 3GB per month via cell.

          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday October 14, @12:50AM

            by RS3 (6367) on Thursday October 14, @12:50AM (#1186836)

            I have 8GB / month presently. I can upgrade to 20 or maybe even more now. This carrier doesn't seem to restrict based on "tethering". Maybe they do and I don't notice. If I hit the 8 GB, I still have 'net connection, but it slows to like 100 Kb / second. I think I went over 8 only 1 time. I have full speed unlimited GB at work and various other places I work and frequent so I wait to do updates, downloads, etc., at those locations.

            I keep hearing about "mesh networking" - I'm all in! Sign me up! :)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @08:15AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @08:15AM (#1186089)

      No such tethering limitations here in the Nordic countries. Just turn on hotspot on the phone. The speed/data limits of the phone contract apply, but there's no separate limits on tethering.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:44PM (#1186167)

        Yeah, and you also had 100Mb/s powerline Internet access in 2001 when we were lucky to get 3Mb/s DSL in the states.

        The US population, for the most part, doesn't travel, and so they don't know what the rest of the world is like. The US has fewer people with passports than Australia has people abroad, at any time (pre-covid); Just New York City and Los Angeles have half the population of the entire country of AU. Because the US is so insular, the media controlled by private moneyed interests (i.e., right-wing/pro-establisment), and our education system teaches hero worship instead of our actual history let alone history or current events elsewhere in the world, we have an ignorant population*. The clown with the US flag streaming from the back of his pickup truck chanting USA, USA, USA has no idea that the rest of the first world has it better than he does.

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday October 11, @03:20PM (2 children)

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday October 11, @03:20PM (#1186159) Homepage Journal

      Verizon is a phone company. Only phones work on their network... or are you one of the muggles who thinks your phone is the internet?

      Are you lost, little one?

      --
      Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @03:30PM (#1186164)

        I spoke of how to use the phone data connection tethered to an AP or router to provide unlimited Internet access to all the devices e.g., computers in your home. What part of that did you not understand "little one"?

        Tethered 75Mb/s down 5Mb/s up for $25/mo is about half as expensive as the equivalent service from the cable co. in my area. And, is 15 times faster than the fastest DSL service available in my area. But, if you have more money than brains...

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Monday October 11, @04:34PM

        by RS3 (6367) on Monday October 11, @04:34PM (#1186187)

        More and more cell phone providers are converting to VOIP / VoLTE only- no more 3G/4G/LTE (SS7) voice.

        Basically they're converting from "circuit-switched" (SS7) to "packet-switched" networking. Many are providing an app you install to make voice calls if your phone doesn't natively support VOIP / VoLTE.

        This might help explain: https://www.netmanias.com/en/post/blog/10905/lte-volte/part-1-what-happens-when-a-user-performs-a-voice-call-from-an-lte-4g-network-overview [netmanias.com]

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by ElizabethGreene on Monday October 11, @01:37PM (2 children)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Monday October 11, @01:37PM (#1186124)

    The only question actually asked in the Pew study was:

    Do you use the internet or email, at least occasionally?

    7% of the 1202 Cell Phone and 300 Land Line phone respondents said no.

    TFS and TFA both state that the Pew study asked about access to reliable broadband. The data does not say that. Then again, who cares if a source says what you want it to say? Just make it up and no-one will actually check.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @03:50PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @03:50PM (#1186169) Journal

      Was this Pew study conducted exclusively using email?

      --
      Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
      • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday October 12, @02:33AM

        by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Tuesday October 12, @02:33AM (#1186345)

        No, via phone. I would be curious how different the results would be if they'd asked about gmail, facebook, and youtube, etc. i.e. what proportion of people don't grok that those would be included in "Internet or email".

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:35PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @07:35PM (#1186256)

    But internet is like $15/month here. Free for poor people.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:04AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:04AM (#1186555)

      And the Detroiter outs himself!

  • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday October 12, @03:27PM (1 child)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Tuesday October 12, @03:27PM (#1186432)

    Christiana TN USA (Rural). $108.79/month Speedtest.net says 432.65 Mbps down, and 222.15 Mbps up, but I've seen much higher speeds previously so those numbers are suspect.

    Nominally it's Gig fiber.

    What's it cost? Well, that's complicated because At&t.

    The "Monthly Charges" for internet 1000 is $75, including $10 off because I have a "bundle".
    The "Bundle" includes TV which I don't use, but the bundle is the only way to get unlimited data.
    The cost of the TV service is $19 for basic service and almost that again in fees.
    * 9.99 Broadcast tv fee
    * 0.08 Regulatory Video cost recovery fee
    * 2.77 TN Local Video Service Franchise Fee
    * 0.83 for county sales tax
    * 2.12 for state sales tax

    All up I pay 108.79 monthly for gig fiber internet service. That's about 9 hours at the local chic-fil-a $12.50 starting pay. I couldn't find a median hourly wage for the US, but the Median annual wage is 34,248.45. Dividing that by 2080 hours gives an hourly rate of $16.47 gives 6.6 hours of the median wage with very large error bars on it because I did some fuzzy math. A $16/hour job isn't hard to find here; e.g. The local Cold Storage warehouse pays that to start, has a raise at 90 days, benefits, and all the overtime (time-and-a-half) you would ever want to work.

    I'm super lucky to be able to get fiber here. They were running it to a new construction subdivision nearby and I happened to be on the route. One road north or south and I'd be on DSL or Starlink. It's reasonable to assume that those would wash out to costing about the same. I could less than half my current rate on fiber if I went with a slower plan and a data cap, but it's worth it to me.

  • (Score: 2) by GreatOutdoors on Tuesday October 12, @06:05PM

    by GreatOutdoors (6408) on Tuesday October 12, @06:05PM (#1186476)

    I have $7,000 invested in a 120' tower so I can get internet at my home. There is a town 5 miles from my house that has fiber, but there is no interest from the internet companies in running anything outside the city other than rural wireless. I have reasonable speeds after my investment (20/10m), but any significant game downloads or video work kills my connection for hours. I have thought about competing but the cities all tend to have sole source agreements, and it locks out the competition.

    --
    Yes, I did make a logical argument there. You should post a logical response.
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