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posted by janrinok on Thursday November 25, @07:08AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the CoCs dept.

https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/671

The entire moderation team resigns, effective immediately. This resignation is done in protest of the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves.

As a result of such structural unaccountability, we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to. To leave under these circumstances deeply pains us, and we apologize to all of those that we have let down. In recognition that we are out of options from the perspective of Rust Governance, we feel as though we have no course remaining to us but to step down and make this statement.

In so doing, we would offer a few suggestions to the community writ large:

  • We suggest that Rust Team Members come to a consensus on a process for oversight over the Core Team. Currently, they are answerable only to themselves, which is a property unique to them in contrast to all other Rust teams.

  • In the interest of not perpetuating unaccountability, we recommend that the replacement for the Mod Team be made by Rust Team Members not on the Core Team.
  • We suggest that the future Mod Team, with advice from Rust Team Members, proactively decide how best to handle and discover unhealthy conflict among Rust Team Members. We suggest that the Mod Team work with the Foundation in obtaining resources for professional mediation.

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(1) 2
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Snotnose on Thursday November 25, @07:30AM (6 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Thursday November 25, @07:30AM (#1199463)

    The SJW branch of Rust quit because the people who actually do useful stuff won't kowtow to their Code of Conduct?

    If this is true then, well, bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    --
    Forget the past, ya can't change it. Forget the future, ya can't predict it. Forget the present, I didn't get you one
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:29PM (#1199554)
      Brings up the question of who oversees the CoC police? If it's ultimately the fundrts, why not eliminate the CoC team as useless bureaucracy? And if the CoC team believes they aren't accountable to anyone, their resignations are a good thing.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by srobert on Thursday November 25, @03:39PM (1 child)

      by srobert (4803) on Thursday November 25, @03:39PM (#1199561)

      It might be right. But don't reach a hasty conclusion. I hate the term SJW because it ridicules, people who actually do care about social justice, alongside of the ones who just want to gain status by virtue signaling. The devil's in the details and the details are TLDR.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by dwilson on Thursday November 25, @04:16PM

        by dwilson (2599) on Thursday November 25, @04:16PM (#1199571)

        The devil's in the details and the details are TLDR.

        That pretty much sums up most of life in modern society, honestly. I like that, I'm going to remember it.

        --
        - D
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @06:53AM (1 child)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @06:53AM (#1199727) Homepage
      Apparently, the SJW part of the project was in the core team. These guys resigned because of the core SJW hypocricy.

      Very knee-jerk, very dog-whistle, much wow!
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Friday November 26, @02:26PM

        by wisnoskij (5149) <reversethis-{moc ... ksonsiwnohtanoj}> on Friday November 26, @02:26PM (#1199766)

        I don't see the point in arguing over who is being more leftist here. The entire concept of a moderation team for a development team is obscene and if you ever want to fix your toxic team the first step it removing said moderation team. That is the systemic issue causing you problems. Now they just need to remove the shitty developer(s).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @12:03PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @12:03PM (#1199951)

      Bye felicia. Maybe they can learn to code.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Subsentient on Thursday November 25, @07:32AM (50 children)

    by Subsentient (1111) on Thursday November 25, @07:32AM (#1199466) Homepage Journal

    Here's the fucking context [archive.org].

    I really don't savor being the one to post this because of the unavoidable shitshow that will result from this. I'm tired of the shit. Whatever, have your holy wars. I'll grab the popcorn.

    --
    Trying is the first step towards failure. -The Click
    • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Thursday November 25, @07:42AM

      by Subsentient (1111) on Thursday November 25, @07:42AM (#1199470) Homepage Journal

      I should mention that the core Rust dev in question also contributes to node.js, which while being a horrific crime in itself, explains why the drama bled over into the Rust community.

      --
      Trying is the first step towards failure. -The Click
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:47AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:47AM (#1199473)

      Guess I'm ignint. Is rust inextricably linked with node.js? What that whining about node.js got to do with this rust drama?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29, @01:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29, @01:32AM (#1200365)

        1. The node.js complaint was from 2017.

        2. The rust foundation was formed February 8, 2021.

        The foundation was formed after Mozilla laid off the rust and servo devs. So it was basically sink or swim time. Given that it doesn't look like anyone is using it for real projects (too much change between major releases over the last 11 years is a big complaint), it's really no surprise that the lack of stability in the foundation mimics the lack of stability on the development side.

        At this point, given the history, you'd be buts to commit to using it on anything but hobby projects. Or wasting time learning (and re-learning) it. The current kerflufle is just a symptom of an aimless project with poor leadership and a weak development team. Drama was always in the cards.

        Certainly don't bet your paycheque or your business on it.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by edinlinux on Thursday November 25, @08:14AM (24 children)

      by edinlinux (4637) on Thursday November 25, @08:14AM (#1199483)

      I had a look at the context link above...

      Exactly as I expected.. an SJW professional-victim shitshow..

      good riddance, they are not needed, and only added negative value

      now the developers can get back to focusing on writing good code again without all this nonsense..

      all the other opensource projects that are also infected with SJW 'minders' should also do the same and clean house.. everyone is sick of this..

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:21AM (10 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:21AM (#1199495)

        Yep. Like with work, leave your politics at the door. Unless it's physically dangerous or illegal, this stuff has no place in the workplace. Correspondingly, because "with computers" is not an excuse for the workplace (Rust project) to drag the workers' personal lives (on Twitter) into the workplace, and then get hopping mad about it.

        That's just looking for a way to be offended and pretend a moral high ground, when in fsct one is digging a moral pit.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @06:31PM (9 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @06:31PM (#1199601)

          It is precisely because assholes refuse to leave their politics at the door that minority groups have a need for advocates in the community.

          Women coders, for one example, just want to code, no politics involved. But without a CoC, men fucking PILE on them for no reason other than "it's a girl and she's in our space". It doesn't have to be even a fraction of the men, because most men remain silent when they see it happen. That's the politics of men, and it makes a difference, so shut the fuck up & let the adults in the room speak.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:36PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:36PM (#1199660)

            Women coders, for one example, just want to code, no politics involved. But without a CoC, men fucking PILE on them for no reason other than "it's a girl and she's in our space". It doesn't have to be even a fraction of the men, because most men remain silent when they see it happen. That's the politics of men, and it makes a difference, so shut the fuck up & let the adults in the room speak.

            I've yet to witness a man doing this. According to your theories I should be a target for that nonsense as a female programmer. Why doesn't it happen to me?

            Yet wombkins have done just what you describe to me. It's never men, it's always wombyns. Never trans men, never cis men, never trans women, just always the eternally victimized wymyons.

            You're completely full of shit and you know it.

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by pTamok on Friday November 26, @12:20PM (4 children)

              by pTamok (3042) on Friday November 26, @12:20PM (#1199764)

              Your experience is very different to many other women's experience, which leads me to ask the question: why?

              I am absolutely sure that women in general experience both kinds of the behaviours described, and I would not be surprised if the differences were due to a difference in both the male environment and the attitudes and behaviour of the women experiencing the behaviour.

              I've certainly met and worked with women who had no apparent problem working in a very male dominated environment. They were not 'one of the boys', but misogynistic behaviours just 'bounced off' them. I have no idea if they secretly went and wept in the toilets, but I suspect not. The main attribute I would say applied is that they were mentally tough, scarily so, sometimes.

              Telling people just to 'toughen up' doesn't go down well, but there certainly seems to be personality differences that contribute to the differences in lived experience, and it is a pity the necessary skills are not easily transferable. This is not to say that victims of misogynistic behaviour should 'simply' be tougher (i.e. victim blaming) - frankly men (in general) ought to be better behaved. Behaving equitably with and politely to people (no matter their gender) really should be undisputable.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:11PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:11PM (#1199795)

                Your first instinct is to blame the victim, even when she is a woman herself. It must get you plenty of sex. You just simply cannot believe that your cute and cuddly hunnies are real people who are capable of some nasty shit -or- it is against your patriarchal interests to admit that women can be nasty sexists too.

                why?

                These things happened in a female-dominated environment. Many feminists also believe I'm a dude because I don't have a menstrual cycle, making me a target in female dominated environments.

                One time a group of local feminists went so far as to put a block on my bank account preventing me from paying my pharmacy, because they believed that somehow my prescriptions were depriving women of healthcare.

                I could talk about the time I was molested by a woman. I could go on and on. Why the fuck would I know why?! Maybe you'll suggest that the way I was dressed I was just asking for it!

                • (Score: 1) by pTamok on Saturday November 27, @10:48AM

                  by pTamok (3042) on Saturday November 27, @10:48AM (#1199936)

                  I was trying to answer your question:

                  I've yet to witness a man doing this. According to your theories I should be a target for that nonsense as a female programmer. Why doesn't it happen to me?

                  As for women being capable of being badly behaved towards other women, and men, yes, my own experience accords with yours, they can be, and are. Group dynamics in social species are complicated. Memberships of in-groups and out-groups and dominance hierarchies can be very fluid. Being at the bottom of a dominance hierarchy or in a minority out-group can be very unpleasant. Women can be sociopathic too.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @01:29AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @01:29AM (#1200118)
                  How does a group of feminists "put a block on your bank account?" How did they even get your banking details? I'm not buying it. Especially since many women are intentionally skipping their periods.

                  Or any of the rest of it, for that matter.

                  I work in a very female-dominated environment. Very few men. most of the time bo men around, we're feminists out of both necessity and inclination, but we don't pull the shit you describe. We 100% support trans women as women, not as a threat. So we don't give a shit about a lack of a period for any reason.

                  That being said, there are plenty of teans women who are lazy shits, acting worse than drag queens. We had one, gave her the easiest job to do on her first day, and all we heard was complaints. "That's not a job for a woman." Even though all the women were doing much harder work, including heavy physical labour when required. Nobody likes a flamer or drama queen. So, she quit within hours.

                  People at work respect you for the work you do, not your appearance. You want to be treated as equal, act like you're equal. Produce like you're equal. Don't expect to be treated as someone "special" who deserves special handling.

                  And don't use being trans as an excuse for failure or unpopularity.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @07:52PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @07:52PM (#1200294)

                  Still calling bullshit on the whole "feminists put a block on my bank account " story.

                  Also, who the fuck (except a drama queen) gives a shit about what some TERFs think?

                  Seriously, how does someone who doesn't have your banking info put a block on your bank account? That would be handy to know. And a big security hole.

                  of course, anyone doing so would leave a trail, so why weren't they charged with, at the least, impersonation, for pretending to be you and claiming you needed a new bank card because the other one was stolen, so cancel it? Still needs your phone number and account details (account number, address, address of issuing bank). And you could just walk into your bank with ID and get a new card coded on the spot.

                  More likely , you just screwed up your account (bad password, too many attempts to log in, etc). Because again, why would a bunxh of TERFs have your banking info?

                  Or you did something stupid like lend your card to someone else?

                  Or you just looked suspicious when making a purchase, so the merchant reported their concerns and the bank put a hold on your account because you don't look like a woman?

                  So, trying to paint feminists as dipshits via a bs story about TERFs really makes me wonder what tour true motives are? And what do TERFs have to do with the article, which was about 3 people resigning from administrating a code of conduct from a little used language (heck, perl5 is far more widespread)?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29, @02:28AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29, @02:28AM (#1200375)

              Ok, that's your anecdotal experience. I'm a man and I've experience the complete opposite as I see it all the time - most often the perpetrators aren't even conscious of it.

              Also, its not just against woman, also against folks of color.

              Sure, there are folks on the other side that is also exploiting this but they aren't mutually exclusive - it DOES NOT negate the fact that the other happens.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:52PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:52PM (#1199811)

            "minority groups have a need for advocates in the community."

            shove your "minority groups" up your ass, bolshevik rats' bitch!

      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:42PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:42PM (#1199585)

        Cultural Marxists, Bolshevik Jews and their useful idiot race traitors.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:57PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:57PM (#1199594)

          Uh oh who let Tucker have a pooter? You know he traffics kids as sex slaves to Mara Lago right?

          • (Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:53PM (#1199646)

            No silly, that's Matt Gaetz.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:32AM (#1199684)

        good riddance

        Not applicable. Professional "kill all men" SJW Ashley Williams is still part of the Core team.

        developers can get back to focusing on writing good code

        Can you find any remotely meaningful contributions by Ashley? I don't think there are any.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @06:58AM (2 children)

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @06:58AM (#1199729) Homepage
        The context seems to show toxic hypocritical behaviour from a leftie member of the core team. Not from the team that resigned.

        So I think your interpretation looks like it's diametrically opposite to the truth, and therefore your ire is completely ill-placed.
        --
        I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:32PM (#1199801)

          There is nothing left-wing or progressive about misandry.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @04:41AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @04:41AM (#1200159)
          The moderation team was just 3 people. So not exactly a big loss. But here's the thing - why do you even need a moderation team? It's only 3 people, so it's not like they were doing much anyway. Seems better to let the developers thrash it out amongst themselves. Not happy? Vote with your feet. That's what people do all the time in the real world.

          OpenOffice/libreoffice and mysql/mariadb spring to mind.

          And if you want to go back in time, there's IBM/Ahmdel. And upteen number of linux distros.

          The annual budget is $300,000, so we're talking a VERY small team of paid developers - 2 or 3 (because there's also overhead). Jetbrains, paying $100k, seems pretty much in a position to call the shots. So who needs a moderation team? To keep the volunteer devs in line? Seriously? The criteria for code should be quality. If the contributor is a notorious white supremist or "all gays must die" freak, and is giving everyone a black eye and discouraging others from associating with the project, it should be easy enough to dump them because nobody is irreplaceable. Same as if you find someone plagiarizing code. Dump them and drop their contributions on the cutting-room floor.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Friday November 26, @07:50PM (5 children)

        by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @07:50PM (#1199822)

        There is nothing wrong with striving for social justice. Even to the point of being a warrior for it. That's actually a great thing, since there is a huge lack of justice in this world. It's not so black and white you know. You can't just group everybody into that one box, because there is a difference between virtue signalling, extreme leftist bullshit (that every reasonable person recoils at), and people fighting for justice for all. As much as certain aspects attributed to SJW may be undesirable, so is bullshit from right-wing fascists, toxic male assholes, .etc. The devil is in the details, bullshit is a spectrum, and most people are on the spectrum.

        I have a real simple idea for a code of conduct that should be applied to any large group of people working towards a common goal. One that completely removes the negative behavior of SJW, Right-wing, Toxic Male Bro Culture, etc. Whatever box and label you want to put a group of people in.

        1. If it doesn't have anything to directly do with the project, it's technology, it's applications, it's code bases, it's performance, then SHUT THE FUCK UP AND YOUR COMMENTS WILL BE STRUCK FROM THE RECORD.
        2. The only conduct that matters is conduct that happens within the project itself. Outside platforms, such as social media, or real life spaces like bars, coffee shops, DO NOT FUCKING MATTER.

        Examples of application:

        1. Person A said something on Twitter about Person B and Person C got some feels. Person C is complaining within the project. Result: Person C shut the fuck up! Next!
        2. Person A used ad hominem attacks on Group X in the project revision notes regarding the perceived performance of code proposal ABC123 from Group X. Result: Delete the comments of Person A and ask them to submit their objections using logic and reason, because nobody gives a fuck and/or is impressed with their childish bullshit. Either make constructive criticism, or nothing at all.

        In other words, keep it professional and don't be assholes. I honestly don't see why it's this hard, but there seems to be an awful lot of people that have the maturity of elementary school playgrounds. Why is it that the linked context sounds like fucking high school all over to me? I thought once you graduated you could escape that bullshit.

        Does NASA have these problems? Am I naive to expect technical people on a project to just act like adults? What the fuck is wrong with people? That goes for the "SJWs" as much as it goes for the "Bros", or any other groups.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday November 27, @02:57AM

          by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Saturday November 27, @02:57AM (#1199888)

          In other words, keep it professional and don't be assholes. I honestly don't see why it's this hard, but there seems to be an awful lot of people that have the maturity of elementary school playgrounds.

          Unfortunately, that seems to date back to Cro-magnon days, and probably before that. Just because humanity has invented a lot of shiny toys over the millennia doesn't mean they are now far removed from bashing each other over the head (literally or figuratively) over the slightest provocation.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday November 27, @08:44PM (3 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Saturday November 27, @08:44PM (#1200050)

          In other words, keep it professional and don't be assholes. ... Am I naive to expect technical people on a project to just act like adults?

          That sounds great, until you ask: Who gets to decide what counts as "professional" or "asshole"? Who gets to decide what "just act like adults" means?

          And that matters a lot. Some examples:
          - For basically the entirety of the 1950's and early 1960's, it was considered perfectly normal behavior for male bosses to make sexually suggestive comments directed at female subordinates. Depending on the industry, that was still quite common as recently as the 1980's or even 1990's. There are people walking around right now who think it's perfectly "professional" for a dude to say "nice rack" to a woman at work.
          - This has definitely happened more than a few times: Person A submits a patch. Person B says "Patch rejected, because it causes these bugs: ..." Person A starts saying "Whaaaa! Person B was super-mean and unprofessional asshole to me! Why can't they be nice and just accept my code?"
          - Somebody watches porn on shared computers. They don't leave a physical mess, but the admin catches them because there was stuff left on the hard drives. "Hey, we're all adults here, just be mature and delete it!" says the person who just got caught.

          When the wrong people are in charge of enforcing seemingly simple rules, you can bet that those seemingly simple rules will be twisted to allow for their own bad behavior.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday November 27, @09:29PM (2 children)

            by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 27, @09:29PM (#1200059)

            All of that is handled under my CoC. I guess professionalism and being an asshole can be vague, but I'm defining professionalism apparently as being near Vulcan-like in behavior.

            For basically the entirety of the 1950's and early 1960's, it was considered perfectly normal behavior for male bosses to make sexually suggestive comments directed at female subordinates. Depending on the industry, that was still quite common as recently as the 1980's or even 1990's. There are people walking around right now who think it's perfectly "professional" for a dude to say "nice rack" to a woman at work.

            Does the fact that a contributor to the project has attractive and/or impressively sized genitalia or secondary sex characteristics have anything to do with project itself? No. So those comments and behavior are censured. Leave such things outside of the project. Period. Nobody cares about your cocks, sweater puppies, or camel toes.

            This has definitely happened more than a few times: Person A submits a patch. Person B says "Patch rejected, because it causes these bugs: ..." Person A starts saying "Whaaaa! Person B was super-mean and unprofessional asshole to me! Why can't they be nice and just accept my code?"

            Evaluate separately.

            Did Person B use anything but constructive criticism, logic, and reason when rejecting the patch? If so, reject contribution. If not, accept contribution.

            Did Person A react illogically and emotionally to a rejected patch that was accompanied by constructive criticism, logic, reason, and examples of why it won't work? If so, then eliminate the noise from the project by erasing the comments and censuring Person A. If not, then let Person B be handled by the CoC.

            Somebody watches porn on shared computers. They don't leave a physical mess, but the admin catches them because there was stuff left on the hard drives. "Hey, we're all adults here, just be mature and delete it!" says the person who just got caught.

            Maturity Irrelevant. Project resources used for personal purposes while also increasing attack surface to outside threat vectors. Heavily censure person who got caught, and possibly remove from project. Remove files left on hard drive to secure air-gapped tablet for rigorous and thorough analysis.

            What else do you have? :)

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday November 27, @10:20PM (1 child)

              by Thexalon (636) on Saturday November 27, @10:20PM (#1200074)

              And that's all well and good when you, a responsible and fair-minded person, are the adjudicator.

              It doesn't work at all when the adjudicator actually agrees with any of those stances. Which happens sometimes - as in, I've seen it happen.

              --
              The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
              • (Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday November 27, @10:40PM

                by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 27, @10:40PM (#1200081)

                In other words, like I said, it's an elementary school playground. Just without any adults.

                Yeah, that's very sad. Especially when the people in charge that should be moderating the whole thing are part of the problem.

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 4, Flamebait) by Snotnose on Thursday November 25, @08:31AM

      by Snotnose (1623) on Thursday November 25, @08:31AM (#1199489)

      Here's the fucking context [archive.org].

      My god, that's something I'd expect to see on The Onion, not anywhere that's supposed to be taken seriously.

      --
      Forget the past, ya can't change it. Forget the future, ya can't predict it. Forget the present, I didn't get you one
    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday November 25, @09:33AM (2 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Thursday November 25, @09:33AM (#1199496) Homepage
      That context explains nothing. It shows that some SJWs have pissed off some normies on a different project by, shock horror, being toxic hypocrites.

      What, and by whom, is the "unaccountable" behaviour that's the actual context for this resignation?

      If this Ashley shrieker is in the core team of rust, then the mod team are probably in the right, and the core team are a problem.
      If she's not, and she's not in the mod team either, then what the fuck is it to do with anything?!?
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:20PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:20PM (#1199512)

        If this Ashley shrieker is in the core team of rust

        Seems to be. (Unverified) Quote: "Despite all of this, she was still hired onto the Rust Core team, because she is in a romantic relationship with Steve Klabnik (nepotism). Interestingly, Steve Klabnik is also the same person who is smearing Amazon because Amazon denied a job to Ashley."

        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28633113 [ycombinator.com]

        With such an organization, Rust is dead, FWIW

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by FatPhil on Thursday November 25, @10:19PM

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Thursday November 25, @10:19PM (#1199656) Homepage
          Thanks for the explanation. That does make the core team look tainted. I don't know how big it is, but a teaspoon of shit can spoil a whole barrel of cognac.

          So all the comments above about "now the coders, who we all respect, just want to code, which is what we respect them for, can get on with coding - respect!" are -1 Wrong?
          --
          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by esperto123 on Thursday November 25, @11:10AM (6 children)

      by esperto123 (4303) on Thursday November 25, @11:10AM (#1199499)

      That's interesting, thank you for the link.
      The summary didn't say much about what was the CoC violation and I assumed it was a similar situation to Stallman where the CoC team was just looking into pushing out some old fart that didn't follow 100% the party line (and that they though was a pedophile, or at least pedo-friendly, for basically say that people shouldn't jump to conclusions), but looking into the link you sent it is actually a woman being extremely misandrist and racist to white people. At least the CoC team seams consistent, if you gonna apply the rules it should be valid if you talk shit about A and B, not only to A or B.

      I particularly think that professional contributions should not mix with personal statements, if what she said was part of rust development discussions or part of the code/comments the CoC should be applied, but if those are on personal account, not linked directly to the project in anyway, it shouldn't affect. Assholes are part of life unfortunately, but unless they make it difficult to contribute to the project (i.e., being aggressive/disrespectful in code change reviews), and actually contribute to the project getting forward, they should be let to stay.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by srobert on Thursday November 25, @03:42PM (3 children)

        by srobert (4803) on Thursday November 25, @03:42PM (#1199563)

        "Assholes are part of life unfortunately..."

        That's why I think the only useful COC to attach to a project is a one-liner.

        COC: "Don't be an asshole." EOF

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:04PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:04PM (#1199609)

          Won't work. Who decides who's an asshole? That's right - other assholes.

        • (Score: 1) by charon on Friday November 26, @03:34AM

          by charon (5660) on Friday November 26, @03:34AM (#1199708)
          The web game Kingdom of Loathing has a ToS of exactly this. There is a staff member who makes decisions in case of disputes, but the devs suggest everyone think about this rule as follows: If you have ask yourself if what you're about to do would make you an asshole, it probably would, so don't do the thing. Unfortunately this requires reflection and self-criticism, capacities that many people do not possess.
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:28AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:28AM (#1199724)

        Basically a man hating whamen was asked to be held responsible for stuff men are being fired for left and right without right to due process. Nothing happened. Conservatives rejoice because social justice is being ridiculed. Democrats rejoice because whamen was put on a pedestal.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @08:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @08:09AM (#1199925)

          Truth hurts to moderators

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by darkfeline on Thursday November 25, @11:45AM (7 children)

      by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday November 25, @11:45AM (#1199501) Homepage

      So the moderation team quit because this complaint was ignored?

      Well, now I have mixed feelings about this. I don't agree with language policing, but the many quotes of that dev look bad even with a very gracious filter. If the dev writes good code, I would still merge such code, but I might request that they be muted from any official forums, assuming they act similarly in such forums. This isn't so much a CoC as a "don't be an asshole" policy.

      --
      Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:04PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:04PM (#1199505)
        Those forums aren't even their own. They want to kick her out because of some things she said on Twitter in a personal capacity, about an entirely different project.
        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:14PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:14PM (#1199523)

          So? SJW's have been purging people for years (eg: Brendan Eich) over beliefs unrelated to work and despite objections from cooler heads. Don't make your bed like that if you don't want to lie in it!

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:05PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:05PM (#1199547)

            Not just SJWs, assholes have been known to purge entire races from society even using them as slaves. Corporations have been known to accumulate and give free rein to psychopaths. Poor, poor assholes and psychopaths :(

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:46PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:46PM (#1199588)

              We don't owe anyone access to our societies, you dumb fucking bitch.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:53PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:53PM (#1199591)

                Oh no a Nazi Youth got triggered. Po widdle nazi boi.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:55PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:55PM (#1199648)

                Cluebat: it ain't *your* society. And quit "saving" it for us. Dipshit.

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:57PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:57PM (#1199812)

                  Whites built the whole modern world. If it's not our society why do non-whites follow whites around like stray dogs begging for crumbs? Stay home and build your precious Wakandas, you exalted NOCs (Niggers of Color).

    • (Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Thursday November 25, @03:34PM

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Thursday November 25, @03:34PM (#1199556)

      Their whole idea of moderation is out-of-the-line. Censuring people for bullshit they say on twitter should only apply to twitter.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:10PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:10PM (#1199578)

      That was from 2017 and is about nodejs.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @07:02AM

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @07:02AM (#1199730) Homepage
        How is "history" not "context"? Sure, its relevance could have been framed better, but eventually the pearls were dug out with a bit of probing.
        --
        I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:36AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:36AM (#1199467)

    Of course, the summary don't tell nothing of what the actual issue is.

    It's a manufactured drama, isn't it?

    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday November 25, @02:49PM (1 child)

      by HiThere (866) on Thursday November 25, @02:49PM (#1199541) Journal

      My problem is they don't say how many people. "Everyone on the team" sounds impresive, but that could be 2 people or 500. So I have no idea how seriously to take it.

      (OTOH, I don't like Rust, so I'm not going to look into the matter. And pointing to a site about another language doesn't make me think more highly of the argument, even if I don't like the participants.)

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:31PM (#1199555)

        3 out of 3, I think.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:09PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:09PM (#1199549)

      Shhhh everyone is enjoying a right wing rage out. ***TRIGGER WARNING*** SJW CoC Black Person SF AOC activist judges ***TRIGGER WARNING***

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:23PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @06:23PM (#1199807)

        Despite the pseudo-left rage out, abortion is still going away.

  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @07:41AM (65 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @07:41AM (#1199469) Homepage Journal

    Who is going to miss a bunch of SJWs who contribute nothing to development? Life will go on.

    --
    👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Subsentient on Thursday November 25, @07:43AM (60 children)

      by Subsentient (1111) on Thursday November 25, @07:43AM (#1199471) Homepage Journal

      Once you see the context, you're going to regret this comment.

      --
      Trying is the first step towards failure. -The Click
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @08:03AM (39 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @08:03AM (#1199479) Homepage Journal

        I clicked the link to context posted earlier. Most of the links on that page are deadends. The little I gathered is, Azuma Hazuki's sister is on the core team. Lil Sis makes a lot of mysandrist comments. So what? Is she contributing? Fine, let her contribute, and ignore her comments the way most of us ignore 'Zumi's hatred of men. If there's more and better context, I might want to look at it. Or not. I am adamantly opposed to CoCsuckers pretending they have some right, or some authority, to make people "accountable". That's what the law is for, and CoCsuckers are not cops, not lawyers, not anything. Aren't most of them named Karen?

        --
        👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday November 25, @10:01AM (24 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @10:01AM (#1199497) Journal

          And what is your justification for dragging AzumaHazuki into this discussion?

          Leave YOUR politics off this site please or, if you must, put them in your journal. Naming specific members of our community is certainly off-topic for this discussion.

          --
          It's always my fault...
          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @11:35AM (9 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @11:35AM (#1199500)

            Whatever motivated you to accept this fluff as a story?

            Both the pull request and the reddit discussion are completely devoid of context other than hearsay claims of 'misandry'.

            Was your motivation to poke fun at the 'woke' community or the Rust community - we already had one daft submission about how real men program in C this week.

            either way, our resident unreformed boomer couldn't resist.

            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:22PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:22PM (#1199513)

              We've discussed the CoC situation and toxicity of SJW's extensively on this site. Beyond ignoring them, a correct and appropriate response to this Ashley Williams person would simply be to mock them but that would in itself be a CoC violation. As one user on the reddit thread linked by Subsentient explained:

              Nothing is going to happen to Ashley. That's not the point. The point is this exposes CoCs for what they really are: a weapon for certain people to use against their enemies. It assists in ideological purges of undesirables but doesn't apply to those with the appropriate ideology. CoCs are a fraud, in other words.

              Pathetic as they are, I don't have a problem with any of the supposedly offensive tweets, occurring as they did on a personal account. My position has always been that people are entitled to their personal views and gender, sexuality and race are irrelevant to technical collaboration. I also, however, fully reserve the right to call people on their bullshit as any self-respecting adult should. That is, no self-respecting adult would ever submit to rules privileging the childish and mentally ill over themselves.

              If you don't see the relevance pertaining to a project like Rust, you don't know why myself (and others) avoid that language and it's community like the plague. But don't let that stop you invoking "boomer" slurs as ageist discrimination and further, flagrant demonstration of woke ("Rules for thee but not for me") hypocrisy!

              • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:11PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:11PM (#1199551)

                > That is, no self-respecting adult would ever submit to rules privileging the childish and mentally ill over themselves.

                BZZZZT oh so close, only 100% wrong. Brah.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:38PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @03:38PM (#1199560)

                  BZZZZT oh so close, only 100% wrong. Brah.

                  The world is not your safe space and I am not a child. Once you realize narcissism is an infantilizing personality disorder... [psychologytoday.com]

                  Being treated as a child doesn’t mean you have to be one forever once you recognize your own potential to be a grown-up.

                  To clarify, if you don't want to be treated like a child you also have to stop acting like one and take responsibility for yourself. You can be getting on with that, right after you clean your room bucko!

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:42PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:42PM (#1199642)

                    Ah yes, the irony of republicunts whining about safe spaces. Happy Holidays you whiny bitch ;^)

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:00PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:00PM (#1199649)

                      Damn libs shrunk the turkeys and made them more expensive. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I don't like them.

            • (Score: 5, Touché) by janrinok on Thursday November 25, @12:35PM (2 children)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @12:35PM (#1199515) Journal

              1. It was submitted by a member of our community, and it accurately portrays the state of affairs regarding CoC and their (ab)use. It is worthy of discussion, but I cannot be held responsible for every comment made any more that you can held responsible for the comments made in response to your contributions.

              2. I haven't poked fun at anybody. My only comment was directed at someone who wished to introduce their own political views against another member of our community. That was both unnessary and off topic.

              3. I can do nothing to change when I was born and I don't recall being consulted about it, but I haven't found a reason for me to 'reform' who I am. Perhaps I am contravening your own personal CoC? Tough!

              --
              It's always my fault...
              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Thursday November 25, @01:51PM

                by PiMuNu (3823) on Thursday November 25, @01:51PM (#1199530)

                I for one appreciate the submission. Always interesting to see what is going on in the coding bollitics.

                Having said that, I think comments on the (in)appropriate uses of spoons are probably the most appropriate response to half the threads.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @03:51PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @03:51PM (#1199779)

                I appreciate this submission.It is nice to read about crap like this before experiencing it.

                On another news site a story was linked about how a company was torn apart by SJW. It is things lime this and the insights learned by others that can be so valuable to know when it happens to you.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @01:01AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27, @01:01AM (#1199861)

              we already had one daft submission about how real men program in C this week.

              Huh? Do you mean C is the Greenest Programming Language [soylentnews.org] (links to Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages [uminho.pt])?

          • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:41PM (#1199517)

            I had a dream that SN is the core team and Janrinok left in a huff. You would not be missed.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:48PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:48PM (#1199528)
            CoC-sucker detected. Seriously, this is the problem with a Coc - it leads to policing via violations of the CoC instead of addressing behaviour that is ass-hat because it's ass-hat.

            Naming specific people on this site, ON THIS SITE, is on topic. It's not like he's naming them elsewhere (which is part of why the rust moderation team has their panties in a twist - who goves a shit about posts on twitter Upset about it - fight on twitter, where it's in context. Or put on your big boy pants and ignore it instead of dragging drama into development processes). Time for CoC to die. Again, when someone does stupid shit address it directly, not through CoC-language-policing.

            Back in the real world (you know, work) we don't have a written code of conduct except for how we expect our customers to behave (because some of them are assholes). It's understood we will treat them properly because we're adults, whether they act like it or not. Same as we don't have a code of conduct for how we treat each other. Because we're adults. And we have each other's backs.

            If you need a CoC to regulate conduct on a team, you don't have a team. And a CoC cannot fix that. And the CoC police will always be held in contempt by the people doing the real work, same as HR is a tool of management to control workers.

            There's nothing wrong with being an SJW or woke - but address problems by naming them, without invoking the legalistic bullshit of a CoC.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @03:34PM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @03:34PM (#1199558) Homepage Journal

            And what is your justification for dragging AzumaHazuki into this discussion?

            The manhater part, of course. I made that obvious in my post. Have I violated a CoC that we didn't know about?

            --
            👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
            • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @11:43PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @11:43PM (#1199666)

              Uh, how do you figure that user is a man hater?

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by acid andy on Friday November 26, @01:54AM

                by acid andy (1683) on Friday November 26, @01:54AM (#1199691) Homepage Journal

                She calls out toxic males. Runaway seems to think all males are meant to be toxic. Go figure.

                --
                Where did that thought come from? And that one? What about this one? Woah, man...
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @03:39PM (8 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @03:39PM (#1199562) Homepage Journal

            Also, the article and everything surrounding it is inherently political. Put up a political story, expect political comments, right?

            --
            👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
            • (Score: 2, Informative) by janrinok on Thursday November 25, @06:30PM (7 children)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @06:30PM (#1199600) Journal

              "It is inherently political"? - which party introduced it? Who supported it? Who passed it into law? Oh', that's right - neither side has. It isn't, in my view, the least bit political - unless you want to try blaming the 'other side' for it being a story at all. This has nothing to do with your government, your representatives or how you voted. So please leave your politics out of this.

              It is a story about software production - and in particular one specific language. It is related to CoCs and SJWs, but there is nothing there that means that you have to introduce national politics at all. SJWs don't belong to any particular party. Perhaps you understand now why the rest of the world is standing back and watching with a mixture of shock and amusement at the bizarre polarisation that we are witnessing in the US that is affecting everything you do.

              Put up a political story, expect political comments, right?

              If it falls within the political nexus then it is fair game - otherwise please discuss the topic itself.

              --
              It's always my fault...
              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @07:09PM (4 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @07:09PM (#1199610) Homepage Journal

                The concept of CoC is political. It is advanced by SJWs of various sorts, and approved of by activist groups that are affiliated with the cultural revolution. CoC is a perfect tool of lib/dem/progressive activists. You can't discuss CoC without introducing identity politics. I think you are terribly mistaken if you believe otherwise.

                If you're trying to say that it's not just American politics, well, of course you are right. It isn't specific to any nation, any party, any ethnicity, or whatever else we might imagine. It probably can't be seen as 'global' yet, but it pervades the western world.

                --
                👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
                • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday November 25, @07:40PM (3 children)

                  by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @07:40PM (#1199618) Journal

                  It isn't any specific group of people as you are suggesting. Revolution is only another word for change. A revolution in transport or medical care or scientific endeavour is not something to be held back out of fear. Those who fought for emancipation were ridiculed and punished before they were finally successful. Now you would call them SJW. It's funny how 'enlightened' we think we are today. Women do have a hard time entering professions that are predominantly male dominated. It isn't just a matter of skills or ability. But look at some of those that have been successful Grace Hopper, Katherine Johnson, Margaret Hamilton, Marie Curie. Women were not allowed to be doctors until long after men. Where there is sexual discrimination, or any kind of discrimination, there is a waste of human potential.

                  On the other hand, those who do their cause no good whatsoever, by abusing a CoC to get an unfair advantage or to unfairly victimise somebody should be called out for their acts.

                  I am not suggesting how you should decide who is right or wrong in the topic under discussion but one thing I am certain about - it is not politics unless you are trying to push your own political viewpoint. "You can't discuss CoC without introducing identity politics" and "CoC is a perfect tool of lib/dem/progressive activists" are, in my opinion, just how you want to view it and they are based on your own political views.

                  Our judgement should be based on merit and merit alone. As others have said here in this discussion, leave your politics outside of the workplace and, for that matter, out of discussions that do not warrant them.

                  --
                  It's always my fault...
                  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @08:09PM (2 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @08:09PM (#1199629) Homepage Journal

                    Sorry, but you're wrong. There has never been a CoC written that wasn't politically motivated. Identity politics is the underlying reason for everything related to a CoC.

                    --
                    👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
                    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:44PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:44PM (#1199643)

                      Hey runaway, still a whingey boomer? Cool stuff, go donate to some scammers or something.

                    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:08PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:08PM (#1199652)

                      Sorry bud - would reply but I gotta get started on the War against Christmas and pushing mind control vaccines. Us Dems are real crafty at hiding our political agenda.

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:20AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:20AM (#1199679)

                "It is inherently political"? - which party introduced it?

                You have a very myopic view of politics if you think that it must always involve either a "party" or a "law".

                that's right - neither side has [..] blaming the 'other side'

                ...and you are beyond redemption as long as you keep believing there's ever only two sides to a political issue.

                there is nothing there that means that you have to introduce national politics at all

                They didn't. You did, by insisting that politics is always inflicted by a (political) party.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @07:08AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @07:08AM (#1199733)

                This has nothing to do with your government, your representatives or how you voted

                FWIW back when NASA and its predecessors were accomplishing new stuff[1] the US Gov was fine with having literal Nazis working for them (SJW stuff be damned): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip [wikipedia.org]

                See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Nazi_Party_membership [wikipedia.org]

                [1] Rather than doing "re-runs" with newer tech and better graphics.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday November 25, @04:45PM (12 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday November 25, @04:45PM (#1199573) Journal

          Why do you think "Hazuki gives me a hard time" equates to "Hazuki hates all men?" What a whiny little brat! I don't hate men in general, and I don't even hate you. I do pity you though :)

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25, @07:10PM (11 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @07:10PM (#1199612) Homepage Journal

            I don't hate men in general, and I don't even hate you.

            ROFL

            --
            👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
            • (Score: 3, Funny) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26, @12:02AM (10 children)

              by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26, @12:02AM (#1199674)

              The Runaway is a prime example of the inferiority of men and the dangers of testosterone poisoning. The truth is that men must be trained like dogs. Men are rapists from cradle to grave. They are incapable of reproduction without women, and so they covet women and seek to own us mind, body, and soul. Abortion would be a sacrament if men got pregnant!

              1 out of 4 women are victims of male sexual predators. Men stalk women like slabs of meat. Men are responsible for creating rape culture and normalizing sexual violence against women. We just have to look at the violence in the world, much of which is man on man violence, to see how vile the rule of men is.

              Men squander the wealth of society on war and the industrial manufacture of death. The world would be peaceful and prosperous without men.

              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 26, @12:18AM (6 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @12:18AM (#1199678) Homepage Journal

                The world would be peaceful and prosperous without men.

                Well, of course. Without men, there would be no more sharp tongued women disturbing the peace.

                --
                👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
                • (Score: 1) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26, @03:06AM (5 children)

                  by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26, @03:06AM (#1199699)

                  It's a simple biological fact. Women are able to perform all aspects of capitalist and human reproduction without requiring a single man. Testosterone should be banned.

                  The male gender is completely deprecated by technology. Need to do some heavy lifting? You're better off with a lever than a man!

                  There are even Messrs. Smith & Wesson. It used to be that it was advantageous to own a man, so that he could club any other man that would threaten oneself. Why do you need a man, when a firearm is more reliable protection from men? A fundamentally flawed gender, men provide for their own downfall.

                  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 26, @04:00AM (4 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @04:00AM (#1199711) Homepage Journal

                    Uh-huh, right. Women don't' need men, until their technology breaks down. Since you're so smart, why didn't women start drowning their male children 1000 years ago?

                    --
                    👌 Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. - Kenosha Jury
                    • (Score: 1) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26, @04:21AM (2 children)

                      by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26, @04:21AM (#1199714)

                      That's a good question. They should have. The shieldmaidens should have seized political power from men. Boudica or Lagertha could have created a new dawn for womankind. Perhaps women have been deceived by heterosexuality.

                      It is time to stop making excuses for the brutal gender. With men such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Trump, enough is enough!

                      • (Score: 3, Informative) by looorg on Friday November 26, @04:41AM (1 child)

                        by looorg (578) on Friday November 26, @04:41AM (#1199717)

                        Bring on the glorious matriarchy where it will be all peace and unicorns for everyone. In reality nothing would change as females can be just as shit and brutal as males.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:19AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:19AM (#1200135)
                          A few points:

                          Your stat is underestimating sexual assaults by men. It's more like 50% of women are victims at some point in their lives, possibly more. And 10% of men.

                          Same as most men, and most women, are killed by men.

                          This doesn't mean 50% of men are shit. It could be more, it could be less, Stats on this are all over the place. A lot of it is dependent on society - a society that is patriarchal is by definition misogynistic, and the masculinity is toxic. Given that obly 1/3 of societies on the planet are democrcies, there's going be a lot of toxic masculinity floating around.

                          Read HOUSTON, HOUSTON, DO YOU READ … by Alice Sheldon to see a possible future.

                    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday November 28, @03:50PM

                      by hendrikboom (1125) on Sunday November 28, @03:50PM (#1200236) Homepage Journal

                      why didn't women start drowning their male children 1000 years ago?

                      Maybe some group did that, and left no descendants.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:24AM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:24AM (#1199681)

                You are a sad excuse for a human being. I hope you live long and bitter.

                • (Score: 3, Informative) by nostyle on Friday November 26, @06:57AM (1 child)

                  by nostyle (11497) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @06:57AM (#1199728) Journal

                  You are a sad excuse for a human being. I hope you live long and bitter.

                  Clearly you failed to fathom the subject line. GP post was warning in the subject line that the associated post would demonstrate misandry.

                  The poster has revealed nothing about his or her humanity nor displayed evidence of bitterness - rather only a clear understanding of what misandry looks like. In some sense it might be considered a well crafted troll, except that the facetiousness of it was clearly broadcast in the subject line.

                  GP poster may have failed to consider how many male snowflakes with reading comprehension issues would get triggered by the demonstration.

                  ...or maybe that was the fun part.

                  Either way, kudos to the GP poster on the demonstration of misandry. Nailed it.

                  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:26PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:26PM (#1199798)

                    Thanks!

                    I've been on the receiving end of plenty of sexual harassment from other women, and what I posted is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

                    Some men, like the Runaway, believe that any opposition to patriarchy is somehow misandry. That needs to be corrected for real misandry to be exposed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:42AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @12:42AM (#1199685)

          Is she contributing?

          Not really.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:12AM (17 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @09:12AM (#1199494)

        Frankly this is WHY we don't drag personal lives into engineering.

        I say let her stay. I think CoC in projects that are run by a special moderation team that doesn't contribute gives them an incentive to drag everyone through the mud
        Yes, she is an asshat. Do I care? Not really unless shes putting this in code or project stuff, but this is apparently things she said on her personal twitter about some other project (node.js), and the rust team wants to drag her into RustyCoC Court for that.

        If anything it's a node js issue..

        Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech, and we should take that as a guideline for our lives elsewhere. Namely that.. no matter how much I'm convinced im right, id be wrong to play judge, jury, and executioner on someone else's offensive opinions.

        I say all of this as the type of person she's apparently railing against, but unlike people who live to censor others, I can use my brain and know that she has opinions, we don't agree, and that's fine.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 25, @11:45AM (4 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @11:45AM (#1199502) Journal

          If anything it's a node js issue..

          Unless she's saying the same things on rust forums as well. It is common for people who are problems in one area or organization to be the same sort of problem elsewhere. I suppose if that really is going on, then we'll see some evidence for it.

          I say all of this as the type of person she's apparently railing against, but unlike people who live to censor others, I can use my brain and know that she has opinions, we don't agree, and that's fine.

          Sounds like the problem might be someone is making rules that they don't follow and don't have to follow.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:03PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @12:03PM (#1199504)
            Sounds like a lot of (incorrect) hypotheticals, when there's actual, quoted, linked citations of what she said and where. Try reading that first, then rejoin us.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:56PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @01:56PM (#1199531)
              It is spillover from node.js. EVERYTHING is a problem with node.js. It's too much to hope this kills it, but we can dream. If it takes rust down with it, that's acceptable collateral damage. Come on Santa, just one month to xmas!
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 25, @02:45PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25, @02:45PM (#1199539) Journal

              when there's actual, quoted, linked citations of what she said and where.

              For the node.js project as far as I can tell. Thus, it's always possible that she behaves properly for rust-related activities, say because someone there enforces the CoC or whatnot - one mask for Rust, a different one for node.js. When I looked at the Rust CoC [rust-lang.org], I didn't see anything about public statements made elsewhere. But then I didn't see anything about an exception for Rust Core developers either.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:27PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:27PM (#1200216)

              Khallow is a conservative, therefore "rules for thee not for me" applies to everything he says. Censorship of conservatives? BAD! Censorship of people he doesn't like? GOOD! I wish he was more complex.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @05:51PM (#1199590)

          "Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech"

          but the subversive Jews have made thinking wrong think while committing a crime an additional federal crime. Don't kid yourself that there is any protection. They will fill the supreme court with Shabbos Goy and Jews and they will gut free speech. unless we wake up and purge the parasite from what's left of our lands.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @07:16AM (4 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @07:16AM (#1199735) Homepage
          How does "Kill all men" not apply to the men who work on Rust?
          --
          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @09:38AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @09:38AM (#1199750)

            Would a judge consider that a credible threat of imminent violence?

            Then go arrest her. Otherwise, ignore her.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @04:45PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @04:45PM (#1199790)

              It is as bigoted a comment as "kill all women" or "kill all blacks", either of which would get you CoC'ed off the project. Why doesn't it get the same outraged response?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:36AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, @02:36AM (#1200137)
                You should not need a CoC to kick someone off for such shit. And that in a nutshell is the problem with a CoC - it's ineffective.

                Seriously, if you have that many issues, just fork off. Why fight? Unless of course you enjoy the drama, in which case don't be surprised if your coworkers soon become your ex-coworkers as they fork off. Either way, problem solved. Nobody HAS to work with people they don't like.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:28PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26, @05:28PM (#1199800)

              It's sexual harassment, dipshit.

        • (Score: 2, Disagree) by ilsa on Friday November 26, @11:21PM (5 children)

          by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @11:21PM (#1199849)

          >Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech, and we should take that as a guideline for our lives elsewhere. Namely that.. no matter how much I'm convinced im right, id be wrong to play judge, jury, and executioner on someone else's offensive opinions.

          I just want to point out that's only in America. All other countries (that I am aware of) do not protect hate speech. Personally, I think the US made a mistake on that one, as it's directly contributing to the significant racial issues affecting it to this day.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 27, @12:45AM (4 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 27, @12:45AM (#1199860) Journal

            I just want to point out that's only in America. All other countries (that I am aware of) do not protect hate speech. Personally, I think the US made a mistake on that one, as it's directly contributing to the significant racial issues affecting it to this day.

            I think there's two observations to make here. First, racial issues have gotten a lot better in the US despite that relative absence of hate speech law. Second, there's no linkage between the presence of hate speech law and improvement in those significant racial issues.

            So what is the benefit of hate speech law? My take is suppression of speech that those in power don't like.

            • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Sunday November 28, @06:32PM (3 children)

              by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 28, @06:32PM (#1200278)

              I think the burden of proof is on you for that statement "Second, there's no linkage between the presence of hate speech law and improvement in those significant racial issues."

              * The US has a prison population larger than all other western nations combined, and compared to population, is very disproportionally represented by non-white people
              * To this day, blacks are being randomly attacked, and/or murdered on a regular basis. The Rittenhouse case is just the most recent example. It's also a great example of how systemic racism is overwhelmingly prevalent.

              It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes. But in the US, racism is still very much openly encouraged, sometimes even _celebrated_, in many parts of the country. The situation is not even close to as bad anywhere else.

              The acceptance of hate speech emboldens racists. Trump's presidency has made that irrefutable.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 29, @04:20AM (2 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29, @04:20AM (#1200413) Journal

                The US has a prison population larger than all other western nations combined, and compared to population, is very disproportionally represented by non-white people

                So something with no conceivable connection to hate speech.

                To this day, blacks are being randomly attacked, and/or murdered on a regular basis. The Rittenhouse case is just the most recent example. It's also a great example of how systemic racism is overwhelmingly prevalent.

                We call that "gang-related violence". Again, attacked and murdered is not a hate speech thing. It's an assault and murder thing that's a crime already.

                It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes.

                In other words, a compelling argument not to make mere hate speech illegal. It's just a legal pretext to punish out-groups.

                • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Monday November 29, @02:35PM (1 child)

                  by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29, @02:35PM (#1200523)

                  ....seriously?

                  I keep forgetting that you're as bad as Runaway. You've intentionally misconstrued what I said, and your prison demographic facts are flat out wrong. I bet you think the US healthcare system is all fine and dandy too.

                  Sorry, I'm not playing Brandolini's law with you.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 29, @03:11PM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29, @03:11PM (#1200532) Journal

                    You've intentionally misconstrued what I said

                    How? I don't see that myself. Let's review once again. First, you talked about the prison population. As I noted, that's irrelevant to hate speech. I might add here, that hate speech law would actually make the problem worse by adding people to those jails. There is no misconstrual there. Then you talked about blacks being "randomly attacked and/or murdered". I merely noted that most of those attacks are gang-related, often by blacks. Further, there is no acknowledgement of degree or that assault and murder is not speech.

                    I suppose I can look up number of hate-related assaults and murders (though not the "randomness" of the crime) - keeping in mind that nobody was counting those decades ago. But what would be the point when you haven't specified any numbers in your post? I acknowledge there are attacks and murders based on ethnicity. Likely some of those are genuinely random too. But mere existence of such crimes is not a measure of whether things are better or not. Finally, you wrote:

                    It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes.

                    When some negative thing is not possible to eliminate, then by necessity, one has to decide how much of it to tolerate. My take is that the only reasonable place to draw the line legally is the doing of harm. Hate speech just doesn't do harm (no, I don't buy the arguments of ethnic slander and such) and hence, should be legal.

                    Further, I don't think you get how easy it is to abuse hate speech law. There's where the "legal pretext to punish out-groups" comes in. For example, hate speech often resorts to euphemisms, dog whistles, and similar, relatively subtle tricks of communication to conceal itself. I've seen "New York bankers" used as code for Jewish bankers, or references to certain cities (like Detroit and Saint Louis) to stereotype cities with large black populations. Or the recent flashing of the "OK" sign which is alleged sometimes to be a hate speech thing.

                    How would the law tell the difference between legal speech that just happens to mention the wrong code words and coy hate speech? Or a deliberate joke that parodies hate speech? My take is that it would depend on whether the authorities want to punish the party in question. Remember the process of the trial can be the punishment - there doesn't have to be a reasonable case.

                    That brings us to my key point. There's no value to hate speech law and a lot of downside to it. We even have cases [soylentnews.org] where it made the problems it was supposed to solve worse! It should be outright eliminated everywhere.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Tokolosh on Thursday November 25, @03:08PM (1 child)

        by Tokolosh (585) on Thursday November 25, @03:08PM (#1199548)

        Try not to be like the people you despise.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @10:10PM (#1199653)

          Bb..but we gotta teach them a lesson.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:45AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25, @07:45AM (#1199472)

      This implies that the non-SJW part of the ecosystem is confident they can contribute to the language, which is eminently good.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @07:19AM

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @07:19AM (#1199736) Homepage
        No. The toxic hypocritical feminist SJW remains in the core team. These guys resigned because of her.
        --
        I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Friday November 26, @07:04AM (1 child)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday November 26, @07:04AM (#1199731) Homepage
      Congratulations on being diametrically wrong about who the SJW actors are in this disagreement.
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Friday November 26, @11:26PM

        by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26, @11:26PM (#1199850)

        What gets me is just how _consistent_ he is. It's mindboggling.

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