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posted by janrinok on Wednesday October 13, @02:28PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the what-about-shift-workers dept.

UK Proposes Law To Switch Off EV Home Chargers During Peak Hours:

The United Kingdom plans to pass legislation that will see EV home and workplace chargers being switched off at peak times to avoid blackouts.

Announced by Transport Secretary Grant Shapps, the proposed law stipulates that electric car chargers installed at home or at the workplace may not function for up to nine hours a day to avoid overloading the national electricity grid.

As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it's not clear how often they will be able to do that.

[...] In addition to the nine hours a day of downtime, authorities will be able to impose a "randomized delay" of 30 minutes on individual chargers in certain areas to prevent grid spikes at other times.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @02:50PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @02:50PM (#1186657)

    Price peak time power high enough that smart people would self limit their charging times. Then you could reduce peak power usage for more than just car charging.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 13, @04:58PM (13 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 13, @04:58PM (#1186696)

      Or, encourage people and localities to install their own clean generation sources and avoid grid dependency. Of course, this is the UK, so solar isn't a great option - though that hasn't deterred Deutschland.

      --
      John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday October 13, @05:00PM (8 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @05:00PM (#1186698) Journal

        The UK could research how to generate electricity from rainfall.

        Or wave power. Or offshore windmills. Nevermind that Trump says that the sound from windmills causes cancer.

        --
        Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:03PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:03PM (#1186700)

          You've got that long-TDS, Danny boy. You know it's going to interfere with your ability to do anything other than shitpost.

          • (Score: 5, Touché) by DannyB on Wednesday October 13, @05:07PM (3 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @05:07PM (#1186703) Journal

            I rarely mention him. But he did say what I described. What's the matter? Don't you take your own supreme being's warning seriously?

            --
            Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:09PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:09PM (#1186704)

              I rarely mention him.

              So, you're practicing a comedy routine?

              • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 13, @09:02PM

                by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @09:02PM (#1186782) Journal

                Talking about covid, vaccines, and various political topics is not an express or implied mention of the T one who shall not be named.

                --
                Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 13, @06:12PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 13, @06:12PM (#1186720)

              Hard to tell if the windmill caused cancer in the bird or not, when the bird has been smacked out of the air 200' above ground and plummets to a grisly death below.

              Too bad carrot top doesn't insist on implementing his own big brained ideas on himself...

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:15PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:15PM (#1187147)

          Parent said:
          "The UK could research how to generate electricity from rainfall."

          It's called a DAM.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:21PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:21PM (#1187149)

            -nomsg

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:25PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:25PM (#1187152)

              Note: Author of parent reply and grandparent reply are same AC: me.
              "re-read" scans the same as re-red or re-reed.

      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday October 14, @12:50PM (3 children)

        by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 14, @12:50PM (#1186953)

        Or, encourage people and localities to install their own clean generation sources and avoid grid dependency.

        The same problem will remain.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 14, @01:15PM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 14, @01:15PM (#1186957)

          The same problem will remain.

          Not if independent owners of generation and storage capacity are allowed to determine what to do with that capacity: use or share.

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Nuke on Thursday October 14, @04:28PM (1 child)

            by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 14, @04:28PM (#1187009)

            The problem is not with bureaucrats dreaming up arbitrary rules, it is with physical capacity. Generate how you like, centrally or locally, but if everyone wants to charge their cars at the same time (and they will) you will need a larger capacity than if the loading is spread out timewise.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 14, @05:20PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 14, @05:20PM (#1187025)

              I suspect that self-owned or even locally owned generation and storage capacity would tend to grow to meet time-spike needs faster than a national grid that "feels" that it should be able to spread the load by passing regulations. Also, if excess capacity in local generation can be sold into a wide area grid with storage, that could be a very good model for how to use a large grid in the future.

              Florida and Houston Texas must have high baseline loads or something, because I have never experienced "demand pricing" for electricity in my life in either place. I do think if generation decentralized, the remaining central grid would get more extreme with demand pricing due to the fact that it would be used less, and probably "spikier", so the demand pricing should reflect that. Good? Bad? matter of opinion.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by looorg on Wednesday October 13, @02:54PM (8 children)

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday October 13, @02:54PM (#1186660)

    So first they trick people into buying an electric car via various incentives and fuzzy feelgood thinking then they are now instituting random recharging? So you are never really sure that you can use the car when you actually need it or want to use it. Brilliant!

    While the exact hour for what is considered to be "peak hours" might change a bit from place to place it's normally something around 07-08 in the morning to about 20-22 in the evening. So more or less EVERYTHING that isn't considered to be the night. So you may only charge your car during the night. Why not just say that? Non of that leaving the car to charge while you are at the office etc. So can an electric car/van/lorry last an entire day without charging if you use it as a company vehicle?

    It's almost as if they don't actually want people to get electric cars. What other great plans do they have? The gas pumps will shut off at random intervals to? That is if they have any gas that is, after all this is Britain ...

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:14PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:14PM (#1186670)

      People have been shouting about this for years, the power infrastructure and generation capacity to support electric vehicles isn't there. It makes more sense to repurpose the existing fuel infrastructure for hydrogen based fuels.

      https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-breakthrough-could-turn-hydrogen-into-the-fuel-of-future/ [israel21c.org]
      https://www.electriq.com/ [electriq.com]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:19PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:19PM (#1186672)

      It's almost as if they expect almost everyone with home and office chargers to be charging from 10PM-8AM, driving between 8-11AM, charging again between 11AM-4PM and back to driving again at 4-10PM, then charging between 10PM-8AM and almost all of those only driving a quarter of the capacity at any driving interval anyway.

      If you're using the thing as a company vehicle driving round all day, one might assume the five hour interval around lunch would be your natural charge-up window anyway, no?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:59PM (#1186683)

      Stop wasting electricity on heating, then there will be plenty for these vehicles.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 13, @05:01PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 13, @05:01PM (#1186699)

      So you are never really sure that you can use the car when you actually need it or want to use it. Brilliant!

      So, stay home or take the tube. Your local muggers need a constant supply of wealthy marks to keep them off the dole.

      --
      John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:29PM (#1186795)

      after all this is Britain

      Looks like they are having the same troubles with majority rule that we are... Oh well, life's a beach

  • (Score: 2, Offtopic) by Tork on Wednesday October 13, @03:10PM

    by Tork (3914) on Wednesday October 13, @03:10PM (#1186665)
    The launch was successful. All are back home safely.
    --
    Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bradley13 on Wednesday October 13, @03:11PM (4 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @03:11PM (#1186668) Homepage Journal

    I wonder how this interacts with solar. We're planning to buy an EV next year, and the charger will be one that charges using only the excess power from our solar cells. Granted, we're not in the UK, but I wonder: are they also going to turn *those* chargers off? That would be really irritating, if you were not allowed to use your own excess power to charge.

    And yes, I check TFA - no mention of solar power.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:18PM (#1186671)

      Who knows when dealing with half-wits in Government? Don't worry, you can always catch an electric bus instead. [bbc.co.uk]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:38PM (#1186801)

      Serious question: how many solar cells does it take to keep an ev charged? How much do you drive? What is the climate where you live? I could see this work if you don’t drive much and live in Arizona, but what about someone who drives a lot and lives in an area worth extended cold, cloudy climates?

    • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Wednesday October 13, @09:51PM (1 child)

      by zocalo (302) on Wednesday October 13, @09:51PM (#1186808)
      Assuming there's any substance to this, that's what I want to know as well. I currently have a PHEV and have no qualms about going pure electric at this point, but that's only going to fly if I can charge it on demand due to the regular occassions when I need to work unusual hours - a problem I guess is shared by nearly everyone who doesn't have a traditional "9-to-5" type work pattern. I also have land in suitable location to install solar and/or a decently sized domestic turbine to power the family charge point(s), so if anything I'm going to be pushing excess capacity onto the grid most of the time. The only thing holding me back on the installation(s) is to see what kind of schemes the government might bring in as part of COP26, something like subsidising an oversized installation specifically to ensure a healthy excess to feed back to the grid and sharing the RoI, for instance.

      This just makes it look less like leading the talks by example and more like Greta nailed it; "Green Economy. Blah, blah, blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah.”. Why am I not surprised? I guess I could look into getting some batteries and going off-grid completely, excess capacity for the greater good be damned, or perhaps Grant and Boris would prefer it if I just got another PHEV and cut back the scale of the generating capacity accordingly?
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @08:20PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @08:20PM (#1187096)

        renewable energy is 95% solved from a technical standpoint.
        i believe the problem is that we (as modern society) are addicted to fossile fuel.
        futhermore fossile fuels are raw materials and energy source. for the first case, fossile fuels will remain required (example: plastic for electrical insulation).
        the problem is secondary and tertiary economics from being reliant on fossile fuels for ENERGY!
        is mean, thinks like dividents, future dividends as collateral, options, future contracts, bonds and all the other "fictional inventions" that are tied to fossile fuel sourced energy.
        THIS gargantuan financial machinary is the reason for the slow energy transistion.
        untangling this cabudel of gears and pullies and levers is difficult 'cause it's what's running the modern-today age to the tune of 98 million barrels a day!
        the missing 5% is attributed to a new life-style we have to be willing to learn and get used to...
        ah, also, beware the "oil-driven-mentality" unleashed on the climate problem, that is, the climate problem is "solved" by burning more fossile, example: energy from coal burning is used to manufacture "green" solarpanels and the energy harvested from these is used to drive carbon-oxygen into the ground...
        as for the cars, buy half as big a e-car, spend the other half on a battery, go off grid and THINK how your investment is going to help the creation of more e-cars; not with MONEY but with ENERGY and MATERIALS. the e-car should not be used to further drive the "consumer" economy (reliant on fossile fuel)?
        money, it is said, is fiat and not backed by anything but maybe TODAY it is backed so that you can exchange it for gold, the BLACK liquid type?
        investing in renewables has to be the direct kind, not with money in your hands but thru delivery of YOUR energy (and maybe materials if you have 'em) to the people and factories making the real tangible things that enable renewable energy!
        and no we see, you and me have nothing, no own energy source and materials that we buy and discard. we can't really invest in renewable unless it is thru money that is based on the fossile fueled machination discribed above :(
        note: i have 1 kw of grid-tied solar. that's it. maybe some of it went into this post....

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by epitaxial on Wednesday October 13, @03:24PM (2 children)

    by epitaxial (3165) on Wednesday October 13, @03:24PM (#1186675)

    Is there an actual link to the announcement? I can't find any other source besides this low rent blog style site.

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:55PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @03:55PM (#1186682)

      What's wrong with the source? This story is right there next to the "Biden is going to outlaw hamburgers" story. :P

      • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @05:06PM (#1186702)

        All you have to do is ring the bell from an ice cream truck, and Biden will forget whatever he was doing.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday October 13, @04:30PM (5 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday October 13, @04:30PM (#1186691)

    it's not hard to imagine circumstances where this comes back to bite you in an emergency.

    As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be "smart" chargers connected to the internet

    Oh good; let's get the IoT involved, too. What could possibly go wrong!

    Here's hoping that if they actually roll this out, some plucky hacker cracks it the first day and just shuts off the entire network for 24 hours. We'll see if they think it's a good idea then.

    EV home and workplace chargers being switched off at peak times

    electric car chargers installed at home or at the workplace may not function for up to nine hours

    I'm smelling a lot of "maybe" coming off of this article.

    However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it's not clear how often they will be able to do that.

    So either everybody will ignore it, or the override hurdle will be high enough that it might as well not be there in the first place.

    In addition to the nine hours a day of downtime, authorities will be able to impose a "randomized delay" of 30 minutes on individual chargers in certain areas

    Let's just roll dice to see whether we get to charge on a given day! That should be fun!

    --

    Reminds me of one of those articles awhile back where consumers are basically being infantilized and trained to think of their computer as a "magic black box"--just plug in your car and cross your fingers! Maybe it'll be charged when you come back; maybe it won't! Just trust the opaque system you don't control! :D

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Wednesday October 13, @06:35PM

      by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @06:35PM (#1186726) Homepage Journal

      You have good points, except: the randomized delay is pretty essential. Imagine what would happen to the grid, if you turned on hundred of thousands of fast-chargers simultaneously. Power plants need a bit of time to ramp up to increased demand: doing this gradually over 30 minutes makes that possible.

      --
      Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 13, @06:49PM (3 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday October 13, @06:49PM (#1186730) Journal

      So either everybody will ignore it, or the override hurdle will be high enough that it might as well not be there in the first place.

      Or, the vast majority of people will leave the pre-sets alone and probably not even notice since the damn thing is plugged in all night anyway.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday October 13, @07:13PM (2 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday October 13, @07:13PM (#1186739)

        At least just throttle the charging rate instead of completely disallowing it. As-is this is begging for lawsuits when somebody has a dead battery and can't drive their child who's having a medical crisis to the hospital because they couldn't charge their car for the entire day ("day" as in sunset-to-sundown).

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday October 13, @07:18PM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday October 13, @07:18PM (#1186741)

          *sunrise-to-sundown, blarg

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by ewk on Thursday October 14, @11:54AM

          by ewk (5923) on Thursday October 14, @11:54AM (#1186943)

          That must be some mind disabling crisis then, if you cannot remember how to call a cab (or an ambulance...)

          Although I am not sure how viable these options are anyway in Ol' Albion given their current lack of (truck)drivers and the alleged state of the NHS...

          --
          I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @07:17PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @07:17PM (#1186740)

    Buy an electric car! Quiet, sexy, even convenient because you don't have to go to fuel stations or smog checks! Pays for itself in *coughmumble* years! Never mind range anxiety because grocery getters and commuters don't go that far anyway!

    ... but fuck you anyway because electric cars don't pay fuel taxes, and stress the electrical system, so if you really want an electric vehicle, prepare to first take your whole household off-grid with a massive battery bank and be prepared to charge your own damn vehicle your own damn self, and by the way we hate you so we'll keep charging you for the electrical hookup to your place that you aren't using.

    And fuck you. Right in your tight, puckered little cornhole. Fuck. You.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by richtopia on Wednesday October 13, @08:29PM (2 children)

    by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 13, @08:29PM (#1186762) Homepage Journal

    In Michigan you can get a discount on your AC by allowing DTE to disconnect the unit during high demand events.

    https://newlook.dteenergy.com/wps/wcm/connect/b837eccc-c328-438a-a21b-490801b018cd/CoolCurrentsFAQs.pdf?MOD=AJPERES [dteenergy.com]

    It disconnects for 15 minute intervals. Yea, the house warms up, but it isn't miserable. For an electric car, I would image the only time it becomes an issue is if you are completely depleting the battery before charging during a peak time event and you NEED ALL OF THE POWER. Maybe in that extreme situation you should drive to a L3 charger and pay some money.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @07:17AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @07:17AM (#1186908)

      For an electric car, I would image the only time it becomes an issue is if you are completely depleting the battery before charging during a peak time event and you NEED ALL OF THE POWER. Maybe in that extreme situation you should drive to a L3 charger and pay some money.

      I'm just going to leave this quote right here and see how long it takes you to see that might not work?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:47AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:47AM (#1186942)

        LOL. The other day I had a random thought and did a bit of research... If your gas-powered car runs out of fuel, the AAA will send someone with a gas can full of gas to pour into your tank. If your BEV runs out of chargs, they have to tow the car to a charging station. Quite a difference in convenience. Of course, I'm sure no BEV driver would ever miscalculate and run out of charge, even if the government does start playing games with when one can charge their car.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:21PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @09:21PM (#1186792)

    They make democrats look like libertarians. It's going to start another wave of migration to this side of the pond, and like last time, they're going to kill off the natives (that being us)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:22AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, @11:22AM (#1186937)

    What they're actually doing is saying the DEFAULT setting is to stagger charging times, nothing stops you changing it to charge whenever you want.

    Also that devices need to be smart, which means in future they can do things like charge up when there's plenty of wind power onto the grid, or when your solar panels signal that they're generating.

  • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday October 14, @12:47PM

    by Nuke (3162) on Thursday October 14, @12:47PM (#1186951)

    Sooner or later, this was inevitable, as is road taxation for EVs. Some things only have great advantages during the early adoption period. like the internet before the Eternal September.

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