from the it's-not-their-money-they're-spending dept.
Senate directs NASA to choose another company to build a lunar lander:
The United States Senate's largest committee wants NASA to choose a second company to build its new moon lander.
[...] After much legal back-and-forth following NASA's original decision, the Senate Appropriations Committee is directing NASA to now choose a second company to develop a crewed lunar lander, according to SpaceNews. However, this direction came with only a small funding increase.
NASA's original decision to grant this contract to build and develop a lunar lander, or Human Landing System (HLS), to only SpaceX was met with staunch protest from the other two companies in the running at the time: Blue Origin and Dynetics.
[...] But it seems that Blue Origin may get its wish after all.
The appropriators, in the report, state that NASA's HLS program is not underfunded, despite the agency's previous claims to the contrary. As shown in the report, the bill includes $24.83 billion for NASA, which is just slightly more than the $24.8 billion that NASA requested, and a $100 million increase in funding for HLS.
"NASA's rhetoric of blaming Congress and this Committee for the lack of resources needed to support two HLS teams rings hollow," the report states.
Three companies [at minimum] fighting over, and two companies being awarded contracts for the same sized pot of money should accelerate development. Somehow.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snotnose on Thursday October 21 2021, @08:58AM (17 children)
What a bunch of assholes. Who thinks a bunch of politicians who's main skills are fund raising and dishonesty can make a better decision that a bunch of engineers who live and breath space every day.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 21 2021, @09:05AM (15 children)
This may not be all bad. There is SpaceX's way, there is Blue Origin's way, and there is Dynetic's way. I'd be happy enough if all three put landers on the moon, even if it does cost a lot. Only one of them will be "best", one of them will be "worst", and one will fall between. Go ahead, build all three, then monitor the telemetry and the results closely. Going forward, you use what works, and improve on it.
I suspect that Elon Musk is going to put a lander on the moon, sooner or later, whether NASA pays him or not. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion. The only thing that will stop him, is if the Grim Reaper comes calling first. After the moon, he's going to put a lander on Mars, as well.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @10:18AM (2 children)
Last time I checked, SLS is thrown into the mix for pork reasons. They should be considered the second company.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @02:58PM (1 child)
n/t
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 21 2021, @03:06PM
That is the very reason SLS should be given additional funding in order to become the biggest, most bestest lander there ever was. It will only take about twenty years of development if things go well.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @12:49PM (3 children)
You an MS employee, per chance?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 21 2021, @01:08PM (1 child)
Actually, I was first exposed to the word 'telemetry' when watching rockets launching in the 1960s, and later. The idea of telemetry being used to monitor customers is relatively new.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday October 21 2021, @09:40PM
A lot of technology has been derived from the space program...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @02:41PM
I laughed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @01:21PM
Well, at the current funding level (assuming equal allocations between the companies), each company might succeed in bringing their lander 25% of the distance. We'll be lucky if any lander makes it to L1.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @01:58PM (1 child)
You mean McConnell sitting on the appropriations bill (for no other reason than he can)?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 21 2021, @03:11PM
Or Jeff Bezos lobbying to be the ONLY company awarded a contract to build HLS. Because.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @02:31PM (3 children)
Blue Moon is a single use, single mission lander. It can barely do the Artemis III demo mission and would require a complete redesign (for more $B and several years delay) to do anything else. It is a flags-and-footprints dead end. Jeff is asking for ~$6B for this waste of time. At $100M/y it would take 60 years to complete, which is essentially an unfunded mandate. If they cut SpaceX's funding to fit him in then it will take a minimum of 7 years to complete both landers. This is for a project that is supposed to be ready in three years. Nothing good can come of this, period, and unless Congress ponies up at least $2B per year in additional funding it can only end badly.
I love Dynetics' lander, but they are dead in the water without funding and they don't have the political clout to make it happen.
Elon is on record that he will only land on the moon if someone else foots the bill. At $3B there aren't many who can afford it. Without his Moonship a moon base simply isn't viable. I want a moon base, dammit.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday October 21 2021, @07:16PM (2 children)
Agreed. Blue Moon is basically a dead-end pork project for many of the usual space contractors. And that 30-foot ladder is asking for trouble - even the much shorter ladder on Apollo was apparently quite difficult to navigate.
And yeah, Starship is the only realistic way to build any sort of moonbase.
Dynetics has enormous long-term potential for scouting and low-capacity resupply missions, including suborbital hops to and from a moon base staging area. But they also still have a lot of design work to do before they can think about actually building it. As it stands I believe it's still too massive to actually make it down to the surface and back to orbit. So the Schedule N funding they received for further design work is probably suitable for now. On the bright side, it sounds like they've decided to make the thing fully reusable as part of that redesign, so it will be even more valuable if/when it gets its day on the moon.
Frankly, if Congress is forcing NASA to gut some other program to fund a second HLS provider, I really hope they choose Dynetics, even if everybody knows they probably won't actually have anything ready in time. Partially because at least they'll eventually get something worth the money, and partly because fuck Blue Origin's games.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22 2021, @05:03AM (1 child)
Alpaca is the exploration lander that NASA really wanted. I hope they succeed as well. The program that Congress wants gutted is Starship, as it is a direct threat to the SLS gravy train.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday October 22 2021, @02:39PM
I'd say it's actually several steps beyond what NASA thought they wanted - after all they only asked for a "shuttlecraft", and the Alpaca itself is intended to be v1 of a far more flexible and broadly useful "sky crane" platform.
Sadly for such corrupt Congress-vermin, the HLS is little more than an side project for the Starship program, and just using a standard interplanetary Starship that can return to Earth for maintenance would likely be far more cost effective, and still far more capable and versatile than any of the alternatives. Albeit with a potential risk of increasing the amount of debris in co-lunar orbit with every launch or landing on undeveloped ground. Though Musk has made some comments semi-recently suggesting he's not sure the specialized landing engines are actually necessary.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday October 21 2021, @03:46PM
I like this idea, however the brain trust in Congress only gave NASA so many beans to hand out.
Elon himself isn't all that interested in the Moon, unless someone pays him for it. His goal is to go directly to Mars.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 4, Touché) by DannyB on Thursday October 21 2021, @03:05PM
Quite a few people think that politicians, whose main skills are lying and fund raising, can give them better medical advice than a bunch of doctors and immunologists who live and breathe medicine and science every day.
Just sayin'
"It is appointed unto man once to diet."
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 4, Funny) by pkrasimirov on Thursday October 21 2021, @11:52AM (2 children)
The pork must flow!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 21 2021, @03:16PM (1 child)
Dune will be available on HBO Max tomorrow at 6 PM Eastern time. Or 5, 4 or 3 PM in more civilized time zones.
It is by the juice of caffeine the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Funny) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday October 21 2021, @04:46PM
A Co-worker I had back in 2000 gave me a small poster he had made for me due to my constant Dr.Pepper and coffee consumption.
It is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
It is by the juice of Kona that thoughts acquire speed
The teeth acquire stains
The stains become a warning
it is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Still have it on my wall :)
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday October 21 2021, @12:53PM (1 child)
Bigelow isn't getting a big government payday? Something must be wrong here. They need a big injection of $$$ to save them from going under.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @01:31PM
Bigelow is already dead. They just haven't been buried yet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @02:04PM (1 child)
"Your mission is to infiltrate Doctor Sinister's private island. Here are your bus tickets."
It's as if the FY2021 budget cuts and resulting down-select never happened.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 29 2021, @05:42AM
Sorry, this is a many decades problem not a one year problem. NASA has been failing longer than most of us have been alive.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday October 21 2021, @04:53PM (1 child)
Politicians are not qualified to decide which lander proposal is viable.
this is why the USA hasn't been back to Luna in over 40 years and why China will make it back to Luna before the USA even has a working prototype ready for launch.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @05:11PM
I hope so. If another Sputnik moment doesn't invigorate the USA's space program, nothing else will. Worst case, humanity expands in to space but the USA takes a back seat.
(Score: 2) by anotherblackhat on Thursday October 21 2021, @05:17PM (1 child)
NASA should set the requirements to whatever they want, including a maximum dollar amount, paid only after the objective is complete.
Then pick a company that has zero chance of actually completing the objective.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22 2021, @05:18AM
NASA did set the requirements for HLS based on what they thought they could actually get, and firm fixed price contracts pay out for completed objectives. The maximum dollar amount was set by Congress, who low-balled it to an absurd degree. Saying that Blue Origin has zero chance seems a bit harsh. Their lander is about the least ambitious design possible within SLS's performance constraints and their subcontractors have a reputation for actually delivering working product. Even Bob Smith's team should be able to manage a project like that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 21 2021, @06:35PM (1 child)
Elon Musk will send his congratulations from his home on Mars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22 2021, @05:20PM
With his last gasp as his radiation-ravaged body fails him.