Pandemic skyrockets in Europe; COVID is the No. 1 cause of death:
Health officials in Europe are pleading for people to adopt more health precautions as the region grapples with its most dramatic surge of COVID-19 cases yet in the pandemic.
Cases have been skyrocketing across the European region since the start of October, with cases rising from around 130,000 per day to the current all-time high of more than 330,000 per day. For the week ending November 21, the region of 53 countries—including the European Union, the United Kingdom, Russia, and several countries in Central Asia—reported 2,427,657 new cases, representing 67 percent of all COVID-19 cases reported globally.
The region also accounted for 57 percent of all COVID-19 deaths worldwide, with 29,465 deaths in the week ending on November 21, according to a weekly report by the World Health Organization. During the week, daily COVID-19 deaths increased to close to 4,200, doubling from 2,100 daily deaths seen at the end of September, the WHO noted.
The countries now seeing the highest numbers of new cases per day are Germany, the United Kingdom, Russia, France, and Turkey, according to data tracking by The New York Times. Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Romania, and Germany are reporting the highest daily numbers of deaths in the region.
At this point in the pandemic, the European region has recorded over 1.51 million deaths, and COVID-19 is the No. 1 cause of death. With the current surge, deaths are projected to reach more than 2.2 million by next spring, and officials expect "high and extreme stress" on health systems in dozens of countries.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:02AM (29 children)
We all (well, mostly the wealthy countries) got vaccinated, let's loosen up.
Bang, shit blows up again. Turns out immunity fades pretty quickly.
Ok, so let's boost up the immunity - third shots.
And now, there is a new variant with three dozen mutations, Omicron, and we don't know yet if the current vaccines will be effective against it.
Good thing about mRNA vaccines, it can be re-targeted relatively quickly, but not in reality because the production capacity already overloaded for existing orders. Even after the vaccines are re-targeted, ramping up the production will take months (at the fastest).
Stay tuned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:17AM (2 children)
That's nothing -- I've got a major crisis on my hands here, gmail is down, oh noes!(grin)
Seriously, I wasn't planning on heading to Europe anytime soon, but the Euros probably feel the same way about heading to the USA (Florida in particular)--so we're even(??)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Monday November 29 2021, @01:25PM (1 child)
Florida governor DeathSantis can't wait for the Europeans to return and spend money. It's the economy before the peoples health. He's probably going to run for President so a few more dead bodies on the enormous pile created on his watch are mere collateral damage.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:25PM
He doesn't give two farts about whether Europeans come and spend money or not. All he cares about is posturing. If the Fox News propaganda machine had decided to go with aggressive vaccination as their mantra, he'd be all over mandated vaccinations. He doesn't care what the cause nor the stance is, just that he's seen to be in front of the propaganda leading the idiots.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:32AM (2 children)
Eh, what's new? Official policy is still "let the bodies hit the floor."
I wonder how many more weeks I have of work-from-home. Friends have already been back in the office for months now, and I'm wondering how long until I have to. The team's changed a bit so I'm a little nervous about meeting new co-workers for the first time. Working from home, on the internet, nobody knows you're a talking anthropomorphic dog.
It'll be good to be back to normal, even if "denial" might be a better word.
Could be worse. At least this plague wasn't caused by rats dragging pizza over sewage dumped from 3rd story windows.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:34AM
Praise the COVID Gods! I am WFH and drawing salary with no intention of ever going back. The day they issue the order to return is the day I give 2 weeks notice.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday November 29 2021, @05:38PM
And . . . at least people don't dump out the contents of Chamber Pots [wikipedia.org] from 3rd story windows on to the sidewalk below.
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(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:55AM (16 children)
I think we would do better if the unvaccinated got vaccinated. While I am against mandates I have had my fair share of discussions with, sometimes almost arguing with, people that refuse to get vaccinated. It's unfortunate how stubborn they can be.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:27AM (9 children)
People who are vulnerable to the virus, would do better if vaccinated: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410 [ssrn.com]
For those who are at less risk from the virus than from a random falling brick however, it does not make any sense, given that the vaccinated are known to spread the virus perfectly well all the same.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Monday November 29 2021, @04:40AM (4 children)
Who are those BTW? When covid symptoms manifest it is not trivial even for the young.
Unless, of course, it is not so known.
(Score: 5, Informative) by dalek on Monday November 29 2021, @06:04AM (2 children)
There are studies showing that vaccinated people infected with Delta may have as much of the virus in their noses as people who are unvaccinated, suggesting that they may be as infectious. Within the first three months of being fully vaccinated, the chance of a vaccinated person infected with Delta spreading it to others is reduced to an extent. After three months since being fully vaccinated, once a person is infected with Delta, there seems to be little difference in spreading Delta versus an unvaccinated person. See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y [nature.com] for more information.
However, vaccines do make it less likely for people to be infected by Delta, even if that protection is diminished versus variants like Alpha. Also, boosters almost certainly reduce the risk of being infected by Delta to a large degree. Boosters may well also reduce the risk of people spreading Delta when breakthrough infections occur.
There's a bit of truth in what the AC is saying, but it's very misleading without the proper context. The diminishing protection over time against Delta probably can be addressed with boosters.
I know, one response is that we shouldn't be distributing boosters in wealthy countries until people in poorer countries get vaccinated. The problem is that it's a bit more complicated. Omicron may well have originated in Africa, where vaccinated rates are low. But it's a bit more complicated than simply blaming vaccine hoarding by wealthy countries. There are serious problems with vaccine hesitancy and distribution of vaccines in Africa. There's a lot of vaccine spoilage because of electrical issues and the lack of refrigeration and freezers. It doesn't excuse the vaccine hoarding and waste in wealthy nations, but the situation in Africa is also complicated. Here are some sources:
THIS ACCOUNT IS PERMANENTLY CLOSED
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday November 30 2021, @06:45AM
South Africa decided to reject Russian's easy to use Sputnik V over, believe it or not, "HIV concerns"
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/south-africa-rejects-sputnik-hiv/ [pharmaceutical-technology.com]
One gets what one deserves.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Username on Wednesday December 01 2021, @09:19AM
Another point, they skipped Xi, since that happens to be the name of the supreme leader of China. That's how were on Omicron. Politics over science. Just makes you think what other science they skipped over because it was politically inconvenient. Like investing millions of public funds into a drug that makes big pharma billions, and doesn't work too well. That lovely sunk cost fallacy. Eventually we'll get it right on the 12th dose, just like Doctor Who.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Oakenshield on Monday November 29 2021, @07:28PM
It depends.
My brother-in-law (in his 50s) only complained about not being able to smell anything. No fever. No cough. One of my friend's entire family tested positive. While on quarantine from work for two weeks, he (in his 50s) went out deer hunting. Zero symptoms. He would have never known he had caught it had his wife had not lost her sense of smell and the whole family was subsequently tested. My son (21 years old) caught it from his wife and said his only symptoms were a runny nose and a tickle in his throat. She had a fever and tight chest (she's asthmatic). On the other hand, one of my kids worked with a guy (39, double jabbed) that went from testing positive to dead in five days.
There is no apparent rhyme nor reason for the severity of illness. You never can tell how it will affect you until it's too late.
(Score: 5, Informative) by dalek on Monday November 29 2021, @05:36AM (3 children)
This is misleading. Yes, once infected, people who are vaccinated spread Delta as much as those who are unvaccinated. However, vaccinated people are less likely to be infected by Delta. Overall, that means unvaccinated people still pose a greater risk because they're more likely to be infected to begin with. If everyone is vaccinated, that should reduce the amount of people infected and capable of spreading the virus.
It makes sense to vaccinate vulnerable people first, which is why vaccine distribution in the US was prioritized in tiers. The most vulnerable people were given the highest priority, on the basis of risk of serious disease and the changes of being infected on the job. However, there is value in vaccinating everyone, to reduce the amount of available hosts for the virus and limit the possibility for mutations that lead to new variants.
THIS ACCOUNT IS PERMANENTLY CLOSED
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @08:38AM (1 child)
You say less likely, but there is scant data how less likely. Do I get to weigh the benefit of less likely infection versus the risk of complications from a booster shot every x months FOREVER as this vaccination fiasco seems to suggest?
You might say "Oh this won't be forever" but you cannot give an exact number, or even a ballpark figure. The government has also given out fake estimates, which were called out as fake by many people. But these people were dismissed, and everyday the people dismissed as conspiracy wingnuts are proven even more right. But the government won't ever admit to bullshitting in the first place as it bullshits more. Everyday the government lies and incompetence is show on full display, along with the media collusion trying to hide these extremely ineffectively, but somehow I'm supposed to buy their shit at face value.
I grew up in a place where the job of the government was to lie to people. I came to what I thought was a free country, where the government spoke the truth and was accountable tot he people. But man either I was dead wrong or things have really taken a turn here. Maybe it was all just a case of marketing hype, and nothing else. No one from my family trusts anything coming out of this stupid demented White House, and they are all fleeing for Florida as we speak.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @08:19PM
Yes, you do get to weigh the benefit versus the risk. But, the real question is whether you actually do understand the relative risks. From the way you have worded your little rant it would appear that you do not in fact have a good grasp of those relative risks.
This will be over when we reach herd immunity. That can either happen when enough people have gotten the disease or when enough people have been vaccinated. It really is collectively our choice how long this goes on.
I'm sorry to hear that. Really, I am.
Oh, there are some people who are speaking the truth. And then there are some real charlatans out there who are trying to exploit this for everything they can get from it. It is your job to figure out which is which.
Go get vaccinated!
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday November 30 2021, @06:59AM
This - raw - data shows that vaccinated are actually about twice more likely to be tested positive. Yes, I know that it does not mean blah blah blah but keep in mind that all the data you see is heavily adjusted.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032671/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_44.pdf [service.gov.uk]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday November 29 2021, @05:39PM (2 children)
You are asking them to change their political views. Or sometimes their religion.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @05:55PM
Someone killed Kenny! [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30 2021, @02:55AM
Or yours.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @05:50PM
My doctor told me and my wife we couldn't. I've had many people say "find a new doctor" which reminds me of doctor shopping until you get what you want. There are people with medical issues who's doctors say "No" and those people get treated horribly. Almost as if we should have to disclose our entire medical file to reinforce why we can't. Not saying you are like that but just wanted to justify another pointt of view
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @07:32PM (1 child)
You're a dumb fucking slave. Worry about your own umbrella corp zombie ass, motherfucker. Try not to get shot in the face.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @10:43PM
Oh, my! Somebody sounds a little annoyed here.
Well, it sure didn't take long for you to resort to threats of violence. I've noticed this rather a lot from anti-vaxxers lately. Seriously, what is up with that?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:00AM (3 children)
That's the problem. People in the less wealthy country without vaccination get infected, and there virus keeps mutating - mutating is what viruses (viri?) do.
The world is connected as never before. You think that virus variant won't come onto your shore? Do bears shit in the wood?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:13AM (1 child)
When said people without vaccination in said less wealthy countries demonstrably get less problems from the virus than you do, despite the virus mutating and you vaccinating, it does not make much sense to blame all your problems on the virus.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @12:58PM
I don't think "demonstrably" means what you think it means.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:28AM
They're furiously masturbating over the thought of a big beautiful wall like East Germany or China.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @07:26PM (1 child)
"And now, there is a new variant with three dozen mutations, Omicron, and we don't know yet if the current vaccines will be effective against it."
the "vaccine" caused the new variant, fucktard.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:21AM
Too bad there is no "-1 stupid" moderation option
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:24AM (6 children)
If only Europe would force all their Republicans to get vaccinated, this pandemic would have been beaten long ago!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:48AM (4 children)
Does trump mean tramp in europeon?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:58AM (3 children)
His family name was originally Drumpf...
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_(Last_Week_Tonight_with_John_Oliver) [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Monday November 29 2021, @04:55PM (1 child)
Still waiting for the day someone effectively explains how this was an own on any level.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @11:40PM
Agreed. I hate Trump, but the history of his last name is irrelevant. If my great grandfather's name translated in Polish as "Little Dick Smith", it wouldn't make me any more or any less of an asshole.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday November 29 2021, @05:46PM
<no-sarcasm>
Drumpf senior came to America and built his fortune the old fashioned way. Just as God intended. He built brothels in the West during the silver rush. He recognized it would be better branding to change the family name to "Trump".
</no-sarcasm>
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(Score: 3, Touché) by Opportunist on Monday November 29 2021, @08:58AM
Just because we don't have a Republican party doesn't mean we don't have idiots. They just flock to other parties, that's all.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:43AM (6 children)
https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se [who.int]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:52AM (5 children)
Are the currently good numbers in Sweden due (in part?) to the two bad peaks they have had earlier this year?
This page, https://worldhealthorg.shinyapps.io/covid/ [shinyapps.io] Go to "Country/Area/Territory" and select Sweden from the drop down.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:03AM (1 child)
Possibly, but what does it matter when most of Europe have already overtaken them on cumulative deaths per 100,000, and the remaining few are well on the way to do the same before next summer?
If by going crazy you end up killing more of your populace than by keeping calm and meddling less, what excuse is there for more crazy?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @09:24AM
Compare Sweden to other Scandinavian countries and Finland where the custom and population density is similar, instead of "most of Europe" that are more densely populated and are not as anti-social.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:32AM (2 children)
Yes. As far as I can gather from the news here that is the current assumption or theory. That it was pretty bad previously so this new wave or whatever it should be referred to as hasn't been as bad (yet). If one wants to be quite brutal about it then a lot of the weak or vulnerable people already died. But they are sort of starting to be scared again that it will soon pick up speed again, considering that it's starting to really tick up again in countries that are close to us. So they are pushing fairly hard here now for everyone to get their third injection.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:07PM (1 child)
Weak or vulnerable people die anyway (to be quite brutal about). The numbers (from indisputable WHO itself) clearly show that less than 1% of positive cases died. And positive cases is much less than poplulation of Sweden (10.35 million according to google). So it's more accurate to say the less than 0.1% of the population of Sweden has died from covid-19. For the whole duration of the pandemic since it started. Which brings the yearly death rate down even further. Assuming Sweden's numbers are correct, this is pretty small beans for a pandemic scare. For example, in 2019 (before covid), the number of deaths due to diseases in the circulatory system was 28,195 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/528942/sweden-number-of-deaths-by-cause-of-death/) Nearly twice as many people in Sweden died of circulatory issues in 2019 alone, than all the people who died of covid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @08:34PM
https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/weekly-operational-update-on-covid-19---23-november-2021 [who.int]
This shows 2% death rate... which holds more or less across most nations.
For Sweden only you say, because they are magic? Or maybe compare apples to apples instead of fruits. Like remember the time when Germany had a low death rate too? Yeah, that didn't last. The rest depends on luck, like genes. All Norway has 1000 deaths and 260k cases. Finland 1300 deaths on 180k cases. So the question is why is Sweden so high when they have very similar populations genetically, population densities and demographics. Maybe it's because what they did. So yes, meanwhile in Sweden, a lot of people died that didn't have to while at same time their economy suffered anyway since most avoided their regular life.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday November 29 2021, @02:48AM (4 children)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ [statista.com]
The UK looks well-vaccinated in that chart, but a little more Googling reports 46 million fully vaccinated (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations) out of a population of 67 million. That's plenty of potential high-quality vectors remaining.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:52AM
https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/03/worldwide-data-proves-highest-covid-19-death-rates-are-in-most-vaccinated-countries/ [dailyexpose.uk]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:17AM (2 children)
Nobody is advising people to get the AZ shot as a second dose if they got an mRNA vaccine as the first dose.
Everything Boris Johnson touches turns to shit.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:47AM
Yep. Astra is shit. Boris could not even steal Russian's Sputnik V correctly.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @11:31AM
Which elicits better T-cell immunity [medrxiv.org] than mRNA vaccines and T-cells are targetted for longer term protection. [theguardian.com]
Politicized misinformation over AZ has cost lives. [capx.co] Yet every chance you get, there you are in the comments spreading your bullshit!
(Score: 0, Informative) by sonamchauhan on Monday November 29 2021, @02:50AM (26 children)
This procedure 'Hypertonic Nasal Irrigation & Gargling' -- enhanced saltwater gargles -- is a really good thing to do at home to fight COVID.
Here's the research paper:
https://jogh.org/documents/issue202001/jogh-10-010332.pdf [jogh.org]
Here's how to do the procedure (see videos):
http://www.elvisstudy.com/nasal-irrigation-and-gargling.html [elvisstudy.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @02:54AM (22 children)
Please report back every month and tell us how this is working for you.
Also tell us if you have had a vax, or not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @03:10AM (1 child)
We call that Waterboarding.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Monday November 29 2021, @03:48AM
Hahah -- give it a try, it's easier than it looks.
My dad is afraid of this, so he puts the saline in his nose using a teaspoon. Something is better than nothing.
A fact about waterboarding [salon.com]: "Interrogators pumped detainees full of so much water that the CIA turned to a special saline solution to minimize the risk of death"
(Score: 3, Informative) by sonamchauhan on Monday November 29 2021, @03:42AM (19 children)
No, I won't report back every month. :-)
But I've been doing this procedure on and off most of the pandemic (especially when I feel congestion or a cold coming on). It's been working well - clear breating, and no COVID infection that I know of.
I am unvaxxed, pending medical advice for an autoimmune condition (there are multiple reports of mRNA vaccines such as Pfizer causing flareups and organ damage for my condition). My doctor is awaiting advice from the state health regulator for my case. I am not anti-vax, but want to be vaxxed safely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:59AM (11 children)
Any thoughts about Novavax (if it ever becomes available)?
(Score: 3, Informative) by sonamchauhan on Monday November 29 2021, @08:50AM (10 children)
Yes, I've heard Novavax is apparently the best of the vaccine bunch. It is basically a bundle of prepackaged antigens -- these directly do the work of stimulating the immune system, then stop.
Compare to mRNA vaccines that, instead of containing antigens, contain instructions to the body to manufacture its own antigens to stimulate itself.
I'm reminded of this classic quote by Ken Thomson The moral is obvious. You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself. [cmu.edu].
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday November 29 2021, @09:26AM (9 children)
Thanks. I posted the question AC because I was on a different computer and don't remember my pw.
I was wondering if Novavax would be less problematic for people like you who have some kind of autoimmune problem? I'm thinking mostly of the nanoparticle aspect, and if it's more, or less, likely to trigger autoimmune overreaction?
(Score: 3, Informative) by choose another one on Monday November 29 2021, @04:12PM (5 children)
> I was wondering if Novavax would be less problematic for people like you who have some kind of autoimmune problem?
I have an autoimmune condition and know many people who have the same and other autoimmune conditions, I have had 3x Pfizer, the medical advice was unanimous - get vaccinated. I don't know anyone who has been advised to risk covid and stay unvaccinated because of an autoimmune condition.
There are definitely concerns about _efficacy_ with autoimmune conditions, particularly for those on immunosuppressants, but that is a reason to have more boosters rather than no vaccine at all.
Not saying the poster further up doesn't have some condition that is a contraindication for vaccination, just that I have done plenty of online research on it and not seen any such condition. There _are_ some conditions or condition/age combinations where one vaccine is not recommended, but then the recommendation is to use a different vaccine, not no vaccine, that goes for previous reactions to one vaccine as well. I have seen quite a few people misinterpreting the existing data along the lines of "the original trials didn't include people with my condition / on my meds" or "they haven't done a trial specifically with people..." as meaning the vaccines aren't approved or safe for them. They didn't do specific trials or get specific data for blond patients, or trans lesbian cross-dressing patients, or patients with one leg or no arms - that doesn't mean it's _unsafe_ for those patients. Over 3 _billion_ have been vaccinated so far, if there was any particular disease (even a pretty rare one) causing a pattern of vaccine reactions it would have come up in the medical press by now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @07:37PM (1 child)
" the medical advice was unanimous - get vaccinated."
of course, doctors are shameless whores and you are a pitiful slave.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @10:47PM
Here. Have some ivermectin. Some dude on the intertubes told me it works like a charm!
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday November 30 2021, @02:53AM (2 children)
Fair enough - but there is so much research on so many conditions. Here are some papers on COVID-19 vaccine-associated glomerular disease (CVAGD). I only found this information because it is a risk to me:
1. COVID-19 vaccination followed by activation of glomerular diseases: does association equal causation?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437826/ [nih.gov]
2. De Novo and Relapsing Glomerular Diseases After COVID-19 Vaccination: What Do We Know So Far?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8230841/ [nih.gov]
3. COVID-19 Vaccination and Glomerulonephritis
https://www.kireports.org/article/S2468-0249(21)01448-0/fulltext#%20 [kireports.org]
There is a definite pattern.
Whether to take a vaccine or not; which vaccine to take ; what followup regimen -- that depends on relative risk of infection versus vaccine complication. The calculation is vaccine-, individual- and locality-specific.
Again - I am not an anti-vaxxer. I just want to be vaxxed safely. Firm numbers are hard to come by but ballpark estimates from literature seem to indicate between 1 per 100 to 1 per 1000 cases of COVID vaccination causing kidney damage to patients with existing glomerular disease. (For instance, paper #3 below reports a series of 13 such patients at one institution alone: Mayo clinic). In comparison, the risk of hospitalisation from COVID where I live is 1 per 10,000 and falling. Hence the risk/reward indicator for me seems to favor avoiding COVID vaccination with mRNA vaccines at least. As the first paper states:
"Although nearly all approved vaccine platforms have been implicated, cases have been far more common after the mRNA-based vaccines, Pfizer–BioNTech BNT162b2 and Moderna mRNA1273 (Table 1). Of course, this may simply reflect more widespread use of these mRNA vaccines."
I've punted it to the proper authorities - lets see what advice they come back with.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:08PM (1 child)
There is, which is why I caveated what I said, that said I can still find no reference indicating that CVAGD is a contraindication for vaccination.
Kidney conditions are of interest to me too, not least because due to suspicion of such I've spent some time and plenty of tests under the care of nephrologists - in my case nothing confirmed so far...
Kidney conditions are also a big big covid risk factor though - is your quoted hospitalization risk for kidney disease patients or for general population? - because there is probably a big difference.
Also is your hospitalization risk for vaccinated or unvaccinated? - hospitalization rates are falling around the world precisely because people are getting vaccinated, but that doesn't change your risk if you are not vaccinated (you should use the old pre-vaccination risk rates, possibly adding a bit because delta is harsher).
I spent months on the shielding list with my hospital bag packed, because if I got it hospitalization was almost certain for me (and after that, 20% chance of not getting out alive). Now that I am vaccinated my risk is substantially lower (modulo omicron uncertainty), but it wouldn't be if I wasn't vaccinated (and case rates are far higher in my area now, so my chances of catching it are actually increased).
I am no stranger to (suspected) vaccine reactions myself, and I actually know someone (relative of my wife) who was hospitalized with a very bad reaction to the one of the covid vacs, but I got mine because the risk from covid is so high, partly because of my pre-existing conditions.
Your call, but I'll leave you with a quote from that is actually from your very first reference (although I first saw it from one of the authors, Nicholas Li, on twitter, I think, but it's word for word in other articles too):
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Monday December 06 2021, @12:45AM
Thank you!
True - I saw your caveat :-)
The quoted hospitalisation rate is for the general population/ vaxxed and unvaxxed. Yes, kidney issues are a big risk factor for Covid, as are heart issues. I'm in a strange sort of zone where I've had mild versions of each.
"Nothing confirmed" is such a typical kidney finding. :-( My docs need a kidney biopsy for confirmation, but where I live you gotta "earn" a biopsy with kidney function loss (the procedure carries its own risk). I'm fortunate enough to have not "earned" it yet.
Yes, but other people getting vaxxed does lower my risk because vax coverage is extremely high where I live (80% of pop.) and case rates very low.
Yes, the author's position is accurate in the context of a US pandemic. In my context, CVAGD should promote proactive vaccine "thoughtfulness" - avoiding nephron damage now will be important for my old age (if I have one :-). The authors also advocate increased monitoring. I'd like to know what to monitor, or if there are tests for this. Am meeting with my doc today.
My recommendations: test for allergies, consider activated charcoal, and try a mono diet. I have an egg allergy and I've observed BP flares when I eat something with egg products by accident (e.g., Snickers bar). At that point, a tablespoon or two of activated charcoal down the hatch (just well mixed in water, and consumed well away from other medication) does the trick. Also, a periodic mono diet of Chinese congee, pressure-cooked chicken stock, plenty of grated raw turmeric and ginger seems to help me by stabilizing my gut. There's some complex interaction between a permeable gut, food-origin allergens circulating in the bloodstream which should not be there, 'circulating immune complexes' formed when your immune system attacking these foreign invaders, and kidney damage caused by the 'circulating immune complexes' getting trapped by kidney nephrons. Starting with what you eat is a good idea.
(Score: 3, Informative) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:19AM (2 children)
Thanks - you make a good point. The 'protein subunit' tech it uses is said to be safer than the newer lipid nanoparticles tech used to encapsulate mRNA in Pfizer (which apparently accumulate in the ovaries , but not the testes, according to a Japanese distribution study).
There is much we do not know. I guess we'll know more once Novavax has been rolled out more widely.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:36PM (1 child)
Just for the record, vaccine tech using lipid particles / phospholipids scares me as I one of my autoimmunes is to that (anti-phospholipid syndrome), it may even have been triggered originally by vaccination (look up ASIA syndrome).
Moreover there are documented cases of reactions: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772613421000020 [sciencedirect.com]
BUT - covid scares me more. I've seen it (from safe distance) and seen what it does to healthy people in my age range, I can extrapolate to what it would do to me, I definitely do not want to confirm by experience.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:46PM
Wow. Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know such conditions existed.
My condition is quite mild, thankfully. It began as a BP rise, 2-3 years after a Hepatitis-B vaccination in the late 90s (Energix). I googled just now out of curiosity and found a paper making an association: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11840090/. [nih.gov] More useful was a lawsuit: http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/MILLMAN.Stewart.pdf [uscourts.gov] (the applicant lost), which listed several other cases.
Yes, vaccines save many lives but they damage, even end, other lives. It's frustrating governments mostly turn mealy-mouthed when it comes to accurately portraying the actual measured risk of vaccines. Ultimately, public health is well and good, but medicine must be fully forthcoming so that treatment can be tailored to be successful for each individual.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Opportunist on Monday November 29 2021, @09:04AM (5 children)
And I have here a tiger repellant stone.
Hint: Whether something works as a defense against something is something you will only find out when you need it.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Monday December 06 2021, @12:53AM (4 children)
Is your tiger repellent stone in clinical trials?
"Hypertonic Saline Nasal Irrigation & Gargling" is.
"HSNIG site:clinicaltrials.gov" [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Monday December 06 2021, @10:10AM (3 children)
If I could market it to some dupes, I could pay for some clinical trials easily.
Wake me when the trials come back showing that that stuff does what you claim.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday December 07 2021, @08:03AM (2 children)
I don't think I can wake you :-) But if it helps, this stuff is being used in the wild already (and has been for hundreds of years)
https://jogh.org/documents/issue202001/jogh-10-010332.pdf [soylentnews.org]
https://www.rhinologyonline.org/Rhinology_online_issues/manuscript_231.pdf [rhinologyonline.org]
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday December 07 2021, @02:10PM (1 child)
If we didn't have something better by now, I could actually see your point.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Saturday December 11 2021, @03:44AM
Use vaccines _and_ gargles.
Why fight with one hand tied behind your back?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @01:01PM
There's J&J too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:30AM (2 children)
+1 spam....
We've had a handful of +5 trolls written by people with more skill than me.
Have we ever seen a +5 spam?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:48AM (1 child)
I'm still gambling to get a +5 post with at least +1 of everything in the right order.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @05:10AM
Where do you place that bet? And how do you propose to claim it, AC?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @06:19AM (2 children)
Sorry, I could not keep up. Was khallow suggesting we ditch the market solution in favor of a Hunger Games type solution to the Covid-19 pandemic? Or was he offering to take the place of my aged father, who fought the Nazis, after surviving the Depression as a child, and went on to raise great children, like myself, but not me only? Is khallow an only child? Or does he have no parents, at all?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Mykl on Monday November 29 2021, @07:01AM (1 child)
Here Troll, have some lovely delicious attention [nom nom nom]
Khallow has made exactly only comment in this thread, which pointed out (as did several others who were modded insightful) that the AC claiming that vaccinated infected people pass on COVID just as much as unvaccinated infected people was being highly misleading at best.
In other words, his post made sense. More than yours did. Enjoy your identity posting, where the user matters more than the content.
Run along and play now Ari [see what I did there?]
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @07:21AM
AC identity posting, . . . I see what you did there, sort of. And you think I am Ari? I am just as much khallow, and making as much sense as khallow, which is to say, none. Nand your contribution is also nuggatory. So go away, Ari!!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Opportunist on Monday November 29 2021, @08:51AM (16 children)
The dying will continue until average intelligence increases sufficiently.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RedGreen on Monday November 29 2021, @12:32PM (15 children)
"The dying will continue until average intelligence increases sufficiently."
Indeed and every time I hear of one of these unvaccinated fools dying I think there is another moron that has eliminated themselves from the herd, a good thing. A little harsh but my patience has run out with those fucking clowns and the garbage they spread along with the disease. The world is definitely better off without them. Possibly sad for the families involved but for the most part it seems to run in the family and friends in group clusters just like the spread of the infection itself.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 29 2021, @01:46PM (9 children)
This is the correct attitude for the vaccinated to have about the unvaccinated. If all the vaccinated follow suit, and proclaim "On their own heads be it," then they can stop browbeating the unvaccinated, trying to enforce lockdowns and masks and vaccines, and let life on Earth return to normal. Darwinian forces can go about their work and winnow out the people who have the wrong world view, because censoring them, imprisoning them in camps, and depriving them of their livelihoods has not killed them off fast enough.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @01:58PM
GP poster only says that because he loves humanity. Actual humans, not so much.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:50PM (2 children)
The problem with your approach is that there is going to be a hell of a lot of collateral damage along the way. There are some people who, for whatever reason, can't get vaccinated. (No, not want to, can't.) Then there are those who have been vaccinated and not showing any antibodies. It's time for these whiny little prissies to roll up their sleeves and take a shot in the arm. It's good for them. It's good for everyone else too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @07:41PM (1 child)
it's the vaxxed that are going to die, dumb ass.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @10:49PM
The doctors and nurses at my local (university) hospital disagree with you.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Monday November 29 2021, @05:59PM (4 children)
Unfortunately we can't simply let the drunkards drive while wasted. Sure, they take themselves out with a high success rate, but sadly they tend to take some innocent bystanders with them.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 30 2021, @02:11PM (3 children)
That's not an apt metaphor. If you are vaccinated, then you are 100% safe against dying from the coronavirus; you have nothing to fear from an unvaccinated person. That is, if you believe what they tell you about the vaccine. If you do not believe the vaccine protects you from the coronavirus, then it doesn't make sense for you to insist unvaccinated people get it.
You can't have it both ways.
Believe in the vaccine and let the unvaccinated suffer the consequences of their own decisions, and let the world go back to normal. Disbelieve the vaccine, decide it doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or not, and let the world go back to normal.
But vaccine boosters want to have it more than both ways by not letting the world go back to normal, either. It bursts all boundaries of logic.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:13PM (1 child)
Rubbish. What they are telling those who listed is that the vaccines are 90-95% effective against hospitalization, for six months, maybe, then you need booster. Oh, and against delta it's less, and omicron, probably less less.
Meanwhile case rates where I am, because people still insist on spreading it, are >20x what they were when I was first vaccinated.
Question is, can you do the math on the risk?
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday November 30 2021, @03:28PM
s/listed/listen
*sigh*
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:18AM
Could you guys please decide what bullshit story you're trying to peddle? It seems that depending on what's more opportune to you, either the vaccine is useless or a panacea.
It's neither.
Any vaccine has a limited effectiveness. To force another car analogy, you don't drive into walls despite having an airbag, not only because it ruins your car but because even with an airbag, there is no 100% guarantee that you'll survive that. It increases your chances, it gives you a better chance of survival even if you get harmed, but it's no guarantee.
Neither is a vaccine. Vaccines have an effectiveness of 50% to 99%, depending on the vaccine and circumstances. Yes, there are actually vaccines that "only" have a chance of protecting you 50% of the times you're exposed, these are usually for diseases that are so crippling that even a 50% chance is better than none. With the various Covid vaccines, the effectiveness is still up for debate, because as you may understand we don't have a couple years of experience with them yet, but what it looks like the effectiveness seems to be between 75 and 95%.
This would actually be enough to stop the disease if, and only if, enough people cooperate. Because if I have a 75% chance to not get infected, and so do you, our combined chance of breaking the infection chance already comes close to halving the chance of infection. Add a couple more people and the spreading stops.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by https on Monday November 29 2021, @04:41PM (3 children)
Problem is, for every death there's ~15-20 longcovid cases, a significant fraction of which have their IQs dropped, like ten points dropped. It's really going to bring down the population average.
I'm gonna make out like a bandit if that doesn't happen to me too.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Monday November 29 2021, @05:28PM
I really thought it WAS what plants craved..
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0, Troll) by RedGreen on Monday November 29 2021, @06:15PM
"Problem is, for every death there's ~15-20 longcovid cases, a significant fraction of which have their IQs dropped, like ten points dropped. It's really going to bring down the population average."
Like they are the brightest bunch to start with. They will not take a proven medication but will take some horse worm pills that so fucking clown on the internet tells them to..
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30 2021, @02:41PM
Maybe this is why Rs don't want to treat this seriously, they figure if the national average IQ drops 7 points, then they will win more elections!
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:22AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ [reddit.com]
It's quite entertaining. Then again, I'm an antisocial asshole.
(Score: 0, Troll) by quietus on Monday November 29 2021, @12:00PM (5 children)
First you lump the European Union (i.e. what people generally recognize as 'Europe') together with the nearly non-existent medical care systems in Russia, Turkey and Central Asia -- the only Stan missing in their list is Afghanistan, fer chrissakes -- then you posit Covid is skyrocketing. Luckily you got to miffle away that the number of deaths per day has doubled from 1200 to 2400 over a period of 2 months, while shutting up about the percentual false positive rate on a total population of more than a billion people.
We need a term beyond disingenuous for that kind of "reporting".
The only aim of this kind of reporting, next to clickbait fodder -- is to stimulate more testing (we're now testing 30% of the population every month in Belgium, and that rate is increasing). If you haven't bought stock in pharma, you're already too late.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @01:07PM (2 children)
I agree, it's just like Dear Leader said: The only reason the death rate appears to be increasing is that we're doing a lot more testing.
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Monday November 29 2021, @03:25PM (1 child)
Unfortunatly that is not true.
There are a lot more people dying than usual. So unless the tests themselves cause the deaths (In which case you can just keep blaming Bill Gates) something bad is happening.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 29 2021, @04:19PM
Yeah, sorry, that was a sarcastic comment. In the beginning of all of this Trump used to blame the rising number of infections on the fact that more tests were being done (you're seeing rising numbers not because it is spreading, but that you are just finding more cases because you're testing more; you can decide how stupid that argument is for yourself, but that is the only leg they were trying to stand on that was available to them at the time). He then tried that argument on the rising death rate too, but that was too stupid even for the Fox News crowd to parrot.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by dalek on Monday November 29 2021, @02:48PM (1 child)
Are you trying to say that the surge in cases in much of Europe is due to false positives?
Here's the case data for Germany: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/germany-covid-cases.html [nytimes.com]. Are you saying that the cases increasing more than a factor of five since early October is due to false positives? That's ridiculous.
Here's the data for France: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/france-covid-cases.html [nytimes.com]. They are also seeing a rapid increase in cases in the past few weeks. Are you saying those are false positives?
Here's the data for Spain: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/spain-covid-cases.html [nytimes.com]. They're not in as bad of shape yet as some other EU countries, but cases are also rising there. And here's the data for Italy: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/italy-covid-cases.html [nytimes.com]. They're also seeing a definite upward trend in cases. Are you blaming these on false positives?
And then there's Austria: https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/austria/ [reuters.com]. They may have peaked, depending on what happens with Omicron, but saw a massive surge in cases. Do you also blame these on false positives?
All five of the countries I mentioned are EU members. Saying the data are biased because of cases in Russia and countries in Asia just isn't true. Blaming this on an increase in testing and false positives also doesn't make sense, particularly given the huge surge in cases seen in some EU countries.
Deaths also lag behind cases because it takes time after people get sick with COVID to die from it. Just because deaths haven't increased that much just yet is not reason to say the surge isn't real. COVID treatments have improved, meaning that more people who become seriously ill now will recover than previously. But a huge surge in cases can still overwhelm the health care system in Europe, even if there aren't as many people dying.
If anything, we should be hoping that Omicron really does cause less severe disease. If not, and that also spreads rapidly in Europe, it would make matters even worse. But we can hope that Omicron isn't nearly as deadly as previous variants.
What's the point of COVID denial? What are you hoping to accomplish by posting misinformation?
THIS ACCOUNT IS PERMANENTLY CLOSED
(Score: 2) by quietus on Monday November 29 2021, @05:57PM
You're too quick to draw conclusions. I'm not blaming false positives here (though there must be more, as there's simply more testing).
We're in the middle of flu (and cold) season here; and a lot -- read 120,000 people a day, in a pop of 11M -- of people are letting themselves be tested, just to be sure. This results in a lot more people testing positive -- with mild symptoms -- than previously. This is as it should be: the vaccine doesn't protect you from infection, it only protects you from severe symptoms.
What I'm ranting about is over-the-top reporting and the frickin' suggestion by the media that the vaccines aren't working. (They don't say that ofcourse, they're Too Holy for that, but dog-whistle-dog-whistle).
Last week there were a little over 600 people with covid on intensive care here. The media were breathlessly reporting about it nearly every hour, making it sound like we were close to a zombie outbreak or something: pestering every government official they could find with questions about How it could have come this far, and What are you going to do about it, Right Now because What a Disaster (infinite number of declaration signs).
Where I live, 97 percent of the adult population is vaccinated. I found myself now obligated to tell ordinary people that that still leaves 300,000+ people who are not vaccinated, of which currently 600 are on intensive care -- yet all this logic will not hold for long if this media offensive continues much longer: and the next vaccination round, a lot less people will get vaccinated.